Laptop's 8650U stuck at 400 Mhz, Hardware Failure?

[Amo]

Hello,

Ever since I obtained a laptop(HP Elitebook 850 G5 Intel Core i7 8650U) through my workplace, the CPU clock speed hasn't gone above 400 MHz. I've tried troubleshooting the issue and have done the following:

• Updated drivers and set all power profiles to performance mode with minimum CPU set to 100%.
• Updated the BIOS to the latest version and even rolled back to a previous version.
• Realizing there might be a deeper problem, I used Throttlestop to investigate further:

http://imgur.com/HkZTr7J

As you can see, while the temperatures stay below 40 degrees Celsius, the PC is constantly throttling due to "BD PROCHOT" and "EDP OTHER" states. Enabling Turbo mode and disabling Prochot in Throttlestop does increase the clock speed to 1100-1200 MHz, but this is obviously not a long-term solution, even though it does not seem to affect the temps at all.

• I've also cleaned the laptop's hardware and replaced the thermal paste.
• The built-in system diagnostics in the BIOS passed all tests, including memory, processor, battery, and SSD.
• To further diagnose, I installed Linux (Ubuntu) and used throttled (https://github.com/throttled/throttled) this also resulted in the exact same thing, a processor stuck at 400 MHZ.

None of these steps addressed the problem. At this point, a hardware issue seems likely. However, considering all the system diagnostics passed, I'm unsure of the cause. Are there any other troubleshooting steps I can take before concluding it's a hardware failure, or can I consider this product broken.

Thanks a lot,

Amo

 

[Frick]

Tried a different power supply? I don't know about HP, but Dell had some models that were really picky about them.

 

[Amo]

I've

Tried a different power supply? I don't know about HP, but Dell had some models that were really picky about them.

I have the original charger, that passes all the component tests described here :

https://support.hp.com/hr-en/document/ish_2854458-2733239-16

I assume this indicates it's working properly?

 

[Assimilator]

Probably there is another sensor that has gone bad.

 

[Amo]

Probably there is another sensor that has gone bad.

Yea also my assumption, is there anything outside sending it to HP that i can still do?

 

[_JP_]

Hello, Amo. Welcome to the forum!
A few questions:

• Are you using a 45W or 65W charger?
• Does the battery pass every check or is at least over 25% health? (considering it's a G5, it should be okay, but it has its age)
• At the UEFI
  • In System Options is
    • Turbo Boost set to Enabled?
    • Max DC Performance/Enable Turbo Boost on DC set to Enabled?
    • Intel Dynamic Tuning set to Enabled?
    • HP Application Driver set to Enabled?
    • Energy Efficient Turbo set to Enabled?
  • In Built-in devices is
    • Fan always on while on AC Power set to Enabled?
    • Boost Converter set to Enabled?
  • In Power Management is
    • Runtime Power Management set to Enabled?
    • Extended Idle Power States set to Enabled?

In Windows, you can let the minimum proc state to drop 0%, but set additional parameters like I have, for instances (i5-8365u 640 G5):

Depending on load, it does go to the 41x boost bin fairly regularly, but unless PROCHOT is triggered, it is usually between 35x ~38x. Only if it gets to the >90ºC realm will it remain at 22x ~26x until it cools-down, or if every single core (plus HT) is loaded, while the AC adapter is plugged. On battery, I just have it moving constantly between 2x and 28x, because I do want some battery time on this bugger still.
G8s and G9s also work pretty much the same way with these settings. I haven't tested the G10s. Nor AMDs, yet.
Believe it or not, HPs since using the 8th gen do allow for some pretty good performance management, but you do need to enable most, if not all, power/performance management features at the UEFI level and then making sure you have all the drivers up to date and a 65W brick. 45W does cut the processor from staying at the highest turbo bins for the most part.
850 and 650 variants have the added bonus of a slightly bigger heatsink, fan duct and air box, as they are larger than the 640/840 (or even 830).

 

[Amo]

Thanks a lot for the detailed reply _JP_, sorry for the delayed response, took a bit to gather it all. Anyway to answer your queries:

• Are you using a 45W or 65W charger?

The charger is 45W:

http://imgur.com/o70HS3G

• Does the battery pass every check or is at least over 25% health? (considering it's a G5, it should be okay, but it has its age)

Yes it passes every check in the component test, and the health is on 87%:

http://imgur.com/fsbPgmH

• At the UEFI
  • In System Options is
    • Turbo Boost set to Enabled?
    • Max DC Performance/Enable Turbo Boost on DC set to Enabled?
    • Intel Dynamic Tuning set to Enabled?
    • HP Application Driver set to Enabled?
    • Energy Efficient Turbo set to Enabled?

System settings:

http://imgur.com/QBwz4tw

• In Built-in devices is
  • Fan always on while on AC Power set to Enabled?
  • Boost Converter set to Enabled?

Built-in Device settings:

http://imgur.com/s6IghXg

• In Power Management is
  • Runtime Power Management set to Enabled?
  • Extended Idle Power States set to Enabled?

Power Management Settings:

http://imgur.com/zRTAsjR

In Windows, you can let the minimum proc state to drop 0%, but set additional parameters like I have, for instances (i5-8365u 640 G5):

I do not have a lot of the parameters you have, these are my current power settings:

https://i.imgur.com/Y6N6zsK.gif

Regarding ordinary behavior of HP elitebooks; there are a lot of posts on here that have the same issue, but all have an unsatisfying conclusion where the thread just dies, I used most proposed solutions from this thread, but to no avail:

Elitebook 840 G5 throttling due to max tdp being extremely low

Hey y'all, long time lurker, first time poster. I have an Elitebook 840 G5 with the i5 8250U, and it has been extremely slow. I have used Throttlestop to squeeze some extra power, and I got it to go above the 0.4 GHz limit. It usually hovers @ 0.8-1.2 GHz, and doesn't go past that. I have tried...

www.techpowerup.com

Thanks again for thinking with me _JP_, really do appreciate the help.

 

[Calenhad]

It is not uncommon that some sensor go bad and permanently triggers BD PROCHOT in older laptops. I have an older Asus laptop that is stuck like this as well. You can disable it in Throttlestop at your own risk. As a 5 minute test I would do that.
But it is not easy to diagnose if this is caused by a bugged sensor or an actual problem. So disabling it permanently (load Throttlestop on boot with it disabled) is a risk factor.

 

[Amo]

It is not uncommon that some sensor go bad and permanently triggers BD PROCHOT in older laptops. I have an older Asus laptop that is stuck like this as well. You can disable it in Throttlestop at your own risk. As a 5 minute test I would do that.
But it is not easy to diagnose if this is caused by a bugged sensor or an actual problem. So disabling it permanently (load Throttlestop on boot with it disabled) is a risk factor.

It's completely stable for hours with BD PROCHOT disabled, even when benchmarking, but the clock speed doesn't exceed 1.1GHZ, so it's hardly usable.

I assumed the actual throttling was caused by EDP OTHER?(Which is permanently red as well)

 

[_JP_]

Checks seem fine.
UEFI too! I would just enable 'Power Control' in the 'Power Management' menu to have the EC use the battery as needed to leverage 'Boost Controller' option you already enabled.
A 45W adapter will limit your performance while charging the battery, I can attest that, but it should not keep you at 400MHz after it charged, more like 800Mhz to 2.2GHz.
If you managed to get a 65W one, it would charge and run at the higher performance thresholds as well.
Btw, EDP OTHER, if I'm not mistaken it would be the power limiter triggering.
Here's what I got for mine during a ~30mins Teams call, running 3 screens and a bunch of software in background:

It is cutting due to temperatures and power limiter for a few seconds. There is a tool somewhere in the internet to control the fan, but HPs don't have the most conservative fan curve actually, it just does not run at max unless it is completely overheating (Unlike Lenovo ThinkPads, for example).

Regarding the Windows settings, those options become visible with edits in the Registry (Or through a bunch of tools freely available in the internet, but YMMV.). Essentially, at your own risk and do read about it before, open RegEdit and the keys are at:
HKLM\System\CurrentControlSet\Control\Power\PowerSettings\

Where almost every sub-key corresponds to a power setting applicable to your system and you'll want to change the 'Attributes' value to '0' in order to be able to edit the option it in the 'Power Options'.
You can tell them apart by reading the value in the 'Description' and 'Friendly Name', which almost always match the actual description in the 'Power Options' window.

 

[Amo]

Installed HWINFO, and got the values you described during a benchmark, a gif from the dynamic values (This is WITH BD PROCHOT disabled):

http://imgur.com/hxk9ctm

Static values (BD PROCHOT Disabled):

http://imgur.com/wp8lmW1

Static values (BD PROCHOT Enabled):

http://imgur.com/iycpo39

It is cutting due to temperatures and power limiter for a few seconds. There is a tool somewhere in the internet to control the fan, but HPs don't have the most conservative fan curve actually, it just does not run at max unless it is completely overheating (Unlike Lenovo ThinkPads, for example).

I tried using this software https://github.com/Rem0o/FanControl.Releases which works perfect on my main PC and instantly populates it with all my fans, yet on the HP it doesn't show any fans, not even the CPU.

I'll try doing the registry edits now, but this more and more starting to look like a broken sensor huh ?

 

[Darmok N Jalad]

Just a long shot, but have you tried disconnecting the battery entirely and booting from the power brick? Just thinking that maybe if there’s a voltage issue with the battery, it’s causing the system to run in ultra safe mode settings. It may not let you boot at all, but it might be worth a try if you’re about ready to throw in the towel.

 

[Amo]

Just a long shot, but have you tried disconnecting the battery entirely and booting from the power brick? Just thinking that maybe if there’s a voltage issue with the battery, it’s causing the system to run in ultra safe mode settings. It may not let you boot at all, but it might be worth a try if you’re about ready to throw in the towel.

Heh, I already got to that point before, and did just that. This forum post is really my last resort before I scrap the laptop and just buy a random 400 euro one, just a shame for such a good laptop.

But for my own curiosity, ran the benchmark again with the battery removed(With BD PROCHOT disabled):

http://imgur.com/gy1CmD4

Clockspeed seems slightly higher which is curious, but still the same EDP OTHER throttle.

 

[Darmok N Jalad]

Heh, I already got to that point before, and did just that. This forum post is really my last resort before I scrap the laptop and just buy a random 400 euro one, just a shame for such a good laptop.

But for my own curiosity, ran the benchmark again with the battery removed(With BD PROCHOT disabled):

http://imgur.com/gy1CmD4

Clockspeed seems slightly higher which is curious, but still the same EDP OTHER throttle.

Well, even with the battery disconnected, it might be an issue since the charger might be a bit underpowered, and/or, it leans on the battery for power spikes. Still, it’s probably not worth it to try a new battery since there’s not enough evidence to suspect that it will fix it. I know we’ve seen it before where a laptop will stop charging when under heavy load because the power brick can’t supply enough power to do both. Sometimes you even see a negative effect where the battery still gets used on AC power and could even drop under load. These modern laptops are far more dependent on a good battery it seems.

 

[unclewebb]

this is obviously not a long-term solution

Using ThrottleStop to disable BD PROCHOT has been a long term solution for many users. It is better than tossing a laptop in the trash when a cheap sensor fails.

Post an updated screenshot of ThrottleStop including the FIVR and TPL windows. Before doing that, make a few adjustments in ThrottleStop.

On the main screen clear the Disable Turbo box and clear the BD PROCHOT box.

In the TPL window in the Power Limit Controls section, clear Sync MMIO, and clear the Lock box in this section. Set Long Power PL1 to 44. The power limit register is presently locked so you will need to reboot to unlock it before this change will take effect.

In the Miscellaneous section, clear TDP Level, Power Balance and clear the PP0 Power Limit box. It is rare when anyone with a similar CPU needs to use any of these. Set Power Limit 4 to a value of 0. Also clear the TDP Level Lock box.

HWiNFO shows the CPU is throttling but the reason why has been cropped off.

Exit HWiNFO. Post a screenshot of ThrottleStop with its Limit Reasons window open while your CPU is throttling.

The charger is 45W

Do you know if that was the original charger power rating? A 45W charger might cause your laptop to limit its speed so you do not exceed what the charger is capable of. Kind of like one of those silly replacement tires most cars come with. They are good enough to get you to the next town but not enough for maximum speed.

 

[remixedcat]

45w charger is awful low for a laptop like that. Even my ultra thin inspiron w ryzen 5700u has a 65w charger and my little 14in latitude 5400 has a 65w one as well. with an 8th gen i5 you should at least have a 65 w one I am shocked HP even does this stingy stuff w their "biz grade" elite books! just checked and my thnkpad t430 has a 65w one as well and it's a 14 incher w i5 3rd and 2c4t.

I'd definitely try a 65w one if you can

 

[Amo]

Foremost, Thank you so much for taking time to look at my problem, really appreciate it Unclewebb.

Anyway, to the things you requested, here is a picture of the limits and TPL:

And the FIVR:

Do you know if that was the original charger power rating? A 45W charger might cause your laptop to limit its speed so you do not exceed what the charger is capable of. Kind of like one of those silly replacement tires most cars come with. They are good enough to get you to the next town but not enough for maximum speed.

I assumed this was the original charger. At least, this is the charger that has been used with this device for several years. Looking at Google search results, however, it indeed doesn't seem like the original one(and should be 65W). So perhaps I once took the wrong adapter with me in a workplace filled with HPs?

Anyway, shouldn't this be irrelevant if the device is using its battery? After all, the same problem occurs even when the battery is the main power source.

 

[remixedcat]

Foremost, Thank you so much for taking time to look at my problem, really appreciate it Unclewebb.

Anyway, to the things you requested, here is a picture of the limits and TPL:
View attachment 352297
And the FIVR:
View attachment 352298


I assumed this was the original charger. At least, this is the charger that has been used with this device for several years. Looking at Google search results, however, it indeed doesn't seem like the original one(and should be 65W). So perhaps I once took the wrong adapter with me in a workplace filled with HPs?

Anyway, shouldn't this be irrelevant if the device is using its battery? After all, the same problem occurs even when the battery is the main power source.

Cold boot on battery without the charger and see if that happens do not plug the charger in and see if it still does it.

Speeds and such might be set on boot and if you boot w the lower watt charger then it will be stuck at lower speeds and it won't fix itself till a reboot.

 

[Amo]

Cold boot on battery without the charger and see if that happens do not plug the charger in and see if it still does it.

Speeds and such might be set on boot and if you boot w the lower watt charger then it will be stuck at lower speeds and it won't fix itself till a reboot.

I've removed the CMOS battery and unplugged the battery for 5 min, then booted using the battery as main power source, still the same issue.

 

[remixedcat]

I've removed the CMOS battery and unplugged the battery for 5 min, then booted using the battery as main power source, still the same issue.

Reset all bios settings

 

[unclewebb]

still the same issue

EDP OTHER throttling across all three domains is usually caused by a current limit that is set too low. Some manufacturers use an embedded controller (EC) to enforce a low ball current limit to protect the battery. I guess that makes sense but engineering a more robust battery makes more sense.

The throttling problems that you are having when plugged in are likely because you are using a 45W power adapter instead of a 65W power adapter. Try using the correct adapter and see if that makes any difference. I am not sure about HP but I know Dell laptops will throttle if they do not detect an original Dell OEM power adapter. Using a power adapter with a lower or higher rating can trigger extreme throttling. For some laptops, it has to be a perfect match.

Exit HWiNFO when using ThrottleStop Limit Reasons. HWiNFO clears the throttling information out of the processor. This can prevent ThrottleStop from accurately reporting this information.

Even when using the correct power adapter, your HP laptop might still be limited to the 15W TDP value. The 8th Gen U CPUs run great when all of the power and current limits are removed. Here is an example of a Lenovo C930 which does not have any limits enforced. The 8550U can run indefinitely at well beyond 15W. It will also run at full speed as long as it is not overheating. When you see what is possible, it is a real shame that HP decided to cripple their 8th Gen U series laptops so badly.

 

[Darmok N Jalad]

EDP OTHER throttling across all three domains is usually caused by a current limit that is set too low. Some manufacturers use an embedded controller (EC) to enforce a low ball current limit to protect the battery. I guess that makes sense but engineering a more robust battery makes more sense.

The throttling problems that you are having when plugged in are likely because you are using a 45W power adapter instead of a 65W power adapter. Try using the correct adapter and see if that makes any difference. I am not sure about HP but I know Dell laptops will throttle if they do not detect an original Dell OEM power adapter. Using a power adapter with a lower or higher rating can trigger extreme throttling. For some laptops, it has to be a perfect match.

Exit HWiNFO when using ThrottleStop Limit Reasons. HWiNFO clears the throttling information out of the processor. This can prevent ThrottleStop from accurately reporting this information.

Even when using the correct power adapter, your HP laptop might still be limited to the 15W TDP value. The 8th Gen U CPUs run great when all of the power and current limits are removed. Here is an example of a Lenovo C930 which does not have any limits enforced. The 8550U can run indefinitely at well beyond 15W. It will also run at full speed as long as it is not overheating. When you see what is possible, it is a real shame that HP decided to cripple their 8th Gen U series laptops so badly.

This is why I suspected the battery might be faulty, even if it checks out on the health meter. The system might be running in a safe mode because it can't get enough wattage to boost. Removing the battery got it up out of the 400MHz territory and closer to the rated all-core. I almost suspect that for relatively modern CPUs to hit rated speeds, they need both a good battery and a sufficient power supply. It doesn't help that these CPUs have had a TDP-down mode, where the OEM can elect to reduce clocks to hit power targets. It's good for flexibility, but bad in that the CPU you have installed may not really be able to run at peak potential, at least not for very long before it down clocks.

 

[Amo]

The throttling problems that you are having when plugged in are likely because you are using a 45W power adapter instead of a 65W power adapter. Try using the correct adapter and see if that makes any difference. I am not sure about HP but I know Dell laptops will throttle if they do not detect an original Dell OEM power adapter. Using a power adapter with a lower or higher rating can trigger extreme throttling. For some laptops, it has to be a perfect match.

Will take me a few days to order a correct adapter, will update this post whether it has worked.

Exit HWiNFO when using ThrottleStop Limit Reasons. HWiNFO clears the throttling information out of the processor. This can prevent ThrottleStop from accurately reporting this information.

Didn't know HWINFO affected Throttlestop, the limits seem to have stayed the same with or without.



Thanks again to everyone for your help! You've all been incredibly helpful, more than I could have ever asked for.

 

[remixedcat]

EDP OTHER throttling across all three domains is usually caused by a current limit that is set too low. Some manufacturers use an embedded controller (EC) to enforce a low ball current limit to protect the battery. I guess that makes sense but engineering a more robust battery makes more sense.

The throttling problems that you are having when plugged in are likely because you are using a 45W power adapter instead of a 65W power adapter. Try using the correct adapter and see if that makes any difference. I am not sure about HP but I know Dell laptops will throttle if they do not detect an original Dell OEM power adapter. Using a power adapter with a lower or higher rating can trigger extreme throttling. For some laptops, it has to be a perfect match.

Exit HWiNFO when using ThrottleStop Limit Reasons. HWiNFO clears the throttling information out of the processor. This can prevent ThrottleStop from accurately reporting this information.

Even when using the correct power adapter, your HP laptop might still be limited to the 15W TDP value. The 8th Gen U CPUs run great when all of the power and current limits are removed. Here is an example of a Lenovo C930 which does not have any limits enforced. The 8550U can run indefinitely at well beyond 15W. It will also run at full speed as long as it is not overheating. When you see what is possible, it is a real shame that HP decided to cripple their 8th Gen U series laptops so badly.

holy fek that's some evil stuff there! And Elitebooks are supposed to be biz grade machines! What biz can operate at such slow speeds. I am glad I didn't get an elitebook I almost got one at one point.