Memory DDR

[Bogus5]

There is a Memory DDR information in the Turbo FIVR Control section, but it does not correspond to the truth.
The installed modules are DDR5 5600 MT/s.

 

[unclewebb]

That ThrottleStop feature correctly reports the speed of my desktop DDR4 memory.
DDR4-4000 runs at 2000 MHz.

I have never tested this on any recent laptop that uses DDR5. Try using CPU-Z. It is usually pretty good at reporting memory speeds.

You can also try putting a load on the CPU. Some laptops have the ability to slow down the memory when the CPU is lightly loaded. This helps reduce light load power consumption.

Edit - Here is an example of ThrottleStop reporting 2794 on a similar 13900HX. DDR5 5600 is likely reported at half that speed due to it being double data rate. Your memory being reported so low must be a power saving feature. I am not sure how many utilities report low power / low speed mode correctly.

Windows 11 legion pro 5 16IRX8 [i9-13900HX]: Undervolting

Hi all! So I've been tinkering around trying to find the best settings for undervolting my laptop. At this point, I think it's best that I go on here and ask the pros for advices. I have provided you with some images of ThrottleStop. Please do keep in mind, that I did not mess with any of the...

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Lenovo Legion - 2794

Legion Pro 7i 13900HX undervolt

Hey guys, I need some help for my undervolt settings. I undervolted my CPU Core, P cache and E cache. Set my Iccmax of CPU core and P cache to 225. After that I reduced the Cache ratio from 48 to 40. Also the i reduced turbo ratios to 4.8Ghz for P cores, 3.8 Ghz for E cores for daily use...

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13900K - 3513

Intel 13th Gen Support?

@unclewebb Any idea why Windows Defender does this all of a sudden? It reports that's it's a trojan horse..

www.techpowerup.com

 

[career]

There is a Memory DDR information in the Turbo FIVR Control section, but it does not correspond to the truth.
The installed modules are DDR5 5600 MT/s.

Here is an example of ThrottleStop reporting 2794 on a similar 13900HX. DDR5 5600 is likely reported at half that speed due to it being double data rate. Your memory being reported so low must be a power saving feature. I am not sure how many utilities report low power / low speed mode correctly.

Any of last notebook's generation has a memory controller limitations. I saw tons of notebook tests and all the same, it shows that memory controller only performs in Gear 2 mode and, in the other hand, it forced to constantly operate in some kind of efficiency mode (possibly EC is involved), and because of that "efficiency mode" you cannot see fullspeed memory frequency in CPU-Z when notebook is in idle state.

Here is new 14th gen in 2024:

https://www.notebookcheck.com/MSI-Titan-18-HX-A14VIG-Laptop-im-Test-Das-Drachenjahr.798868.0.html#toc-5

(see english subs)

We see the same limitations. I heard someone said that if Intel would allow real Gear 1 mode in notebooks, it would have improved notebook performance dramatically.. So whatever, i trust there are some good reason they didn't.

 

[Bogus5]

I know perfectly well what memory modules I bought and installed in the laptop, I don't have to use CPU-Z, the problem is that ThrottleStop can't recognize them.

 

[3x0]

I know perfectly well what memory modules I bought and installed in the laptop, I don't have to use CPU-Z, the problem is that ThrottleStop can't recognize them.

Have you tried applying a CPU load as suggested?

 

[Bogus5]

Have you tried applying a CPU load as suggested?

Yes, but in TS it doesn't change anything.
On the other hand, the modules tested in AIDA64 have results appropriate to their parameters.

 

[career]

Checked mine.

It seems this value is not live updated by ThrottleStop as for example values above (voltage and cache ratio). It is just showing minimum DRAM frequency at which it is allowed to perform by Intel memory controller or probably Asus EC. I'm seeing in ThrottleStop: 998 μCode 41B.

What i have in my notebook with Asus & Intel (12th gen, memory 16x2 DDR5 4800) is that.

FSB ~100 Mhz

Min mem controller frequency 1:5 (~500 MHz)
Med mem controller frequency 1:9 (~900 MHz)
Max mem controller frequency 1:12 (~1200 MHz)

So accordingly it gives us:

Min DRAM frequency ~1000 MHz (ie 998 that is what we see in ThrottleStop), the final value x2 since we have dual channel, so it is 2000 Mhz
Med DRAM frequency ~1800 MHz, the final value x2 since we have dual channel, so it is 3600 Mhz
Max DRAM frequency ~2400 MHz, the final value x2 since we have dual channel, so it is 4800 Mhz

Min FSB : DRAM 1:10 (idle or some light load)
Med FSB : DRAM 1:18 (light or normal load)
Max FSB : DRAM 1:24 (higher than normal load)

Max cache ratio is 40 (HX CPUs have it much higher)

 

[Bogus5]

I was also looking for some logic in what TS shows, but on newer CPUs this program does not cope with presenting the right values for memory modules.

With VBS enabled, ThrottleStop sets information that is close to correct, so you can see a clear conflict between VBS and TS.

 

[unclewebb]

I know perfectly well what memory modules I bought and installed in the laptop

The AIDA64 screenshot you posted correctly shows that you have DDR5-5600 memory modules. That screenshot does not show what speed your memory modules are actually running at.

but in TS it doesn't change anything.

Close the FIVR window, apply a load, and then open the FIVR window. Does ThrottleStop report a higher Memory DDR value when you do that? It should.

this value is not live updated by ThrottleStop

That is the problem. The Memory DDR value is only sampled once when you first open the FIVR window. It is not being updated in real time. My desktop computer runs the memory at a fixed speed so updating this information more than once did not seem necessary. Modern laptops slow the memory down when a computer is idle. The Memory DDR value that ThrottleStop reports needs to be updated in real time so it can accurately report when laptop memory is going into low speed / low power mode. I will get that fixed up. Probably this week.

With VBS enabled

Anything ThrottleStop reports in the Memory DDR box when VBS is enabled is equivalent to a random number. It means nothing. Here is an example with VBS enabled.

What is interesting in all of this is the Lenovo Legion laptops with HX processors seem to be running DDR5-5600 memory at full speed even when lightly loaded.

looking for some logic in what TS shows

When ThrottleStop starts reporting Memory DDR information in real time, I think there will be a lot more logic in what it is reporting. This information is being read directly from the memory controller within the CPU. The information being reported is not as out to lunch as you think it is. Try running Cinebench or a TS Bench 7680M test. Open the FIVR window while either test is in progress and you should see a higher Memory DDR number.

@career - Thank you for your explanation.

Edit - Here is a CPU-Z example of a 13900HX laptop with DDR5-4800. The memory is running at 997.6 MHz. That speed seems to be a common theme with Intel laptops that are idle.

Intel Core i9 13900 @ 3192.19 MHz - CPU-Z VALIDATOR

[xs4ti2] Validated Dump by Anonymous (2023-02-24 06:44:34) - MB: Notebook CNP6S - RAM: 16384 MB

valid.x86.fr

I don't have to use CPU-Z

I suggested CPU-Z because I believe it updates actual memory speed information in real time.

 

[AleXXX666]

There is a Memory DDR information in the Turbo FIVR Control section, but it does not correspond to the truth.
The installed modules are DDR5 5600 MT/s.

View attachment 332946

maybe mult it by 5?... I also hate the fact DDR speeds are shown "divided" in software....

 

[career]

What is interesting in all of this is the Lenovo Legion laptops with HX processors seem to be running DDR5-5600 memory at full speed even when lightly loaded.

Agreed, there were a rumors are that in Lenovo it can be tweaked via bios (secret bios, modded bios or whatever else, sorry i don't know the details). I do have this example from notebookcheck whith some screenshots https://www.notebookcheck.net/Legio...bitious-gaming-laptop-yet.758310.0.html#toc-5. I see almost no difference, same "efficiency" mode there.

Edit - Here is a CPU-Z example of a 13900HX laptop with DDR5-4800. The memory is running at 997.6 MHz. That speed seems to be a common theme with laptops. That is why I suggested using CPU-Z. I am pretty sure it updates the actual memory speed in real time.

Agreed, it is common thing in reviews. Sometimes their authors are not familiar with some laptop features. However still do not get why the numbers of new MSI Titan 18 HX are so weird.

Glad i can do something good for you, sir.

 

[unclewebb]

Lenovo it can be tweaked via bios

I would not be surprised if you can toggle one bit off in the BIOS to disable memory low speed when idle mode. I would also not be too surprised if some manufacturers do this deliberately to get better memory performance and less latency. There is always a reason why some laptops perform better than others. Most laptop review sites do not put in too much effort trying to find out why something happens.

Glad i can do something good for you

I think you have motivated me to do some more programming this week. That is good for everyone, including me.

 

[Bogus5]

The clock frequency of the Northbridge is dynamically changing, while the Memory Bus (DRAM Frequency) remains constant and amounts to 2793.2 MHz, which corresponds to 5586.4 MT/s.
I don't need any information about Uncore Frequency at all in TS, just a proper reading of DRAM Frequency.

 

[unclewebb]

just a proper reading of DRAM Frequency

I just sent you a TS version that updates DRAM frequency in real time. It should show a difference in memory speed when the CPU is idle or when it is loaded.

I don't need any information about Uncore Frequency at all in TS

The Cache Ratio displayed in the FIVR monitoring table is updated in real time. That shows the Uncore information.

 

[Bogus5]

I just sent you a TS version

Could you send me this version of TS again, because while cleaning the mail, this mail flew into space?
Sorry for the inconvenience.

 

[career]

I would not be surprised if you can toggle one bit off in the BIOS to disable memory low speed when idle mode. I would also not be too surprised if some manufacturers do this deliberately to get better memory performance and less latency. There is always a reason why some laptops perform better than others. Most laptop review sites do not put in too much effort trying to find out why something happens.

Agreed, i hope you are right and this setting can be effortless to change.

I think you have motivated me to do some more programming this week. That is good for everyone, including me.

Doing my best! When you speak something out you never know how it will pan out! Millions of people will be happy to have this spring update. We all look forward to see Anniversary Release 10.x as well!

Although it must be admitted that current release is absolute stable, it performs well and do everything what it is supposed to do. Actually it seems that it fits most of requirements to tune new CPUs except maybe new Core Ultra 7 and 9 (this has yet to be confirmed).

Mr unclewebb, we are all happy to have you around! Nevertheless, with all due respect, it is up to you to continue release updates or not, and always will be.

 

[Bogus5]

On my computer, unfortunately TS can't show the nominal frequency for memory modules, no matter what scenario you use. On the other hand, the modules themselves work with specification efficiency.
I've also tried the beta version of TS, but it also shows the same value (998).

and always will be.

That's for Kevin to decide.

 

[unclewebb]

unfortunately TS can't show the nominal frequency for memory modules

I still find it odd that ThrottleStop 9.6 has no problem reading the memory speed of Lenovo Legion laptops that use DDR5 and similar 13900HX processors. This YouTube video reviews a Legion Pro 7i which ships with DDR5-5600 memory.

DDR5-5600 runs at 2800 MHz when the BCLK is at 100.0 MHz. In this case the actual BCLK is slightly less, 99.776 MHz. When calculating the memory speed you have to correct for that.

( 99.776 MHz / 100.0 MHz ) X 2800 MHz = 2794 MHz

That is exactly what ThrottleStop is reporting in the Memory DDR box.

I have seen other examples of 13980HX processors installed in MSI laptops and once again, ThrottleStop is able to report the memory speed.

MSI Global English Forum

...

forum-en.msi.com

An XMG laptop screenshot looked OK too. Desktop 13th Gen processors are also being reported correctly by ThrottleStop.

After thinking about this way too much, I cannot think of any reasonable explanation why ThrottleStop constantly reports a Memory DDR value of 998 for your laptop or why this mostly only happens when running ThrottleStop on Asus laptops. I did find a Dell screenshot that showed the same 998. More testing is needed after I release a new version of ThrottleStop that updates the Memory DDR value in real time.

 

[career]

mostly only happens when running ThrottleStop on Asus laptops. I did find a Dell screenshot that showed the same 998.

There is a possibility to get the same with Razer Blade too.

ThrottleStop help on I7-11800H with RazerBlade 17 (Mid 2021

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Undervolting a Mid 2021 Razer Blade 15 Advanced 11800H RTX 3070

Hello TPU fam, I wanted to head over to introduce myself as this is my first post but couldn't find the thread for that haha. I'm new to the world of undervolting and would love any tips I can get to help my laptop run at optimal performance with no throttling. Here is a screenshot of the most...

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Razer Blade 15 Adv mid-2021 11900h 3080 4k OLED unable to reach deep Package C States beyond C3: terrible battery life and idle consumption

Hey buddies, new forum user here. After long searching i decided to ask for your kind help hoping to find a solution (right now I'm kinda hopeless). This problem has driven me crazy in the past few months and I'm steel unable to understand its nature. It's here since I bought this laptop last...

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[Bogus5]

If TS starts to display the DRAM Frequency value correctly for the installed memory modules, I will be completely satisfied.

 

[unclewebb]

There is a possibility to get the same with Razer Blade too.

All of your Razer examples are running 11th Gen H series CPUs. The first example is with VBS enabled. ThrottleStop cannot read anything correctly when virtualization is enabled.

The rest of the 11th Gen screenshots show --. ThrottleStop is requesting memory MHz information from the CPU but perhaps the 11th Gen H series do not have that feature available.

Do a search for laptops with 13th or 14th Gen HX processors. Here is a Razer Blade 16 video with a 13900HX that shows 998 MHz.

That seems to be the normal memory MHz speed when some of these laptops are idle. The Lenovo Legion screenshots with HX processors that I have seen never seem to run at this lower speed. Perhaps Lenovo has found a trick to disable low speed memory mode. There might be an option hiding somewhere in the CPU to toggle this feature on or off. Maybe there was a microcode update that fixed this bug or created a new bug.

If TS starts to display the DRAM Frequency value correctly for the installed memory modules, I will be completely satisfied.

Sorry for the bad news but unless Asus releases a BIOS update or Intel releases a microcode update, that will probably never happen.

 

[Bogus5]

Are you saying that there is no way for TS to read the data from the SPD correctly?

 

[career]

The Lenovo Legion screenshots with HX processors that I have seen never seem to run at this lower speed. Perhaps Lenovo has found a trick to disable low speed memory mode. There might be an option hiding somewhere in the CPU to toggle this feature on or off. Maybe there was a microcode update that fixed this bug or created a new bug.

This one has 998 https://www.notebookcheck.net/Legio...bitious-gaming-laptop-yet.758310.0.html#toc-5. I remember someone said that if you either in Bios or Lenovo Vantage software turn on overclocking option (by default it is off) that will switch memory clock to maximum mode. But i can't gurantee that it is true.

 

[unclewebb]

Are you saying that there is no way for TS to read the data from the SPD correctly?

ThrottleStop does not read SPD information from the memory modules. ThrottleStop reads memory speed information directly from the CPU.

I do not know if this information is updated in real time within the CPU. Now that I think about it, probably not. My best guess is that when your Asus laptop first boots up, the memory starts out running at its lowest speed. The CPU reads and likely saves this initial speed information. If the CPU never updates this information then your CPU will always report the same 998 MHz value that ThrottleStop is showing.

Many Lenovo Legion laptops and many other computers are probably running the memory at full speed during boot up. There are lots of examples of ThrottleStop reporting the correct MHz for many 13th Gen HX processors in non-Asus laptops. At first I thought that maybe Intel changed something. If that was true, ThrottleStop would not work correctly on any 13th Gen HX processor. My best guess is that the memory MHz information that is stored within the CPU is not being updated in real time within the CPU. I updated ThrottleStop to read this information every second. If this information is never changing then ThrottleStop will keep reporting the same MHz value.

There is no way for me to fix this. If your memory bandwidth is similar to other Legion laptops that report the memory at full speed then you can ignore the number that ThrottleStop displays for Memory DDR. This number is not important.

If your memory bandwidth performance is way below similar laptops with similar processors and similar memory, that is a problem that only Asus would be able to solve.

that will switch memory clock to maximum mode

Some magic switch that is likely hidden in the BIOS is probably being used by some manufacturers to always run the memory at maximum speed. That would explain a lot. Any load should immediately switch the memory to full speed. I doubt this issue is a significant performance issue as long as the memory jumps up to full speed when required.

 

[Bogus5]

This one has 998 https://www.notebookcheck.net/Legio...bitious-gaming-laptop-yet.758310.0.html#toc-5. I remember someone said that if you either in Bios or Lenovo Vantage software turn on overclocking option (by default it is off) that will switch memory clock to maximum mode. But i can't gurantee that it is true.

Well, I'm looking at the results from the link and the memory copy test on Lenovo gave a result of 78266 MBps, and on my Asus 80919 MBps, although in Lenovo the modules can work with 6400 MTps, and on Asus only 5600 MTps.
I find it strange that TS can't use information from SPDs like CPU-Z, HWINFO, AIDA64 and many others.