To everyone saying it should use AIO watercooling:
How'd that work out with both Fury and Vega?

As I recall, the AIO cooled varieties were derided, and they had high(er) failure rates.

And you’re icing out most of the OEM market if you go bigger than 120mm/don’t include silly long hoses

LabRat 891To everyone saying it should use AIO watercooling:
How'd that work out with both Fury and Vega?

As I recall, the AIO cooled varieties were derided, and they had high(er) failure rates.

How about Sapphire Toxic, EVGA Kingpin, Aorus Waterforce, MSI SeaHawk, ASUS Strix LC, PowerColor Liquid Devil? Were those derided?

While true that they weren’t none of them were subject to shipping in tens of thousands of OEM pre-builts with their respective warranties

AIO cooled cards make a lot of sense for partners but it’s more problematic when you’re the manufacturer shipping at much higher volumes to all sorts of markets

Well it should be quieter at least.and it does now feel like 4### series achieved one thing, they've sold the bigger is better angle perfectly.

I bet the 8060 IS this big, and half as expensive.

TheoneandonlyMrKhalf as expensive.

X for doubt

Count von SchwalbeHow about Sapphire Toxic, EVGA Kingpin, Aorus Waterforce, MSI SeaHawk, ASUS Strix LC, PowerColor Liquid Devil? Were those derided?

You make my point.
Those are all custom partner models. Reference/ODM-1st party designs typically do not choose water cooling. -the couple times AMD did, there were problems.

TheoneandonlyMrKWell it should be quieter at least.and it does now feel like 4### series achieved one thing, they've sold the bigger is better angle perfectly.

I kind of doubt that, too. These 4-slot coolers are champs in terms of noise. For example, the 4090 MSI Suprim air cooler is quieter than its liquid cooled sibling. But you’re probably right when comparing it to the FE OOB, but even then there’s so much thermal headroom you could probably beat the quiet bios of the Suprim Liquid.

www.techpowerup.com/review/nvidia-geforce-rtx-4090-founders-edition/37.html

LabRat 891You make my point.
Those are all custom partner models. Reference/ODM-1st party designs typically do not choose water cooling. -the couple times AMD did, there were problems.

OTOH, these were all premium, top of the line designs. As is this device.

JismYou have no idea what it takes to properly engineer something... How would you cool something thats generating up to 600W of power? Adding watercooling is not just extra cost but also extra risk, due to pump or gasket faillure for example.

I never said anything about water cooling. Nvidia has been designing their own crappy founders edition coolers for years and none of them compare to even the low end AIB cards. Why not let the AIB engineer the cooling system. Designing effecting cooling solutions is AIB's core competency because it is the only way they can differentiate their products from other AIB. All the other cards have the same Nvidia chip and specs.

Nvidia makes great chips but not great coolers. The last thing they should be doing is designing water-cooling pumps and systems for their cards. Let the experts design those so Nvidia can stick to what they do best which is developing chips.

dyonoctisSince Ampere, the FE haven't been "crappy". They are well build (very high manufacturing quality, actually), perform well for their size, and are also among the most compact. And sold at the MSRP. You will have a hard time finding a 4090 from an AiB that isn't oversized, priced at a premium without being loud, or cheaply made. They also look good, and don't have that over the top gaming aesthetic.

You forgot the FE performs at the bottom of the product stack and they are the low end of binned chips. The best chips go to the best cards. That's how they hold the overclocks. That is why they cost more.

They are crappy and everyone knows not to buy the FE card unless that's the only way they can afford it. At least they moved past the Turbine style cards that performed even worse and sounded like an aircraft carrier.

FeelinFroggyYou forgot the FE performs at the bottom of the product stack and they are the low end of binned chips. The best chips go to the best cards. That's how they hold the overclocks. That is why they cost more.

They are crappy and everyone knows not to buy the FE card unless that's the only way they can afford it. At least they moved past the Turbine style cards that performed even worse and sounded like an aircraft carrier.

I think you're a bit out of date with this, these days the FE cards have decent chips & often match or even beat the silly expensive partner cards.

FeelinFroggyI never said anything about water cooling. Nvidia has been designing their own crappy founders edition coolers for years and none of them compare to even the low end AIB cards. Why not let the AIB engineer the cooling system. Designing effecting cooling solutions is AIB's core competency because it is the only way they can differentiate their products from other AIB. All the other cards have the same Nvidia chip and specs.

Nvidia makes great chips but not great coolers. The last thing they should be doing is designing water-cooling pumps and systems for their cards. Let the experts design those so Nvidia can stick to what they do best which is developing chips.


You forgot the FE performs at the bottom of the product stack and they are the low end of binned chips. The best chips go to the best cards. That's how they hold the overclocks. That is why they cost more.

They are crappy and everyone knows not to buy the FE card unless that's the only way they can afford it. At least they moved past the Turbine style cards that performed even worse and sounded like an aircraft carrier.

It's obvious that you haven't read the TPU reviews of the Founders edition since Ampere. It sounds like you already have a bias from what was relevant 10 years ago, and didn't bother to check how things have evolved. That would be like someone saying : "AMD use more power, isn't as efficient as Intel, and use an inferior node" in 2023 :D

TheoneandonlyMrKWell it should be quieter at least.and it does now feel like 4### series achieved one thing, they've sold the bigger is better angle perfectly.

I bet the 8060 IS this big, and half as expensive.

This trend is is the GPU equivalent of a push-up bra.
To each their own of course, but it's true lol.

dyonoctisIt's obvious that you haven't read the TPU reviews of the Founders edition since Ampere. It sounds like you already have a bias from what was relevant 10 years ago, and didn't bother to check how things have evolved. That would be like someone saying : "AMD use more power, isn't as efficient as Intel, and use an inferior node" in 2023 :D

Yeah the FE cards for the past couple of generations have been quite good. They're much better than the reference cards of the past.

Oh My GOD, why, just WHY. This should be at very least AIO (if not full cover block) water cooled. 4 Slot air coolers should not exist.

RollergoldOh My GOD, why, just WHY. This should be at very least AIO (if not full cover block) water cooled. 4 Slot air coolers should not exist.

Why not? Most people don't have anything else in their PCIe slots, I know it wouldn't be in the way in my case. As said higher up in this thread, AIOs break, air coolers very rarely do, & if it does the job well then I'd rather have the more reliable one.

dyonoctisIt's obvious that you haven't read the TPU reviews of the Founders edition since Ampere. It sounds like you already have a bias from what was relevant 10 years ago, and didn't bother to check how things have evolved. That would be like someone saying : "AMD use more power, isn't as efficient as Intel, and use an inferior node" in 2023 :D

Do you read reviews? Just go through the TP reviews of the AIB cards. Everyone of them performs better than the founders edition, albeit at a higher cost. This is not from 10 years ago, go look at the 4060 reviews from 2 weeks ago. All the AIB cards out perform the founders edition. So why do you want Nvidia designing coolers when their partners make better coolers. Nvidia is great at making chips, that's their core competency, not developing GPU coolers. AIB companies though have to differentiate themselves from competitors who use the same chip. How do they make cards perform better with the same chips? Cooling is a big factor to performance and the AIB's core competency is getting the most performance out of every chip.

FeelinFroggyDo you read reviews? Just go through the TP reviews of the AIB cards. Everyone of them performs better than the founders edition, albeit at a higher cost. This is not from 10 years ago, go look at the 4060 reviews from 2 weeks ago. All the AIB cards out perform the founders edition. So why do you want Nvidia designing coolers when their partners make better coolers. Nvidia is great at making chips, that's their core competency, not developing GPU coolers. AIB companies though have to differentiate themselves from competitors who use the same chip. How do they make cards perform better with the same chips? Cooling is a big factor to performance and the AIB's core competency is getting the most performance out of every chip.

But...There's no 4060 founder edition ? What are you talking about ? And as I said, the AIB cards that perform well are also Bigger. By a huge margin. Not everyone wants big. You want something compact, that isn't build like a fisher price toy? There's the FE. You could also just ignore the FE, and go on your merry way. I don't understand why you get so angry about it. The people developing the FE are not the same people developing the GPU arch, Nvidia got enough money to hire actual specialist in their fields.

The FE is often the best way to get a good card without having to deal with retailers adding a premium on top of the premium. In France it's really a god send.

(The FE was also the only reason that I could grab the 3070 for the MSRP when everyone else was selling it for 1500€)

dyonoctisBut...There's no 4060 founder edition ? What are you talking about ? And as I said, the AIB cards that perform well are also Bigger. By a huge margin. Not everyone wants big. You want something compact, that isn't build like a fisher price toy? There's the FE. You could also just ignore the FE, and go on your merry way. I don't understand why you get so angry about it. The people developing the FE are not the same people developing the GPU arch, Nvidia got enough money to hire actual specialist in their fields.

The FE is often the best way to get a good card without having to deal with retailers adding a premium on top of the premium. In France it's really a god send.

(The FE was also the only reason that I could grab the 3070 for the MSRP when everyone else was selling it for 1500€)

The reason the 3070 cost so much was because of crypto, not FE cards. In the US direct from NVIDIA was the only way to get the card for MSRP and I’m guess it’s the same in the EU. I’m not buying a 4060, but I pulled up a couple TP reviews and they compared the 4060 with another unbranded 4060, so I assume it’s an FE. Either way, it’s not a great card. But I can’t find a TP review where the FE card beats the AIB. I’m sure their out there though.

Go ahead and get all the FE cards your heart desires and happy gaming.

Not sure why you think I’m mad, I’m happy as a loon because it’s Friday!!!

FeelinFroggyThe reason the 3070 cost so much was because of crypto, not FE cards. In the US direct from NVIDIA was the only way to get the card for MSRP and I’m guess it’s the same in the EU. I’m not buying a 4060, but I pulled up a couple TP reviews and they compared the 4060 with another unbranded 4060, so I assume it’s an FE. Either way, it’s not a great card. But I can’t find a TP review where the FE card beats the AIB. I’m sure their out there though.

Go ahead and get all the FE cards your heart desires and happy gaming.

Not sure why you think I’m mad, I’m happy as a loon because it’s Friday!!!

It's not about the FE being the top dog?? No one ever claimed that they were. We just said that they aren't bad, and a viable option compared to the model of the past where they had to be actively avoided. I also never claimed that the FE were the reason for the high price of the GPU in the pandemic?? I just said that their existence was beneficial in that climate.
There's no 4060 FE. there's a 4060 ti FE though.

I will say it again: the FE are good cards at a compact size. They are not the absolute best, but they are among the smallest SKU that you can get, and in that category their performance is good. If you look at that graph, you'll notice that the GPUs with the lower temperatures are much bigger GPU (in length and height) with triple fans. The 4060ti FE beats the other dual fan. The TUF is 1% faster. wow. I'm impressed. Meanwhile Palit run hotter and louder without even getting a 1% advantage.





Have you even considered that the FE running at Nvidia specs is the reason as to why they are not going to run faster than a strix or a suprim ? The AiB are not running at stocks specifications, they are using more power by default, therefore they run faster. 2 or 3% faster. You can get an additional 5% more speed with an OC. But the FE also get a 5% improvement from an OC. But you talk as if you are getting a 15% speed increase over the FE. Many people even favor undervolt to get performance close to default, but at a much lower power consumption. Increasing the power limits give you little return. Even
der8auer think that the 4090 FE is already using more power than necessary. Yes, an overclocker tuned the 4090 to get 5% less performance, but a 33% reduction in power draw. In the current industry, "stock" is already pushing the silicon close to the limits, there's not much more performance to gain. That's valid for GPUs and CPUs.
Undervolted GeForce RTX 4090 Gets Benchmarked In Games With Impressive Results (hothardware.com)



In which world a cooler cooling at 64°C for 29dBA in a small size is bad? You are too self-centered mate. The beauty of DIY is that there's many people building computers for different reason. Not everyone is looking to squeeze the most out their chips while having to deal with a massive cooler. The people who want to build a small PC are not beneath you. And the FE are filling a market that most AiB are not covering adequately.