Anyone know if Rufus gets around the SSE4.2 issue with Windows 11 24H2?

[Shrek]

Sure, but if you are eventually replacing, not much sense going with old tech since you're likely to keep the new system for a long time too.

Absolutely; I just wanted to know how much life was left in this old unit, as there is no way I'll waste money on Windows 10 security updates after 2025.

 

[dgianstefani]

Absolutely; I just wanted to know how much life was left in this old unit, as there is no way I'll waste money on Windows 10 security updates after 2025.

There's the LTSC IoT option which has support till 2032.

 

[Wirko]

no way I'll waste money on Windows 10 security updates after 2025.

Follow the license reseller ads on the web site called "TPU". Tea-pea-yew. I'm sure they'll have some sweet deals for us at that time.

 

[Shrek]

There's the LTSC IoT option which has support till 2032.

Very true, and I may well take that option; but I wanted to be sure the Windows 11 route was closed.

Follow the license reseller ads on the web site called "TPU". I'm sure they'll have some sweet deals for us at that time.

A most excellent point and if the price was right, I might take that route, but I think they are selling licences from retired machines, so the same mechanism might not work here.

 

[Dr. Dro]

Very, very nice; much appreciated.

Since you've been kicking around with a Core 2 to this day, you clearly don't game much on your PC, so why not build a Raptor Lake system with an Intel 300 processor? Sure, to most of us here it's a weaksauce dual core, but it's gonna scream past your CPU in overall performance (since each of those P-cores probably perform about as high as an entire Q9650's computing prowess if not more), and it'll leave you wide open to some inexpensive i9's soon (some people will upgrade every generation and you can usually get a good deal there).

Get a nice Z790 motherboard, a proper 32 GB DDR5 kit, an adequate graphics card and that CPU as a stopgap measure until you're able to score a nice CPU on the cheap

 

[Shrek]

It's gonna be fun upgrading... and you guys will keep me from doing something stupid... I keep telling myself I will get more into gaming, but talk is cheap.

Figuring out a USB C cable or updating a power supply to twin bridge rectifiers, replacing the switches on a mouse; that is my sort of entertainment.

 

[Pasi123]

With Windows 10 (IoT) LTSC 2021 Core2 Quads will be usable for many more years. It's surprising how fast those old C2Q's still are for general web browsing etc, they don't feel that slow even when compared to my i9-10900X.

 

[Dr. Dro]

With Windows 10 (IoT) LTSC 2021 Core2 Quads will be usable for many more years. It's surprising how fast those old C2Q's still are for general web browsing etc, they don't feel that slow even when compared to my i9-10900X.

I'm not sure, that is rather presumptuous, since web browsers will most definitely drop Windows 10 support once the OS falls into disrepair, which should be relatively soon. "Many more years" isn't a guarantee anyone can back to current Windows 10 users, because the entire point of making Windows a rolling release OS was/is to get rid of stubborn holdouts. The reason Windows LTSC 2021 hasn't yet is because it shares the same kernel with the final consumer release of Windows 10, which is already a few years out of date at this point. It was not intended, designed, nor capable of accommodating years of updates like Windows 7 could. This was never a design goal of Windows 10, from the very beginning.

Web developers have been persistent in trying to support older OSes as much as they can, but once browsers and more specifically, Chromium drops support, it's all over. Try using macOS High Sierra nowadays and you'll see exactly what I mean, it's perhaps the most egregious example of an otherwise perfectly modern operating system that increasingly has trouble dealing with something as basic as the internet.

 

[theFOoL]

My 775 system works perfectly fine with WIN11 but I'm in the process of trying to get 24H2 to install with minimal success but I'm not giving up

 

[DaemonForce]

This is the 2nd time in a week I've read anything about SSE4.2 and I don't understand the issue.

Anything 15+ years ago is out of the loop and GOOD.
Anything made within the past 10, YOU GOOD.
That Core 2 Quad Q9550 is older than my Athlon and feature locked. Win11 is just not meant to be.

 

[Pasi123]

I'm not sure, that is rather presumptuous, since web browsers will most definitely drop Windows 10 support once the OS falls into disrepair, which should be relatively soon. "Many more years" isn't a guarantee anyone can back to current Windows 10 users, because the entire point of making Windows a rolling release OS was/is to get rid of stubborn holdouts. The reason Windows LTSC 2021 hasn't yet is because it shares the same kernel with the final consumer release of Windows 10, which is already a few years out of date at this point. It was not intended, designed, nor capable of accommodating years of updates like Windows 7 could. This was never a design goal of Windows 10, from the very beginning.

Web developers have been persistent in trying to support older OSes as much as they can, but once browsers and more specifically, Chromium drops support, it's all over. Try using macOS High Sierra nowadays and you'll see exactly what I mean, it's perhaps the most egregious example of an otherwise perfectly modern operating system that increasingly has trouble dealing with something as basic as the internet.

Even the first LTSB version from 2015 still receives security updates up to the same day as the last mainstream version of Win10 (22H2). And the newest IoT LTSC 2021 will receive security updates up to 2032. I doubt Chromium will drop support anytime soon considering how many still use Win10 and can't even "upgrade" to Win11 due to the high system requirements (Intel 8th gen or AMD Zen+).
Microsoft will also sell Extended Security Updates to regular customers up to October 2028, though that's quite expensive.

macOS has never had anywhere near as long support as Windows

 

[Shrek]

It killed me that they replaced my 5 year old iMac at work because it no longer supported the latest Mac OS

I used to be a Mac fan but jumped ship when they started gluing things shut.

 

[Dr. Dro]

My 775 system works perfectly fine with WIN11 but I'm in the process of trying to get 24H2 to install with minimal success but I'm not giving up

Fool's errand. It's physically impossible to execute these instructions on both Conroe and Wolfdale.

It killed me that they replaced my 5 year old iMac at work because it no longer supported the latest Mac OS

I used to be a Mac fan but jumped ship when they started gluing things shut.

Is it really 5 years old? I specifically mentioned macOS High Sierra earlier because it is the latest that my Core 2 Duo Mac mini supports (it's a mid-2010 model), and High Sierra is 2018's annual release. The 2018-2019 Macs are the last with Intel processors and they run both Monterey and Sonoma natively. That's eight years, and by then, a laptop Penryn processor with an integrated GPU that's functionally equivalent to a GT 220 sans dedicated memory was already an ancient relic.

Even the first LTSB version from 2015 still receives security updates up to the same day as the last mainstream version of Win10 (22H2). And the newest IoT LTSC 2021 will receive security updates up to 2032. I doubt Chromium will drop support anytime soon considering how many still use Win10 and can't even "upgrade" to Win11 due to the high system requirements (Intel 8th gen or AMD Zen+).
Microsoft will also sell Extended Security Updates to regular customers up to October 2028, though that's quite expensive.

macOS has never had anywhere near as long support as Windows

Keyword security. It's completely incompatible with newer hardware, try to install even the 2016 LTSB onto a now ~4 year old Zen 3/Ampere previous-generation system, and you won't be able to. Drivers were never developed for those versions, the kernel is incompatible with the newer drivers that support this hardware. This has always been the problem with LTS versions of Windows 10. They are completely lacking forward-compatibility, which means you'll have a hard time replacing your hardware in case of failure.

This is the 2nd time in a week I've read anything about SSE4.2 and I don't understand the issue.

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Anything 15+ years ago is out of the loop and GOOD.
Anything made within the past 10, YOU GOOD.
That Core 2 Quad Q9550 is older than my Athlon and feature locked. Win11 is just not meant to be.

That 65 nm Athlon is a K8 architecture processor. Despite being a newer revision, its foundation goes back to 2003. It's understandable that it doesn't support modern instructions whatsoever, an excuse that the AMD K10 architecture used on Phenom and Phenom II doesn't have. K10 dates from 2007 and only has Intel-compatible SSE2. The higher versions of SSE are often conditional or AMD-specific, in particular SSE4A. Interestingly, I believe it supports POPCNT, one of the instructions that this new build of Windows demands. But like I said, support was incomplete and/or conditional for many instructions on AMD processors during this time frame.

This architecture also does not support Supplemental SSE3 (SSSE3 with 3 S's), which are the "Conroe New Instructions", introduced with 65 nm Core 2. The 45 nm refresh of Core 2 added SSE4.1, and 4.2 was added with Nehalem (1st generation Core i7) in 2008. By the time Phenom II X6 (Thuban and the cutdown Zosma X4) launched, AMD had a slow and dated processor that couldn't hope to compete with Sandy Bridge, and they were also at a severe disadvantage in instruction set support, and this mostly reflected in video encoders which are very SIMD-heavy. This was known even in the earliest days to be a problem, look at the video encoding performance discrepancy between Kentsfield and Yorkfield:

Intel Core 2 Extreme QX9650 - Penryn Ticks Ahead

www.anandtech.com

Compatibility-wise, it didn't matter too much as most software still supported older machines at the time, but later on it caused severe issues with many games flat out refusing to run on Phenom due to its lack of support for the instructions, not that such pitifully weak processor would ever achieve an acceptable experience regardless... but gamers like their slop, what can I say.

Anyhow, this turned around with Bulldozer, despite its weak performance, Bulldozer had a comprehensive (at the time) instruction set, closing the gap with Sandy Bridge (including AVX) and it even supports F16C, which was only added with Ivy Bridge (the 2012 3rd gen Core CPUs), and a tradition that continued with Ryzen, AMD's got the best instruction set support in Zen 4 currently. Notably, F16C instruction set is demanded by some of the very latest PC games (such as Horizon Forbidden West), which doesn't run on the i7-2600K but will run (read: run, don't expect it to be playable) on an FX-8150, requiring the i7-3770K on the Intel side to even boot.

In general, Haswell has become the bare minimum nowadays: 256-bit AVX2, F16C, POPCNT and all the rest. It's not an unreasonable request, these 4th Gen Intel chips are now eleven years old. Think back when Windows 7 came out in 2009, an 11 year old PC would mean a machine from 1998, and those would barely run Windows 2000 well. You needed to disable some of the visual enhancements in XP just to get your ATI Mach64 with 2 MB to output anything correctly, so I'd say we've come a long way, no?

 

[Pasi123]

Keyword security. It's completely incompatible with newer hardware, try to install even the 2016 LTSB onto a now ~4 year old Zen 3/Ampere previous-generation system, and you won't be able to. Drivers were never developed for those versions, the kernel is incompatible with the newer drivers that support this hardware. This has always been the problem with LTS versions of Windows 10. They are completely lacking forward-compatibility, which means you'll have a hard time replacing your hardware in case of failure.

But we were talking about a Core2 Quad, not some hardware newer than the OS. Even if you had something like a graphics card fail in a C2Q system you likely wouldn't be buying something so new that doesn't support LTSC 2021. Network cards etc. usually have drivers for older OS versions.
The latest NVIDIA and AMD graphics drivers still support Windows 10 LTSC 2019 (1809) and most likely the next generation cards will still support Win10, likely back to 1909/2004 if not 1809. Windows 7 got drivers for up to RTX 30-series and RX 6000 series.

I'm going to use LTSC 2021 on my X299 system for as long as possible and at some point switch to Linux.

 

[Beginner Macro Device]

5#00X3D

If OP doesn't play games it's better to have a non-X3D variant. Will be much cheaper and more efficient. 7700X is parring in games and is much faster in everything that's not games so I'd go for it rather than for 5x00X3D.

 

[theFOoL]

I mean it's been a while since update of Rufus. Maybe they are looking into something we don't know. I do use WINTOUSB but no updates to bypass

 

[chrcoluk]

Upgrade it is then... much to look forward to.

You cant downgrade windows?

I'm not sure, that is rather presumptuous, since web browsers will most definitely drop Windows 10 support once the OS falls into disrepair, which should be relatively soon. "Many more years" isn't a guarantee anyone can back to current Windows 10 users, because the entire point of making Windows a rolling release OS was/is to get rid of stubborn holdouts. The reason Windows LTSC 2021 hasn't yet is because it shares the same kernel with the final consumer release of Windows 10, which is already a few years out of date at this point. It was not intended, designed, nor capable of accommodating years of updates like Windows 7 could. This was never a design goal of Windows 10, from the very beginning.

Web developers have been persistent in trying to support older OSes as much as they can, but once browsers and more specifically, Chromium drops support, it's all over. Try using macOS High Sierra nowadays and you'll see exactly what I mean, it's perhaps the most egregious example of an otherwise perfectly modern operating system that increasingly has trouble dealing with something as basic as the internet.

Microsoft will maintain the OS, it is just they will eventually restrict which builds get the patches, it will be maintained for almost another decade.

Given the user base for Windows 10, I expect mainstream browsers to work on it for at least 3-4 years after the basic retail goes EOL. It will last far longer than Windows 8 did, which didnt even out last Windows 7 vendor support.

Microsoft have created a problem again of a largely split user base, their decision to have a long standing major release ironically was a good one, 10s issue was mainly that when first released it was far from ready, then when they finally stabilised it, they announced 11 lol. In a couple of years time users will be split over 10, 11 and 12 and I expect even then 10 will have more users than 11.

Regardless of when it happens I will be on 10 right up to the last moment its usable, there is simply no benefit for me, (only UI regressions) for me to change to 11.

There is also no killer feature I am aware off on 11, 10 at least had DX12.

Of course some anti consumer moves will happen like new hardware having no drivers for anything but 11 and 12. Like when the coffee lake drivers vanished over night for 8.

 

[Shrek]

Microsoft will maintain the OS, it is just they will eventually restrict which builds get the patches, it will be maintained for almost another decade.

Given the user base for Windows 10, I expect mainstream browsers to work on it for at least 3-4 years after the basic retail goes EOL.

Looks like no new hardware for me then unless I feel the need, the need for speed.

 

[Space Lynx]

I am concerned that my Core 2 Quad will not support Windows 11

Anyone know if Rufus gets around the SSE4.2 issue with Windows 11 24H2? (yes, I looked at the Rufus FAQ)

Windows 11 24H2 goes from “unsupported” to “unbootable” on some older PCs | Ars Technica

Nothing is meant to last forever, just upgrade mang.

Hell, my Dad loves his Intel N100 $179 Chuwi mini desktop. Does everything he needs it to, and if your gpu is a gtx 1030, my guess is gaming isn't a big deal to you.

 

[Darmok N Jalad]

I get it, shrek. I have an Ivy Bridge-E build that runs great, but it's not an official W11 platform, though current W11 runs perfectly on it (and I guess maybe 24H2 will too). And the parts are so cheap now. You can get 6,8,10, or 12 core CPU for around $30 or less, and DDR3 ECC is also ridiculously cheap--32GB for $35. Oh well, this system also runs Ubuntu 24.04 just dandy, so I guess I'm not too worried if MS takes a dump on my legacy rig. It is sad, though, as these systems are perfectly useable, and with a modern-ish GPU, are still pretty capable gamers. For CPU, motherboard, RAM, and GPU (5600XT), I'm in for maybe $200.

 

[:D:D]

Depending on why you want W11 what about QEMU?

I remember about 5 years ago Fedora Linux were contemplating AVX2 as a requirement but got shot down by many users.

Different code paths can be written for those that have certain features and those that do not with usually a small overhead.

 

[Shihab]

Different code paths can be written for those that have certain features and those that do not with usually a small overhead.

You're assuming that the instructions in question are explicitly coded for via some intrinsic, not a compiler flag.
Sure, MS can fill the code with ifs and ifndefs for the former (and that still won't be easy for a codebase as large as Windows'), but doing so for automatic vectorization would be... counter productive? defeating the purpose? Not sure what to call it. tbh.