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Saving profiles for min/max ratio - coming soon

Joined
Feb 1, 2019
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UK, Midlands
System Name Main PC
Processor 13700k
Motherboard Asrock Z690 Steel Legend D4 - Bios 13.02
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Memory 32 Gig 3200CL14
Video Card(s) 4080 RTX SUPER FE 16G
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Power Supply Antec HCG 750 Gold
Software Windows 10 21H2 LTSC
Hi, would love this feature, currently on my 9900k I just use power profile min/max speed in OS power savings, but this requires C1E, doesnt work with speedshift.

On my 13700k I see I can keep speedshift on, C1E off, and control speedshift ratio's with throttlestop. But currently it applies to all profiles only.

This is under TPL, so the section is turbo power limits.

Speedshift min/max under Misc.
 

unclewebb

ThrottleStop & RealTemp Author
Joined
Jun 1, 2008
Messages
8,018 (1.32/day)
I only use a single TS profile so I have never got around to finishing this feature. Not sure when or if I will ever get around to finishing this feature. I don't have the same programming abilities that I had 10 years ago.
 
Joined
Feb 1, 2019
Messages
3,669 (1.70/day)
Location
UK, Midlands
System Name Main PC
Processor 13700k
Motherboard Asrock Z690 Steel Legend D4 - Bios 13.02
Cooling Noctua NH-D15S
Memory 32 Gig 3200CL14
Video Card(s) 4080 RTX SUPER FE 16G
Storage 1TB 980 PRO, 2TB SN850X, 2TB DC P4600, 1TB 860 EVO, 2x 3TB WD Red, 2x 4TB WD Red
Display(s) LG 27GL850
Case Fractal Define R4
Audio Device(s) Soundblaster AE-9
Power Supply Antec HCG 750 Gold
Software Windows 10 21H2 LTSC
Would it be easier to move it to FIVR which already has profile support? As it isnt a power limit setting anyway and you already have cache ratio there. If you cant its ok I do appreciate the response.
 

maxnevans

New Member
Joined
Jul 9, 2023
Messages
3 (0.01/day)
I'd also appreciate that a lot if you'd implement this feature to work per profile!

Currently I have my Dell XPS 15 9560 with i7 7700HQ and GTX 1050. This machine is so hot that it requires at least two different performance profiles.
  1. The first one is the most CPU efficient and doesn't care about GPU at all. This is needed for the max CPU performance.
  2. The second one I'd like to turn on automatically when the GPU hits 64 C. The thing is that with that profile I'd like to make as much room for the GPU as possible.
It'd all gone good until I realized that I can't bind my speed shift range limits from the TPL window to a profile.

Idk if there is another way to accomplish what I need. I have tested that I can't just set Power Limits as this way I've got some very noticeable freezes (whatever, Power Limits are also in the TPL window and can't be set per profile), so the best choice for me would be to limit the clocks via Speed Shift for such a profile. This work perfectly fine for my needs. The last choice (I haven't tested yet as it seems won't work) is to use the old way of Clock Mudulation per profile. But I'm not sure if that's going to help me much as I'm trying to avoid extra heat if possible from the CPU at a cost of its performance (and if I understand it correctly Clock modulation is going to just pollute processor tacts with garbage instructions (like nop) which is anyway going to make some additional heat (in comparison to the Speed Shift). I'm going to test this too anyway as it seems that there is no choice for me other than that. If you know something that can help me with that I'd appreciate!

BTW, unclewebb, is ThrottleStop available somewhere as open source? It'd be very cool if such an app could be open source so that community could develop and support it.

UPDATE 1.

I've just quickly tested Clock Modulation and it's what I've expected:
  • Speed Shifting from 3.6Ghz to 2.1 Ghz reduces power from 43 Watts to 21.5 Watts.
  • Clock Modulation from 3.6 Ghz to ~2.1 Ghz (56.25% modulation) reduces power from 43 Watts to only 29.5 Watts.
Really wish this feature as it seems to be very effective (will save me 8 Watts! that is almost 20% of what I can afford with my heat sink).

Everybody, let's upvote this feature. Every vote matters!

UPDATE 2.

Also, I'd like to share my tests if someone is interested in my approach of fighting this ugly power limits on Dell XPS 15 9560.

For some reason (I haven't spent much time on that) my GPU works really strangely, it seems that power limit depends on the temperature (but what exactly???) but with some kind of a delay: when I run FurMark and burn the GPU at max possible speed (also run CPU intensive jobs at the same time) it allows to grow the temperature to 77 C and then I see this power limit notification and the clocks drops from 1833 Mhz to 700 Mhz (seems to me like some kind of very aggressive cooling policy applies) but if I reduce the CPU clocks with Speed Shift to 2.1Ghz max and run the same FurMark (this time without any additional payload as in the previous one) but try to avoid fast temperature growing, it shows power limit notification on 66 C and already drops some Mhz but not so drastically - still tries to preserve good performance.

Of course FurMark isn't a practical example! Let's try some more real world things. I've tested this CPU clocks reduction with Speed Shift in The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt. When I run without CPU clocks reduction (which in the game gives me 25 Watts of CPU), GPU immediately throttles from 1830 Mhz to 1300 Mhz which drops from 37 FPS to somewhere around 29 FPS (the precision of FPS doesn't matter here as we try to avoid throttling). When I run with CPU clock reduction to 2.1Ghz (which in the game gives me only 13 Watts of CPU!) I don't experience any throttling (to be honest, I've also cut max GPU frequency from 1830Mhz to 1630Mhz as these 200 Mhz eat too much and give too less) and the GPU is loaded on 100%. The GPU and CPU temperatures are 64 C (instead of 80 C).

Conclusion. I suppose it's very much in demand for laptop users to have TPL window settings per profile.

UPDATE 3.

I think there is a workaround (a little bit ugly but still going to work) to this problem with profiles (some coding required): I'm not sure if we can use command-line arguments to supply for TS to tweak some settings (that would simplify the work) but it's definetly not a big deal to write some app-crutch that will monitor GPU temperature, once conditions are met it stops TS, replaces ThrottleStop.ini for another preconfigured (so we will have one ThrottleStop.ini per profile this way) and starts ThrottleStop back again.

But I'd hope for the support of the feature inside the TS to not write such crutches
 
Last edited:

unclewebb

ThrottleStop & RealTemp Author
Joined
Jun 1, 2008
Messages
8,018 (1.32/day)
Every vote matters!
Everyone has already voted. About a million people every year download and use ThrottleStop because it improves the performance of their computers. Only about 1 out of the 1,000,000 people that download ThrottleStop ever offer to donate anything to help the cause. Based on this level of user support, about 10 years ago I decided to slow down ThrottleStop development. I am a retired old man now. I do not have the mental capacity anymore that I used to have. It takes me forever to write a few lines of code so I rarely bother. Maybe next winter I will get around to finishing the Coming Soon features. Summer is too short where I live to be inside programming.

open source
No plans to ever release ThrottleStop as open source. Too many Intel secrets that are best left as secrets. I have nothing to gain by releasing this as open source.
 

maxnevans

New Member
Joined
Jul 9, 2023
Messages
3 (0.01/day)
UPDATE 4.

And also there is an option on the Main page called "Speed Shift EPP" that can't be enabled/disabled per profile (I can enable it everywhere or disable it everywhere but it seems to be working good under the load). It would also be nice to have this configurable per profile.

In case there is someone with Dell XPS 15 9560 Intel i7 7700HQ GTX 1050. Here are my Performance profile settings:
1688938935157.png
1688938943824.png
1688938953978.png


Here is what I've changed so far:
  • Main settings:
    • Speed Shift EPP - didn't enable 'cause I don't need my CPU to change frequency in high performance mode
    • BD PROCHOT - prefer to have it as I have 97+ temps only under FurMark + Cinebench
    • SpeedStep - the same as Speed Shift, I don't want my CPU to reduce clocks
    • C1E - the same as above
  • FIVR (didn't touch anything, just undervolted everything):
    • CPU Core - -123 mV (couldn't be less the CPU Cache - CPU ignores it, but can be greater than CPU Cache)
    • CPU Cache - -123 mV (undervolted this first as CPU doesn't ignore it if CPU Core offset isn't set (you can test it yourself by setting some dumb value like -300 mV and you will have crash if CPU doesn't ignore it)
    • Intel GPU - -159.2 mV (shouldn't be less then iGPU Unslice as it will be ignored as CPU Clock)
    • iGPU Unslice - -195.3 mV (the same as CPU Cache - can be configured first before Intel GPU)
    • System Agent - -135.7 mV (the most unstable thing, didn't crash under the full load but when I opened a specific window).
  • TPL (left it in Performance mode as is as on my laptop PL1 seems to be max limited to 45 Watts (I still can set it lower but not higher) on the BIOS or hardware level.
And here is my Afterburner curve (undervolted the GPU and cut it to be not higher than 843 mV which is equal to 1630 Mhz).
1688939766759.png


And here is what I'd change for Gaming Profile:
1688939924266.png
1688940001454.png
1688940032386.png


  • Options window:
    • I'd set profile 2 to be used if GPU is hotter than 64 C.
  • Main Window:
    • Enable Speed Shift EPP and set it to 32 to give CPU a little play. In this mode we need it to be as quite as possible but not much so we load GPU fully.
    • Enable back C1E.
  • Turbo Power Limits window:
    • Enable Speed Shift set min to 15 and max to 21 - the idea is that I've tested that CPU can load 97% GPU at 1.5Ghz in the Witcher and makes 9 Watts of heat where as boost to 2.1Ghz gains a little less FPS drops and only 13 Watts of heat (it's obvious that if you want to play something else you should go and test that as each game has it's own CPU to GPU load ratios (even the same game has different scenes with different CPU to GPU ratios)).
 

unclewebb

ThrottleStop & RealTemp Author
Joined
Jun 1, 2008
Messages
8,018 (1.32/day)
"Speed Shift EPP" that can't be enabled/disabled per profile
The reason for this is that if you want to use Speed Shift EPP then it needs to be enabled for all profiles. If you do not want to use this, it needs to be disabled for all profiles.

It makes no sense for it only to be enabled for some profiles. If ThrottleStop allowed this, the CPU would end up getting stuck at the wrong EPP value when switching profiles. It would be completely inconsistent depending on what previous profile you were using. That is why ThrottleStop forces you so that Speed Shift EPP is always enabled or always disabled for all profiles.

I will look into getting those Coming Soon features up and running some day soon. Thanks for the feedback.
 

maxnevans

New Member
Joined
Jul 9, 2023
Messages
3 (0.01/day)
CPU would end up getting stuck at the wrong EPP value when switching profiles
That sounds for me as there has to be made a little hack (I suppose the problem exists only when we switch the SS EPP from enabled to disabled): before we disable the SS we can max out the EPP value so that the processor won't stick to a low performance. I assume that this is not going to solve the problem completely as we might have other things enabled that will decrease CPU performance right in the moment of switching.

there is no choice for me other than that.
Found a way to get around the problem (at least better than Clock Modulation and better than nothing). For the Gaming Profile:
  • Disabled Turbo,
  • Set Speed Shift EPP to aggressive 192,
  • Enabled C1E,
  • In FIVR minimized Turbo Ratio Limits (for me that is 28) (actually not quite understand how it works as under the load in the game I got some 3.5 Ghz clock peaks - so, looks like both Disabled Turbo and minimized Turbo Ratios Limits don't completely prevent the CPU to go above 2.8 Ghz),
  • in TPL window enabled SS range for all the profiles and set it to (15, 38) - the idea is that on Performance profile with EPP set to 0 won't ever have 1.5 Ghz (at least under some little load) and on Gaming Profile with 192 I suppose it will try to downclock to 1.5Ghz.
 
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