Setup Gigabit fiber over a direct MOCA 2.5 connection?

[tabascosauz]

I'm thinking of moving my setup upstairs again, but things have changed since I last moved downstairs.

The old ISP had a DOCSIS setup so their modem already used coax lines as TV and internet came in both over coax.............but only one coax outlet in the house could be configured for internet at a given time (if I wanted to move my setup I'd just go into the closet box and connect the coax line for the appropriate room to the feeder line). Data goes through a 1-to-3 splitter in the closet - the input is labelled "Feeder" (I'm assuming that's where TV signal comes into the house, because Shaw's DOCSIS didn't actually use any fiber wiring in residential areas) and screwed into a MOCA filter; there are three outputs but only 1 is for internet, and screwed into another MOCA filter. That's the line that I used to connect/disconnect depending on where I wanted to setup my computer.

The current ISP is actual fiber so there's an ONT and it doesn't touch coax lines at all (I have no TV service anymore), but it's downstairs. Which is why I have my PC and router setup in that room. AFAIK I don't have ethernet wiring in my house.

But I do have a coax outlet in every room. Right now I run ONT > Asus AC86U - it's not a MOCA router, but the provided Telus router does have a coax port so I could run signal through that to function as a MOCA adapter on one end. So I was thinking something like this:

1. How much speed loss would I be looking at? My plan is 940/940mbps and I can regularly exceed those numbers slightly on my current connection (ONT>AC86U>comp). The Telus router has good comparable performance on ethernet as well. 802.11ac wifi maxes out about 580Mbps in the same room as the router.
2. Will MOCA work with the wiring I have? Specifically that only one coax port can receive signal at a time (or, technically two, if it's possible to make a direct connection between 2 rooms)?
3. How do I setup the coax in the closet? Do I have to disconnect the feeder line and just run a direct coax connection (still through the feeder) between the downstairs room and upstairs room? Does that even work? Do I still need the 2 MOCA filters on either end of the splitter?
4. Since I don't have a DOCSIS ISP anymore, have my coax lines been "disabled" in any way and I have to set them up if I want to use MOCA?
5. Do I actually need double MOCA filters to get ethernet signal? Can I just connect both coax lines to the output end of the splitter?

 

[1freedude]

Firstly, congrats on ditching TV. Second, I think you want to ditch the MoCA filters, too. I may be wrong, but I think they protect the TV signal, that is now nonexistent. Third, make sure to do some homework as to the "right" adapter on the end of the coax. Some may say 2.5Gbps, but it may not play nice with the Telus router/converter. It's bullshit chip-level stuff that's waay beyond me. I go to dslreports for verified info.

Telus forum | DSLReports, ISP Information

Telus forum, broadband news, information and community

www.dslreports.com

That may help.

As far as coax connections go, just make sure there is a complete circuit from one to the other. The splitters can cause problems if they dont pass the right spectrum, but it sounds like your cabling is pretty modern. And, it might not be necessary, but terminations (caps) on unused splitter ports can help with interference. And, you can have many adapters on your network.

Good luck, and congrats again!

 

[tabascosauz]

Firstly, congrats on ditching TV. Second, I think you want to ditch the MoCA filters, too. I may be wrong, but I think they protect the TV signal, that is now nonexistent. Third, make sure to do some homework as to the "right" adapter on the end of the coax. Some may say 2.5Gbps, but it may not play nice with the Telus router/converter. It's bullshit chip-level stuff that's waay beyond me. I go to dslreports for verified info.

Telus forum | DSLReports, ISP Information

Telus forum, broadband news, information and community

www.dslreports.com

That may help.

As far as coax connections go, just make sure there is a complete circuit from one to the other. The splitters can cause problems if they dont pass the right spectrum, but it sounds like your cabling is pretty modern. And, it might not be necessary, but terminations (caps) on unused splitter ports can help with interference. And, you can have many adapters on your network.

Good luck, and congrats again!

Thanks for the tips! I don't have to use the Telus router as an adapter, the goCoax ones are $105 so I can just add an extra one to my cart to be extra sure.

The only reason I planned around the splitter is because it's already there and I don't really understand if there are any intricacies to connecting coax to coax. Does something like this work instead and allow me to just remove the splitter entirely?

https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B01F54KYO2/ref=ewc_pr_img_1?smid=A130RVB6PSAL46&psc=1

As to the splitter, there is one output on 3.5db and two outputs on 7db. The 3.5db output is the one that internet was always using when I was on Shaw, and also the only output with filter. The 7db outputs have always been connected but I don't think I have ever used them for anything (or looked closely at which rooms they go to).

From what I read they were saying the filters are for interference and preventing signals from going to/from other people's houses. One guide said MOCA on an existing fiber network doesn't need filters. Given the feeder line is dead, I don't have TV service, and it'll be an end-to-end coax line that doesn't go out of the house, I'm not sure that applies they do all have DO NOT REMOVE, REQUIRED FOR MOCA NETWORK stickers though

 

[Super Firm Tofu]

I have zero knowledge on fiber and coax, but are you sure you don't already have CAT5 to each room (maybe hiding as a phone jack only using one pair)? I see a ton of cable in the background of that photo.

 

[Count von Schwalbe]

The only reason I planned around the splitter is because it's already there and I don't really understand if there are any intricacies to connecting coax to coax. Does something like this work instead and allow me to just remove the splitter entirely?

https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B01F54KYO2/ref=ewc_pr_img_1?smid=A130RVB6PSAL46&psc=1

I'm a bit (read: a lot) out of my depth here, but I can tell you a couple of things FWIW.
1. The linked devices will act quite well if your purpose is to splice two cables into one.
2. When I moved in to my current house, the ISP was using a coax connection to the modem. The line led into a splitter (8 ports IIRC) which spidered all over the house. The modem was the only thing on the network and I have/had no TV service. Connection was absolutely miserable and speeds were nearer dial-up than broadband. Removing the splitter gave us 250Mbps.

 

[tabascosauz]

I have zero knowledge on fiber and coax, but are you sure you don't already have CAT5 to each room (maybe hiding as a phone jack only using one pair)? I see a ton of cable in the background of that photo.

You are 100% correct, I looked at the blue bundle of lines and they are indeed all CAT5e, which would be enough for gigabit.

Unfortunately, they are all phone jacks so I'd have to hire an electrician to do some splicing (at which point it probably would be as expensive as the MOCA adapters). Also unfortunately, there is no phone jack in the room I need, but there are phone jacks in every one of the surrounding rooms

I guess coax would give me a bit more upgradeability in the future for 2.5? Maaaaaybe?

I'm a bit (read: a lot) out of my depth here, but I can tell you a couple of things FWIW.
1. The linked devices will act quite well if your purpose is to splice two cables into one.
2. When I moved in to my current house, the ISP was using a coax connection to the modem. The line led into a splitter (8 ports IIRC) which spidered all over the house. The modem was the only thing on the network and I have/had no TV service. Connection was absolutely miserable and speeds were nearer dial-up than broadband. Removing the splitter gave us 250Mbps.

Good to know, didn't know splitters could be so bad. The 1-3 splitter with the two unused outputs has always been my setup since I moved into this house. I had Shaw for years, first on a 50Mbps then a 150Mbps then a 300Mbps plan. Apart from horrid upload speed (due to DOCSIS, it's still that bad, even their new $130/mo 1500Mbps plan) and frequent "maintenance" outages, actual internet performance was never really super bad.

Then came Telus with 940/940, and a decent router in itself, AND the ability to just run whatever router I wanted directly off the ONT.........and I realized Shaw had been milking me dry for years.

I've just got the existing splitter in there to identify the two lines I need, already got the filters removed. I've got the coax-coax adapter and the two MOCA adapters in my cart now, I'll just swap the splitter when the time comes.

 

[Super Firm Tofu]

Ah, that's too bad there's not a jack in the room.

For future reference in other rooms, it's pretty easy to just replace the wall jack with an RJ45 with this (and the associated plate).

https://www.amazon.com/Leviton-5G108-RW5-QuickPort-Cat-5e-White/dp/B00029IYUM

Not sure of the brand of your 'box' in the wall, but I'm sure they have something similar to this that would allow you to 'punch down' some of the existing cables inside the box to this allowing you to have a switch and just patch to the rooms you needed.

https://www.amazon.com/Leviton-47605-C5B-Category-Module-Bracket/dp/B000U3DXM4

This type of wiring is super simple so I don't think you'd have any issue doing it yourself.

If your house is newer, it might even be CAT5e so you'd be good up to 10 Gbit

 

[Count von Schwalbe]

Good to know, didn't know splitters could be so bad. The 1-3 splitter with the two unused outputs has always been my setup since I moved into this house.

To be fair, this was a lot more ports and was upstream of the modem, dunno if that makes a difference. Just something to watch out for.

Unfortunately, they are all phone jacks so I'd have to hire an electrician to do some splicing (at which point it probably would be as expensive as the MOCA adapters). Also unfortunately, there is no phone jack in the room I need, but there are phone jacks in every one of the surrounding rooms

If it is as simple as swapping RJ11 socket to RJ45, I would suggest that. Plenty of videos can be found online, until even a monkey could do it!

To extend, a coupler (2 female ports back to back) is widely available. You would have to run a wire from the next room over though, and if it is in an outside wall, that can be a b*tch.

Not trying to convince you one way or the other, but ~$100 of tools could get you going on your cat-5 network.

 

[tabascosauz]

Ah, that's too bad there's not a jack in the room.

For future reference in other rooms, it's pretty easy to just replace the wall jack with an RJ45 with this (and the associated plate).

https://www.amazon.com/Leviton-5G108-RW5-QuickPort-Cat-5e-White/dp/B00029IYUM

Not sure of the brand of your 'box' in the wall, but I'm sure they have something similar to this that would allow you to 'punch down' some of the existing cables inside the box to this allowing you to have a switch and just patch to the rooms you needed.

https://www.amazon.com/Leviton-47605-C5B-Category-Module-Bracket/dp/B000U3DXM4

This type of wiring is super simple so I don't think you'd have any issue doing it yourself.

If your house is newer, it might even be CAT5e so you'd be good up to 10 Gbit

Yep, CAT5e is all I've found in the box

Stand by, I may be on the verge of a smooth brain moment.........just discovered that some of the phone outlets have both RJ11 and RJ45...........and there's something on the wall behind the big file cabinet in that room..........

edit: nope, only rj11

 

[Bill_Bright]

@tabascosauz The splitter you show in your post #3 above is barely adequate - at best. Most providers recommend the top speed (frequency) be 1000MHz (1GHz) minimum.

In the future, should you decide to go back with cable TV, and for ALL users with cable TV and cable Internet, I urge you to use a 2-way splitter with a frequency capability of 5 to 2500MHz (2.5GHz) like this 5 - 2500MHz 2-Way Splitter. The cable from the provider connects to the "In". The Internet gateway device (modem) connects to one "Out", and all the TVs in the house connect to the other "Out".

It is critical for all to understand that in any splitter, the signal strength is divided, regardless if you have a cable connected to an output or not! So, with a 3-way splitter, the signal is divided 3 ways - even if using just two outs.

If you need to feed multiple TVs, you can add additional splitters on the TV side of your primary 2-way splitter.

Also, in your case, you should be using an Ethernet router (or even wireless router) instead of having to physically move your modem around.

 

[tabascosauz]

An update: goCoax adapter arrived before the RG6 female-female adapter did. So for now I hooked up using the Telus modem and one of the old 3-way splitters (with nothing connected to outputs 2 and 3). Not shabby at all, just a hair short of full speeds. The Telus modem is running with all its wifi functions disabled.

I'll be hooking up my AC86U for wifi and swapping out for the coax-coax adapter later today, so we'll see if there are any improvements.

 

[1freedude]

Cool. Another thought...put the other coax adapter on a different wall outlet, to have more internets around zee house