Modded AIO watercooler performance degraded.

[Mathragh]

Hello Guys, while rebuilding my system today, i ran into some trouble with my customized H80i, and was hoping anyone here had some insights.

So the loop in question consists of the Pump/block combo of the H80i, modded onto an R9 290x, which outputs out of the back of the case into an 120mm double thickness rad (the default one that comes with the H80i), from where it goes into an XSPC 5 inch bay reservoir, which then feeds the H80i again.

This used to run great, had very good temps both idle and under load, even when overclocked (especially since the VRM's were also cooler seperately). Now today i rebuilt the system again with a new motherboard after it had been sitting turned off for a couple of months. When inspectic the loop while rebuilding I noticed that the water looked a bit murky, with some particles floating around in it. i drained the loop and refilled it with fresh distilled water.
After getting rid of all air from the loop i started system back up. Everything seemed fine, but the fans connected to the H80i behaved very erratic, spinning up into high RPMs, and upon opening some monitoring programs, both the temperature of the GPU, and the water temperature were way higher than normal. Furthermore upon inspecting the loop whilst the PC was running, only the tubing going into the rad was getting warm, whilst the tubing away from the rad, and the res itself where staying cool.

This leads me to believe there is something wrong with the pump, or atleast the pumping speed. Corsair link however shows the pump as running, albeit maybe at a slightly high RPM. During the filling of the loop i also noticed a distinct difference between the pump sound before and after it was refilled with water. Air bubbles and to some extent water are also observable as being moving when the pump is running, so it seems to be functioning in some fashion atleast.

Sooo, here i am calling upon those more experienced in these matters, what could be my problem, and how could i go about fixing it?
My first own idea after thinking about it for a while is the pump or block (or maybe rad?) being clogged up somehow by the gunk that seemed to have built up in the system while it was sitting still.



quick TL;DR:
Custom loop has murky water in it after sitting still for couple of months
refreshed water, pump seems to work, but water temperature reported by the pump is high, only one side of the loop gets warm, pump is provably running.

 

[sneekypeet]

Block corrosion from mixed metals and use of water?

 

[Mathragh]

Block corrosion from mixed metals and use of water?

I haven't added any other metals into the loop, so that would mean the set corsair delivers as the "H80i" has this inherent problem. Could be i guess if their default coolant somehow works against that where water wouldnt.

That would mean i need other coolant then i suppose.

 

[Jetster]

Ether its clogged, worn out or cavitating

 

[Deleted member 178884]

I haven't added any other metals into the loop, so that would mean the set corsair delivers as the "H80i" has this inherent problem. Could be i guess if their default coolant somehow works against that where water wouldnt.

That would mean i need other coolant then i suppose.

How long has it been under use? Thermal paste or liquid metal? Is the h80i's cpu block oxidised badly?

 

[Mathragh]

How long has it been under use? Thermal paste or liquid metal? Is the h80i's cpu block oxidised badly?

It's been under use for a couple of months on my end, don't know about it's previous owner. Only has seen normal paste judging by the pristine underside of the block.

Ether its clogged, worn out or cavitating

How could i check whether it's cavitating? I'm somewhat sure it's not worn out since it was fine before it's hiatus.

Clogged would mean opening it up, which i should be capable of.

 

[MrGenius]

Take pics of how clogged it is when you open it up. I'd like to see if it looks any worse than mine did.

The clogged inlet side...and leaking...obviously.

 

[Mathragh]

Take pics of how clogged it is when you open it up. I'd to see if it looks any worse than mine did.

The clogged inlet side...and leaking...obviously.
View attachment 103888

Haha yikes! what caused the clogging in your case?

 

[MrGenius]

Haha yikes! what caused the clogging in your case?

Being run for a little over 2 years. "Maintenance free" they say. Yeah...until just after the 2 year warranty expires. When it clogs itself and starts slowly leaking passed the the o-ring due to inevitable corrosion of the copper sealing surface. Lesson learned: AIOs are cheap, effective, and convenient. And will probably last as long as the warranty period. If it makes it that far, you've got your money's worth out of it. And you should start expecting there to be serious problems with it.

 

[Hood]

Being run for a little over 2 years. "Maintenance free" they say. Yeah...until just after the 2 year warranty expires. When it clogs itself and starts slowly leaking passed the the o-ring due to inevitable corrosion of the copper sealing surface. Lesson learned: AIOs are cheap, effective, and convenient. And will probably last as long as the warranty period. If it makes it that far, you've got your money's worth out of it. And you should start expecting there to be serious problems with it.

Should I be worried? I bought my H110 in July 2014. Surprisingly, all Corsair Hydro series have a 5 year warranty, and mine is 4 years old. It still cools exactly the same, though. 2 years ago, I replaced the crap sleeve bearing fans with Noctua industrial 1500rpm fans, so they dodged that bullet - I could've RMAed it for fan rattling.

 

[GorbazTheDragon]

Had a H75 that clogged up pretty fast and lost quite a bit of coolant to the point where it became useless in about a year and a half of use... turns out the coolant evaporates through the tubing very quickly at moderately high temps (i had mine stuffed inside a RVZ01)

I didn't have too much success cleaning it by opening it up, I would suggest trying to pump water through in reverse to do so.

 

[Space Lynx]

This thread just reminded me of why I am Noctua for life. Cheers!

 

[Mathragh]

In the interest of staying on topic, and also to the defence of "modern" AIO's:

- The problems only came up after i started tinkering with my H80i, supplanting the coolant and adding things to the loop.
- I have a H100i in the same system, which must be like 5 years old now, and it's running as good as it did the moment i got it.

Anyway, i'm going to open up the unit in the coming days and will report back.

 

[Space Lynx]

In the interest of staying on topic, and also to the defence of "modern" AIO's:

- The problems only came up after i started tinkering with my H80i, supplanting the coolant and adding things to the loop.
- I have a H100i in the same system, which must be like 5 years old now, and it's running as good as it did the moment i got it.

Anyway, i'm going to open up the unit in the coming days and will report back.

Ah my answer was based on your reply in post number 3 of this thread... now your changing the story... I am confused...

 

[Mathragh]

Ah my answer was based on your reply in post number 3 of this thread... now your changing the story... I am confused...

In that comment, I said I changed out the coolant for water, which would create a problem where there wouldn't have been one hadn't I opened up the unit and switched out the coolant.
Thus it's still not a problem with the H80i itself, but rather the components of an H80i combined with the wrong coolant.

 

[Flyordie]

In that comment, I said I changed out the coolant for water, which would create a problem where there wouldn't have been one hadn't I opened up the unit and switched out the coolant.
Thus it's still not a problem with the H80i itself, but rather the components of an H80i combined with the wrong coolant.

When you did that, I'd have added a shotglass of ethylene glycol. To inhibit corrosion and kill any organics.

 

[Vayra86]

This thread just reminded me of why I am Noctua for life. Cheers!

Air cooling FTW

 

[jboydgolfer]

Should I be worried? I bought my H110 in July 2014. Surprisingly, all Corsair Hydro series have a 5 year warranty, and mine is 4 years old.

no.

i have had several Corsair units, and some others. Ive never had a leak, or crack. I did have one of the original H50's, and the pump began to make a bit of noise Long after its warranty had lapsed, but no leaks, & never stopped working. They sent me a BNIB H75 since the unit i had was one of their originals, and they no longer made them. I think a Lot of people are too rough with their AIO, or do some other user error based damage that causes leakage. Of course units will leak , but i feel the number of units that Dont leak, Far outweigh the ones that do, Its just the nature of people to report bad experiences more often than good ones. BTW, I have an H-110iGTX RGB, and it is hands down one of the best quality, and performing Loops ive ever used (including custom) or any other form of cooling, unbeatable.

 

[Space Lynx]

no.

i have had several Corsair units, and some others. Ive never had a leak, or crack. I did have one of the original H50's, and the pump began to make a bit of noise Long after its warranty had lapsed, but no leaks, & never stopped working. They sent me a BNIB H75 since the unit i had was one of their originals, and they no longer made them. I think a Lot of people are too rough with their AIO, or do some other user error based damage that causes leakage. Of course units will leak , but i feel the number of units that Dont leak, Far outweigh the ones that do, Its just the nature of people to report bad experiences more often than good ones. BTW, I have an H-110iGTX RGB, and it is hands down one of the best quality, and performing Loops ive ever used (including custom) or any other form of cooling, unbeatable.

I had LASIK eye surgery 4 years ago, people told me only less than 1% of people had problems, I was still scared but also a logical person. I still have trouble seeing out of my right eye, and also my night vision which was above average before is now non-existant.

Do I understand what you are saying? Yes, but on my limited budget, will I ever risk water or fighting warranty with a company to replace a $800 graphics card that got leaked on? Nope. I wish I learned my lesson with the water and not my eye. Do as you please though, statistically, indeed you will be fine. For me, I have... other insight that leads me to prefer Noctua, also, temps are about that same across the board if you buy the higher end Noctua, so why risk it. Logic is the only weapon I use now, and deducing this logic has ended this conversation ~

 

[John Naylor]

Yes... the H80i is a CLC and that's one of CLC's inherent problems":

-Weak pump (H100i is 0.11 (gpm) ... custom loops generally target 1.00 - 1.25 gpm
-Can not be expanded
-Inefficient aluminum radiator
-Mixed metals ... alum rad / copper block = galvanic corrosion cell .. see pics and links below
-Corrosion inhibitors have useful life of 18 - 24 months, then what ?
-Extreme speed fans (loud)

For a good explanation of the science
https://martinsliquidlab.wordpress.com/2012/01/24/corrosion-explored/

But in short, just like a "sacrificial zinc anode" on a boat, the aluminum sacrifices electrons to the electrolyte (coolant) and it corrodes away and the electrons react to form compounds which are deposited on the copper block.

"Advisory Warning: If you are a geek / nerd, theses pics may result in unpleasant physical symptoms,"

If you want to use AIOs, would recommend the Swiftech or EK units which are all copper / brass and simply add a water block

As far as running as good as it was years ago ... you don't know that .... not until you take it apart and look at the blocks

I have no way of knowing if this is what is happening in your case (not enough info) but this is what we usually find when a CLC equipped system is broiught in wiyth less than expected thermal performance

There's possibly one more problem..... Despite Corsair's written instructions, most CLC users install their fans blowing out. Not sure why most think they know better than the people who mad eit but my only guess is that they learned in 8th grade science that hot air rises. It does, but inperceptibly so and not when there's a fan blowing the other way. So... considering that intake fans have their air flow restricted by filters which can restrict air flow by as much as 33% after short term usage, you will need at least 5 fans blowing in.

If you don't have that, then you will very likely have negative case pressure especially cause CLCs use extreme speed fans and your case probably does not. Moist see dust as the issue here, but that's the smaller problem. When you have negative case pressure, o balance that air comes in thru and opening in the case ... in most cases this is the rear case grille and openings in slot covers. So lets think about the thermodynamics here ....

If rad fans are blowing out, the fluid is being cooled by preheated case air reducing the cooling potential of the thing you were mist concerned about being hot. let's say inside air is 3C hotter than outside... at the target delta T of 10C, you reducted the cooling capacity of the rads by 30%. The usal response is, well than you make the inside air hotter ... so ? if your were concerned about MoBo, RAm, whatever, you'd have water blocks on that ... there's 0 impact. But more importantly, the makeup air that your case fans are not bringing in is, in many cases, being sucked in thru the biggest openings available and that's the rear case grille. IS that bad ? Well when ya consider that your 650 watt PSU and 200 watt GPU are all pushing their hot exhaust out the back only to be sucked right back in, yes that is not a good thing.

Again, have seen this before when examining systems performing less than expected. We use a cheap "garage band" fog machine and discharge the fog behind the case. Despite all the protestations, hearts and minds get changed rather quickly when the box is filled with fog. S again, without more info, can't say this applies to your situation but it's common enough that's it's worth checking.

And yes, while I worry about CLCs due to leakage, I have 0 concerns with custom water loops.

 

[GorbazTheDragon]

How does +3c ambient result in -30% cooling performance at the same +10c delta from liquid to ambient?

The only thing that will happen is the whole system will run 3c warmer.

I also think most people do keep the rear exhaust fan but do not use a blower GPU meaning that whatever hot air gets deposited outside the case is a nonfactor and whatever gets deposited inside does go through the radiator.

More doesn't really apply here because in the OP the H80 is mentioned to be rear exhaust.

I personally use a single top intake with 2 front intakes, reduces the temps through my nh-u14s by around 5c. But in this case it mostly just counters the CPU fan recycling air around the top of the heatsink. Most of the time with a rear exh AIO it should not be a problem.

 

[Mathragh]

@John Naylor; thank you for that extensive write-up. I feel like a bit of a noob now you've explained the corrosion part, I was assuming distilled water would be ok since it shouldn't really conduct, but apparently i was wrong. The coolant Corsair fills their loops with must either contain some anti-corrosive or not be water at all.

Regarding my airflow: My PSU sucks air in from the bottom and exhausts it through the rear, so it doesn't influence the case temp at all apart from some skin contact. Apart from all both my CPU and GPU are water cooled, with the CPU mounted in the top of the case, and the GPU at the back. There should therefore be no real sources of heat in the case at all, and I've made sure that fresh air is plentiful by using the built-in case fans in the front and side.

If I read this all correctly, and if my current loop is salvageable, I should then add some anti-corrosive to the water. Do people have any other things apart from ethylene glycol I could research?

 

[micropage7]

i agree looks like clogged or there's a problem with the pump so the water can't circulate

 

[Mathragh]

So I finally got around to opening the unit, and it would appear to be just growth?
Don't see any signs of corrosion at least:both in the pump/block and the radiator do not seem to be damaged at all.

Interesting to see these units from the inside.

 

[MrGenius]

Mine corroded where the o-ring seals against the cold plate. Causing it to slowly leak. It looks like that o-ring might be molded to the cold plate. Anyway, if it isn't, you might want to take a look under there. Or not, if you want to take the "if it ain't broke" approach. If it is corroded under there it would probably be leaking already. And it doesn't look like it is. If it were you could replace the o-ring with some dope/sealant applied to it. You'd need to use something compatible with rubber gaskets. No RTV/Silicone(well...you might be able to get away with it here...but generally it's not a good idea...because it can cause the rubber to slip/squish out when installed). I use this stuff for such purposes...

http://www.crcindustries.com/products/copper-coat-174-gasket-compound-4-fl-oz-401504.html

It's basically heavy duty rubber cement infused with fine copper particles. It can be used on any type of gasket/seal, with any kind of fluid(coolant, fuel, oil, air, etc.). And is good for high temp applications too. I've used it on head gaskets, o-rings, and various paper gaskets. Good stuff. Never had it fail on me.