Optimized ThrottleStop PL Settings for Intel i7 11800H

[Syndik]

Hello!

I have had a laptop with an intel i7 11800H + NVIDIA RTX 3070 laptop GPU for a bit over 3 years now and it always ran completely fine for all my gaming activities (which is what I mostly use it for).
Although recently, I found out my gaming performance had crashed down drastically and I was not sure why. I ultimately found out that my CPU was stuck running at maximum base speed clock even when under extremely heavy loads (tested with Cinebench r24 and cores were locked at base speed from the very beginning, which is 2.3GHZ).

Now, yesterday evening after some research, I came across threads here about the Power Limits + Turbo Power Limits modifiers within Throttlestop. I tried locking the MRS / MMIO Power Limits and as if magically, my CPU started reaching higher clock speeds again, even when just in the desktop. So I think this may have been the problem.

The reason I am opening this thread is to kindly ask for your input on what are the best and most optimal settings I can configure to make sure my processor has the best possible performance, making sure thermal throttling is not too big a factor. Another reason why I am asking is, when first going into the TPL screen, PL1 and PL2 Limits were set at 120W by default, with a Turbo Boost timer of 96 seconds! I thought this can't be right and will for sure lead to issues in the future so I wanted an expert's opinion before trying to configure the most optimal settings.

I do not have printscreens, as I am in my work laptop right now, but I will have them later when I switch over to my personal.

Thank you very much in advance!

 

[ChemicalDruid]

Check this out for general advice.

There was also a similar scenario discussed two years ago:

Throttling on an i7 11800h | TechPowerUp Forums

 

[Syndik]

Check this out for general advice.

There was also a similar scenario discussed two years ago:

Throttling on an i7 11800h | TechPowerUp Forums

Thank you Chemical Druid! Great article there, yes In regards to those general definitions, that is indeed useful for me to understand a bit better what is going on in there!
As for the post, yep, saw that one and it was the post I originally based myself on to do that bit of troubleshooting and configuration in TS!

Although, I am still not sure as to what the best PL settings are for my CPU... I think 120W and 98 seconds Turbo Boost time is really a lot and I don't know if by locking MMIO on those values, I can get Thermal Throttling happening a lot...Can I?
That is kind of the type of info I am looking for. I know the TDP-up Config for my CPU is 45W, which is very low, but I have seen unclewebb say that 80W is already a high value for most rigs and Turbo Boost timer should be at 4 seconds...

Essentially, I would like to understand what are the best PL1 and PL2 settings for me to choose before I lock MMIO, in order to have the best Performance / Clock speed to Thermal ratio!

NOTE: My TS does not allow me to touch on any voltages whatsoever, so I am guessing my BIOS has all those tightly locked down. My FIVR screen is no more than a snapshot, essentially.

Many thanks again and look forward to your feedback!

EDIT: These were the instructions from unclewebb that I performed (except for the FIVR stuff) and that fixed my CPU core clock issue

" You have the MMIO PL1 power limit set to 45W. That means the MSR PL1 power limit that you have set to 75W will be ignored. The lowest power limit wins control of the CPU.

To fix this problem, it is best to check the MMIO Lock box. Intel CPUs do not need multiple sets of power limits.

In the Turbo Power Limits window, clear the Disable Power Limit Control box. Clearing this box tells ThrottleStop that you want ThrottleStop to monitor and maintain your MSR power limits.

Also check the Speed Shift box in the Turbo Power Limits Window.

Some laptops are locked internally to 45W. After you make those changes, if you are still being power limit throttled to 45W, there is nothing you can do about it.

Check the Unlock Adjustable Voltage box in the FIVR window for both the CPU Core and the Cache. This tells ThrottleStop to maintain your voltages.

In the FIVR window, I think you need to check the Overclock box if you want to use the 43 multiplier when 8 cores are active. ThrottleStop shows that the default value for this setting is 42. To go higher, that is considered overclocking. "

Quick Update, I can now show you my settings on TS all up: See attachments
Would be wonderful if you could help me make a bit more sense of it now! Cheers

Also, now, my CPU seems to be running at full speed at all times. Even on Idle (just on the desktop or as I write this post) 4GHz+most of the time, then dropping to 1.1GHz for a second, some other a bit lower values on some cores, some others a bit higher on other cores, then right back up to 4GHz+. Seems erratic, no? Or is this normal and wanted behaviour?

There are some bottlenecks there as I show in the Limits page, how can I best address those?

Also adding HWMonitor metrics

Cheers!

 

[Syndik]

I know this was a lot of text but it would really help me understand these things a lot better and find the right configs for my setup

Thank you!

 

[unclewebb]

Also, now, my CPU seems to be running at full speed at all times.

The Windows Balanced power plan allows the CPU to slow down when it is lightly loaded. The CPU will not slow down if it has a lot of background tasks that need to be completed. The screenshot you posted shows high C0% which means the CPU is busy. Most people have too much stuff running in the background on their computers. Look at the Task Manager Details tab to find out what is running in the background. Get rid of anything that you do not need. My computer tends to show very low C0% activity when idle because I am OCD about stopping and uninstalling any useless crap running on my computer. Average C0% is only about 0.1% with Google Chrome open.

what are the best PL1 and PL2 settings for me

No one can tell you what the best settings for your computer should be. It is up to you to do some testing. If your computer runs too hot, lower the MSR turbo power limits. If your max temperatures are OK and you want more performance, increase the MSR turbo power limits. I would always check the MMIO Lock box. That way you will only need to adjust the MSR turbo power limits.

Setting PL1 to 60W and PL2 to 80W looks about right for your computer. For most laptops with marginal cooling, setting the turbo time limit to about 8 seconds is reasonable. From here you can make small adjustments up or down or however you like.

There are some bottlenecks there as I show in the Limits page

Limit Reasons is just telling you why your CPU is throttling. It is normal for laptops with an 11800H to throttle. If you increase the turbo power limits, that might fix the PL1 and PL2 power limit throttling but your CPU will run hotter so you will end up with THERMAL throttling instead. Adjust the power limits until you get the right compromise between power limit throttling and thermal throttling.

There is usually no magic setting that will result in max speed with zero throttling. You need a well cooled desktop computer to achieve that goal and even then, you will probably still be living on the edge of either thermal throttling or some other type of throttling. Intel CPUs run hot, hot, hot.

Does the top middle of the FIVR window show the word Locked? If the BIOS has locked out the FIVR then you cannot adjust any voltages. Too bad. Post a FIVR screenshot if you are not sure.

 

[ChemicalDruid]

@Syndik
If undervolting is possible in your case, the following post should also be relevant:

Did I do everything correctly? (Acer Nitro 5, i7 11800H undervolt) | TechPowerUp Forums

 

[Syndik]

The Windows Balanced power plan allows the CPU to slow down when it is lightly loaded. The CPU will not slow down if it has a lot of background tasks that need to be completed. The screenshot you posted shows high C0% which means the CPU is busy. Most people have too much stuff running in the background on their computers. Look at the Task Manager Details tab to find out what is running in the background. Get rid of anything that you do not need. My computer tends to show very low C0% activity when idle because I am OCD about stopping and uninstalling any useless crap running on my computer. Average C0% is only about 0.1% with Google Chrome open.

View attachment 362461


No one can tell you what the best settings for your computer should be. It is up to you to do some testing. If your computer runs too hot, lower the MSR turbo power limits. If your max temperatures are OK and you want more performance, increase the MSR turbo power limits. I would always check the MMIO Lock box. That way you will only need to adjust the MSR turbo power limits.

Setting PL1 to 60W and PL2 to 80W looks about right for your computer. For most laptops with marginal cooling, setting the turbo time limit to about 8 seconds is reasonable. From here you can make small adjustments up or down or however you like.


Limit Reasons is just telling you why your CPU is throttling. It is normal for laptops with an 11800H to throttle. If you increase the turbo power limits, that might fix the PL1 and PL2 power limit throttling but your CPU will run hotter so you will end up with THERMAL throttling instead. Adjust the power limits until you get the right compromise between power limit throttling and thermal throttling.

There is usually no magic setting that will result in max speed with zero throttling. You need a well cooled desktop computer to achieve that goal and even then, you will probably still be living on the edge of either thermal throttling or some other type of throttling. Intel CPUs run hot, hot, hot.

Does the top middle of the FIVR window show the word Locked? If the BIOS has locked out the FIVR then you cannot adjust any voltages. Too bad. Post a FIVR screenshot if you are not sure.

Hi! Thank you so much for getting back to me

Of course, makes total sense yeah, there is no magical setting I can configure, at this point I’m just trying to find the sweet spot between temps and performance!

I realized C0% is very high indeed yes, which is weird because I never have more tasks running than those I actually need…
I also go into task manager and try closing everything I don’t need running, but it doesn’t change much unfortunately…I don’t have almost anything installed in my pc apart from games, (3 to be precise) + Steam, HWMonitor, CCleaner and TS. I formatted my pc recently

I have been running some tests and trying out the different games I play with different MSR limits, I always end up getting thermal throttled hard regardless of the limits
For example my CPU reaches 90-95°C even at 30W PL1 and 45W PL2, because it boosts all the way up to 5+ GHz even with those power package values and I’m not sure why. Yesterday at some point it even reached 6.1GHz, 98°C in one of the cores and I had perfectly normal values for power…. What can be the cause for this?

Undervolting is, unfortunately, impossible for me yes…as you said unclewebb, FIVR shows locked in the middle so I can’t mess with those at all…

And VID reaches 1.2 Max regardless of my Turbo Power Limits

I’m a bit unsure of what to do because going lower than 30W seems very low to me and even then I feel like it would Thermal throttle

@Syndik
If undervolting is possible in your case, the following post should also be relevant:

Did I do everything correctly? (Acer Nitro 5, i7 11800H undervolt) | TechPowerUp Forums

Unfortunately I can’t do it, no… :/

 

[ChemicalDruid]

Unfortunately I can’t do it, no… :/

Consider looking into your BIOS settings in case you can unlock undervolting - you could be one setting change away from enabling it.

 

[Syndik]

Consider looking into your BIOS settings in case you can unlock undervolting - you could be one setting change away from enabling it.

I’ve done that yes, unfortunately I really can’t..
My laptop is from a company that builds bare bone pcs, I chose the parts and they built it, although the motherboard is on their side to chose, so the it’s a TongFang and it is extremely locked down, I can barely just change time and date in there…
I can also enable or disable virtualization, it is enabled by default, should I disable it, would that do anything?

 

[unclewebb]

should I disable it

Disable virtualization, boot up and post a screenshot of the ThrottleStop FIVR window.

 

[Syndik]

Disable virtualization, boot up and post a screenshot of the ThrottleStop FIVR window.

Got it!

All these were taken right after disabling Virtualization and booting my pc up. Only thing I did was change PL1 and PL2 to the values you suggested unclewebb
Also sending logs from the past two days, where I did most of the testing and played games, and the Task Manager CPU usage %. It is very low, does not justify that C0% in my opinion...

Sending screenshots:

Really appreciate all the help!

 

[Syndik]

Bumping the post for some help
Thanks!

 

[unclewebb]

Task Manager CPU usage %

The Task Manager calculates CPU Utilization. This is based on the base frequency of the processor. Many Intel mobile CPUs use a high percentage of turbo boost. That means you should ignore the Task Manager. The Utilization number the Task Manager displays is not the same as CPU Usage.

The ThrottleStop FIVR window shows that CPU voltage control is Locked out. There is nothing you can do about that unless you find a way to unlock your computer. Do a Google search for your laptop model. Maybe you will get lucky.

Your first log file shows lots of TEMP thermal throttling. The second log file shows lots of PL1 and PL2 power limit throttling at power values of only 15W, 20W, 25W or 30W. The limit seems to randomly vary. You either have some software on your computer that is randomly changing or your computer uses an embedded controller (EC) that is programmed to change the power limits for whatever reason it chooses. ThrottleStop cannot be used to solve EC power limit throttling problems. See if you can find and eliminate any manufacturer's control software that might be causing this power limit throttling issue.

 

[Syndik]

The Task Manager calculates CPU Utilization. This is based on the base frequency of the processor. Many Intel mobile CPUs use a high percentage of turbo boost. That means you should ignore the Task Manager. The Utilization number the Task Manager displays is not the same as CPU Usage.

The ThrottleStop FIVR window shows that CPU voltage control is Locked out. There is nothing you can do about that unless you find a way to unlock your computer. Do a Google search for your laptop model. Maybe you will get lucky.

Your first log file shows lots of TEMP thermal throttling. The second log file shows lots of PL1 and PL2 power limit throttling at power values of only 15W, 20W, 25W or 30W. The limit seems to randomly vary. You either have some software on your computer that is randomly changing or your computer uses an embedded controller (EC) that is programmed to change the power limits for whatever reason it chooses. ThrottleStop cannot be used to solve EC power limit throttling problems. See if you can find and eliminate any manufacturer's control software that might be causing this power limit throttling issue.

Thank you for the reply back and the clarifications!

In fact there is a pestering piece of software that does not even work properly and it came with the laptop. It’s called “Control Center” or in some instances I have seen it be called “Gaming Center” and it supposedly has some way of controlling CPU performance alongside Fan control.

The executable application simply does not work, when the application is installed, although, I can see it installed. I have no way to access it…

I have previously used Revo Uninstaller to remove it entirely but it seems to keep some kind of influence…
I believe some form of it is knit into the BIOS itself, because in there I have three “Operating modes” to choose from, being:

- Office Mode
- Gaming Mode
- Turbo Mode

I set it to Turbo mode and these screenshots were taken with Control Center uninstalled so I don’t really know what else could be messing with this…I have no other 3rd party apps that can manipulate CPU clocks installed…

 

[unclewebb]

You may be forced to keep Control Center installed. All I know is that the second log file shows lots of power limit throttling at very low power values. ThrottleStop has no control over this so something else is responsible. I do not know how the BIOS settings interact with the turbo power limits or how to solve the problem your computer has.

 

[Syndik]

Thank you for the help!
I will reach out to the the manufacturer support team so they can provide me with an updated version of the software and see if it makes it better...

Thank you again for all the help!

 

[Syndik]

You may be forced to keep Control Center installed. All I know is that the second log file shows lots of power limit throttling at very low power values. ThrottleStop has no control over this so something else is responsible. I do not know how the BIOS settings interact with the turbo power limits or how to solve the problem your computer has.

Bumping this thread with updates!

So I recently flashed the BIOS and was able to finally unlock voltages and the FIVR screen within Throttlestop!
I was super happy about this although when tweaking CPU core and Cache voltages I realized the table on the top right side of TS is not updating:

As you can see from the screen I added a -70.3mv undervolt to both core and cache, and this is not showing on the table for some reason so I fear it is not being applied...
I have disabled virtualization and deleted the .ini, nothing changed here, still don't see the changes... Anything else I should try?

Also couple of more basic questions:
Does the "turn on" button in the initial TS page do any difference?
And should I check the "Speed shift EPP" box?

Thank you!!

 

[unclewebb]

this is not showing on the table

Did you disable core isolation memory integrity?

I have disabled virtualization

Follow the links in my signature. You still have something virtualization related that is enabled. Post a screenshot of the entire Windows Features window if you cannot figure this out.

Run msinfo. That should tell you if virtualization is disabled or not.

You do not need to check the Speed Shift EPP box on the main screen. Leave this box clear so Windows can manage the EPP value. The Turn On / Turn Off button is optional for most recent computers when Speed Shift Technology (SST) is enabled.

 

[Syndik]

Did you disable core isolation memory integrity?


Follow the links in my signature. You still have something virtualization related that is enabled. Post a screenshot of the entire Windows Features window if you cannot figure this out.

Run msinfo. That should tell you if virtualization is disabled or not.

View attachment 363518

You do not need to check the Speed Shift EPP box on the main screen. Leave this box clear so Windows can manage the EPP value. The Turn On / Turn Off button is optional for most recent computers when Speed Shift Technology (SST) is enabled.

Thank you so much Unclewebb!

Disabling Memory Integrity and Microsoft Defender Application Guard did the trick, VBS is now fully disabled and I can now undervolt my cpu!

A question about disabling these Security features: Does it have a big impact over security of the device overall?
Is it worth the risk, essentially? Of course, I understand now it's a choice I have to make: Either undervolt, or have VBS... but would love to hear your experienced take on it!

Quick update on my Undervolting tests:

So, after undervolting at around -70mV (CPU Core and Cache, iGPU voltage left untouched) a very strange phenomenon happened.

My CPU temps went absolutely bonkers. While gaming at that undervolting, three of my cores went up to 100°C and ultimately I BSOD’d due to CPU overheating.
Maybe I messed something up with the Prochot value? Although it was red at 95°c the behavior was not aligned with that…
This confused me as undervolting is supposed to have the opposite effect…
PL1 and PL2 were at 60 and 70, Turbo timer at 4 seconds but this happened…

Performance is now good even if I don’t turn on TS, although I would like to try and squeeze out some more perf by lowering the temps…

What did I do wrong?

 

[shepal73976]

Did you disable core isolation memory integrity?


Follow the links in my signature. You still have something virtualization related that is enabled. Post a screenshot of the entire Windows Features window if you cannot figure this out.

Run msinfo. That should tell you if virtualization is disabled or not.

View attachment 363518

You do not need to check the Speed Shift EPP box on the main screen. Leave this box clear so Windows can manage the EPP value. The Turn On / Turn Off button is optional for most recent computers when Speed Shift Technology (SST) is enabled.

I have an MSI laptop with the same specs, but even though I have the core isolation turned off, it still won't unlock my CPU voltage settings. I assume I'm out of luck, but I wanted to learn a bit more about this topic as my laptop sits at 80 idle and is hard-stuck at 95 when any load starts. I have dusted it, and maybe some thermal paste would do the trick, but till then, I want to know if lowering my power limits would be a good idea for getting lower temperatures and stable FPS. I have found from the Intel Product page that my i7-11800h has a Down TDP of 35, which I assume is PL1, and an Up TDP of 45, which I think is PL2. I still feel like my understanding of CPUs is flawed so please correct me if I'm wrong, as this is till so foreign to me.

 

[unclewebb]

still won't unlock my CPU voltage settings

Post a FIVR screenshot. Does the ThrottleStop FIVR window still show Locked at the top middle?

You can set the turbo power limits to whatever values you like. Less power will result in less heat but it will also reduce maximum performance. No need to look at the Intel spec page. Set the power limits to give you the performance / heat balance you are looking for. Post a TPL screenshot if you need help with this.

 

[shepal73976]

A few interesting things to note. Setting a maximum multiplier in Speed Shift under TPL does nothing. Which is odd because it used to. At this point, I'm just kind of desperate because its so hot all the time. Anything is better, but I don't want to recede in performance more. I have tried lower wattage before and it definitely hit the performance where it hurts. Also, I have checked and VBS is off.

Edit: when I do any sort of load, I drop to 2.6 GHz, which is just 300 mHz above its non-turbo clock speeds.

 

[unclewebb]

when I do any sort of load, I drop to 2.6 GHz

Lowering the turbo power limits tells your CPU to power limit throttle. Do not be surprised that it is running slower. An 11800H likely needs 80W or more to run at full speed and full load. Some laptop manufacturers did not use adequate cooling for these hot running processors.

its so hot all the time

That seems to be the main problem. Replace the thermal paste with Honeywell PTM 7950 and see if that helps decrease your temperatures.

The FIVR window shows that CPU voltage control has been Locked out by the BIOS. I am not sure if there is an older BIOS version available for your computer that has unlocked voltage controls. Without that, there is not much else you can do.

 

[shepal73976]

This is all the customization I have. Disabling Speed Shift in the bios just does what throttle stop can already do.