Apple Vision Pro seems very dissapointing

[dir_d]

Despite not being that impressive or new, it simply does everything the Q3* does (but better), it has still impacted the world, somewhat. I mean, what other product release will get people in jail for driving a car with vision impairing equipment?

* I meant Q3, accidentally typed Q2 originally.

650 Q3 vs 3500 Vision pro though. You should expect more.

 

[theouto]

650 Q3 vs 3500 Vision pro though. You should expect more.

And it is a hell of a lot more.

 

[evernessince]

Despite not being that impressive or new, it simply does everything the Q3* does (but better), it has still impacted the world, somewhat. I mean, what other product release will get people in jail for driving a car with vision impairing equipment?

* I meant Q3, accidentally typed Q2 originally.

The Quest 3 has a superior FOV, less lense distortion, the controllers are a lot more reliable than hand tracking and enable more functionality, and the quest 3 has a vastly more robust app ecosystem.

Mind you the Apple Vision Pro isn't competing again the Quest 3. The former is $3,500 while the latter is $500, people need to stop making the comparison. In reality it's competing against other business and enterprise class HMDs like the Varjo XR-4. The XR-4 of which has a higher screen resolution, better passthrough, and vastly better optics (even their last gen Aero had vastly superior optics).

And it is a hell of a lot more.

The above points tend to disagree

There are other major issues with VR headsets. The weight of course but also the fact that your eyeballs are basically focused on a screen for long periods of time. Human eyes need rest, just switching from a monitor to a point farther away for a short period reduces eye strain.

Varifocal lenses will solve this particular issue. Oculus has created prototypes but getting the mechanics robust enough for a consumer headset has thus far been difficult.

 

[cvaldes]

Varifocal lenses will solve this particular issue. Oculus has created prototypes but getting the mechanics robust enough for a consumer headset has thus far been difficult.

Well, it's just vaporware until it ships.

And once it does ship we'll see how well varifocal lenses helps alleviate this issue. My guess is that it will help some people more than others, just like any medical technology. It most certainly will not be a cure-all for everyone forever, that's for sure.

And that's only one of the comfort issues. There are still weight, heat, and ventilation issues along with HMD support factors.

I utterly despise things wrapped around my head (like headphones, ski goggles, scuba masks, swim goggles, bicycle helmets, whatever). Even lightweight items that are pretty well ventilated (baseball cat, tennis visor) are issues after a while. They all hurt after a while and I *KNOW* I am not alone. I'm also certain that there are others with far less tolerance than me.

Again, this is not the fault of the HMD manufacturers. It's just an inherent shortcoming with this type of Human Interface Device. Just like latex/nitrile surgical gloves become uncomfortably sweaty after a while.

I still use my Oculus Rift S. I just limit usage to about 30-45 minutes ideally.

It's similar to how I do regular computing. I won't stare at a monitor more than an hour. I get out of my chair, look at something else, maybe refill my water glass. There's no way in hell I'd stare at a damned screen for hours and hours with a liter water bottle.

The blue light reducing eyeglasses on my face weigh 27 grams and I still take a break every hour or so from them. Can VR HMD manufacturers get their devices down to that weight range? I'll wait but I won't hold my breath.

 

[evernessince]

Well, it's just vaporware until it ships.

And once it does ship we'll see how well varifocal lenses helps alleviate this issue. My guess is that it will help some people more than others, just like any medical technology. It most certainly will not be a cure-all for everyone forever, that's for sure.

And that's only one of the comfort issues. There are still weight, heat, and ventilation issues along with HMD support factors.

I utterly despise things wrapped around my head (like headphones, ski goggles, scuba masks, swim goggles, bicycle helmets, whatever). Even lightweight items that are pretty well ventilated (baseball cat, tennis visor) are issues after a while. They all hurt after a while and I *KNOW* I am not alone. I'm also certain that there are others with far less tolerance than me.

Again, this is not the fault of the HMD manufacturers. It's just an inherent shortcoming with this type of Human Interface Device. Just like latex/nitrile surgical gloves become uncomfortably sweaty after a while.

I still use my Oculus Rift S. I just limit usage to about 30-45 minutes ideally.

It's similar to how I do regular computing. I won't stare at a monitor more than an hour. I get out of my chair, look at something else, maybe refill my water glass. There's no way in hell I'd stare at a damned screen for hours and hours with a liter water bottle.

The blue light reducing eyeglasses on my face weigh 27 grams and I still take a break every hour or so from them. Can VR HMD manufacturers get their devices down to that weight range? I'll wait but I won't hold my breath.

Well Google glass was released at 36 grams all the way back in 2015 so it's certainly possible. The problem is how much compute power you can pack into such a light form factor as you need powerful hardware to enable good experiences. It may be wise for companies to approach the headwear like a display and sensor array and to have the compute elsewhere. That's difficult though given the latency sensitive nature of these devices. There needs to be several large advancements to make HMDs viable for use outside the home and Apple has provided none of them here.

 

[cvaldes]

Introducing failed Google Glass into this conversation is definitely disingenuous at best.

Apple didn't claim to have solved any of the major VR HMD issues in any case. I just pointed them out, they exist for *ALL* VR companies.

Remember: I don't have a problem with VR as a conceptual technology. I own a pitiful Rift S. But at least the Rift S didn't set me back $3.5K.

I just don't think that this can be anything more than a complimentary computing device based on numerous shortcomings that the entire genre poses at this time. There is certainly an audience for this type of technology.

All Apple did is say "here is our version, it costs $3499." I know it is very fashionable on the Internet (including TPU) to slam Apple. That's fine, I know a lot of people will do that because it's the only thing they can think of. Just ask CmdrTaco (Slashdot) if he wishes he had bought AAPL when he slammed Apple for the iPod.

But it's not like Microsoft has a better candidate. And we all know how well Google is with hardware...

Ahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Anyhow I've contributed all that I can at this point. I'll see you around when Apple releases their 2nd generation device.

The iPod and iPad were both labeled overpriced and underwhelming when they debuted. The people over at RIM, Nokia, and Microsoft scoffed at the iPhone... Right.

In the end, it's not going to be about hardware specs anyhow. It'll be about software implementation.

 

[Octavean]

I actually agree with this comment and will state the following. I used to own/work on a Mac SE 30. At a time when Apple was creative. I used Comicworks 1.0/1.01 for my speech bubbles while I was in that sector of the entertainment industry. Back then the Rabid Apple nubs were called " Mac Marines" that were in the "Steve Jobs Reality Distortion Field" in buying expensive products from Apple.

But what killed them was the expensive software to run on their expensive Hardware. It was because of that I went Wintel. I was not going to spend 1 to 2K on Quark Express when I can get most of what I need on Corel Draw/Paint/other inexpensive software during that time. Screw that noise.

That is what killed Apple and lost the computer war/industry ( fact Microsoft gave Job's 150 million so Apple would not fold and MS would not be labeled as a Full monopoly, which did not work).

So yes. I look at now at people who uses Mac Products with distain, very similar to your comment.

This is likely true for some people but you can't necessarily cram everyone in that camp. If you're a hammer all you see is nails. In other words this is someone's view and they have reasons for it but it isn't always applicable.

I say this because I know a number of developers / programmers and my Wife is one as well.

Employers may allow some or all of their employees to work on their preferred platform (hardware) but some may insist on the use of their on chosen platform. So I know people who started off on PC for work but then had to migrate to Mac because their employer insisted on it. Those employers often subsidized the cost of the Mac or outright purchased the Macs themselves (locked them down in various ways via the IT department) then distributed them to the employees. Also of note, once such Macs become old and its time to upgrade and or the employee is ready to move on to another company, they often don't even want the Macs back. I've got at least 3 older MacBook Pros around here because of this practice.

Those looking for validation and status through apple products are likely buying the hardware themselves rather then having them foisted upon them.

 

[apllepersonnnn]

I love how people ripping on Apple products either have never owned one or are talking about 20 year old Apple stuff...too funny! I'm a software engineer and did IT and network admin for years, I simply got tired of bringing my work home with me and decided I'd try all the options before forming a judgement. Once I owned my Powerbook G4 I never looked back.

I got a Vision Pro 2 days after launch, split the cost with my gf. Absolutely the best execution hands down. Reading a list of specs != experience. There is 0 motion sickness with this thing. I've worn it for 3+ hours. The realtime subsystem is flawless and I've never seen it stutter once. If your head is upside down in near total darkness sometimes it will say "tracking failed". Other than that, this thing is rock solid.

crashed the OS (trying 3-4 accessibility features at once) but it's obvious the passthrough is a completely separate system that is not impacted by anything you do with the device. I believe that's how they reduce any motion sickness issues, along with the software that is clearly designed to ground you in reality at all times. It was 2-3 weeks after purchasing it that I realized I hadn't felt even slightly queasy at all. With my Oculus after about an hour I was "done". I'm not prone to motion sickness, only ever get it flying sideways at 700mph in Google Earth or other VR experiences.

The Vision Pro is really designed around 1 person per device so just bought a 2nd hand one for my gf so we each have one. I use this thing all the time. It's basically an iPad, but way better. This makes the ipad basically obsolete except as a remote viewing device for friends trying out the Vision Pro.

It's also insanely good as a monitor for my laptop. I was extremely skeptical this would even be included in the 1.0 release. But it works and works flawlessly, besides only allowing a single monitor. You can use your trackpad and keyboard across all apps, mac and vision. Can't use eye tracking in MacOS yet but looking forward to that. Everything is simply crystal clear. It somehow looks even more high res than real life.

FOV, lack of clarity at edges, LOL. Things I had never thought of a single time using the device. You put it on. You log in. You've immediately got all your messages, notes, password autofill, yadda yadda, you can install any ipad app along with vision apps...I expected to be disappointed in some way. I have high standards. This thing rocketed past my expectations. They knocked it out of the park on this one. This will be as revolutionary as the iphone. My guess is the 3rd device will be the one that hits the sweet spot of weight and affordability ($1500 or less, 1/2 the weight).

I use Apple stuff, I use Linux, I have an Android phone so I can run some apps that Apple blocked (apparently android apps can scrape all wifi data by default, even with wifi "off"! Apple doesn't allow this). I even run Windows when I have to. I've never really heard a compelling argument against Apple except for "expensive for specs" and "people who like Apple are annoying". I find it weird that those things would matter much to "tech enthusiasts". If Microsoft makes a great product, I appreciate it. If Google makes one, I appreciate it. Don't let others dictate what you appreciate. I think Apple fans are often annoying knowitalls. But that doesn't factor into my TECH decisions.

Maybe people are worried someone will think they're a dumb Apple fan? I don't know - everyone should use what they like. But if you've never owned a Mac and an iphone and an ipad at the same time you really cant say whether you like them or not. Using a Mac 30 years ago is nothing like using a mac today. Using an iphone for a year is not the same as using an iphone with a mac and an ipad. They each build on the strengths of the others.

So if you want to really shut down the Apple fanboys, get on ebay and grab an ipad pro (< $150), an iphone 11 or newer (<$250), and an Apple Silicon mac (~$700). If you really want to shove their noses in it, grab a 13.6" m2 air. Then you can speak from a place of experience. It would help if the criticism came from a place of experience because it just feels so childish and "hater"ish for lack of a better term. We watch with bemused smiles for a moment and move on. You should too.

 

[pavle]

One word, plasticrap.

 

[WhiteNoise]

I can't imagine walking around in public with the Apple ski goggles on my head. Just No. Don't get me started on the price tag.

I love VR and I look forward to VR evolving in the coming years but this to me is not the next step.

 

[apllepersonnnn]

This model really isn’t meant for casual users or walking around in public. This model is for people who can spend $4k on a whim. The technology doesn’t exist to build what Apple wants to build, so they’re essentially releasing a dev kit to kick start the app ecosystem and drum up enthusiasm / hype.

The brilliant thing is that the price is ridiculous on purpose. They achieve what they wanted - ship a solid v1. But rather than start selling it at $1500 and have a bunch of complainers buy it and start going on about how there aren’t enough apps and feature XYZ doesn't exist yet, they simply priced them out.

They get some user feedback, the users who can afford one are happy with it because no one is scrimping and saving so they can spend $4k on a gen1 device, everyone else is either talking about wanting one or talking about how much they probably suck, but they’re talking about it. Win win win for everyone.

 

[Fokker]

This model really isn’t meant for casual users or walking around in public. This model is for people who can spend $4k on a whim. The technology doesn’t exist to build what Apple wants to build, so they’re essentially releasing a dev kit to kick start the app ecosystem and drum up enthusiasm / hype.

The brilliant thing is that the price is ridiculous on purpose. They achieve what they wanted - ship a solid v1. But rather than start selling it at $1500 and have a bunch of complainers buy it and start going on about how there aren’t enough apps and feature XYZ doesn't exist yet, they simply priced them out.

They get some user feedback, the users who can afford one are happy with it because no one is scrimping and saving so they can spend $4k on a gen1 device, everyone else is either talking about wanting one or talking about how much they probably suck, but they’re talking about it. Win win win for everyone.

Apple slashes Vision Pro production, might cancel 2025 model in response to plummeting demand

We heard over the weekend that the Vision Pro headset Apple spent eight years and billions of dollars developing was rapidly losing steam in terms of both...

www.techspot.com

Kuo: Apple cuts Vision Pro shipments, now 'reviewing and adjusting' headset strategy - 9to5Mac

Apple has slashed its shipping estimates for Vision Pro, according to a new Ming-Chi Kuo analyst report. Kuo says that...

9to5mac.com

 

[apllepersonnnn]

Apple is actually having trouble keeping up with demand. I had an issue with my Vision Pro (totally my fault) and I wanted to do an Express Replacement (a service Apple offers on some devices where they ship you a new unit instead of waiting for it to be repaired and sent back). I was told that Express Replacement was available earlier but due to lack of inventory it no longer is an option. This was 2 days ago and I was told this by a senior support engineer at Apple. Sure they might have low demand, but my guess is it doesn't really matter because they have low yield too (the postage stamp sized 4k OLEDs apparently have yield problems).

Anyone who seriously believed they'd sell 1 million in the first year was smoking crack. I don't believe for a moment Tim Cook or the rest of Apple leadership seriously believed a million people would pay $4k for any device. I could guess the high forecasts were to appease investors or maybe employees but it's silly to guess and naive to assume they were caught off guard.

I could foresee them skipping a 2025 model to focus on bringing down costs, improving ergonomics, and improving the software. Like I said, when it costs around $1500 and weighs roughly 1/2 what it does now, this thing is going to take off like a rocket. It will be within 5 years and likely change the world nearly as much as smartphones.

 

[Athlonite]

It's an apple product did you expect anything great from them if you did then you might just have been captured by the Steve Jobs Reality Distortion Field (now powered by the new M4 cpu)

 

[apllepersonnnn]

Anti-Apple people are so weird. It's not like people who eat at McDonalds go into a sit down restaurant and start arguments about how the food is just as good at McDonalds but so much cheaper, and anyone who eats there is just a shmuck who is only there because "marketing". Go eat your McDonalds and be happy that you're satisfied with it. It's certainly more convenient to have a low bar than a high bar. You should be grateful.

 

[Fokker]

Watch some Louis Rossmann repair videos, iFixit videos, or any number of people who work on these devices for a living. Apple advocates are like vegans; they're always down to tell you how superior their choice is and how you should convert. You like Apple products and that's fine, but don't pretend they're a premium product. They're just a PC in a fancy wrapper that they charge 2-3 times as much for.

 

[Dr. Dro]

Anti-Apple people are so weird. It's not like people who eat at McDonalds go into a sit down restaurant and start arguments about how the food is just as good at McDonalds but so much cheaper, and anyone who eats there is just a shmuck who is only there because "marketing". Go eat your McDonalds and be happy that you're satisfied with it. It's certainly more convenient to have a low bar than a high bar. You should be grateful.

Expecting people in tech forums to be welcoming to companies such as Apple and Nvidia is never gonna go well, trust me on this one. Let's use AMD as an example, TPU in particular has a large patronage of users who are historically fans of AMD and their once-upon-a-time, value-oriented mindset (which lasted until they released the first CPU lineup that left Intel in the dirt). Even though AMD has long since abandoned this practice, they still stick to AMD because they think that between spoiled and rotten, they'll go with the one that has fewer blemishes, thus perpetuating the cycle. Radeon vs. GeForce, same deal, just read any review where AMD is even slightly ahead and it's all met with fanfare and how they're doing amazing - it's like they need every victory they can get, it's parts of amusing and parts of boring.

People will always come up with myriad reasons as to why an Android phone will always be better than an iPhone, or that you could build a high-performing gaming PC with the price of a Mac, and they'll never accept being told otherwise. The Vision Pro's subject to the same type of criticism against other more affordable, but certainly worse supported and arguably lower-quality, although lower-cost products. There are those of us who are reasonably open-minded, but open support of these companies is largely taboo for the same reason: they know their products' worth and have no shame in charging for them.

In general, don't pay it much mind. If I didn't need to pay my American Express off at the end of every month, I'd not have my (honestly awesome) i9 gaming PC, i'd probably have a tricked out Mac Pro.

Watch some Louis Rossmann repair videos, iFixit videos, or any number of people who work on these devices for a living. Apple advocates are like vegans; they're always down to tell you how superior their choice is and how you should convert. You like Apple products and that's fine, but don't pretend they're a premium product. They're just a PC in a fancy wrapper that they charge 2-3 times as much for.

Oh Apple very, very much is a premium brand offering premium products, they make it a point to position themselves as a company that sells a lifestyle, and not mere tech products.

 

[Fokker]

Oh Apple very, very much is a premium brand offering premium products, they make it a point to position themselves as a company that sells a lifestyle, and not mere tech products.

There's nothing premium about sticking a ~42V backlight line next to a ~1.5V line leading directly to your CPU and then lying to your customers about it. They sell a lifestyle and a premium image. The actual product isn't any more premium than devices costing a fraction of theirs.

 

[Hyderz]

apple themselves aren't even sure of themselves whos the target market for vision pro...
there was mentioned of people in the industry such has researchers etc...

but from a practicality point of view, i feel its more of nuisance than useful tool, if you are working longhours... i dont want to imagine the fatigue...
but yeah.... this will be a collectors item if apple cant sell enough for second generation..

 

[Dr. Dro]

There's nothing premium about sticking a ~42V backlight line next to a ~1.5V line leading directly to your CPU and then lying to your customers about it. They sell a lifestyle and a premium image. The actual product isn't any more premium than devices costing a fraction of theirs.

Well, point in case: my old MacBook Pro was built out of anodized aluminum, precision machined. Glossy screen with a tempered glass front. Magnetic charger port. Internal battery had a physical meter, it had built in card reader, two jacks instead of a combo 3.5, etc. This was back in 2012. My 2021 Dell G15 is arguably a much better computer... in the computer bits. And that's because it's 9 years newer. Otherwise it`s cheap flimsy plastic, the display panel is directly exposed, there's no battery meter, ole DC jack, etc.

At least Dell put a colorful backlit keyboard, which is a step ahead of the Mac's boring white.