Wednesday, January 24th 2024
Details of Intel's Barlow Ridge Thunderbolt 5 Controller Leaks
erial leaker @yuuki_ans on X/Twitter has released details on Intel's upcoming Barlow Rridge Thunderbolt 5 controller which will be known as the JHL9580 or JHL9540 depending on the SKU. The good news is that Intel has finally moved to PCIe 4.0 for the bus interface, which was expected due to the increased bandwidth on offer by Thunderbolt 5 over Thunderbolt 3 and 4. Barlow Ridge will use a PCIe 4.0 x4 interface to connect to the host and it appears that the earlier leak that suggested native Thunderbolt support in Arrow Lake-S might be incorrect, as there are diagrams showing Barlow Ridge connected to Arrow Lake-S CPUs.
Besides the faster bus, Thunderbolt 5 brings asymmetrical data transmission support which means that for display applications there will be a 120/40 Gbps mode, whereas for data only applications Thunderbolt 5 will deliver a symmetrical 80 Gbps mode. We should point out that this only appears to apply to the JHL9580 SKU, which also supports 40 Gbps USB4 speeds, whereas the JHL9540 for some reason remains a Thunderbolt 4 controller. That said, both of the Barlow Ridge SKUs get support for 20 Gbps USB 3.2 Gen 2x2, something that was lacking in previous Thunderbolt implementations. There will also be support for DisplayPort 2.1 via DP Alt Mode with full UHBR20 support when used with a DP80 certified cable. Actual data transfers are limited to the 64 Gbps PCIe 4.0 interface to the host system, just like USB4, but this does at least give Thunderbolt 5 extra head room for display data even in symmetrical mode. The Barlow Ridge controllers appear to be connected directly to the Arrow Lake-S CPUs via the PCIe 4.0 x4 interface, much in the same way USB4 host controllers connect to AMD's Ryzen 7000-series CPUS.
Sources:
@yuuki_ans (post deleted), via VideoCardz
Besides the faster bus, Thunderbolt 5 brings asymmetrical data transmission support which means that for display applications there will be a 120/40 Gbps mode, whereas for data only applications Thunderbolt 5 will deliver a symmetrical 80 Gbps mode. We should point out that this only appears to apply to the JHL9580 SKU, which also supports 40 Gbps USB4 speeds, whereas the JHL9540 for some reason remains a Thunderbolt 4 controller. That said, both of the Barlow Ridge SKUs get support for 20 Gbps USB 3.2 Gen 2x2, something that was lacking in previous Thunderbolt implementations. There will also be support for DisplayPort 2.1 via DP Alt Mode with full UHBR20 support when used with a DP80 certified cable. Actual data transfers are limited to the 64 Gbps PCIe 4.0 interface to the host system, just like USB4, but this does at least give Thunderbolt 5 extra head room for display data even in symmetrical mode. The Barlow Ridge controllers appear to be connected directly to the Arrow Lake-S CPUs via the PCIe 4.0 x4 interface, much in the same way USB4 host controllers connect to AMD's Ryzen 7000-series CPUS.
12 Comments on Details of Intel's Barlow Ridge Thunderbolt 5 Controller Leaks
At least Intel finally added support for 20 Gbps USB 3.2 Gen 2x2.
Now… “Ah yes, this port is a USB three point two generation two and two by two port”. Very cool, thank you USB-IF.
The Intel 14th Gen HX mobile CPUs announced a couple of weeks ago feature Thunderbolt 5 support. At the launch in September there was a working prototype Gigabyte HX laptop using Barlow Ridge.
Some of the "leaked" documentation looks like it could have been adapted from the technical data supplied to the laptop companies for the HX chips. For example "Arrow Lake S DDR5 SODIMM" - SODIMMs are used by laptops not desktops?
www.amazon.com/Charging-Compatible-Thunderbolt-Transfer-Charger/dp/B0BNL1WGWJ/Thanks, I was clearly not awake this morning when I wrote it, so my brain wanted it to be Bridge... Also, the redrivers/retimers are Hayden Bridge, which caused further brain confusion on my behalf. :oops:
No public details are available though, hence why it's a leak, since these are clearly from confidential documents.I was referring to this earlier leak, but it still looks like native Thunderbolt support, but only up to 40 Gbps. Maybe we'll get both? I guess even this could be Thunderbolt 5 based on what's mentioned in the Barlow Ridge specs.
www.techpowerup.com/318068/detailed-intel-arrow-lake-s-platform-specifications-leaked-confirms-native-thunderbolt-4-supportTrue, though some industrial/embedded boards use them too.
I am looking now on Gigabyte's website to check specs for 17X laptops with HX CPUs. None of them has TB5 port. It's nonsense.
The problem is that Nvidia GPUs do not support DP 2.1 but only older DP 1.4.
Where is Barlow Ridge supposed to take 80 Gbps video signal from? From iGPU on $3,500 laptop?
The Razor Blade 18 has a 14th gen Raptor Lake processor, it is likely that around this time next year there will be an Arrow Lake replacement for the current HX mobile chips. It may be that TB5 will be standard rather than an option for the AR mobile processors, whether this will also extend to desktop Arrow Lake is not clear at this stage.
The source of the graphic below is Intel from the launch for the Core 14th Gen HX mobile processors in January
It seems to me that we might have three main SKUs, like in previous generations:
- 'JHL9380' - not yet seen, single port, but it might emerge at some point...
- JHL9580 - dual port TB5 controller with symetrical Tx/Rx 80 Gbps, plus dynamic Tx/Rx allocation 120/40 Gbps
- JHL9480 - quad port chip in upcoming docks, 1-in-3-out, symetrical Tx/Rx 80 Gbps and dynamic Tx/Rx 120/40 Gbps
zhuanlan-zhihu-com.translate.goog/p/656004618?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US&_x_tr_pto=wapp
*JHL9540 - this one is so weird; the leak you mentioned suggests refreshed TB4 controller that could be also attached to retimer Hayden Bridge to allow UHBR10 bandwidth at 40 Gbps from CPU or GPU, mainly on laptops, but also from desktop Arrow Lake CPU, as shown above. Puzzling chip, indeed.
Below are all TB5 docks annouced at CES, as you probably know. Those should feature linked quad port controller JHL9480, unless there is an unlikely hybrid solution with two JHL9580 chips on PCB.
TB5 dock - HyperDrive
TB5 dock - Good Way DBF7050
TB5 dock - j5create JTD5172
TB5 dock - Kensington SD5000T5
TB5 dock - IOGear Quantum Pro GTD58K3TAA
TB5 dock - OWCI looked into this too. This spec from Razer is so confusing. How can there be Thunderbolt 5 port with DP 1.4 signal? It just does not make sense, unless Intel has watered down the spec of TB5. The only way to currently feed Barlow Ridge controller with DP 2.1 video from dGPU is from AMD 7000 cards. No other discrete GPU product supports DP 2.1ARL will have integrated TB4. For TB5 integreation into iGPU, we will need to wait until either Panther Lake or later.I know this one, but the graphic is just marketing... it says nothing about real solutions. And current solutions look so confusing and convoluted.