AMD's connectivity-rich Ryzen Threadripper HEDT platform may have an Achilles's heel after all, with reports emerging that it lacks support for booting from NVMe RAID. You can still have bootable NVMe RAID volumes using NVMe RAID HBAs installed as PCI-Express add-on cards. Threadripper processors feature 64-lane PCI-Express gen 3.0 root complexes, which allow you to run at least two graphics cards at full x16 bandwidth, and drop in other bandwidth-hungry devices such as multiple PCI-Express NVMe SSDs. Unfortunately for those planning on striping multiple NVMe SSDs in RAID; the platform lacks NVMe RAID booting support. You should still be able to build soft-RAID arrays striping multiple NVMe SSDs, just not boot from them. Pro-sumers will still be able to dump their heavy data-sets onto such soft-arrays. This limitation is probably due to PCI-Express lanes emerging from different dies on the Threadripper MCM, which could present problems to the system BIOS to boot from.

Ryzen Threadripper is a multi-chip module (MCM) of two 8-core "Summit Ridge" dies. Each 14 nm "Summit Ridge" die features 32 PCI-Express lanes. On a socket AM4 machine, 4 of those 32 lanes are used as chipset-bus, leaving 28 for the rest of the machine. 16 of those head to up to two PEG (PCI-Express Graphics) ports (either one x16 or two x8 slots); and the remaining 12 lanes are spread among M.2 slots, and other onboard devices. On a Threadripper MCM, one of the two "Summit Ridge" dies has chipset-bus access; 16 lanes from each die head to PEG (a total of four PEG ports, either as two x16 or four x8 slots); while the remaining are general purpose; driving high-bandwidth devices such as USB 3.1 controllers, 10 GbE interfaces, and several M.2 and U.2 ports.

Noctua today presented three high-end heatsinks for the TR4 and SP3 sockets of AMD's latest Ryzen Threadripper (X399) and Epyc platforms. The new TR4-SP3 versions of the award-winning NH-U14S, NH-U12S and NH-U9 coolers are tailored custom models that feature a larger contact surface as well as a SecuFirm2 mounting system for TR4/SP3. Supplied with Noctua's renowned NF-A15, NF-F12 and NF-A9 premium fans, the new coolers combine outstanding cooling performance with exceptional quietness of operation.

"A high-end platform usually calls for high-end cooling solutions and that's precisely the case with AMD's new Epyc and upcoming Ryzen Threadripper ecosystems", explains Roland Mossig (Noctua CEO). "We have therefore customized our award-winning NH-U14S, NH-U12S and NH-U9 coolers so that users can enjoy the performance and quietness of these proven premium heatsinks on the new AMD platforms."

GIGABYTE today formally launched its only socket TR4 motherboard for AMD Ryzen Threadripper processors, the Aorus X399 Gaming 7. Packed to the brim with features, the board is built in the ATX form-factor, and is halfway between the ATX and E-ATX form-factors in width. It draws power from a combination of 24-pin ATX, 8-pin EPS, and 4-pin ATX power connectors, conditioning it for the CPU with a 14-phase VRM. The CPU socket is wired to eight DDR4 DIMM slots, and five PCI-Express 3.0 x16 slots.

Storage connectivity on the Aorus X399 Gaming 7 includes three 32 Gb/s M.2 slots covered by aluminium heatsinks; and eight SATA 6 Gb/s ports. USB connectivity includes two USB 3.1 gen 2 ports (both on the rear panel, including a type-C port, two by headers), and ten USB 3.0 ports. Networking is care of a WLAN card with 802.11ac MU-MIMO Wi-Fi, and Bluetooth 4.2; and a gigabit Ethernet interface driven by a Killer E2500 gigabit Ethernet controller. The board is peppered with RGB LEDs controlled by GIGABYTE RGB Fusion software. Available from 10th August, the board is expected to be priced around $300.

ASRock's Fatal1ty X399 Professional Gaming board is ideal for high end gamers and other power users. This board gets the utmost from the modern high-speed networking environment with features like AQUANTIA 10Gb/s LAN - ideal for ultra-responsive lag-free online gaming, and for SOHO systems as well. The board's 1 x U.2 connector and 3 x Ultra M.2 sockets easily support high-end SSDs for lightning fast startup and game level loading. This board features IR3555M DrMOS and premium 60A power chokes, it is optimized for monitoring current and temperature to maintain stable power and flawless performance, even at peak loads and during overclocking.

Producing some of the smoothest and most lifelike graphics ever seen from the most powerful cards the industry has to offer, ASRock's X399 motherboards supports 4-Way operation for both NVIDIA SLI and AMD CrossFireX. All the PCIe lanes are supported directly from the CPU without using an additional bridge controller, to ensure unhindered graphics performance.

There are two kinds of desktop CPU platforms. The mainstream tier runs from two cores up to eight, and it's great for gaming and general use. Its high-end sibling takes everything up a level with more cores, more memory channels, and more bandwidth for graphics and storage. A considerable upgrade in every regard, this high-end desktop platform appeals to power users, content creators, and prosumers who want to blur the line between desktop and workstation. AMD's Threadripper CPU is the latest addition to the desktop's heavyweight division, and it walks into the ring with an entourage of SocketTR4 motherboards in tow. This guide explains the ASUS and ROG family to help you pick the best X399 motherboard for your high-end desktop or gaming PC.

All of our X399 boards share core DNA that includes one-touch overclocking, refined cooling control, and improved RGB lighting. Yet they each have their own distinct flavor as well. The ROG Zenith Extreme brings Threadripper into the world of premium dream PCs with provisions for custom liquid cooling and 10G networking. With the Strix X399-E Gaming, hardcore gamers can build stylish rigs with power to spare for high-quality streaming. And then there's the Prime X399-A and its well-rounded foundation channeling the professional side of the platform's prodigious power. Which X399 motherboard should you buy for your build? Let's find out.

MSI, the leading gaming motherboard brand, is proud to announce the all-new X399 GAMING PRO CARBON AC with the launch of new high-end AMD's flagship Ryzen Threadripper processors. Built on the SocketTR4 platform, featuring up to 16 cores and 32 threads, the new Ryzen Threadripper 1950X CPU is capable of scoring over 3000 points in Cinebench, showing its true colors as the new ultra-premium desktop processor.

Like AMD, MSI continuously strives to push the gaming industry forward and emphasizes on gamers' demand. To deliver pure, unprecedented, power and great efficiency when using the new high-end 16-core Threadripper processor, the MSI X399 GAMING PRO CARBON AC is built on a massive 13 phase (10+) DrMOS power design. This not allows for better overclocking, it also helps harness all the power and temperature generated by the massive number of cores. The X399 GAMING PRO CARBON comes with the strongest power design when comparing it to other brands and their current offerings. Besides this, it also features plenty of genuine gaming features and exclusive technologies.

It has been a huge weekend of product announcements and launches from AMD, which expanded not just its client computing CPU lineup on both ends, but also expanded its Radeon graphics cards family with both client- and professional-segment graphics cards. This article provides a brief summary of everything AMD launched or announced today, with their possible market-availability dates.

AMD did not just announce retail availability on Ryzen Threadripper today, they also had some on-site and arranged for a fun LN2 overclocking event as part of Capsaicin SIGGRAPH 2017. As always, such events are to give day one estimates on the maximum performance potential of the silicon which in turn guides end users and board partners alike on the worst case scenarios as far as power draw and cooling requirements go.

Monstru from Lab501 was kind enough to share a couple of pictures of the actual event with us while AMD followed up with a Cinebench R15 screenshot as seen below. All 16 cores of the Ryzen Threadripper 1950X were overclocked to 5.2 GHz with a x52 multiplier on a standard 100 MHz bus speed. Core VID from CPU-Z is not trustworthy at these temperatures, so presumably it was more in the range of 1.6 V than 1.16 V. They did have DDR4 RAM in quad channel but at the JEDEC base of 2133 MHz to get as high a CPU frequency without the IMC being a factor. The Cinebench R15 score of 4122 cb is very impressive, given the previous high score for a 16-core CPU was 2867 cb, and it took a 28 core CPU to beat this score before. Sure, the days of high core count overclockable CPUs is only coming now but it goes to show where we were before AMD and Intel both decided to go big this generation.After the break we have some photographs of X399 motherboards from various manufacturers, so be sure to take a look.

AMD today officially announced some more details on its brain-child and market-stormer Ryzen Threadripper HEDT line of CPUs. Ryzen is a true new stand-alone architecture for AMD, the result of more than four years of careful planning and silicon design towards reaching a truly scalable, highly-flexible, non-glued together MCM design that could power all experiences and workloads through a single architecture design. The Ryzen architecture is already powering desktops with Ryzen 3, 5 and 7 desktop CPUs; has extended to server-side deployments through its EPYC line-up and will begin shipping for professionals with Ryzen PRO starting in Q3 2017. Also announced was that it will find its way to mobile APUs around Q4, paired with the new Vega graphics microarchitecture; and will even power professional-geared mobile solutions in 1H18. But more immediately, it's coming to the HEDT market. And AMD is putting that fight in the hands of Threadripper.

AMD pits its HEDT line-up to developers, researchers, prosumers, creators, and even multi-tasking gamers. Increased compute capabilities with up to 16 cores and 32 threads; larger memory footprint, increased I/O and storage, and support for many more GPUs and PCIe lanes ensure a stable, impressive platform for today's large data sets and tomorrow's exponentially more resource-intensive workloads. AMD will execute this with a three-pronged approach. There will be three processor models on offer for their HEDT platform. The $999 TR 1950X and $799 TR 1920X are known quantities already, with their respective 16 cores (32 threads) and 12 cores (24 threads). The new addition, however, comes in the form of the $549 TR 1900X, which offers not only 8 cores (16 threads) and 3.8 GHz base, 4.0 GHz boost clocks, but a clear upgrade path within AMD's new platform. Say what you will about AMD's offerings and execution, one thing is for sure: Zen and all the silicon it powers have prompted a reshuffle of the CPU landscape as we hadn't seen in years. Coincidence? AMD doesn't think so.

GIGABYTE today teased its flagship socket TR4 motherboard for AMD Ryzen Threadripper processors, the Aorus X399 Gaming 7. This board has been extensively showcased by the company, and was part of three socket TR4 motherboards which were put up at AMD's Computex 2017 event booth. The board is being formally unveiled later today, at the "Meet the Experts" event being hosted by AMD in Los Angeles. The board packs an exhaustive feature-set, including eight DDR4 DIMM slots, five PCI-Express 3.0 x16 slots, three M.2 slots, the company's highest-grade onboard audio solution, and an RGB LED lighting system driven by GIGABYTE RGB Fusion software.

AMD CEO Lisa Su, ahead of the company's grand SIGGRAPH event, unveiled what could very well be the retail packaging of the company's upcoming Ryzen Threadripper HEDT processors. There's a good possibility that this isn't the retail packaging, because it looks shaped like an old-school television, and could be a prop AMD is using for its SIGGRAPH booth, or it's a special packaging AMD is reserving for reviewers (the company does that with most of its flagship products).

The rounded cuboid box features a prominent window with a CRT-like convex bulge through which you can look at the large Ryzen Threadripper chip. There's minimal branding or literature on the box itself, which could indicate the presence of an outer cover. AMD is planning to launch its Ryzen Threadripper lineup with two SKUs for the retail (DIY) channel, the 12-core/24-thread Ryzen Threadripper 1920X, and the 16-core/32-thread Ryzen Threadripper 1950X. The two parts will be accompanied by a small but growing selection of compatible socket TR4 motherboards based on the AMD X399 chipset, by industry majors such as ASUS, ASRock, and GIGABYTE. The processor is expected to be available by 9th August.

More pictures emerge of ASUS' flagship socket TR4 motherboard for AMD Ryzen Threadripper processors, the Republic of Gamers (ROG) Zenith Extreme X399. Halfway between the width of a standard ATX and an E-ATX motherboard, the Zenith Extreme doesn't appear as crowded around the CPU socket as some of the other socket TR4 motherboards showed off at AMD's Computex 2016 reveal, this June. The CPU is powered by a high-current 8-phase VRM, and to preempt VRM overheating issues as seen on Intel X299 platform motherboards, ASUS deployed an active VRM cooling solution. Heat drawn by the VRM heatsink is transported to a secondary heatsink under the rear I/O shroud by a heat-pipe, which is ventilated by a 40 mm fan, which vents hot air through the rear.

The TR4 socket is wired to eight DDR4 DIMM slots, supporting up to 128 GB of quad-channel DDR4 memory; and four PCI-Express 3.0 x16 slots. Interestingly, these slots are wired x16/x8/x16/x8, even though the Ryzen Threadripper processor features 64 PCI-Express lanes, according to AMD. Other expansion slots include an open-ended PCI-Express 3.0 x4, and an x1 slot. The board draws power from a combination of 24-pin ATX, two 8-pin EPS, and an optional 4-pin Molex input. Storage includes four 32 Gb/s M.2 slots (two under the detachable chipset heatsink cover, and the other through the included DIMM.2 accessory), a 32 Gb/s U.2 port, and six SATA 6 Gbps ports. The metallic chipset heatsink cover features thermal padding, so it can draw heat from at least one stacked M.2 SSD.

AMD is organizing the "Meet the Experts" webinar, which will focus on AMD's upcoming Ryzen Threadripper motherboard designs and offerings from AMD partners. As we inch closer to AMD's HEDT X399 platform launch, we've gotten confirmation from AMD on Threadripper's specs and pricing. However, the actual motherboards where you're expected to sit your awe-inducing 12 and 16-core processors have largely been absent from the show.

And since AMD knows that processors without a motherboard don't really equate to anything much, the company has invited ASUS, Gigabyte, MSI and ASRock to detail at least some of their X399 motherboards. So far, the motherboards we have some info are the GIGABYTE X399 AORUS Gaming 7 (which has 5x PCIe x16 slots, no PCIe x1 slots, and 3x M.2 slots in an ATX form-factor); the ASUS X399 ROG ZENITH EXTREME (EATX, 4x PCIe x16 slots, 1x PCIe x1 slots, and 2x M.2 slots); the ASROCK X399 Professional Gaming (ATX, 4x PCIe x16 slots, 1x PCIe x1 slots, and 3x M.2 slots); and finally, the ASROCK X399 TAICHI, which counts with the usual ATX form-factor, and offers 4x PCIe x16 slots, 1x PCIe x1 slots, and 3x M.2 slots. All of these seem to be marketed toward gamer enthusiasts, though we'll see some increasingly workstation-geared motherboards closer to or after the launch.

GEIL's EVO Spear joins the company's DDR4 memory line-up with some inconspicuous looks and lack of LED lighting. The new series from GEIL also features something that's not all that common nowadays - a standard DIMM-sized heat spreader, which doesn't add much volume to the parts. This means these kits shouldn't pose many clearance problems (if any), which is a good thing in some smaller form-factor builds.

The new Kits from GEIL are available in both Intel and AMD-compatibility kits, and the new series is fully compatible with the Intel X299 HEDT platofrm (it remains to be see if the AMD-compatible parts will have the same compatibility towards the company's X399 Threadripper platform.). GEIL offers the module in speeds of 2133MHz up to 3466MHz, in single, dual or quad-channel kits. GEIL didn't release pricing information as of yet, but says that "EVO Spear Series is designed for PC gamers looking for well-performed standard-height gaming memory without high price tag." This probably means these kits will sell for less than comparable GEIL kits from other series. Expect these to hit the streets this July.

In a video presentation posted on the company's official YouTube channel, AMD CEO Lisa Su talked at length about the two new lines of Ryzen desktop processors the company plans to launch later this month. This includes the Ryzen Threadripper HEDT socket TR4 processor at the higher-end of the lineup, and the new Ryzen 3 series socket AM4 processors at the lower-end. AMD is announcing market-availability of two SKUs for each of the two brands. To begin with, AMD will launch two quad-core SKUs in the Ryzen 3 series, beginning with the Ryzen 3 1200 and the Ryzen 3 1300X. Both of these are quad-core parts which lack SMT, leaving them with just four threads. AMD is expected to price them on par with Intel's dual-core "Kaby Lake" Core i3 SKUs.

The Ryzen 3 1200 is clocked at 3.10 GHz, with 3.40 GHz boost, the 1300X is clocked higher, at 3.50 GHz, with 3.70 GHz boost, and XFR (extended frequency range) enabling higher clocks depending on the efficacy of your cooling. Both parts will be available worldwide on July 27. The Ryzen Threadripper HEDT processor lineup is designed to take Intel's Core X series head-on, and will launch with two SKUs, initially. This includes the 12-core Ryzen Threadripper 1920X, and the 16-core Ryzen Threadripper 1950X. Both parts further feature SMT and XFR. The 12-core/24-thread 1920X features clock speeds of 3.50 GHz, with 4.00 GHz boost; while the 16-core/32-thread 1950X ticks at 3.40 GHz, with 4.00 GHz boost. AMD also ran live demos of the Threadripper chips, in which the 12-core 1920X was shown to beat 10-core Intel Core i9-7900X at Cinebench R15 multi-threaded benchmark. The 16-core 1950X was shown to be close to 50% faster than the i9-7900X. The company also confirmed pricing.

Apparently, AMD's nomenclature of its flagship Ryzen Threadripper won't look like years-of-birth of today's gamers after all. The flagship 16-core part will bear the model name Ryzen Threadripper 1950X (and not the previously-reported 1998X). This chip was put through GeekBench 4.1.0, on an ASRock X399 Professional Gaming, paired with 16 GB of DDR4-2133 MHz memory. Whether it's dual-channel or quad-channel, is not known at this point. What is known, however, is that 2133 MHz isn't the best memory frequency for Ryzen; and paired with quad-channel DDR4-3200, one could expect the best possible performance. The 1950X was clocked at 3.40 GHz for this test, which probably is its final nominal clock speed, after all.

The Ryzen Threadripper 1950X sample scored 4,167 single-thread performance, and 24,539 points in multi-threaded performance. To put these numbers into perspective, an Intel Xeon E5-2697A v4 16-core/32-thread processor based on the "Broadwell" architecture scores 30,450 points in multi-threaded performance, even if single-thread performance is as low as 3,651 points. Perhaps the memory setup or SMT isn't optimally set for the Threadripper chip. Among the other Threadripper SKUs AMD plans to launch on July 27 are the 12-core/24-thread Ryzen Threadripper 1920X and 1920 (non-X).

AMD could launch some of its enthusiast-segment Ryzen Threadripper high-end desktop (HEDT) processors on July 27, 2017. On this day, you will be able to purchase PIB (retail) packages of certain models of Threadripper. You will also be able to purchase gaming desktops and workstations featuring Threadripper on this day. It is expected that AMD will launch about four SKUs, two 12-core, and two 16-core. The company could end 2017 with up to nine models. Accompanying these Ryzen Threadripper chips will be new socket TR4 (SP3r2) motherboards based on AMD X399 chipset. Some of these were showcased at AMD's Computex 2017 show.

AMD, which announced its Ryzen Threadripper HEDT processor at its 2017 Computex show, closely followed by certain motherboard manufacturers' unveiling of their compatible AMD X399 chipset motherboards; is readying nine SKUs based on the dual "Summit Ridge" MCM. This includes 10-core (3+2+3+2), 12-core (3+3+3+3), 14-core (4+3+4+3), and 16-core (4+4+4+4) models, all of which have SMT enabled, resulting in 20, 24, 28, and 32 threads, respectively; full 64-lane PCI-Express gen 3.0 root-complexes; and full quad-channel DDR4 memory interfaces. Some of these models with the "X" brand extension feature XFR (extended frequency range), which adds 200 MHz to the boost clock, if the cooling is sufficient.

The lineup is led by the 16-core/32-thread Ryzen Threadripper 1998X, with a healthy clock speed of 3.50 GHz, and 3.90 GHz boost, a TDP of 155W, and XFR. This is closely followed by the 16-core/32-thread 1998, clocked lower, at 3.20 GHz with 3.60 GHz boost, 155W TDP, and lack of XFR. The 16-core chips are followed by 14-core models. The 14-core/28-thread Ryzen Threadripper 1977X ships with 3.50 GHz core clock speed, but 4.00 GHz boost, XFR, and the same 155W TDP as the 16-core parts. This is closely followed by the 14-core/28-thread 1977 (non-X), with lower clocks of 3.20 GHz core, 3.70 GHz boost, and again, the same 155W TDP.

Here are some of the first pictures of AMD socket SP3r2 (LGA 4094) motherboards for Ryzen Threadripper HEDT processors. The socket is visibly bigger than Intel LGA2066, and is flanked by eight DDR4 DIMM slots. The other characteristic feature of these boards is that they feature up to three PCI-Express 3.0 x16 slots with full x16 wiring, taking advantage of the 64-lane PCIe root complex, with the fourth slot splitting away x8 lanes from the third slot. This is unlike Intel, where after you've spend $999 on their 10-core processor, you can only run up to two slots at x16.

The first motherboard on our tour is an ASRock X399 Fatal1ty Gaming 9. This board is loaded for bear with four x16 slots (all of which are wired to the CPU), eight DDR4 DIMM slots for the quad-channel memory interface, 32 Gb/s M.2 and U.2 storage connectivity, and at least four of the eight SATA 6 Gb/s ports that come directly from the CPU for the least latency. An interesting observation here is that all three boards we've seen draw power from just a single 8-pin EPS connector besides 24-pin ATX, unlike several LGA2066 boards that over a second EPS or 4-pin ATX input for the CPU VRM. Could this mean that AMD also beat Intel with HEDT energy-efficiency?

Today is an eventful day in the tech world, with two high-impact leaks already offering themselves up to our scrutiny. We had previously covered AMD's upcoming HEDT platform, based on the company's new X399 chipset, as having a quite distinctive lineup of processors, with not only 16 and 12-core offerings hot on foundries presses', but also some 14-core, 28-thread chips as well. Now, a leak has apparently revealed the entire Ryzen HEDT platform, whose processor marketing name, Ryzen 9, sounds really close to Intel's Core i9.

AMD's offerings look to offer an edge at least on core-count, with the Red team's top offerings, the Ryzen 9 1998X and Ryzen 9 1998, bringing in a game-changer 16 cores and 32 threads to the table. Perhaps even more importantly, we have to mention that the 1998X (these names, if true, are quite a mouthful, though) achieves a 3.5 GHz base, 3.9 GHz boost clock, which owes nothing to AMD's Ryzen 7 1800X consumer flagship CPUs. Rumors of AMD's frequency demise on higher core-count Ryzen CPUs have been greatly exaggerated, it would seem. And did I mention that these chips are coming with a TDP of 155 W - 5 W lower than Intel's purported 12-core, i9-7920X offering? Consider that for a moment.

Intel's X299 HEDT platform, whose launch we recently covered as having been pushed forward by the company so as to better compete against AMD's upcoming X399 HEDT platform, has some new, juicy rumors floating about it. Namely, Bench.Life has reported that Intel's upcoming Kaby Lake-X and Skylake-X lines of high performance CPUs will also feature 12-core offerings on its Skylake-X materialization, instead of just the previously reported 6, 8, and 10-core designs.

This really looks like an Intel that's stretching its manufacturing and chip design prowess so as to prevent itself from being buried in higher-performing, higher core and thread count offerings from its rival AMD, which has turned Intel's line-up in the mainstream consumer market head-over-heels already. Latest reports peg the new series as being presented on Computex 2017 (specifically, on may 30th), with availability being expected on June 26th. Which platform are most interested in, and what do you think of this move from Intel?

According to DigiTimes, sources among Taiwan-based PC vendors have indicated that Intel's upcoming Basin Falls platform, which includes Skylake-X and Kaby Lake-X processors on a new X299 chipset, will be unveiled at Computex 2017 (May 30th, June 3rd), in Taipei - two months earlier than expected. This move comes accompanied by an accelerated launch of the Coffee Lake microarchitecture, which still uses the 14 nm process, to August 2017 from an initial January 2018 launch. If true, this is big in a number of ways - that Intel would bring forward a product launch 4 months has some interesting implications - or at least, confirmations.

Remember that Coffee Lake is supposed to carry an increased number of cores in its mainstream designs. And we all know how Intel's line-up has almost been torn apart by Ryzen's aggressive core and thread-count, with AMD offering more cores and threads than Intel at virtually all price-points. And even if an argument is made regarding Intel's better gaming performance, that's one scenario out of many. Future proofing, professional work, multimedia, all of these assert AMD's dominance in a pure price-performance ratio. I, for one, would gladly give up some FPS in some games and accept an increased number of cores than go the other way around (especially with AMD's platform support and the number of patches that have increased game performance on Ryzen CPUs.)

In an interesting report that would give some credence to reports of AMD's take on the HEDT market, it would seem that some Ryzen chips with 12 Cores and 24 Threads are making the rounds. Having an entire platform built for a single processor would have always beenludicrous; now, AMD seems to be readying a true competitor to Intel's X99 and its supposed successor, X299 (though AMD does have an advantage in naming, if its upcoming X399 platform really does ship with that naming scheme.)