Mains Conditioner with Surge Protection

[Deleted member 234478]

looking to get something like this some member posted this and seems legit for the outages we have. now worry for it going out, but when it constantly tries coming up and down multiple times that worries me.

im not in the uk but we have 230v/50. ill get some eu/uk adapters. but basically looking to connect

- 3 pc (1-2 are always on but rare to have all 3) 1 monitor, 1 of the 3 is a laptop.
-phone chargers
-moden/router
-2 standing air fans
-audio system denon receiver/usb preamp (2 speakers)
I was looking to get 1 of these and use 2x8 regular power strips that connected into the product above and it into the wall.

it says 15 amps. so im guessing it wont handle all the gear on it?

 

[Harlow]

use 2x8 regular power strips

The "surge protection" in most power strips is unlikely to do more than clamp short-duration voltage spikes (fast transients). They won't do anything for power dips or brown outs (if you experience them). Nor will they protect against power cuts. They will not do much if lightning strikes near your home (as has happened to me twice). Most of my equipment, PCs, audio, TV, plugs straight into the wall, especially my Denon amplifiers.

For true protection, you probably need a much more expensive always online UPS with true (pure) sine wave output. The mains going into the always online UPS charges the battery. The battery powers a mains inverter all the time. The output from the inverter feeds your equipment and isolates it from mains-borne disturbances, spikes, glitches, brown outs, surges and power cuts (untll the battery runs flat). I use a 1500VA APC UPS (approx US $600) on my main computer systems, but I don't protect PCs in other parts of the house. My APC UPS will happily power 3 or 4 PCs simultaneously, + modem/router, + two hardware firewalls, + two network switches, audio DAC, printer, etc.

An ATX PSU should be capable of powering the computer for up to 18ms (or is it 17ms) at 80% power out, if the mains "glitches" momentarily. Anything much longer (typically 30ms at lower loads) and the ATX power-good signal disappears and your computer stops working.

If you live in a part of the world where the mains is particularly "noisy" from the EMI/EMC perspective, by all means buy a few surge protection strips, but don't rely on them to protect you against all eventualities. Mains here is relatively stable, apart from during big storms when glitches/power cuts are more likely.

it says 15 amps. so im guessing it wont handle all the gear on it?

At 230V, even with three computers, a monitor and a laptop running, you're unlikely to approach 15A, unless all the PCs contain an i9-14900K and RTX4090 running flat out. If each computer runs at 400W (gaming/rendering), the current will be roughly 400W/230V = 1.7A. Most computers "idle" around 100W, give or take 50W. 100W/230V = 0.43A. A 14900K overclocked might pull 300W on its own, plus 450W for an RTX4090, plus another 100W for everything else, call it 850W max. 850W/230V=3.7A. I've not allowed for PSU efficiency of around 90%, so add another 10% to these figures.

audio system denon receiver/usb preamp (2 speakers)

If your Denon AMP is producing 100W+100W RMS into a pair of nice big speakers (the neighbours might complain) then assume it draws roughly 300W. 300W/230V=1.3A. My computer monitors contain 12" woofers, 5" mid range and dome tweeters.

-phone chargers

A few tens of Watts each max. Fractions of an Amp.

-moden/router

At a guess 30 to 50W.

2 standing air fans

A few tens of Watts each?

Nothing to get worried about.

P.S. That adapter you linked will have a 13A fuse in the mains plug, not 15A.

Don't panic. The fuse will run at 13A continuously for at least 1,000hours before blowing. It takes a surge of at least 26A to blow a 13A fuse in a UK plug.

 

[Deleted member 234478]

you paint a gloomy picture hahaha. very thorough even though parts that i read is all new to me. I dont care if the power goes out and I dont have a pc running. im fine. I have the laptop for that. I dont want a psu.

my worry is stabalizing the power coming in. some of the times (mostly summer but some really cold days) the power comes back, but immediately falls again, and then immediately comes back. a few times. and thats what worries me. the quick on/off/on.

 

[Hankieroseman]

UPS

 

[Deleted member 234478]

UPS

dont care for ups.
I
D-O-N-T
C-A-R-E
F-O-R
A U-P-S

im ONLY asking about the above linked product. dont push stuff into the conversation I dont care for.

 

[freeagent]

I use a line conditioner/surge suppressor. No batteries.

Works good, might even clean up your image and sound a bit.

 

[Shrek]

now worry for it going out, but when it constantly tries coming up and down multiple times that worries me.

Such devices exist for fridges and take minutes before they reconnect

 

[Deleted member 234478]

I use a line conditioner/surge suppressor. No batteries.

Works good, might even clean up your image and sound a bit.

can I kindly ask you show me a link/picture?

Such devices exist for fridges and take minutes before they reconnect
View attachment 375334

yes, need this! good. im always worried my fridge will zapped. what are these called please?

 

[freeagent]

can I kindly ask you show me a link/picture?

Sure, I am not sure if it is made anymore though, but I am sure there is something out there, maybe from Panamax?

Monster Power® HDP 1800 Power line conditioner and surge suppressor at Crutchfield

 

[Bill_Bright]

seems legit for the outages we have

Not even close. As Harlow correctly suggested, surge and spike protectors are little more than expensive and fancy extension cords. And that one in particular should, IMO, be investigated for false advertising because a surge and spike protector is NOT a mains "conditioner". It is a basic surge and spike protector.

A "true" power conditioner is an "active" device that regulates the waveform. As seen here, they are not cheap. Budget models are still around $250. And all are useless during a full outage. Power line conditioners are often used in high-end audio systems to prevent "noise" in the audio.

They won't do anything for power dips or brown outs (if you experience them)

This is misleading. EVERYONE EVERYWHERE has dips (opposite of spikes), sags (opposite of surges) and brownouts (long duration sags). We mere humans may not "see" or perceive them, but they are there. If your lights ever "flicker", that is a long sag (or short brownout). Most dips and sags happen so quickly, we don't see them but our electronics can sure feel them. And if severe enough they WILL cause systems to suddenly crash.

Surge and spike protectors do absolutely nothing for dips, sags, or brownouts and simply clamp (chop off the tops of the sinewaves) of high-voltage anomalies. That is NOT conditioning. And with extreme high-voltage events, a surge and spike protector will stop or "break" power output.

Most power fluctuations are like a swinging pendulum. The initial "event" may be a "dip" with the pendulum swinging towards a drop in voltage. Then the grid attempts to compensate and the pendulum swings back, through normal and results in a "surge" or increase in voltage. Then the pendulum swings back again until the swinging stops and the system becomes stable, and waits for the next dip or sag or surge or spike.

Note a simple "clean" outage will not damage our electronics. It may wreck havoc on our data and files, but it will not hard the electronics. HOWEVER, when power is restored, that is when damage may occur - especially with large grid outages when, upon restoral, EVERY SINGLE refrigerator, freezer, air conditioner and other power hungry devices in the neighborhood try to start up at the same moment.

Note too the ATX Form Factor standard requires all ATX PC PSUs to maintain output ("hold up") power for 12ms at 100% of full load, and recommends a minimum of 17ms with an 80% load. Our eyes cannot see a drop in power that only lasts 17ms. Yet if any longer, the PSU will stop outputting power.

Sadly, many otherwise highly rated PSUs do NOT meet those hold-up requirements.

A good UPS with AVR, however, will detect and react by either regulating the power in less than 4ms and in extreme cases, kick over to battery power in less than 10ms.

dont care for ups.
I
D-O-N-T
C-A-R-E
F-O-R
A U-P-S

Then you are wasting your time and ours. The ONLY way to deal with outages is with a "good" UPS with AVR (automatic voltage regulation).

HAVING SAID THAT, backup power during a complete power outage is only a minor bonus feature of a "good" UPS with AVR. By far, the greatest feature is the AVR.

A surge and spike protector is better than nothing, but not by much.

 

[Shrek]

Not sure I believe this
Do I Need a Surge Protector? - A1 Computer Repair
"Over 50% of equipment failures can be attributed to power surge/failure."

Get the Tripp-Lite Euro-4 if you can afford it.

 

[Deleted member 234478]

A surge and spike protector is better than nothing, but not by much.

good thats all I want.

alright ordered that one I linked. its enough. ill find one for the fridge.

 

[Bill_Bright]

"Over 50% of equipment failures can be attributed to power surge/failure."

Not sure I believe this

I know I don't believe it. No doubt excessive surges and spikes can and do damage electronics But there is no way to determine why a component fails, unless you actually see the culprit. You cannot "see" a spike or surge.

A fried resistor, for example, may (most likely) failed because it, or another device in the circuit had a manufacturing defect that weakened the device.

Technically, you could probably blame 100% of equipment failures on power failures - one way or another. The exception might be if the FedEx driver threw your package up on to your porch during delivery, or you spilled your soda on your laptop.

good thats all I want.

Its your money. Go to Walmart. They will gladly relieve you of it. Then mark your calendar because surge and spike protectors wear out and so it is recommended surge and spike protectors be replaced every 2 years. Once worn, then they really are nothing more than an expensive extension cord.

 

[Deleted member 234478]

we dont have wallmart. hence ordering from amzon and I wouldnt trust the locally made stuff.

ill find something for the fridge. thanks.

 

[Deleted member 242843]

When it comes to conditioners, I like the ones from Smartpower Systems.

https://smartpowersystems.com/

I have a several of these.

smartpower guardian

I even have a couple ups hooked up via the filters.

Really should keep an open-mind about UPS. Several birds with one stone. Not cheap, but well worth it.

 

[Shrek]

ill find something for the fridge. thanks.

ebay has a lot with various plug types

 

[Bill_Bright]

Not cheap, but well worth it.

Neither is a real conditioner. I note the PCS 1000VA (IPCS1000-TNET) shown in your first link is on sale for $977.84! One could buy 4 nice 1500VA/900W UPS with AVR for that money and have money left over to take the better half out to dinner.

Your Smartpower Guardian is not a real conditioner. It is a surge and spike protector with noise filters. Noise filters are nice in some audio systems, but not really needed with computers since PC PSUs already are required to support suppression of ripple and other unwanted AC components riding the DC that create noise and stability issues.

 

[Deleted member 234478]

im not in the usa so no point making reference or products to 110v/60. its just teasing me on awesome stuff you have that I have to pay twice for, if they even have 230v/50

here they massively thieve with prices of ups, far far higher then usa so dont care for them. for the price they ask, if an item goes, I can buy a new fride or psu or whatever.

I guess I dont see the value in ups. I had one in 1998, and it failed right after warranty. bought a new battery, didnt charge it. if the ceo was near me, Id throw it at him. so simply dont care for ups.

but again, the prices are so high for something decent. far higher then a few hundred bucks. we have massive tarrifs here. add to that my bad experience with one, and im noping out of that. Id just better replace the item. I ONLY care when the electricity comes back and it does the quick on/off/on/off. thats what im worried about. maybe ill get a delay for the wall outlet that connects to all my gear. well see, but no ups.

 

[Shrek]

Then mark your calendar because surge and spike protectors wear out and so it is recommended surge and spike protectors be replaced every 2 years. Once worn, then they really are nothing more than an expensive extension cord.

I pick units that check that protection is still present

 

[Deleted member 234478]

Neither is a real conditioner. I note the PCS 1000VA (IPCS1000-TNET) shown in your first link is on sale for $977.84! One could buy 4 nice 1500VA/900W UPS with AVR for that money and have money left over to take the better half out to dinner.

Your Smartpower Guardian is not a real conditioner. It is a surge and spike protector with noise filters. Noise filters are nice in some audio systems, but not really needed with computers since PC PSUs already are required to support suppression of ripple and other unwanted AC components riding the DC that create noise and stability issues.

my ONLY worry is when electricity comes back. not when it falls or any other time. ONLY this. when it tries to come back, many times it comes up, for a split second, then drops, then comes up again immediately. 2-4 times like this and thats when Im worried things will get zapped. what do I need for that? no ups. im sure there something for this that wont break my wallet. is there a delayed strip I can buy?

 

[Deleted member 242843]

Well, I have noisy power.....keeps me awake all night with that racket.

 

[Deleted member 234478]

Well, I have noisy power.....keeps me awake all night with that racket.

what do you mean? you hear noise through the electrical system through your audio? or regular humming buzzing in the room from the electrical wires?

 

[qxp]

A few points you might find helpful:

• for surge protection, especially from lightning strikes, it is important that the devices being protected have *only* *one* electrical connection. For example, a good connection is an electronic clock plugged into surge protector. A dodgy connection is a computer plugged into surge protector and having cat6 cable connected to the network card going somewhere else. The reason is that a lightning strike creates fast changing magnetic field which induces high voltages and/or currents in any nearby loop of wire. The bigger the area of the loop the more the effect. Even though a network card technically has isolated network ports the isolation is not enough to protect against lightning strike within a few hundred meters. To have proper protection for the computer either use surge protector with a pass-through surge protected ethernet port (I don't know of any with more than 100Mbit rating), or use Wifi or fiber optic.
• line conditioners are often used to clean up noisy power lines. For example, suppose you have a sensitive piece of lab equipment or poorly designed audio amplifier, and you have something noisy connected to power lines like a big brushed motor. Then a line conditioner will filter the noise out - they usually have capacitors and transformers inside. Good ones are usually expensive because the market is small. If you have a problem that needs a line conditioner and you want to try a cheap solution first, a line transformer (like a variac or one that changes 110<->220) will filter out a lot of noise because it is big.
• UPSes vary in quality. Some do a direct pass through and you only get a small amount of surge protection in normal conditions. Others pass through a transformer. There are also "always online" UPSes that always convert input AC to DC and then back to AC - these provide rock-steady output. Some modern consumer UPSes (like CyberPower) started to use transformers with aluminum windings to save on copper. I would suggest to avoid, because connecting aluminum wire to copper is difficult and there are videos on youtube showing how these start glitching causing UPS to shutdown. I have seen instances of CyberPower UPSes shutting down on their own, creating ridiculous situations where the UPS protected computer has crashed while the identical computer with just a surge protector is still on.

 

[Deleted member 242843]

I bet y'all are a blast at parties

 

[Shrek]

Some modern consumer UPSes (like CyberPower) started to use transformers with aluminum windings to save on copper. I would suggest to avoid, because connecting aluminum wire to copper is difficult and there are videos on youtube showing how these start glitching causing UPS to shutdown.

Do you have a link where I can learn more?

I also recall that one can solder to aluminum if one uses an ultra-sonic tip (to remove oxidation faster than it can form)