Question about Intel Optane SSDs

[NDRE28]

Hello!

I plan to buy a 400GB Intel Optane SSD.

There are 2 variants of the 400GB drive on eBay:

1. Intel Optane DC P5800X / SSDPF21Q400GB L0310100 (400GB).

2. Dell 53M3R Intel Optane DC P5800X / SSDPF21Q400GBT (400GB).

The Dell drive is cheaper.

QUESTION:
Is the Dell drive just as good as the regular Intel one, or should I avoid it?

 

[Solaris17]

Its fine. It just means Dell bought a bunch and branded them for there systems. This happens absolutely everywhere in the enterprise space with all sorts of components and even in consumer hardware.

 

[NDRE28]

Its fine. It just means Dell bought a bunch and branded them for there systems. This happens absolutely everywhere in the enterprise space with all sorts of components and even in consumer hardware.

OK.
Thank you.

 

[FAL-Man]

I just picked up a 53M3R so I haven't had a chance to bench it yet, but it is powered up and formatted successfully mounted using a cheap $20 AIC from Amazon.
Note that per these specs it has a lower DWPD of 60 vs Intel's 100. Has some slightly different I/O specs as well. Not sure if it is using a custom controller or just conservative specs for Dell systems? Dell Express Flash P5800X (PCIe Gen4) and P4800X (PCIe Gen3) Technical Specifications and Information

Also, you can get the latest Dell drivers from here (the Intel Memory and Storage Tool doesn't work with the 53M3R): Dell Express Flash NVMe P5800x PCIe SSD Firmware Release

 

[NDRE28]

I just picked up a 53M3R so I haven't had a chance to bench it yet, but it is powered up and formatted successfully mounted using a cheap $20 AIC from Amazon.
Note that per these specs it has a lower DWPD of 60 vs Intel's 100. Has some slightly different I/O specs as well. Not sure if it is using a custom controller or just conservative specs for Dell systems? Dell Express Flash P5800X (PCIe Gen4) and P4800X (PCIe Gen3) Technical Specifications and Information

Also, you can get the latest Dell drivers from here (the Intel Memory and Storage Tool doesn't work with the 53M3R): Dell Express Flash NVMe P5800x PCIe SSD Firmware Release

Hi!

Thanks for those infos.
The DWPD 60 vs 100 are pretty interesting.
It looks like, there are some differences between the regular Intel drives, and the Dell branded drives!

 

[Wirko]

Hi!

Thanks for those infos.
The DWPD 60 vs 100 are pretty interesting.
It looks like, there are some differences between the regular Intel drives, and the Dell branded drives!

Longer warranty period? 60/day x 5 years would be the same as 100/day x 3 years, for example.

 

[Prime2515102]

They are identical if used.

 

[lexluthermiester]

Hello!

I plan to buy a 400GB Intel Optane SSD.

There are 2 variants of the 400GB drive on eBay:

1. Intel Optane DC P5800X / SSDPF21Q400GB L0310100 (400GB).

2. Dell 53M3R Intel Optane DC P5800X / SSDPF21Q400GBT (400GB).

The Dell drive is cheaper.

QUESTION:
Is the Dell drive just as good as the regular Intel one, or should I avoid it?

They are functionally identical and perform identically. Spend wisely.

 

[LabRat 891]

Dell and Intel datasheets for their respective P5800X drives do differ, in stated bandwidths.
IIRC, Dell's datasheet is more verbose in mentioning Self-encryption, too.
(my 53M3R recognized not as an Intel DC P5800X, but rather a Dell EMC SED P5800X)

I've never seen anyone do a side-by-side, but going off the datasheets, they 'seem' different.

I had a Dell EMC P5800X (53M3R) for about a week. I couldn't get the Dell or Intel firmware tools* to work, and ended up returning the ~$450 drive. *TBF, both tools are intended for used w/ Linux or Windows Server environments.
Replaced it w/ a 400GB P5801X that was about $250.

Do note:
Both, the 'U.2 Gen4' P5800X and the 'E1.S' P5801X, require another $100+ in adapters (to fully utilize, in a CPU-connected M.2 M-key slot).
While a short M.2->U.2 Gen4/Gen5 cable will 'work', it will gimp performance and introduce potential unreliability.

If you want to run a Gen4 or Gen5 Enterprise/DataCenter NVMe drive (from a M.2 M-key slot), you'll need a ReDriver card.

I haven't gotten around to installing my MCIO 38p M.2 Gen4x4 redriver card,

M.2 M-key PCIe 4.0 with ReDriver to MCIO 38P Adapter

MCIO 38P to M.2 M-key PCIe 4.0 adapter with built-in ReDriver & SMBus repeater. Supports Windows 7/8/10 & UEFI 2.3.1+. Compliant with SFF-TA-1016 & SFF-9402 specs.

www.microsatacables.com

but w/o it I 'only' get about 5GB/s absolute peak bandwidth.

 

[lexluthermiester]

Dell and Intel datasheets for their respective P5800X drives do differ, in stated bandwidths.
IIRC, Dell's datasheet is more verbose in mentioning Self-encryption, too.

Interesting. They're effectively the same and will perform in a way that is the same to the perception to the user.

 

[LabRat 891]

Interesting. They're effectively the same and will perform in a way that is the same to the perception to the user.

That was my assumption as well. Also, why I 'pulled the trigger' on a $450 US-located P5800X over a ~$400 China-located P5800X.

I'm open to the very real possibility the Dell and Intel drives are identical, and Dell merely 'focuses' on different performance numbers.
However, w/ the combination of my buyer's remorse (>$1/GB), inability to flash or 'check' the firmware w/ any of the 'official' tools, and underwhelming performance*, I returned it for a less-expensive P5801X 400GB.

PS: The P5801X technically is a slightly slower drive than the P5800X but,
it was ~$250/400GB for the P5801X vs. $450+ for the P5800X.


*The 'bottlenecked' performance is my fault.

M.2 slots don't seem to be 'driven' very strongly, and *any* added trace length and/or impedance from contact(s), drastically impacts performance.

Some additional 'kit' will likely be necessary:
$60-120 for the ReDriver card
$30-50 for the cableset,
$20-50 for the E1.S-U.2 adapter (if using a P5801X)
Edit:
if you want pre- and post-sale support, and don't mind paying A LITTLE more, I recommend buying all the ancillary kit from https://www.microsatacables.com/
AFAIK, one can *only* reliably source the ReDriver card from their site or their eBay store. -The cables and adapters/carriers are more-broadly available, but it's probably worthwhile buying it altogether from the same supplier; if only for support/warranty.

 

[lexluthermiester]

I'm open to the very real possibility the Dell and Intel drives are identical, and Dell merely 'focuses' on different performance numbers.

From what I understand while working at/with the company, the Dell versions had firmware that interfaced with Dell specific system utilities. They otherwise should be the same. If there are any differences in performance, I suspect they're margin of error.

 

[Solaris17]

Note that per these specs it has a lower DWPD of 60 vs Intel's 100. Has some slightly different I/O specs as well. Not sure if it is using a custom controller or just conservative specs for Dell systems?

They are conservative from Dell they are the exact same drive

 

[NDRE28]

Longer warranty period? 60/day x 5 years would be the same as 100/day x 3 years, for example.

Yeah.
That's true.

Dell and Intel datasheets for their respective P5800X drives do differ, in stated bandwidths.
IIRC, Dell's datasheet is more verbose in mentioning Self-encryption, too.
(my 53M3R recognized not as an Intel DC P5800X, but rather a Dell EMC SED P5800X)

I've never seen anyone do a side-by-side, but going off the datasheets, they 'seem' different.

View attachment 390233View attachment 390234

I had a Dell EMC P5800X (53M3R) for about a week. I couldn't get the Dell or Intel firmware tools* to work, and ended up returning the ~$450 drive. *TBF, both tools are intended for used w/ Linux or Windows Server environments.
Replaced it w/ a 400GB P5801X that was about $250.

Do note:
Both, the 'U.2 Gen4' P5800X and the 'E1.S' P5801X, require another $100+ in adapters (to fully utilize, in a CPU-connected M.2 M-key slot).
While a short M.2->U.2 Gen4/Gen5 cable will 'work', it will gimp performance and introduce potential unreliability.

If you want to run a Gen4 or Gen5 Enterprise/DataCenter NVMe drive (from a M.2 M-key slot), you'll need a ReDriver card.

I haven't gotten around to installing my MCIO 38p M.2 Gen4x4 redriver card,

M.2 M-key PCIe 4.0 with ReDriver to MCIO 38P Adapter

MCIO 38P to M.2 M-key PCIe 4.0 adapter with built-in ReDriver & SMBus repeater. Supports Windows 7/8/10 & UEFI 2.3.1+. Compliant with SFF-TA-1016 & SFF-9402 specs.

www.microsatacables.com

but w/o it I 'only' get about 5GB/s absolute peak bandwidth.

In my case, I want to use the Optane drive with a U.2 to PCIe 4.0 x4 adapter card (StarTech PEX4SFF8639).
I'll insert it into an ASRock X670E Taichi motherboard.

 

[LabRat 891]

In my case, I want to use the Optane drive with a U.2 to PCIe 4.0 x4 adapter card (StarTech PEX4SFF8639).
I'll insert it into an ASRock X670E Taichi motherboard.

You have 2 CPU-connected x16 (physical) slots. You should be G2G.
IIRC, the second CPU-connect PCIe slot on most supporting-boards *has to* already have ReDrivers or ReTimers attached to it.

Note: You'll only be using x4 of the x8 avail on that slot. IDK if your board will allow x12 to the GPU and X4 to the 2nd slot-
-you might consider an x4/x4 dual U.2<->PCIEx8 Gen4 adapter, so at least the other x4 lanes are accessible.

Also of note:
Many of the 400GB P5801Xs coming out of China for $333+, include a Gen4+ PCIe<->E1.S adapter card.

 

[FAL-Man]

That was my assumption as well. Also, why I 'pulled the trigger' on a $450 US-located P5800X over a ~$400 China-located P5800X.

I'm open to the very real possibility the Dell and Intel drives are identical, and Dell merely 'focuses' on different performance numbers.
However, w/ the combination of my buyer's remorse (>$1/GB), inability to flash or 'check' the firmware w/ any of the 'official' tools, and underwhelming performance*, I returned it for a less-expensive P5801X 400GB.

PS: The P5801X technically is a slightly slower drive than the P5800X but,
it was ~$250/400GB for the P5801X vs. $450+ for the P5800X.


*The 'bottlenecked' performance is my fault.

M.2 slots don't seem to be 'driven' very strongly, and *any* added trace length and/or impedance from contact(s), drastically impacts performance.

Some additional 'kit' will likely be necessary:
$60-120 for the ReDriver card
$30-50 for the cableset,
$20-50 for the E1.S-U.2 adapter (if using a P5801X)
Edit:
if you want pre- and post-sale support, and don't mind paying A LITTLE more, I recommend buying all the ancillary kit from https://www.microsatacables.com/
AFAIK, one can *only* reliably source the ReDriver card from their site or their eBay store. -The cables and adapters/carriers are more-broadly available, but it's probably worthwhile buying it altogether from the same supplier; if only for support/warranty.

Interesting. Had no problems with the Dell driver and Win 11 IoT Enterprise LTSC. I have heard though that the P5801X ‘fell off the Facebook truck’ and weren’t intended for the open market. Also no way to update their drivers (Intel GUI supposedly doesn’t work since they are not retail drives: https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/download/19543/intel-memory-and-storage-tool-gui.html)

 

[FAL-Man]

Also be careful with E1.S cables since they are not keyed and can be reversed causing a short (unlike U.2 SFF-8639).

 

[FAL-Man]

Ok, one mystery. This Dell driver shows it’s the initial 1.0 release, but has a newer 2024 date than the 2.0 release.

Dell Express Flash NVMe P5800x PCIe SSD Firmware Release | Driver Details | Dell New Zealand

 

[NDRE28]

You have 2 CPU-connected x16 (physical) slots. You should be G2G.
IIRC, the second CPU-connect PCIe slot on most supporting-boards *has to* already have ReDrivers or ReTimers attached to it.

Note: You'll only be using x4 of the x8 avail on that slot. IDK if your board will allow x12 to the GPU and X4 to the 2nd slot-
-you might consider an x4/x4 dual U.2<->PCIEx8 Gen4 adapter, so at least the other x4 lanes are accessible.

Also of note:
Many of the 400GB P5801Xs coming out of China for $333+, include a Gen4+ PCIe<->E1.S adapter card.

Hi!

The ASRock X670E Taichi motherboard offers multiple bifurcation options:
x8/x8 - x8/x4/x4 - x4/x4/x4/x4.

As far as I'm aware, the P5801X is inferior to the P5800X.

Some other users, already had success using the StarTech PEX4SFF8639 U.2 to PCIe 4.0 x4 adapter card in combination with the X670E Taichi.
(He put the Optane drive in the top PCIe slot, and the video card in the bottom PCIe slot).

 

[Toss]

Go for 1.5 Tb instead. Futureproof yourself. I bought 1.5 tb fro 400$
it seems not in our lifetime will be anything better for small blocks.
Disk C like to use cache for photoshop, davinci resolve, other pro programs like AI etc,, so it's better not to be capacity constricted.

 

[NDRE28]

Go for 1.5 Tb instead. Futureproof yourself. I bought 1.5 tb fro 400$

I'd like to, but the 1.5TB, new, Optane drives cost a fortune, on eBay!
The 400GB, new, Optane drive costs about $400-$600, on eBay.
How were you able to buy such a large drive for such a cheap price?
(Was it used?)

 

[Toss]

I'd like to, but the 1.5TB, new, Optane drives cost a fortune, on eBay!
The 400GB, new, Optane drive costs about $400-$600, on eBay.
How were you able to buy such a large drive for such a cheap price?
(Was it used?)

yes, it is used from ebay. But usage is minimal, only 10k hours
Aim for used ones, Optane doesn't care about usage and can handle 100 rewrites per day for 6 years easy.

 

[A Computer Guy]

I'd like to, but the 1.5TB, new, Optane drives cost a fortune, on eBay!
The 400GB, new, Optane drive costs about $400-$600, on eBay.
How were you able to buy such a large drive for such a cheap price?
(Was it used?)

Just FYI, If you need more capacity than speed for cheaper looks like one of older 905P models 960GB is back on Amazon for $325.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07JD9GZN7

Hi!

The ASRock X670E Taichi motherboard offers multiple bifurcation options:
x8/x8 - x8/x4/x4 - x4/x4/x4/x4.

Some other users, already had success using the StarTech PEX4SFF8639 U.2 to PCIe 4.0 x4 adapter card in combination with the X670E Taichi.
(He put the Optane drive in the top PCIe slot, and the video card in the bottom PCIe slot).

If your going to go this route using a PCIe add-in card and using a GPU that is more than 1 slot thick I would look for a motherboard where the bottom PCIe slot isn't so close to the bottom connectors on the AM5 motherboard potentially causing cable collision issues. Even at one slot thick cards you might have cable issues. This is one reason I picked the ASRock Live Mixer. I could have my Optane dual PCIe card in the top x16 (in x4/x4/x4/x4 mode) slot and my GPU in the second x16 (x4) slot with room for 2 slot GPU or 3 slot GPU if I didn't want to use the bottom x16 (x4) slot. (edit) Looks like the X670E Taichi has some good room for a GPU on the bottom slot if you need to have the drive in the top slot.

I'm using this glotrends dual PCIe 4.0 adaptor with my 905P PCIe 3.0 drives which also works in the second x16(x4/x4) slot of my X570 motherboard.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CNG9VYTD

inability to flash or 'check' the firmware w/ any of the 'official' tools

Intel Memory and Storage Tool didn't recognize the device?

 

[FAL-Man]

Intel Memory and Storage Tool didn't recognize the device?

It shouldn't. Doesn't seem to recognize any OEM drive, including the Dell 53M3R, Facebook P5801X, HPE P4800X, etc. The P4800X are available pretty frequently in a retail/bulk packaging (part # ending in 01) and should work with the Intel tool. Same with the retail boxed 900/905P's. Dell's 53M3R P5800X does not work with the tool for sure, but Dell still has 1.0.0 and 2.0.0 drivers available online per my links above.

Every other drive that I've seen on the market today will most likely be stuck with whatever driver was loaded on them from the factory, and that will be determined by their pack date (i.e. are you getting NVME 1.3 vs 1.4, etc.)

 

[NDRE28]

Go for 1.5 Tb instead. Futureproof yourself. I bought 1.5 tb fro 400$

I'd like to, but the 1.5TB, new, Optane drives cost a fortune on eBay!
The 400GB, new, Optane drive costs about $400-$600 on eBay.
How were you able to buy such a large drive for such a cheap price?

yes, it is used from ebay. But usage is minimal, only 10k hours
Aim for used ones, Optane doesn't care about usage and can handle 100 rewrites per day for 6 years easy.

OK