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lowering the voltage but performance decreased a lot.

mullemeck

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Hi,
trying to follow multiple guides, but whatever i do it all reduces my performance. Reason for doing this its because my fans goes hey wild way to much and CPU goes very hot sometimes. Core and ring EDP other is throttling also Core thermal sometimes.
My specs:
NVIDIA TUF 5070TI
Intel i7-14700KF
Arctic liquid freezer 3 360
asus prime Z790-A
Corsair 32gb (2x16GB) DDR5 6000Mhz

Posted screenshots of my settings on throttlestop right now.
appreciate help to fix the performance issue, but yet decrease voltage.
 

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unclewebb

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1743528265278.png


The top middle of the FIVR window shows that Undervolt Protection is enabled. This needs to be disabled in the BIOS before you can use ThrottleStop to undervolt your CPU. Post an updated FIVR screenshot after you get this disabled.

I would start testing with the CPU Core and the P Cache set to -100 mV. After setting an undervolt and pressing the Apply button, the undervolt should show up immediately in the FIVR monitoring table. Your screenshot shows +0.0000 in the Voltage Offset column. That confirms that the voltage offset is not being applied to the CPU because Undervolt Protection is enabled.

In the TPL window set Speed Shift Max to the recommended value, 73 or set it to the max 255. I would also set Power Limit 4 to the max, 1023.

Edit - ThrottleStop shows that you have Cache Ratio Max set to only 34. Any reason why? That should probably be set to somewhere around 50.
Try reducing the PL1 and PL2 turbo power limits to the Intel default value which is 253W. Less power will create less heat.
 
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Asus MCE set to disable enforce all limits and set LLC to lvl 2 on your board. On auto, the limits are lifted.

When you under-volt, it causes the effective clocks to droop.

Otherwise good luck!
 

unclewebb

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When you under-volt, it causes the effective clocks to droop.
I thought the effective clock drooping in HWiNFO mystery was being caused by Windows Defender using the system timers inappropriately. Using ThrottleStop or Counter Control should solve the droop problem.

 
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I thought the effective clock drooping in HWiNFO mystery was being caused by Windows Defender using the system timers inappropriately. Using ThrottleStop or Counter Control should solve the droop problem.

Intel likes v-core. Plenty of it. Should be seeing at least 1.40v just for single core boost clocks. Just under 1.3v for all core loads with a default LLC of lvl 3 on an Asus board which may droop v-core to around 1.27v. Once you go lower than that, the effective clocks will droop with it. This can be exampled by simply setting LLC to level 1 and the performance will tank pretty hard. This essentially is the same as under-volting.

System timers effect the benchmark times (fps). So for HWBot X265 benchmark, HPET in windows must be enabled or it won't even let you run the benchmark. For example.

Intel just doesn't do well with under-volting typically.
 

unclewebb

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This essentially is the same as under-volting.
Changing the LLC levels can change the voltage but that is not the same as undervolting. You can undervolt an HX processor with zero loss of performance.

I think the droop you are seeing is being caused by the Intel Current Excursion Protection feature. Playing around with the loadline values can trigger CEP. This can drop performance and likely the effective clocks significantly. That might be what is causing the performance drop for, @mullemeck the guy that started this thread.
 
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Changing the LLC levels can change the voltage but that is not the same as undervolting. You can undervolt an HX processor with zero loss of performance.

I think the droop you are seeing is being caused by the Intel Current Excursion Protection feature. Playing around with the loadline values can trigger CEP. This can drop performance and likely the effective clocks significantly. That might be what is causing the performance drop for, @mullemeck the guy that started this thread.
It is exactly the same as under-volting. Or if you will, Over-volting (Asus LLC lvl 4 and higher).
I can example clock droop where I've beaten scores that where run at 7ghz but considerable clock droop from not enough v-core, or lack of power if you will.
Suppose we can say the LLC is similar to NV power slider.

CEP is disabled by default Via Asus MCE (Multi-core enhancement) which lifts all power limits at default (enabled, power limits lifted) and why users feel the need to under-volt.

While 100c worries people, You can also set MCE to a 90c lifted power limits and it'll throttle 10c early.
All of which does hinder some performance, just depends on a good grip of variables.

But like I was trying to help with, I'd set MCE to enforce 253w limits. That should be first and foremost with any Asus user. Boards that don't have this feature should go into bios and set Long Term power limits manually to ensure 253w isn't exceeded causing unnecessary throttling due to high package temps. No, it's not always just about the core temps. It seems both my 14700K and 14900K package temps throttle first. Of course when I'm lifted power limits using ambient cooling.

The reason under-volt protection is blocked by default is that the ring (Cpu cache) frequency also requires decent v-core at 5ghz boost with ring down enabled (auto-defaults).

But like all processors, they come from the box boosted to about max capability and the Motherboard venders cater to just leaving power limits lifted and Intel can't figure out why people are smoking processors and everyone goes onto an under-volt band wagon. But it's just not necessary.

HX processor isn't a desktop processor. The reality is that HX chip will run 100,000 hours full load at 100c. No problem.

But no, the effective clocks obviously drooped hard on the Original poster here. The CPU being power starved will cause it.

Additional Comment: edit
Additionally, friend, the 3rd screen shot, Package power 327w peak. Wow. MCE - disable. Then, he'll be all good. :)

Edit:

I took the time to set up 14900K to run cool and hit target Cinebench score at 253w. When the board MCE has power limits lifted, expected should be over 42000pts. But at the cost of much thermals to sustain clocks.

Ran the benchmark twice, once for the hwinfo 64 readings which benchmate utilizes and cpu-z just after to show the actual v-core being used. I will agree, the system is useful for lying, but it's not anything to do with the timers. It's actually how ME is set up and what firmware is installed, but the same basic principle exists for OC. You don't need to add v-core up to a certain point.

This screen shot is only
Set up in bios.
XMP enabled.
MCE disabled
LLC lvl2

All other settings AUTO.
Windows is in performance mode.

1.19v is not enough to sustain actually 5.7ghz.
So why under-volt? The system handles the v-core extremely well.
there's not really a lot of performance loss per say.
There's loss of performance against power limits lifted only.
Which would produce scores with a manual OC of 5.8/4.5ghz P/E respectively. (42000pts to 43000pts CBR23)

But this runs pretty cool, hits target scores. 40K is ok.

MCE disabled.png

This screen shot is XMP only, all else AUTO defaults. damn thing hit 385w For what, a couple thousand points if that?
Boosted products of motherboard manufacturer to make more sales. At the cost of too much wattage usage.
But for Asus Desktop board, you gotta turn of the MCE. it's nasty performance marketing gimmicks.

Running v-core 1.365vdc. LLC auto.

MCE auto enabled.png
 
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mullemeck

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This screen shot is only
Set up in bios.
XMP enabled.
MCE disabled
LLC lvl2
I would start testing with the CPU Core and the P Cache set to -100 mV. After setting an undervolt and pressing the Apply button, the undervolt should show up immediately in the FIVR monitoring table. Your screenshot shows +0.0000 in the Voltage Offset column. That confirms that the voltage offset is not being applied to the CPU because Undervolt Protection is enabled.


I have done this, but cant seem to change the cache ratio, when i change it - it goes back to 0.

Done the changes but can not open Intels utility program anymore due to BIOS changes and do benchmarks from there. And i dont wanna purchase timespy for $30.

Is there anything else i should change?

Feels like this didnt help, but the opposite.
its also throttling on Core VMAX and EDP other.
 

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Last edited:
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I have done this, but cant seem to change the cache ratio, when i change it - it goes back to 0.

Done the changes but can not open Intels utility program anymore due to BIOS changes and do benchmarks from there. And i dont wanna purchase timespy for $30.

Is there anything else i should change?

Feels like this didnt help, but the opposite.
its also throttling on Core VMAX and EDP other.
All your ratios should be set on Auto including the cache. Ring down (cache) auto. Cache speed will vary 4ghz to 5ghz.

EDP means electrical design point. You're hitting the power limits, that's just a notification, not a warning. Not sure why it's red, but the color for that doesnt mean anything to me.

V-max is cause by the under-volt.

All the settings I gave you, very basic and effective by nature shouldn't need extra under-volt, and certainly don't need any software.

XTU and ThrottleStop work best with all bios settings at default (auto) with exception of XMP enabled.

Either way, you've got it down to 240w at max temp of 84c. That's pretty decent.
 

unclewebb

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Is there anything else i should change?
It appears that you still have a VBS security feature enabled. Your undervolt request is not being displayed in the FIVR monitoring table so it is still not working.

Try running msinfo32. Does it show that Virtualization Based Security is enabled?

1743606450945.png


Follow the two links in my signature to fully disable VBS. Exit ThrottleStop and delete the ThrottleStop.INI configuration file after you do that.

Try increasing IccMax to the max 511.75 for the CPU Core, P Cache, Intel GPU and iGPU Unslice. That can help with some current throttling problems.

EDP means electrical design point. You're hitting the power limits, that's just a notification, not a warning.
EDP is current limit throttling. If it was power limit throttling, you would see PL1 or PL2 light up red under the CORE column. It is not just a notification. It is telling you why the CPU is presently throttling and not running at full speed.

V-max is cause by the under-volt.
There is no undervolt being applied because VBS is still enabled.
 
Last edited:
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It appears that you still have a VBS security feature enabled. Your undervolt request is not being displayed in the FIVR monitoring table so it is still not working.

Try running msinfo32. Does it show that Virtualization Based Security is enabled?

View attachment 392990

Follow the two links in my signature to fully disable VBS. Exit ThrottleStop and delete the ThrottleStop.INI configuration file after you do that.


EDP is current limit throttling. If it was power limit throttling, you would see PL1 or PL2 light up red under the CORE column. It is not just a notification. It is telling you why the CPU is presently throttling and not running at full speed.


There is no undervolt being applied because VBS is still enabled.
Power is current which is amps. All the same thing.

It's not hitting target 253w, it's under-volted. Probably from him setting LLC lower, but he didn't confirm that.

Screen shot shows only 240w, so at least he's on the right track.

I can do no more here. I've already given settings and screen shot examples. There's nothing more we can do.
 

unclewebb

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All the same thing.
It is all the same but different. Intel CPUs report the reason why they are throttling. They report power limit throttling separate from current limit throttling. At 240W he is under the 253W turbo power limits that he has set so it is not power limit throttling. EDP lighting up red confirms a current limit is preventing his CPU from running at full speed. My suggestion to increase the IccMax current limits might help solve that problem.

it's under-volted. Probably from him setting LLC lower
That would be my guess.

I can do no more here.
Thanks for your input. I am sure it will help him get his CPU up to full speed.

@mullemeck
Try running Cinebench R23 so at least you have a baseline score to compare to. Somewhere around 35K to 36K is typical for a 14700KF.

 

mullemeck

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It is all the same but different. Intel CPUs report the reason why they are throttling. They report power limit throttling separate from current limit throttling. At 240W he is under the 253W turbo power limits that he has set so it is not power limit throttling. EDP lighting up red confirms a current limit is preventing his CPU from running at full speed. My suggestion to increase the IccMax current limits might help solve that problem.


That would be my guess.


Thanks for your input. I am sure it will help him get his CPU up to full speed.

@mullemeck
Try running Cinebench R23 so at least you have a baseline score to compare to. Somewhere around 35K to 36K is typical for a 14700KF.


I have removed all changed settings and removed throttlestop.
I’m lost in what to do for improvement. I tried the bios settings but from 11k benchmark I got like 800.
With what solution of yours is the way to go?
After going back to standard I notice the heat increase and fan increase, I do not like that.
with the previous throttlestop settings, temps got lower but also did performance - I did try disabling the settings you mentioned in bios, but I still got no voltage change in throttlestop where you said there should be an outcome if done properly. If I do -100 as you’ve mentioned, what more should I change?
I’ve seen people fiddling with the iccmax, is that on the table or should those be on what they’re set too?
 
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