MSI Vector 17 HX A14VIG "EDP OTHER"

[eniva]

Hello friend unclewebb.

I also own an msi laptop, to be exact the Vector 17 HX A14VIG.

I would like to compare my settings with yours if possible to see if I'm doing everything right.

At idle I usually get "EDP OTHER" yellow in core, gpu, ring but at maximum load nothing appears (CINEBENCH R23 I got a score of 35,106 points in 10 minute test).

Greetings and thanks for your great work.

 

[ProgUn1corn]

This is normal since MSI locks the current limit in EC, it does not matter what current limit you set in the BIOS so there's constant EDP Other.

But if this doesn't affect your real world usage, then just ignore it. Also laptops are pretty restricted in terms of hardware design, nearly every laptop on the market has EDP Other problems.

 

[unclewebb]

EDP OTHER

I found that setting Power Limit 4 to the max, 1023, works better than setting Power Limit 4 to a value of 0. That is going to be my new recommendation going forward. I get a yellow EDP OTHER box under the RING column when idle. Full load is OK when running Cinebench.

I do not think it is necessary to check the PP0 Power Limit box. I never do.

175W is not enough to run Cinebench at full speed. I had to set IMON Slope in the BIOS to 50 to get around any power limit throttling problems. The only throttling I get now is temperature related.

Do you use MSI Center? I use it for fan control. I am now seeing two TDP sliders in MSI Center. PL1 is max 140W and PL2 is max 175W. These limits are EC power limits so they cannot be controlled by using ThrottleStop. IMON Slope adjustment was the only way I found to get around this limitation.

You can update the microcode to version 0x12B by using this method.

[INTEL]-How To Update Your Microcode for Intel HX 13/14th Gen. CPUs Laptops/Mobile Easily.

Let me start with a small background info... Since we know all Intel's fiasco about what is happening with Raptor Lake/Raptor Lake Refresh which is Intel's codename for the 13th and 14th generations of Intel Core processors, Most OEM/Vendors doesn't want to provide BIOS update that includes...

www.techpowerup.com

Supposedly the latest microcode versions can help prevent the CPU from degrading. I am not sure why the latest BIOS versions from MSI are still using the older 0x116 microcode version.

Your core and cache undervolt settings are very similar to what I use. Somewhere in the -150 mV to -160 mV range is Cinebench stable. I have not done any extensive stability testing yet. Trying to pace myself.

Use ThrottleStop 9.7.2. Some users found a bug that sometimes can lock the CPU to a low speed when MMIO Lock was checked in ThrottleStop 9.7. I rewrote some code in the MMIO Lock section to fix this problem. No complaints so far.

I set all of the P cores to the 52 multiplier. Lowering all of the turbo groups to 52 in the FIVR window helps prevent the voltage from spiking to much higher values.

CINEBENCH R23 I got a score of 35,106 points in 10 minute test

35K is a solid result during the 10 minute test. The Vector series along with pretty much all laptops with 14900HX processors are limited by their cooling. These CPUs can consume huge amounts of power if you remove all of the various power and current limits. Bouncing off the 100°C thermal throttling limit is the new normal when fully loaded. Anyone that moves to the Arctic can start setting records.

My best Cinebench score so far is during a single R23 run. I am waiting for some cooler outdoor air next week to help the cause.

 

[eniva]

175W is not enough to run Cinebench at full speed. I had to set IMON Slope in the BIOS to 50 to get around any power limit throttling problems. The only throttling I get now is temperature related.

By changing IMON Slope to 50 I see that PKG Power goes from 161W at full power to only displaying 86.5W.
Is this normal? Is there any risk of putting more power into the processor and it burning out?

Do you use MSI Center? I use it for fan control. I am now seeing two TDP sliders in MSI Center. PL1 is max 140W and PL2 is max 175W. These limits are EC power limits so they cannot be controlled by using ThrottleStop. IMON Slope adjustment was the only way I found to get around this limitation.

I don't use MSI Center, I did a clean install of Windows because I had too many problems and many of them were caused by MSI Center, something made ThrottleStop angry, since it is not installed I no longer receive errors of pl1 and pl2 in red.
The fan control seems to be working fine without the application

I set all of the P cores to the 52 multiplier. Lowering all of the turbo groups to 52 in the FIVR window helps prevent the voltage from spiking to much higher values.

I used the Valour549 tutorial and the truth is that those p core values work well for me.
What I'm looking for is to lower temperatures to play for long hours without temperature problems or having the fan at maximum operation.

For now, what confuses me the most is the BIOS, there are many options that I still don't know what they do or if they are limiting the ThrottleStop functions, I have to continue investigating.
I will continue doing performance tests and I will post them here to compare with colleagues who have similar equipment to help.

Greetings and thank you very much.

 

[ProgUn1corn]

By changing IMON Slope to 50 I see that PKG Power goes from 161W at full power to only displaying 86.5W.
Is this normal? Is there any risk of putting more power into the processor and it burning out?

Changing this basically means your system reads CPU power in half, it's 50/100 so 1/2. It only changes the readout number, if you don't do other things, then it's just that; but most people do this due to EC power limits under CPU+GPU combined load, or shitty user scenarios that literally every laptop brand has.

For example, if I have a cooler like IETS GT500 that uses a foam to push air into your laptop heavily, then maybe my laptop can do more than the default power limits. Let's just say a laptop can do 60w+140w CPU+GPU combined load, and that's written in EC so in normal ways no matter how you unlock the CPU power, when GPU is using power, your CPU is gonna limited by EC to achieve that 200w total. But with this IMON Slope, now your system reads your CPU power half as it would be, it becomes 30w+140w. Now the system can push the readout to 60w+140w to achieve 200w total limit, but actually your CPU is running at 120w so it will actually become a 120w+140w load. (although this is very unlikely on air-cooled laptop without modification, CPU gets hot very quickly after like 100w due to the die size, so most people probably won't use a value like 50. HIgh power like MSI comes from GPU power.) This won't hurt your either, your CPU will just throttle all the time to protect itself from being overheat, since it's actually running at double the wattage.

Another example, where those laptop brands' shitty user scenario limits fan control. Let's just say your MSI, I'm using MSI Raider as well. The fully unlocked mode has 250w with incredibly loud fans even the temps are under control (like below 70c on GPU), and this is written in EC so you can't change. The balanced mode has moderate fan noise (also written in EC you can't change), but a much lower power target of 200w. In this use case, you can adjust IMON Slope to actually use 250w of power while telling the system you are using 200w, and it will not blast fans to 6000RPM all the time. This is the example you may burn yourself if you go too far, like use Silent Mode but push your power to 300w so the fans will not spin and it's a hot mess. But I wouldn't do this since I'm OK with the fan noise and I don't want to use that shitty center at all to fight with my mighty Throttlestop

Back to the specific case here, MSI doesn't limit your CPU to 150w of power, in fact, if you undervolt more, you can just use like 140w or 130w of power, but it doesn't go beyond that. Mine caps at about 147w if undervolted heavily. It's because the ICCMax is low, like around 170A where it's much lower than it should be. Low ICCMax limits the power output, thus you get a limit of 150w or 140w while constantly hitting EDP Others. Changing your IMON Slope to 50 just make the readout to 80w, but it can't go higher because the current limit is the culprit here.

 

[eniva]

You can update the microcode to version 0x12B by using this method.

Regarding the update, something is not right with that update. After the update, I always had PL2 yellow and then red, no matter what combination I put in, I always ended up with PL2 red just by starting a game. When I went back to the original version with the same parameters, I no longer had the PL2 error.

That update is not right for the laptop or for throttlestop.

Use ThrottleStop 9.7.2. Some users found a bug that sometimes can lock the CPU to a low speed when MMIO Lock was checked in ThrottleStop 9.7. I rewrote some code in the MMIO Lock section to fix this problem. No complaints so far.

I set all of the P cores to the 52 multiplier. Lowering all of the turbo groups to 52 in the FIVR window helps prevent the voltage from spiking to much higher values.

Maybe it's a coincidence, but when using the latest version it crashed on x42, it didn't pay attention to the settings I set, I had to reset the BIOS and it was fixed.

Changing this basically means your system reads CPU power in half, it's 50/100 so 1/2. It only changes the readout number, if you don't do other things, then it's just that; but most people do this due to EC power limits under CPU+GPU combined load, or shitty user scenarios that literally every laptop brand has.

For example, if I have a cooler like IETS GT500 that uses a foam to push air into your laptop heavily, then maybe my laptop can do more than the default power limits. Let's just say a laptop can do 60w+140w CPU+GPU combined load, and that's written in EC so in normal ways no matter how you unlock the CPU power, when GPU is using power, your CPU is gonna limited by EC to achieve that 200w total. But with this IMON Slope, now your system reads your CPU power half as it would be, it becomes 30w+140w. Now the system can push the readout to 60w+140w to achieve 200w total limit, but actually your CPU is running at 120w so it will actually become a 120w+140w load. (although this is very unlikely on air-cooled laptop without modification, CPU gets hot very quickly after like 100w due to the die size, so most people probably won't use a value like 50. HIgh power like MSI comes from GPU power.) This won't hurt your either, your CPU will just throttle all the time to protect itself from being overheat, since it's actually running at double the wattage.

Another example, where those laptop brands' shitty user scenario limits fan control. Let's just say your MSI, I'm using MSI Raider as well. The fully unlocked mode has 250w with incredibly loud fans even the temps are under control (like below 70c on GPU), and this is written in EC so you can't change. The balanced mode has moderate fan noise (also written in EC you can't change), but a much lower power target of 200w. In this use case, you can adjust IMON Slope to actually use 250w of power while telling the system you are using 200w, and it will not blast fans to 6000RPM all the time. This is the example you may burn yourself if you go too far, like use Silent Mode but push your power to 300w so the fans will not spin and it's a hot mess. But I wouldn't do this since I'm OK with the fan noise and I don't want to use that shitty center at all to fight with my mighty Throttlestop

Back to the specific case here, MSI doesn't limit your CPU to 150w of power, in fact, if you undervolt more, you can just use like 140w or 130w of power, but it doesn't go beyond that. Mine caps at about 147w if undervolted heavily. It's because the ICCMax is low, like around 170A where it's much lower than it should be. Low ICCMax limits the power output, thus you get a limit of 150w or 140w while constantly hitting EDP Others. Changing your IMON Slope to 50 just make the readout to 80w, but it can't go higher because the current limit is the culprit here.

Wow, thanks for the explanation, everything is clearer now. In my case I don't need to use it since I'm always below the limit to have good temperatures so there are no conflicts between temperatures and fans.

 

[unclewebb]

That update is not right for the laptop

Microcode updates are released by Intel. They are not laptop specific. My 14900HX Vector runs about the same with the original microcode 0x116 or with the updated microcode 0x12B.

After the update, I always had PL2 yellow and then red, no matter what combination I put in, I always ended up with PL2 red just by starting a game.

I noticed when using MSI Center Gaming mode that it set both PL1 and PL2 for the EC to only 55 Watts. That will cause a lot of CPU power limit throttling. These EC power limits cannot be controlled by using ThrottleStop. I used MSI Center to set the EC power limits to the max, PL1=140W and PL2=175W. On top of that I also set IMON Slope to 50 in the BIOS so these power limits are now more like PL1=280W and PL2=350W. I no longer have any power limit throttling problems even when running Cinebench with the full 52 multiplier. Setting IMON Slope to 75 should be a good compromise for most users.

The reason I tried using microcode 0x12B is because of the general internet fear that the early microcode versions can cause the 13th and 14th Gen CPUs to degrade and fail prematurely. It will probably be a year or two before anyone knows for sure if using the early microcode versions like 0x116 is a big problem or not for the mobile HX CPUs.

Using microcode 0x12B gives me that feeling that I am playing it safe. Obviously not too safe.
The IMON Slope trick allows me to push over 250W through the CPU during a good Cinebench run.

 

[eniva]

Microcode updates are released by Intel. They are not laptop specific. My 14900HX Vector runs about the same with the original microcode 0x116 or with the updated microcode 0x12B.


I noticed when using MSI Center Gaming mode that it set both PL1 and PL2 for the EC to only 55 Watts. That will cause a lot of CPU power limit throttling. These EC power limits cannot be controlled by using ThrottleStop. I used MSI Center to set the EC power limits to the max, PL1=140W and PL2=175W. On top of that I also set IMON Slope to 50 in the BIOS so these power limits are now more like PL1=280W and PL2=350W. I no longer have any power limit throttling problems even when running Cinebench with the full 52 multiplier. Setting IMON Slope to 75 should be a good compromise for most users.

The reason I tried using microcode 0x12B is because of the general internet fear that the early microcode versions can cause the 13th and 14th Gen CPUs to degrade and fail prematurely. It will probably be a year or two before anyone knows for sure if using the early microcode versions like 0x116 is a big problem or not for the mobile HX CPUs.

Using microcode 0x12B gives me that feeling that I am playing it safe. Obviously not too safe.
The IMON Slope trick allows me to push over 250W through the CPU during a good Cinebench run.

Thank you very much to both of you for all the information, it is helping me a lot to continue trying new settings.

Regarding the EC and pl2 limits, something strange is happening to me, since I updated to 0x12B even though I restored the original version I still get problems with pl2 in red when I didn't have them before.

Starting a game after a few seconds I get yellow pl2 and after a short while it flashes red, in PKG Power it shows me a maximum of 107.4W, I used the msi center as you indicated to establish PL1=140W and PL2=175W but it is still the same, I don't know exactly what could have happened but it is not paying attention to the options I am putting.

When I did a clean installation of Windows by just installing drivers and ThrottleStop I didn't have this problem, I don't know very well what could be causing this conflict mmm, maybe some update of Windows 24H2 or some Intel driver?

Greetings and thank you very much.

 

[unclewebb]

I don't know exactly what could have happened

I did not have any power limit throttling issues when I first got my Vector. At some point, something got updated. I have not been able to figure out what got updated. Power limit throttling at much lower power values just magically started happening.

MSI Center was originally installed when I got my laptop but I do not know what version of MSI Center was installed. I think it was an older version because originally, I do not remember seeing a TDP tab in MSI Center to adjust the EC power limits. I first noticed this new tab after I started having power limit throttling problems. Originally there did not seem to be any EC power limits.

I gave up trying to figure out what got updated and what caused things to change. Updating to microcode 0x12B and then uninstalling 0x12B should have put everything back to how it was but that did not fix the new power limit throttling problem. The only fix that has worked for me was setting IMON Slope to 50 in the BIOS.

 

[pavko222]

Hi uncle. I don't know if this is directly related to what you are dealing with here, but I don't know where else to ask, and I've been following you for a long time and I know you are smart. After updating the microcode to 0x12B, the fan speed control in Lenovo Toolkit stopped working and I found out that I can't downgrade to an older BIOS version, even though it was possible until recently. Do you have any idea how to get rid of the BIOS protection?

 

[unclewebb]

@pavko222

This thread topic is MSI Vector 17. Your Lenovo issues are completely off topic. Avoid thread crapping. Just send me a message if you want to contact me.

Do you have any idea how to get rid of the BIOS protection?

No I do not.

 

[eniva]

Hi uncle. I don't know if this is directly related to what you are dealing with here, but I don't know where else to ask, and I've been following you for a long time and I know you are smart. After updating the microcode to 0x12B, the fan speed control in Lenovo Toolkit stopped working and I found out that I can't downgrade to an older BIOS version, even though it was possible until recently. Do you have any idea how to get rid of the BIOS protection?

Maybe you could try to update from BIOS itself without using Lenovo software.

I did not have any power limit throttling issues when I first got my Vector. At some point, something got updated. I have not been able to figure out what got updated. Power limit throttling at much lower power values just magically started happening.

MSI Center was originally installed when I got my laptop but I do not know what version of MSI Center was installed. I think it was an older version because originally, I do not remember seeing a TDP tab in MSI Center to adjust the EC power limits. I first noticed this new tab after I started having power limit throttling problems. Originally there did not seem to be any EC power limits.

I gave up trying to figure out what got updated and what caused things to change. Updating to microcode 0x12B and then uninstalling 0x12B should have put everything back to how it was but that did not fix the new power limit throttling problem. The only fix that has worked for me was setting IMON Slope to 50 in the BIOS.

It is certainly something strange, I could try to go back to a previous point in Windows and see what happens.

For now I solved it by setting IMON Slope to 10, my limitation starts when it consumes more than 91W and as I want to limit the use of current to obtain better temperatures with that value I can now get it to not give me pl1 and pl2 errors.

Greetings.

 

[unclewebb]

@eniva

Setting MSI Center - User Scenario to Manual adds a TDP slider to MSI Center. This slider can limit the maximum EC power limits.

PL1 = 140W
PL2 = 175W

Switching MSI Center - User Scenario to Extreme Performance deletes the MSI Center TDP tab and the PL1 and PL2 EC power limit sliders disappear. There is no more power limit throttling even with IMON Slope set back to its default value, 100. Power limit throttling starts at 220W which is the default value for PL1 and PL2. It should be possible to use ThrottleStop to increase the 220W power limit further but realistically, that is only going to be necessary when Cinebench testing in an igloo or walk in freezer.

I think MSI Center can interact with the BIOS. I also think parts of MSI Center can run in the background even when you do not start MSI Center. It can get a little confusing when playing with the advanced BIOS settings, ThrottleStop's power limit settings and the different User Scenarios within MSI Center.

This testing was done while using microcode 0x116. Hopefully microcode update 0x12B does not change anything.

 

[pavko222]

@pavko222

Téma tohoto vlákna je MSI Vector 17. Vaše problémy s Lenovo jsou zcela mimo téma. Vyvarujte se praskání nití. Stačí mi poslat zprávu, pokud mě chcete kontaktovat.


Ne, nemám.

Sorry

 

[eniva]

@eniva

Setting MSI Center - User Scenario to Manual adds a TDP slider to MSI Center. This slider can limit the maximum EC power limits.

PL1 = 140W
PL2 = 175W

Switching MSI Center - User Scenario to Extreme Performance deletes the MSI Center TDP tab and the PL1 and PL2 EC power limit sliders disappear. There is no more power limit throttling even with IMON Slope set back to its default value, 100. Power limit throttling starts at 220W which is the default value for PL1 and PL2. It should be possible to use ThrottleStop to increase the 220W power limit further but realistically, that is only going to be necessary when Cinebench testing in an igloo or walk in freezer.

I think MSI Center can interact with the BIOS. I also think parts of MSI Center can run in the background even when you do not start MSI Center. It can get a little confusing when playing with the advanced BIOS settings, ThrottleStop's power limit settings and the different User Scenarios within MSI Center.

This testing was done while using microcode 0x116. Hopefully microcode update 0x12B does not change anything.

It would be great to know how MSI Center modifies the EC values. It would open up many possibilities for throttlestop, but I'm afraid that won't be possible without using reverse engineering to find out how it works and how it communicates with the BIOS.

For now, we'll have to make do with the options it allows us with the limitations we have.

Regardless of all this, I just have to thank you for the great program you created and for the support you give to all users.

Greetings and thank you very much.

 

[eniva]

Hello everyone,
here we continue to investigate to get more out of our PCs, recently I have been reading that Intel 13/14th generations are suffering from vast degradation and instability problems.

Reviewing this link 13/14th gen "Intel baseline" I found the part of "UNDERVOLTING METHOD ONE: BASIC AC LOAD LINE" interesting to touch on the part of ac load line to regulate power and instability problems, the truth is I tried to do it as Intel mentions and it seems to work well but it is also true that the current ThrottleStop configuration does not work, you have to lower the undervoltage a lot for the PC to be stable.

Has anyone tried to play with the ac load line + ThrottleStop option??

I'm also waiting for the Honeywell PTM7950 thermal pads to arrive to see if I can improve the temperatures, as they seem too high to me even though the PC has been in use for 2 months.

I'll keep you posted on how everything goes.

 

[unclewebb]

ac load line

I played around with AC / DC loadline for a day or two but decided that with a fully unlocked HX CPU, it was really not necessary to adjust the loadline values.

After learning yesterday that the Intel GPU IccMax setting in ThrottleStop works like a master IccMax control, I have finally been able to run Cinebench R23 at default clocks with zero throttling. My room temp is 23°C so I headed outside to the great outdoors for some 8°C spring air. Just what a 14900HX needs.

PL1 = PL2 = 260W
PL4 = 1023
IccMax = 511.75 ( CPU Core, P Cache, Intel GPU, iGPU UnSlice )
Undervolt = -159.2 mV ( CPU Core, CPU P Cache )
Undervolt = -99.6 mV ( Intel GPU, iGPU Unslice )
V/F Point 1 = 150 ( CPU Core, CPU P Cache )
All Turbo Ratio Groups
P Core = 52, E Core = 41
Windows 11 - 23H2
Microcode = 0x116

EDP Other always lights up yellow under the RING column but this does not seem to hurt performance. Power consumption peaked at 230W and the CPU temperature reached 94°C. Zero thermal throttling or power limit throttling or current limit throttling. A single Cinebench R23 run was good for a score of 38483. The CPU was not multiplier overclocked. The P cores ran at a steady 52X and the E cores ran at 41X.

The log file shows a ThrottleStop bug. For some reason when fully loaded the peak E core multiplier (41.00) was recorded instead of the peak P core multiplier (52.00). I plan to report both the P core and E core multipliers separately in some future version of ThrottleStop to avoid any confusion. No throttling flags were shown in the log file.

   DATE       TIME    MULTI   C0%   CKMOD  BAT_mW  TEMP   NVIDIA GPU     VID   POWER
2025-02-25  14:09:50  52.00    0.9  100.0       0   36       0     0   1.1735    3.2
2025-02-25  14:09:51  52.00    0.9  100.0       0   36       0     0   1.1791    3.1
2025-02-25  14:09:52  52.00    0.9  100.0       0   36       0     0   1.1642    3.0
2025-02-25  14:09:53  52.00    0.8  100.0       0   43       0     0   1.2157    3.4
2025-02-25  14:09:54  51.96    6.6  100.0       0   46       0     0   1.2261   22.5
2025-02-25  14:09:55  51.95   24.9  100.0       0   48       0     0   1.3129   45.5
2025-02-25  14:09:56  51.92   46.6  100.0       0   74       0     0   1.2369   94.3
2025-02-25  14:09:59  52.00   95.4  100.0       0   82       0     0   1.2396  214.3
2025-02-25  14:10:00  41.00  100.0  100.0       0   85       0     0   1.2335  227.4
2025-02-25  14:10:01  41.00  100.0  100.0       0   85       0     0   1.2351  226.8
2025-02-25  14:10:03  41.00  100.0  100.0       0   87       0     0   1.2546  228.3
2025-02-25  14:10:04  41.00  100.0  100.0       0   87       0     0   1.2513  228.2
2025-02-25  14:10:06  41.00  100.0  100.0       0   87       0     0   1.2328  227.6
2025-02-25  14:10:07  41.00  100.0  100.0       0   88       0     0   1.2388  227.6
2025-02-25  14:10:09  41.00  100.0  100.0       0   90       0     0   1.2383  227.7
2025-02-25  14:10:10  41.00  100.0  100.0       0   90       0     0   1.2366  229.3
2025-02-25  14:10:11  41.00  100.0  100.0       0   91       0     0   1.2524  230.0
2025-02-25  14:10:13  41.00  100.0  100.0       0   94       0     0   1.2368  229.8
2025-02-25  14:10:14  41.00  100.0  100.0       0   91       0     0   1.2380  230.0
2025-02-25  14:10:15  41.00  100.0  100.0       0   94       0     0   1.2628  229.9
2025-02-25  14:10:16  52.00  100.0  100.0       0   92       0     0   1.2600  229.0
2025-02-25  14:10:16  52.00   97.2  100.0       0   91       0     0   1.2593  229.7
2025-02-25  14:10:16  41.00   33.1  100.0       0   64       0     0   1.2494   89.5
2025-02-25  14:10:17  52.00    1.6  100.0       0   47       0     0   1.1547    5.8
2025-02-25  14:10:18  52.00    0.6  100.0       0   46       0     0   1.1843    2.7
2025-02-25  14:10:19  52.00    0.7  100.0       0   45       0     0   1.1663    2.8
2025-02-25  14:10:20  52.00    0.6  100.0       0   44       0     0   1.1615    2.8
2025-02-25  14:10:21  52.00    0.6  100.0       0   43       0     0   1.1536    2.7
2025-02-25  14:10:22  52.00    0.6  100.0       0   43       0     0   1.1731    2.8
2025-02-25  14:10:23  52.00    0.7  100.0       0   43       0     0   1.1735    2.9
2025-02-25  14:10:24  52.00    0.6  100.0       0   42       0     0   1.1539    2.7

Very happy with the MSI Vector 17. Really easy to get some excellent results from it.

 

[eniva]

Very happy with the MSI Vector 17. Really easy to get some excellent results from it.

So we have the same pc.

I just installed your configuration and I can't get rid of the core and GPU limits, and it shows me a maximum consumption of 180.7W, I can't get it to increase any further.

Could you share your complete Throttlestop configuration to see if I have something different than yours?

Besides that, what exactly do you touch in the BIOS? I've been enabling or disabling it following several tutorials, but I'd like to know what you touched to make it the same as yours and see if I get the same results.

I'm especially interested in seeing if the temperatures are similar to yours before opening the PC to change the thermal paste.

Another thing, I just had an MSI center update and they removed the option to control the TDP.

Microcode = 0x116

did you notice anything strange with the 12B??

A cordial greeting.

 

[unclewebb]

MSI center update

I am using the MSI Center Extreme Performance setting. There is no TDP slider in MSI Center when using Extreme Performance. That is a good thing. The MSI TDP slider seems to adjust the EC power limits. The Extreme Performance setting probably sets the EC power limits to zero so they are not used. That allows the ThrottleStop MSR and MMIO power limits to be in full control of the CPU.

So we have the same pc.

Almost the same. My Vector 17 is A14VGG

Besides that, what exactly do you touch in the BIOS?

To be honest, I have no idea. There are 1001 things you can adjust in the MSI advanced BIOS. I have memory issues and I never write down anything. I think almost everything that I adjusted in the BIOS when testing does not need to be adjusted. I will have a second look in the BIOS when I have more time. I sort of remember randomly increasing some current limits to the max but doing this did not seem to make any difference.

When I removed MSI Center, I was also seeing power limit throttling right at 180W. After installing MSI Center and switching to the Extreme Performance setting, now I can go up to 230W or probably higher with zero power limit throttling. You might have to reboot after installing MSI Center and setting it to Extreme. This might be necessary to reset the EC power limits. I am using MSI Center 2.0.48.0. I turned off the "Always update" feature. When something is working this good, there is no need to change anything.

12B

Someone told me he had trouble with microcode 12B so I went back to 116 for the moment. I do not think it makes any significant difference. I will try switching back to 12B at some point. I think performance will be more or less the same with either microcode. Intel has also released a 12C microcode version now.

The log file I posted shows VID is only about 1.25 V when stress testing at 230W and it drops down to about 1.15 V when lightly loaded. Voltages like that are not going to hurt anything during long term use. I think most of the issues with 13th and 14th Gen desktop CPUs failing is because the VID voltage some desktop motherboards were using was up over 1.50 V. I only use the 52 multiplier so that helps keep the voltage at a reasonable level.

Here is a screenshot of my FIVR settings. I have already shared all of the values I use. This screenshot is at -150 mV for the core and the P cache. This is normally what I use. I did use -160 mV for both when doing my test above. -160 mV might be living on the edge of stability for day to day use. I have had zero issues at -150 mV.

 

[eniva]

To be honest, I have no idea. There are 1001 things you can adjust in the MSI advanced BIOS. I have memory issues and I never write down anything. I think almost everything that I adjusted in the BIOS when testing does not need to be adjusted. I will have a second look in the BIOS when I have more time. I sort of remember randomly increasing some current limits to the max but doing this did not seem to make any difference.

When I removed MSI Center, I was also seeing power limit throttling right at 180W. After installing MSI Center and switching to the Extreme Performance setting, now I can go up to 230W or probably higher with zero power limit throttling. You might have to reboot after installing MSI Center and setting it to Extreme. This might be necessary to reset the EC power limits. I am using MSI Center 2.0.48.0. I turned off the "Always update" feature. When something is working this good, there is no need to change anything.

Reinstall the same version you have in extreme mode and it's at 200.3W and with your same settings you get the following (PL2 in red just by launching Cinebench or some demanding game).

I also attach what I've changed in bios.

Another thing, I found that MSI Afterburner has some conflict with ThrottleStop, when it's running you get "EDP OTHER" under GPU all the time and I think even under core, although I'm not 100% sure about that.

 

[unclewebb]

MSI Afterburner has some conflict with ThrottleStop

I do not use MSI Afterburner.

MSI Center 2.0.48.0.

Are your MSR power limits set to 260W like my screenshot shows and is MMIO Lock checked?

Did you install the recent MSI Center update? I think the latest version is 2.0.50.0. That might have reduced the EC PL2 power limit to 200W. If the MSR and MMIO power limits are set correctly then it has to be the EC limit that is causing power limit throttling.

I know for a while I was having EC power limit throttling issues that ThrottleStop could not solve. Using the Extreme Performance setting in MSI Center 2.0.48.0 fixed all of my power limit throttling problems.

Next week I will take a pile of screenshots that show all of the BIOS settings that I am using. I think I have PL1 and PL2 set to the default 220W in the BIOS. After that I use ThrottleStop to boost both turbo power limits up to 260W. That allows Cinebench R23 to run at the full default 52P and 41E multipliers.

I am using BIOS version 90D for my A14VGG. There is a newer 90E version but no way am I ever going to update to that. It looks like MSI automatically removes any older BIOS versions from their website when a new version is released. It is not worth the risk for me to update to a newer BIOS version if that might block going back to an older version.

There is a 90F BIOS version available for the A14VIG. A lower EC PL2 power limit in the newer BIOS versions could be what is limiting your computer. The newer BIOS versions could also be enforcing a much lower EC PL1 turbo power limit.

 

[eniva]

Are your MSR power limits set to 260W like my screenshot shows and is MMIO Lock checked?

If everything is the same except that on another screen that you did not put it is different (speed shift EPP, etc.)

Did you install the recent MSI Center update? I think the latest version is 2.0.50.0. That might have reduced the EC PL2 power limit to 200W. If the MSR and MMIO power limits are set correctly then it has to be the EC limit that is causing power limit throttling.

I know for a while I was having EC power limit throttling issues that ThrottleStop could not solve. Using the Extreme Performance setting in MSI Center 2.0.48.0 fixed all of my power limit throttling problems.

I reinstalled the version you are using, I will try to restore all the msi and bios settings to see if something is causing a conflict

I am using BIOS version 90D for my A14VGG. There is a newer 90E version but no way am I ever going to update to that. It looks like MSI automatically removes any older BIOS versions from their website when a new version is released. It is not worth the risk for me to update to a newer BIOS version if that might block going back to an older version.

There is a 90F BIOS version available for the A14VIG. A lower EC PL2 power limit in the newer BIOS versions could be what is limiting your computer. The newer BIOS versions could also be enforcing a much lower EC PL1 turbo power limit.

A couple of days ago I installed the E17S1IMS.90F version and at first I didn't notice anything strange, I will try to do several tests to see if this version is the cause or if it is another option, so we can test whether the 90F is valid or not.

Next week I will take a pile of screenshots that show all of the BIOS settings that I am using. I think I have PL1 and PL2 set to the default 220W in the BIOS. After that I use ThrottleStop to boost both turbo power limits up to 260W. That allows Cinebench R23 to run at the full default 52P and 41E multipliers.

I would be very grateful if you could help me see if the cause is a bad BIOS configuration or something else.


One question, in your tests to get it to show 230W of consumption, aren't you using the IMON Slope option?

Kind regards.


Ok, I got it working, I reset the BIOS settings, I also reset the settings in msi center and deleted ThrottleStop.ini and started from scratch and now it lets me go up to 260W.

I was configuring parameter by parameter and launching Cinebench and at some moments it would get limited again to less than 200W, I would wait a bit and it would let me again and that's when I noticed that the start button changed the light from white to orange, in white there was no problem with limits and orange did.

Searching on the internet I saw that white is when it uses the integrated graphics in the cpu and orange is when the RTX and that's when the idea occurred to me, I went to msi center and put it in integrated graphics mode and now it lets me launch Cinebench without power limits.

The problem with this is that the RTX is cancelled and that is not valid, I suppose that the power requested by the graphics card has to be subtracted from the CPU and perhaps that is the problem of not letting me go over 200W, my graphics card is the RTX 4090.