Undervolting advice - Razer Blade 15 (i7-8750H) using ThrottleStop

[Matt2809]

Hi,

I've been using ThrottleStop to undervolt my Razer Blade 15 (i7-8750H and GTX 1070 Max-Q) and while I've seen a few different guides, there are differences between them, so I'm looking for advice please regarding if my settings seem to be in the right area.

Since applying the settings about 2 weeks ago, there have been 2 occasions where I was playing a game for 30 mins to an hour and the game would just shut off and I'd be taken back to Steam. I was wondering if this was caused by the undervolt settings or if it was overheating and I may need to repaste. My settings prior to looking up a few guides were these - https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Vw4uA5PWsq0GvZKuMKSVoGaehCHysHsh I had set the CPUs all to 3.2 as I had read that can help keep temperatures down, while not having a huge impact on performance.

Now since reading more guides and comments, I've changed the settings to these:


Are there any settings that would be better to be changed?

Thank you

 

[unclewebb]

The first problem I see is you have Speed Shift EPP checked on the main screen but you and your BIOS have not enabled Speed Shift. If you want to use Speed Shift Technology, you have to enable it in the Turbo Power Limits window. Once enabled, ThrottleStop will show SST in green on the main screen.

ThrottleStop is showing a 14°C difference between two cores in your screenshot. That can be an indication of a heatsink that is not making proper contact with the CPU. It might be a bad paste job or the heatsink might not be sitting square to the CPU or it was not tightened down evenly. Checking that should be on your things to do list.

The rest of your settings look OK. Some people reduce the turbo ratio limits to keep their temps down but there is no reason to do this unless you have some sort of temperature problem. Intel says your CPU can run 100% reliably up to 100°C. Some users do not like seeing big temperature numbers so they limit their CPU performance.

Besides gaming, what other stability testing have you done to prove that your -125 mV under volt is 100% stable. Games randomly shutting down is not a good sign. Game testing is important but so is full load testing and part load testing. Have you tried running a 1 or 2 thread TS Bench test? This test can detect errors quicker than some popular full load tests can. During normal use, 6 core CPUs are rarely fully loaded for extended periods of time. Cores tend to rapidly alternate between full load and no load so some part load testing is important.

Try adjusting the cache to -100 mV. There is no need to set your voltages so you are on the cutting edge of stability. Give your CPU some wiggle room. That is why Intel includes some extra voltage in their designs.

Turn on the Log File option in ThrottleStop and play a game for 15 minutes or so. When finished testing, exit the game and then exit ThrottleStop so it can finalize your log file. It will be located in the ThrottleStop / Logs folder. Attach it to the next post. A log that shows your CPU performance and temperatures is much more useful compared to some screenshots.

After you enable Speed Shift, you can adjust the Speed Shift EPP variable on the main screen. A setting of 0 is for maximum performance. If you like seeing your CPU slow down when lightly loaded, try setting Speed Shift EPP to 80.

 

[Matt2809]

Thank you for the help, I really appreciate it.

No, apart from testing games, I had only done benchmarking with Unigine Valley, Superposition and CineBench. I'll try running some 1 and 2 thread bench test and also enable the log and play a game for 15 minutes to see temperatures and performance is.

I updated the bios earlier today as I noticed I was running the stock bios and thought that could be causing some problems and I noticed there were a few updates had gone by since the launched on Razer's website. But since updating the bios Speed Shift EPP has gone from enabled to not. I loaded up the bios and couldn't see it anywhere, so maybe Razer has locked it.

I've disabled the Speed Shift EPP setting and lowered the undervolt to -100mv on the CPU and cache and the log below was from gaming for 15 minutes.

 

[unclewebb]

But since updating the bios Speed Shift EPP has gone from enabled to not.

As I mentioned, if you want to use Speed Shift, you can enable it in the TPL window. Speed Shift is a CPU feature. You do not need BIOS support to enable it. I like using it because it is an easy way to control the CPU. It is simple to use different Speed Shift EPP values in different ThrottleStop profiles. It is a far better way to control a CPU compared to the Windows Balanced power profile that you are probably using now.

Your log file looks great. The CPU is running at its rated speed and neither the CPU or the GPU is overheating. There is no need to follow any guide that recommends slowing down your CPU. It is well cooled so nothing to worry about.

Try some more CPU demanding games if you have any. The game you played was a very light load for a 6 core CPU. It only uses 1 core so 5 out of 6 cores are spending most of their time sitting idle.

Cinebench R20 is a good real world test. It will fully utilize your CPU.

https://www.maxon.net/en-us/products/cinebench-r20-overview/

 

[Matt2809]

Oh yes, I misunderstood, thank you. I've enabled the speed shift again now.

I'm guessing the crashing issues with this game wouldn't be a result of the undervolting, if it's not that demanding? Probably an issue with the game itself or drivers possibly?

Thank you for all your help!

 

[unclewebb]

I'm guessing the crashing issues with this game wouldn't be a result of the undervolting

If you have not done any thorough testing then your under volt could be the cause of games crashing. Go back to default voltage. See how your game plays.

it's not that demanding?

This is why part load testing is so important. It is almost more important. That game was barely using your 6 core CPU. Apps like this will bounce around from core to core. Each core has to be stable at idle so when it is called on to do something, it can do it without crashing. The TS Bench is a good basic test to simulate this type of load. You can easily set how many threads it is going to use.

the game itself or drivers possibly

It could be. The only way to troubleshoot is to do some proper testing. Copying some voltage settings you found in a YouTube video can only get you so far. Hands on testing is best with a variety of benchmark testing programs.

 

[Matt2809]

Ah ok, I see.

I tested all the threads on TS Bench through ThrottleStop and it's peak temps were 1 thread 61 / 2 threads 65 / 4 threads 83 / 8 threads 91 / 12 threads 95 (I let the temps drop before running each test)


The 3rd and 6th core seems to be reaching higher temps than the others?

I also ran Cinebench and took the log attached while running it.

I'll test the game without TS running as well as test other games with TS running that I've not tried since the undervolt, the crashing of the particular game may be coincidental as I only started playing this game at the same time I started using an undervolt.

 

[unclewebb]

@Matt2809 - Your log file shows that after a while, your CPU starts to throttle because of the 45W turbo power limit. In the Options window if you checked the box, Add Limit Reasons to Log File, you would probably see either PL1 or PL2 showing up in the far right column of the log file. The log file shows that when this happens, power consumption drops from 70W to 45W. This reduces your CPU temperature which is great but it also costs you about 600 MHz in CPU performance. With better cooling and no power limits, this same CPU can run at 3900 MHz so overall, you have lost over 900 MHz of CPU performance.

   DATE       TIME    MULTI   C0%   CKMOD  CHIPM   BAT_mW  TEMP  GPU     VID   POWER
2020-05-12  12:35:31  35.95   98.8  100.0  100.0        0   93    54   1.0966   69.9
2020-05-12  12:35:31  35.81   98.8  100.0  100.0        0   92    54   1.0219   67.5
2020-05-12  12:35:32  35.68   98.9  100.0  100.0        0   93    54   0.9503   69.4
2020-05-12  12:35:32  35.75   98.8  100.0  100.0        0   93    54   1.0720   68.1
2020-05-12  12:35:32  35.70   98.9  100.0  100.0        0   93    54   1.0272   68.2
2020-05-12  12:35:32  35.63   98.9  100.0  100.0        0   93    54   1.0358   68.6
2020-05-12  12:35:32  35.86   98.8  100.0  100.0        0   93    54   1.0013   69.3
2020-05-12  12:35:32  35.60   98.9  100.0  100.0        0   93    54   1.0479   67.4
2020-05-12  12:35:32  35.60   99.0  100.0  100.0        0   93    54   0.9611   67.4
2020-05-12  12:35:32  32.33   99.9  100.0  100.0        0   83    54   0.9318   61.6
2020-05-12  12:35:33  30.43  100.0  100.0  100.0        0   78    54   0.8871   48.0
2020-05-12  12:35:33  29.11  100.0  100.0  100.0        0   75    54   0.8654   42.9
2020-05-12  12:35:33  29.15  100.0  100.0  100.0        0   74    54   0.8872   43.7
2020-05-12  12:35:33  29.90  100.0  100.0  100.0        0   73    54   0.8662   44.3
2020-05-12  12:35:33  29.73  100.0  100.0  100.0        0   74    54   0.8868   45.2
2020-05-12  12:35:33  29.56  100.0  100.0  100.0        0   73    54   0.8875   43.7

The sad part is that some Razer laptops have this limitation and there is nothing you can do about it. No matter what you set the power limits to in the ThrottleStop TPL window, these values will be ignored and long term, Razer will enforce the 45W TDP limit instead. There is no easy way to override what Razer wants. That means your 8750H will never be able to perform at the level that it is capable of.

The 3rd and 6th core seems to be reaching higher temps than the others

If you look at a picture of how the cores are laid out, the 3rd and 6th cores are side by side. This is usually a sign that the heatsink is not sitting square to the CPU or the thermal paste is inadequate on that side. Here are some good pics of Intel 8th Gen 6 core desktop technology. The mobile CPUs are laid out the same.

Intel Core i7-8700K 3.7 GHz Review

Intel strikes back! The Core i7-8700K comes with six processor cores, plus HyperThreading, for a total of twelve threads. Overclocking potential is excellent, reaching 5 GHz on all cores, with ease, on just air cooling. Pricing is also extremely reasonable, with just a small increase over the...

www.techpowerup.com

Fixing your temperature issues will not make much of a difference. You will still be limited by the 45W TDP limit.

 

[Matt2809]

The sad part is that some Razer laptops have this limitation and there is nothing you can do about it. No matter what you set the power limits to in the ThrottleStop TPL window, these values will be ignored and long term, Razer will enforce the 45W TDP limit instead. There is no easy way to override what Razer wants. That means your 8750H will never be able to perform at the level that it is capable of.

Ah, that makes sense. Will there be any negative affects other than reducing performance?

If you look at a picture of how the cores are laid out, the 3rd and 6th cores are side by side. This is usually a sign that the heatsink is not sitting square to the CPU or the thermal paste is inadequate on that side. Here are some good pics of Intel 8th Gen 6 core desktop technology. The mobile CPUs are laid out the same.

Fixing your temperature issues will not make much of a difference. You will still be limited by the 45W TDP limit.

So it'll be best to open up to check the heatsink and thermal paste to see if it needs the heatsink adjusting or re-pasting based on the temps of the 3rd and 6th cores?

 

[unclewebb]

Will there be any negative affects other than reducing performance?

Only reduced performance compared to other laptop models that are using the same CPU. For many games, some reduced CPU speed is barely noticed. It does give you a significant drop in temps so Razer's 45W decision is not all bad.

Your temperatures on those two cores are high compared to the rest but they are not causing your CPU to thermal throttle. You can try fixing this problem but you might not want to bother. If you do a great job, you might get these temps to line up better with the other ones but is that going to make any difference to how your CPU runs? Probably not. If those hot running cores were causing your entire CPU to thermal throttle and slow down then trying to fix that problem would be a good idea.

 

[Matt2809]

Ok, thank you, I'll keep an eye on the performance and temps.

 

[Azzyfizzle]

Hi, just wondering if this ended up fixing your problems?