Sunday, October 2nd 2011
Sandy Bridge-E VT-d Broken In C1 Stepping, Fixed In C2 Stepping, Shortly After Launch
PC enthusiast customers and companies running corporate datacentres looking to buy into the new Sandy Bridge-E platform may want to wait a little while before handing over their hard-earned money to Intel. The initial batch of C1 revision Sandy Bridge-E processors have a bug - "errata" in Intel terminology - in them with VT-d, which means that hardware accelerated virtualization doesn't work properly with them (software only mode is unaffected). The feature when working properly, allows all hardware acceleration to work on the hosted operating system (virtual machine). This would allow things such as hard drive controllers to work, plus applications such as high-powered 3D games, typically First Person Shooters, to run at nearly full speed and the full Windows Aero desktop to be displayed on the hosted OS, as the hardware features of the graphics card can be used. Therefore, working VT-d is a critical feature for these kinds of applications.Production of the C1 stepping should have already started, or is about to start. However, the C2 stepping isn't expected until next year, as the qualification process isn't expected to be complete until the end of this year.
Intel will only certify the Waimea Bay platform for PCI Express 2.0 at launch, since there aren't enough third party cards to test with. Some PCI Express 3.0 devices are still likely to work, but Intel doesn't guarantee compatibility. This doesn't bode well for the current 6-series motherboard with gen 3 switches actually working properly once cards and especially, Ivy Bridge processors arrive. Waiting for full qualification before purchasing is therefore advised, or an expensive motherboard replacement may be required in the not too distant future.
There is some good news however. For those wanting to continue using Windows XP, the Waimea Bay platform will be compatible with both 32-bit and 64-bit versions of the operating system. However, Intel won't be providing Rapid Storage drivers for 32-bit XP, which means that the basic Windows drivers will be handling drive access, which may not be optimal. Unsurprisingly, the upcoming Waimea Bay platform will also be supporting the upcoming Windows 8, when released.
It's not so good on the chipset front, either. Intel has increased the price of the X79 chipset by 20% compared to the X58 chipset, putting the X79 chipset somewhere in the region of $70. This is the list price, so the discounted or "street" price should be a lot lower. However, we are looking at a chipset that offers no new features over X58 and it's the same size as the 6-series chipsets - it should be cheaper to manufacture than the X58 chipset which only consists of the I/O Hub and the ICH10R. We wish AMD well with their new processors and chipsets, as competition can only be a good thing here and is clearly needed.
It's one thing for "errata" to be discovered some time after a product has been released and then to manufacture a revised processor, but it doesn't seem right for Intel to release processors with a known major feature fault like this, especially as most buyers are unlikely to know about it and Intel is even less likely to shout about it. Therefore, buyers would be wise to wait for the bug-fixed C2 version before upgrading, unless they are absolutely sure they won't need this virtualization feature. After all, are Intel going to offer a free replacement to the fixed version for customers of the initial C1 versions? Only this gesture can make releasing such an obviously flawed product right. Intel have offered such a free replacement recently with the faulty SATA controller, so there's hope yet they'll do the right thing. And just as importantly, it's worth keeping a close watch on what significant errata C2 might harbour, before upgrading.
Source:
vr-zone.com
Intel will only certify the Waimea Bay platform for PCI Express 2.0 at launch, since there aren't enough third party cards to test with. Some PCI Express 3.0 devices are still likely to work, but Intel doesn't guarantee compatibility. This doesn't bode well for the current 6-series motherboard with gen 3 switches actually working properly once cards and especially, Ivy Bridge processors arrive. Waiting for full qualification before purchasing is therefore advised, or an expensive motherboard replacement may be required in the not too distant future.
There is some good news however. For those wanting to continue using Windows XP, the Waimea Bay platform will be compatible with both 32-bit and 64-bit versions of the operating system. However, Intel won't be providing Rapid Storage drivers for 32-bit XP, which means that the basic Windows drivers will be handling drive access, which may not be optimal. Unsurprisingly, the upcoming Waimea Bay platform will also be supporting the upcoming Windows 8, when released.
It's not so good on the chipset front, either. Intel has increased the price of the X79 chipset by 20% compared to the X58 chipset, putting the X79 chipset somewhere in the region of $70. This is the list price, so the discounted or "street" price should be a lot lower. However, we are looking at a chipset that offers no new features over X58 and it's the same size as the 6-series chipsets - it should be cheaper to manufacture than the X58 chipset which only consists of the I/O Hub and the ICH10R. We wish AMD well with their new processors and chipsets, as competition can only be a good thing here and is clearly needed.
It's one thing for "errata" to be discovered some time after a product has been released and then to manufacture a revised processor, but it doesn't seem right for Intel to release processors with a known major feature fault like this, especially as most buyers are unlikely to know about it and Intel is even less likely to shout about it. Therefore, buyers would be wise to wait for the bug-fixed C2 version before upgrading, unless they are absolutely sure they won't need this virtualization feature. After all, are Intel going to offer a free replacement to the fixed version for customers of the initial C1 versions? Only this gesture can make releasing such an obviously flawed product right. Intel have offered such a free replacement recently with the faulty SATA controller, so there's hope yet they'll do the right thing. And just as importantly, it's worth keeping a close watch on what significant errata C2 might harbour, before upgrading.
49 Comments on Sandy Bridge-E VT-d Broken In C1 Stepping, Fixed In C2 Stepping, Shortly After Launch
But seriously... this is a huge problem... it renders them pointless for server market...
Till X79 mates? :D
At least Intel caught it and let people know before the processors were released.
The express chipset may not contain a vast amount of feature differences over Tylersburg, but the platform on the whole is significantly better, sharing such praise wouldnt be beneficial to your hating tho wouldn't it? :slap:
If you want to buy a new system with these significant bugs in it, go right ahead, Intel is preparing to sell it to you. Everyone else will have been glad to have been informed of such a problem so that they can avoid getting stung by it. :rolleyes:
but i would guess qwerty you love Intel so much any ill will or article must be biased right?
its a tech problem it was reported thats how this works, its also mentioned a fix is in place it just wont be ready for a short while. so dont get your panties in a bunch.
:p
Oh, well
While I do agree that it is nice Intel is informing people before launch about this issue, it isn't so much like the "Barcelona" debacle you all reference. In that case, AMD helped motherboard manufacturers issue out a bios to fix the problem (albeit with about a 20% performance hit), and it really didn't affect any home consumer users. Intel motherboards cannot receive a BIOS update to fix this (most likely), nor the SATA issue on early 6 series chipsets.
Unfortunately because 2011 is planned to have a very long life even if it didn't sell a single unit in the first year there's plenty of time for it to do well enough for Intel to consider it a success. Hell even if it was total flop I'm wondering if they still wouldn't try this divided platform crap again and again.
With Ivybridge coming in Spring (and AMD's reputed tweaks for BD) there will be more 'polished' tech available. PCI-e 3 will be more mature with perhaps some gfx vendors using it and you'll get tri-gate tech on IB.
Really, Intel screwed up by making SB so good. I bought X58 and SB cpu is better. You buy x79 now and in 6 months, IB will probably be better.
Nah, x79 seems like a waste to anyone other than those that really need it's functionality yet from all the web reports so far, it seems very hamstrung.
Hopefully they hold back SB-E Xeons. It is vitally important there, or the bug is overblown as Ford theorizes.
Come on AMD! I have nothing until 2012!
The most important thing to note is that VT-d is not present on desktop platforms. Not only the CPU has to support VT-d, but also key motherboard components (NB/SB). On desktop consummer products these "features" are disabled. They are also disabled on desktop consummer CPUs.
Enterprise customers are not "most buyers" and they do know exactly what features they need and what they don't need. Also they would not normally buy a consumer grade desktop computer. They will buy enterprise grade workstations and servers, which is the Xeon brand, with Xeon compatible motherboards that will support VT-d if they indeed need this feature.
Games, like "first person shooters", are not an really what servers are for. Your trying to plant an idea in the minds of gullable TPU readers (I really hope they buy Bulldozers, I don't want them on the Intel camp), that SB-E has some major flaw that will affect their gaming performance. In reality this doesn't concern anyone since VT-d is disabled at the hardware level on consumer grade desktops.
So why is a bug in a disabled feature important? It's not.
By the time we get Xeons in the channel, they will all be C2. There will be no need for any recalls and "free replacements".
Sorry to lash out like this, but I thought TPU was above this.