Can someone help me find how plastic is made? From the source to the end product?

[Shrek]

If we could access oil and water on Mars and live in domes, I suppose it would be possible to be a two planet species.

What would you do with the oil? No oxygen in the atmosphere to burn it.

 

[Space Lynx]

What would you do with the oil? No oxygen in the atmosphere to burn it.

nuclear power plants need lots of cooling right? well outer space is super cold, maybe there could be a nuclear power plant for the energy, then that power could make factories that make the plastics from the oil and that energy could separate the oxygen from the water... from what I remember we do know there is ice on Mars, didn't they announce that a few years ago? I'd bet money there is a lot more somewhere deeper you go

 

[plastiscɧ]

should we ever (want to, should) set our feet on another planet, we will have to use and, above all, master purely renewable forms of energy by then.
i read here a lot about finite fossil fuels like oil and gases in various forms. but that will not happen. finite is and remains finite.
in the EU, research has been going on for decades on a different approach:

CORE fusion EU

 

[kapone32]

If you buy into this at all which I frankly don't.

Titan has oceans of Methane in the form of lakes. Of course there is nowhere on Earth that compares to

A metric buttton of time is the generally accepted means. The whole layer generally mineralized.


If you think native Americans aren't keenly aware of the havoc alcohol has caused their people due to a genetic tendency towards alcoholism, you are very mistaken.

As if the Europeans "trading" them did not know what they were doing.

It is actually not that difficult. There is a province in Canada called Saskatchewan that produces a product called Potash. It is a highly prized fertilizer. One interesting fact about that place is when the Millions of Buffalo ran up and down North America that place was where they rutted and would raise their young (spend 3 months dormant) How much dung trampled over millenia could there be? Most islands of the Pacific were scraped for the poop of sea birds (Guano). Nothing is outside of it. The very hardware we love to use on these forums comes from Mother Earth but nothing of value is easy to come by.

It is obvious that Coal is the forests and oil is the remains of the lifeforms that have been on this Earth before. I guess we should call our engines Dinosaur power. Of course there will be people who may want to deny it but it is true. When you are letting your car warm up so your butt won't be cold you are contributing to our malaise. We let our conceit convince us that the quest for convenience was worth it but it seems to be catching up to us. They will continue to do these things though because even though Covid closed most offices. Skip the Dishes, Mcdonalds and many other establishments that use delivery are causing a certain amount of traffic to be on the road at all times so the Game just keeps going.

The issue I have with all of this is we learned in Grade 7 about the 3 stages of water. Is it part of it that the media focuses on Ocean Levels when water vapour is much more dangerous for us Humans. I know there will be those that don't want to believe. I promise, a weather event starting in Florida and dumping 45 CM of snow across the entire Eastern Seaboard including Toronto and then the tremendous penetration of the Blast of moist air from the Arctic that has put us(North America) in the deep freeze over the last month is not a dream. Toronto is cold like Ottawa today and in so many ways that makes no sense. It was interesting watching the Rolex 24 at Daytona (last weekend) with a track temp of 2 to 5 Celsius for most of the race. So yes in the last 30 years cities in America that never worried about it now have had to add snow plows to their infrastructure. Indeed the Water vapour penetration may be contributing to the tremendous amount of volcanic activity, is Earth trying to regulate itself?

Even living in Toronto I have seen rain like I saw in Louisiana and that only caused people to be swimming out the 2nd floor Windows of the Affluent public Train service. Indeed around the world water vapour is becoming more and more noticeable. An interesting thing about the cold across North America right now is how the humidity level feels. Anyone that smokes or riding public transit knows what I mean. Whether we want to believe it or not we are the purveyors of own doom. The most unfortunate thing in all of this is the same Greed co-efficient is the root of all of our problems. Don't worry about Earth though. Chernobyl is a Garden of Eden (after Adam got booted) in Europe. The Great Barrier Reef has for some reason (in some places) begun to regenerate. The best story I have read about Mother earth lately was that 2 female California condors (The face of the Environmental movement) had chicks without any male influence.

There was an experiment they did around 20 years ago where I live. They would direct the human refuse from the sewer system and pump it into trucks that would distribute it to farms across Southern Ontario. Indeed in the grocery store you suddenly saw carrots the size of turnips and strawberries the size of plums. That is the energy that powers our combustion engines too. That has nothing to do with processes we cannot even pretend to understand about the inner workings of Earth.

nuclear power plants need lots of cooling right? well outer space is super cold, maybe there could be a nuclear power plant for the energy, then that power could make factories that make the plastics from the oil and that energy could separate the oxygen from the water... from what I remember we do know there is ice on Mars, didn't they announce that a few years ago? I'd bet money there is a lot more somewhere deeper you go

And what would you do with the waste? Send it to the Sun? The proposition of Mars as real as it seems in Media is fiction. We have to survive what Earth has in store for us first anyway.

 

[R-T-B]

Titan has oceans of Methane in the form of lakes. Of course there is nowhere on Earth that compares to

I meant the whole argument. Which seems to be that some process converts Methane to oil, and furthermore that Mars (amongst other worlds) may have some significant amount of methane. Mars at least is very questionable.

As if the Europeans "trading" them did not know what they were doing.

They did.

 

[Shrek]

Earth has vast reserves of methane that are unfortunately starting to release themselves.

 

[Space Lynx]

Earth has vast reserves of methane that are unfortunately starting to release themselves.

new article I just read yesterday

A satellite finds massive methane leaks from gas pipelines

A satellite has detected massive leaks of methane, a powerful greenhouse gas, from natural gas plants and pipelines. Most of these releases are deliberate, resulting from sloppy pipeline repairs.

www.npr.org

 

[R-T-B]

I guess we should call our engines Dinosaur power. Of course there will be people who may want to deny it but it is true

Technically no. Dinosaurs are still fossilized, not oil. What you are burning is far earlier than even the dinos.

But that doesn't change the fact that everyone knows Dinosaur Chicken Nuggets are made of real dinosaur.

 

[kapone32]

Technically no. Dinosaurs are still fossilized, not oil. What you are burning is far earlier.

Just because we are digging up some that were burned alive when the Asteroid that destroyed them means nothing for how long dinosaurs roamed the Earth. We see the same thing In Pompeii. Did no one live there before the Volcano destroyed them?

 

[Deleted member 74752]

If one is to believe that oil is mostly derived from bio you have to agree that it would most certainly be almost completely derived from plankton. That is a tall hurdle for me...please spare us the dead dinosaur theory lol. Remember these?

 

[R-T-B]

Just because we are digging up some that were burned alive when the Asteroid that destroyed them means nothing for how long dinosaurs roamed the Earth. We see the same thing In Pompeii. Did no one live there before the Volcano destroyed them?

It's pretty general knowledge Dinosaurs are not what composes our oil. Seriously. First result on googling the question:

Sorry, folks, oil does not come from dinosaurs

Petroleum is made from aquatic phytoplankton and zooplankton, and because petroleum is created by biomass, plastic also is a form of biomass.

www.plasticstoday.com

Petroleum, natural gas and coal come from biomass, primarily from plankton and decaying marine organisms, and “single-celled bacteria” that “evolved in the Earth’s oceans about three billion years ago.” Over millions of years, layers of sediment built up, along with plants (plankton and algae) and bacteria. Heat and pressure began to rise. The degree of heat and the amount of pressure, along with the type of biomass, determine if the material becomes petroleum or natural gas.

Furthermore not all we dig up were killed in the impact event. Probably not even the majority.

I sort of feel like this meme is relevant here, from a group I frequent:

 

[lexluthermiester]

I missed a page, yes.

Fair enough.

Actually, I believe that's quite easy to explain seeing how the tectonic plates are constantly going one under another.

Ok, explain Oklahoma, Texas, the Dakota's, Alaska, Canada, Central and eastern Russia and all of the other deep layer oil fields that are nowhere near subduction zones have not been for billions of years.

The Abiogenic Petroleum theory is the only postulation that meets merit. Even though the process is not fully understood, it is the only theory that fits the facts. The "Fossil Fuel" theory does NOT explain known fact, for simple reasons and the biggest being that life has not, can not and will never exist at those depths and pressures in enough concentrations and volume to create the amounts of oil we find and continue to discover.

What would you do with the oil? No oxygen in the atmosphere to burn it.

To make plastics you only need a heat source, atmospheric oxygen is not required.

It's pretty general knowledge Dinosaurs are not what composes our oil. Seriously. First result on googling the question:

Sorry, folks, oil does not come from dinosaurs

Petroleum is made from aquatic phytoplankton and zooplankton, and because petroleum is created by biomass, plastic also is a form of biomass.

www.plasticstoday.com

Another deeply flawed theory, pun intended.

 

[kapone32]

It's pretty general knowledge Dinosaurs are not what composes our oil. Seriously. First result on googling the question:

Sorry, folks, oil does not come from dinosaurs

Petroleum is made from aquatic phytoplankton and zooplankton, and because petroleum is created by biomass, plastic also is a form of biomass.

www.plasticstoday.com

Furthermore not all we dig up were killed in the impact event. Probably not even the majority.

I sort of feel like this meme is relevant here, from a group I frequent:

Indeed calling Dinosaurs alone may not be right but it still does not take away form the fact that Oil is the remains of Sentient Organic matter.

Ok, explain Oklahoma, Texas, the Dakota's, Alaska, Canada, Central and eastern Russia and all of the other deep layer oil fields that are nowhere near subduction zones have not been for billions of years.

The Abiogenic Petroleum theory is the only postulation that meets merit. Even though the process is not fully understood, it is the only theory that fits the facts. The "Fossil Fuel" theory does NOT explain known fact, for simple reasons and the biggest being that life has not, can not and will never exist at those depths and pressures in enough concentrations and volume to create the amounts of oil we find and continue to discover.

We have no idea how Green this planet has been and how much life has abounded here. Have you ever thought about what 1,000,000 Buffalo would look like? Was not where you are talking about tropical forests at one point?

 

[lexluthermiester]

So I guess Mars and Venus are awash with Oceans of oil then?

Quite possibly.

We have no idea how Green this planet has been and how much life has abounded here.

Yes we do. In fact we have a LOT of information about how much and how long life has been here.

Have you ever thought about what 1,000,000 Buffalo would look like?

Sure. How would they get 30,000+ feet underground?

Was not where you are talking about tropical forests at one point?

Nope, I never mentioned tropical forests.

 

[Deleted member 74752]

Come on people...sediments are needed if you want to explain bio and the only viable place for the magnitude we are speaking of is the ocean floors. Like I said before, that's a crap load of freakin plankton.

I have no doubt the truth about it will be revealed in the future. Sadly, none of us here will be alive to tell the others "I told ya so" lol!

 

[lexluthermiester]

and the only viable place for the magnitude we are speaking of is the ocean floors

Except the oil fields are not on the ocean floors, nor anywhere near the surface of the oceans floors. Nor would it explain the vast oil fields found in areas that have never been in contact with the oceans in any point in Earths history.

 

[Deleted member 74752]

Except the oil fields are not on the oceans floors, nor anywhere near the surface of the oceans floors. Nor would it explain the vast oil fields found in areas that have never been in contact with the oceans in any point in Earths history.

Yeah, kind of my point. They are drilling at incredible depths in oceans as we speak. Just seems to me that to explain the bio theory one has to also endorse Noah's fantastical zoo boat.

 

[R-T-B]

Sure. How would they get 30,000+ feet underground?

A long, long time.

Like I said before, that's a crap load of freakin plankton.

Which is what is believed to be the originator that composes oil (more or less, small organic life is the point, see my link above).

You both seem to be having a difficult time with the idea of geologic layering. What is now crust, is most likely fossilized matter from past topsoil. This planet is one giant life sandwhich.

Another deeply flawed theory, pun intended.

You seem to like challenging mainstream science here but with all due respect I've yet to see either of you effectively refute any of it.

 

[lexluthermiester]

A long, long time.

Never going to happen. Ever. That is NOT how plate movement works. Biomatter does not and will never "sink" to the depths we find oil fields. Full frakking stop(another pun intended).

but with all due respect I've yet to see either of you effectively refute any of it.

That is because you have failed to pay a attention or you failed to understand context. Either way, this is on you. The evidence is out there to find if you really want to understand the subject matter.

You seem to like challenging mainstream science here

I challenge anything that has no merit or flies in the face of known fact & reason. I couldn't care less about what is, or is not, mainstream. Only care about factual and reasonable information.

 

[silentbogo]

Oh, man. We went from plastic to near-flat-earth conspiracies real quick
Sorry for sarcasm and further fueling the OT... Just couldn't help myself

Ok, explain Oklahoma, Texas, the Dakota's, Alaska, Canada, Central and eastern Russia and all of the other deep layer oil fields that are nowhere near subduction zones have not been for billions of years.

Apparently they were, otherwise there wouldn't be any oil there )))

Western Interior Seaway - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Bazhenov Formation - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I challenge anything that has no merit or flies in the face of known fact & reason.

Well, at least you should've done your due-diligence back in high school. I suspect geology isn't a big part of geography course stateside, but I'm pretty sure it's at least mentioned in the curriculum

 

[lexluthermiester]

Well, at least you should've done your due-diligence back in high school.

Yeah, University as well, not to mention undergrad and grad studies... but whatever.

Apparently they were, otherwise there wouldn't be any oil there )))

Western Interior Seaway - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Bazhenov Formation - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Context is important and you've missed some...

I suspect geology isn't a big part of geography course stateside, but I'm pretty sure it's at least mentioned in the curriculum

Was that you trying to be clever? It wasn't.

Sorry

Yup, true. Don't try too hard.

 

[xrobwx71]

This has a lot of detail.

How Is Plastic Made? A Simple Step-By-Step Explanation

Synthetic plastics are derived from crude oil, natural gas or coal. Whilst biobased plastics come from renewable products such as carboydrates, fats &...

www.bpf.co.uk

 

[Deleted member 74752]

It wasnt that long ago that the flat earth theory was accepted and those that challenged it were ridiculed...knowledge and time progresses.

 

[bug]

Ok, explain Oklahoma, Texas, the Dakota's, Alaska, Canada, Central and eastern Russia and all of the other deep layer oil fields that are nowhere near subduction zones have not been for billions of years.

The Abiogenic Petroleum theory is the only postulation that meets merit. Even though the process is not fully understood, it is the only theory that fits the facts. The "Fossil Fuel" theory does NOT explain known fact, for simple reasons and the biggest being that life has not, can not and will never exist at those depths and pressures in enough concentrations and volume to create the amounts of oil we find and continue to discover.

Oh, no, it doesn't work like that.
That thing is not a theory, it's hypothesis (huge difference). As such, the burden of proof lies on its proponents, not me.

It wasnt that long ago that the flat earth theory was accepted and those that challenged it were ridiculed...knowledge and time progresses.

And that's quite interesting as well. The flat earth theory is wrong, we know that now.
But if you lived in the old world, where you wouldn't travel thousands of miles in a matter of hours or have a need to put things in orbit, the flat earth was a pretty good approximation for almost anything you needed to do.

If you have a background in engineering, you'll know many formulae we use are actually simplifications we use, because, within some boundaries, they yield results close enough to the real ones. like Newtonian mechanics that work perfectly fine when you don't move faster than the speed of sound. Flat earth of the old is just such an approximation, to me.

 

[Jacky_BEL]

Thanks giving it a watch now with my lunch

one reason I made this topic is because someone on this forum (I forget who) linked me this article below, and it got me thinking about Socrates, and asking the question 'How do we know what we think we know?' so yeah very interesting stuff here.

How Big Oil Misled The Public Into Believing Plastic Would Be Recycled

An NPR and PBS Frontline investigation reveals how the oil and gas industry used the promise of recycling to sell more plastic, even when they knew it would never work on a large scale.

www.npr.org

Chemcycling is now starting to catch on.

Chemical plants will be recycling materials that can not be mechanically recycled, by use of a thermochemical process called pyrolysis, to transform plastic waste into secondary raw material which can be further used in making new products.