Unclewebb- PLEASE add VF Curve!

[okashiraa]

The only thing missing from TS compared to XTU.

VF curve for P cores
and VF curve for Pcache would be amazing
(yes Pcache has a seperate VF curve, that XTU doesn't expose)

 

[eidairaman1]

You might of tried a dm instead.

 

[Mussels]

Eida: Nah, feature requests are great to do publicly so other people can pitch in pros/cons of the idea

 

[nvnstar]

sounds great, I never knew that exist or this is for 12th gen or later only ?

 

[unclewebb]

VF curve for P cores

I thought about adding this feature but I have not got around to it yet. I always run my desktop CPU at maximum speed. I never saw the real need to be able to make fine voltage adjustments like this.

I did add the ability to edit the Core VF Point at 800 MHz just to see what users think about this. Not a single user has ever told me that they use this feature or requested that I should develop this feature further. I guess now I can say that one person has requested more VF tuning.

Perhaps someday I will replace that simple feature so you can edit the voltage for all 8 VF points.

I never knew that exist or this is for 12th gen or later only ?

My 10850K desktop CPU supports VF editing. As far as I know, this feature is only available on the K series CPUs. The unlocked mobile HX series might also support VF tuning.

 

[Manciuszz]

Sort of relevant - https://github.com/psyq321/PowerMonkey/issues/26

More about V/F Point tuning: https://github.com/psyq321/PowerMonkey/blob/main/docs/vfpoint_tuning.md

(yes Pcache has a seperate VF curve, that XTU doesn't expose)

That's because they probably share the same voltage regulator, so there's really no point in exposing.

 

[okashiraa]

I thought about adding this feature but I have not got around to it yet. I always run my desktop CPU at maximum speed. I never saw the real need to be able to make fine voltage adjustments like this.

I did add the ability to edit the Core VF Point at 800 MHz just to see what users think about this. Not a single user has ever told me that they use this feature or requested that I should develop this feature further. I guess now I can say that one person has requested more VF tuning.

View attachment 303654

Perhaps someday I will replace that simple feature so you can edit the voltage for all 8 VF points.


My 10850K desktop CPU supports VF editing. As far as I know, this feature is only available on the K series CPUs. The unlocked mobile HX series might also support VF tuning.

>>I did add the ability to edit the Core VF Point at 800 MHz just to see what users think about this. Not a single user has ever told me that they use this feature or requested that I should develop this feature further. I guess now I can say that one person has requested more VF tuning.

I think this is party because I was unsure what this does, the way it's presented i felt it was a legacy option that doesn't do anything, if you know what i mean?

 

[unclewebb]

Most people that undervolt their laptops have light load stability problems if they undervolt too much. You can usually undervolt reliably more at max speed compared to when a CPU is idle.

This ThrottleStop feature works great in theory. Adding voltage at 800 MHz boosts voltage for the lower part of the voltage curve and should help fix light load stability issues when undervolting too aggressively.

ThrottleStop is primarily a tool for laptops. When I found out that most laptops with H series processors do not support this feature, I decided not to bother working on this any further.

Maybe when winter returns I will be bored and I will have another look at this. Too nice to be inside programming during the summer.

 

[okashiraa]

Most people that undervolt their laptops have light load stability problems if they undervolt too much. You can usually undervolt reliably more at max speed compared to when a CPU is idle.

This ThrottleStop feature works great in theory. Adding voltage at 800 MHz boosts voltage for the lower part of the voltage curve and should help fix light load stability issues when undervolting too aggressively.

ThrottleStop is primarily a tool for laptops. When I found out that most laptops with H series processors do not support this feature, I decided not to bother working on this any further.

Maybe when winter returns I will be bored and I will have another look at this. Too nice to be inside programming during the summer.

Yes, I agree, I'm using this for an 13900hx in a laptop.

Also need to overvolt at 1700 and 2400mhz, 800mhz is not enough. I was able to undervolt an additional 60mv when I overvolted the 8x, 17x and 24x points

Yes, I agree, I'm using this for an 13900hx in a laptop.

Also need to overvolt at 1700 and 2400mhz, 800mhz is not enough. I was able to undervolt an additional 60mv when I overvolted the 8x, 17x and 24x points

By the way, if you only overvolt the 800MHz point, it may not be applying correctly, because intel has a strict rule - that each VF point must be higher then the previous one.
If you over volt the 8x point by 80mv, and the 17x point by 0, the 8x overvolt wont actually apply, because the 8x point voltage must be less then or equal to the 17x point.

The 8x and 17x voltages are already pretty close so you won't have much room to overvolt it.

 

[Mussels]

Most people that undervolt their laptops have light load stability problems if they undervolt too much.

this is also the case on ryzen, with the curve undervolts
The key there (and on intel laptops, or weaker desktops) is that the maximum clock speed drops with heat/sustained loads, so you need multiplemultipliers and associated VID's with lowered voltages, not just the highest one

I dont know the intel side as well, but i assume it's the same there - adjusting each step invidually is the 'least effort' from a programming standpoint while being able to let users adjust as they wish, but i have no idea how practical that is with the hardwares support

 

[unclewebb]

intel has a strict rule - that each VF point must be higher then the previous one.

Have you tried testing this on your 13th Gen HX?

I did some testing of the ThrottleStop mv Boost @ 800 MHz feature. The testing I did was on a 10th Gen desktop 10850K so it is possible that your CPU works differently.

With mV Boost set to 0, the idle VID voltages were approximately,

0.6897 V @ 800 MHz
0.7844 V @ 2500 MHz

When boosting only the V/F point at 800 MHz by +150 mV, this raised the VID for the second V/F point automatically. The CPU was smart enough so the final VID values were in compliance with Intel's strict V/F point rule.

0.824 V @ 800 MHz
0.824 V @ 2500 MHz

The fourth digit after the decimal place tended to wander around a little bit when testing but raising the first VF point higher than the second VF point caused the second VF point to automatically correct so it was equal to the first point. There was no need for me to adjust the second point separately. Based on this testing, I decided that being able to adjust all 8 V/F points might not be necessary. I thought raising the lower end of the voltage curve should allow a person to undervolt more without the voltage at the low end getting too low and causing a BSOD.

If you have time, try doing some testing on your 13th Gen HX to see if it works the same.

This image shows what this ThrottleStop feature is designed to do.

I like keeping new features as simple as possible. I thought single point V/F adjustment might be good enough to fix the light load BSOD issues that many laptops have when using a large undervolt. If you can show me that being able to adjust all 8 V/F points is really necessary then I will definitely consider adding this feature to ThrottleStop. I am interested in seeing if only increasing the low end voltage allows you to reliably use a bigger undervolt.

 

[PHVM_BR]

I have extensively tested my I9-9980HK (Precision 7540) and definitely the voltage adjustment per point of the VF curve would be something very extraordinary!

Unfortunately, the offset voltage adjustment per point of the VF curve is not available on the XTU for me.

I don't know if it is because of incompatibility for this function between the XTU and the i9-9980HK or because of some blockage in the BIOS.

i9-9980HK: Frequency x Voltage Offset (cache / core)

(1 core) 5,2GHz: -40,0mV / -65,4mV
(1 core) 5,1GHz: -75,2mV / -125,0mV
(1 core) 5,0GHz: -110,4mV / -184,6mV
(2 core) 4,9GHz: -102,5mV / -169,9mV
(3 core) 4,8GHz: -102,5mV / -169,9mV
(4 core) 4,7GHz: -125,0mV / -210,0mV
(5 core) 4,6GHz: -150,4mV / -250,0mV
(6 core) 4,5GHz: -139,6mV / -230,5mV
(7/8 core) 4,4GHz: -125,0mV / -210,0mV (~111W)
(8 core) 4,3GHz: -102,5mV / -169,9mV (~103W)
(8 core) 4,2GHz: -102,5mV / -169,9mV (~94W)
(8 core) 4,1GHz: -110,4mV / -184,6mV (~84W)
(8 core) 4,0GHz: -120,1mV / -200,2mV (~75W)
(8 core) 3,9GHz: -115,2mV / -190,4mV (~69W)
(8 core) 3,8GHz: -115,2mV / -190,4mV (~64W)
(8 core) 3,7GHz: -115,2mV / -190,4mV (~59W)
(8 core) 3,6GHz: -115,2mV / -190,4mV (~54W)
(8 core) 3,5GHz: -115,2mV / -190,4mV (~50W)
(8 core) 3,4GHz: -110,4mV / -184,6mV (~47W)
(8 core) 3,3GHz: -110,4mV / -184,6mV (~43W)
(8 core) 3,2GHz: -110,4mV / -184,6mV (~40W)
(8 core) 3,1GHz: -110,4mV / -184,6mV (~37W)
(8 core) 3,0GHz: -104,5mV / -174,8mV (~34W)
(8 core) 2,9GHz: -110,4mV / -184,6mV (~32W)
(8 core) 2,8GHz: -110,4mV / -184,6mV (~30W)
(8 core) 2,7GHz: -110,4mV / -184,6mV (~28W)
(8 core) 2,6GHz: -110,4mV / -184,6mV (~26W)
(8 core) 2,5GHz: -110,4mV / -184,6mV (~24W)
(8 core) 2,4GHz: -110,4mV / -184,6mV (~23W)