Should I install Windows 10 or 11 for my new device

Lewis777 · Apr 27, 2024

Hello, 2 days ago I bought the computer with the features of ASUS X515EP I5 1135G7 MX330 8 GB RAM 512 GB NVme SSD. Now I need to install windows 10 or 11 on this device. I would be glad if you inform me I want to have a fluent windows experience. The device is now Freedos

Nhonho · Apr 27, 2024

Install Windows 10 anyway (cause it is mature, light and stable) and only install Windows 11 when Microsoft stops releasing monthly security updates for 10.

If your processor had an integrated NPU, then yes, you should have to install Windows 11, because I think only Windows 11 supports NPUs.

Lewis777 · Apr 27, 2024

Nhonho said:
Install Windows 10 anyway (cause it is mature, light and stable) and only install Windows 11 when Microsoft stops releasing monthly security updates for 10.

If your processor had an integrated NPU, then yes, you should have to install Windows 11, because I think only Windows 11 supports NPUs.

Thanks, i will play games on this Device. Maybe it will stutter windows 11 because ı have 8 gb ram.

GerKNG · Apr 27, 2024

Windows 11.
I am as much of a "hater" when it comes to microsoft and new Windows versions but Windows 11 is in almost every way far superior.

DaemonForce · Apr 27, 2024

Win11 is like another Win7 moment for me.
Too regressive to navigate properly and on age appropriate hardware I'm running to Server 2012/2016 so fast.
It's called workflow, not workstop. If you're a creator, stick to Win10 or be ready to have a better shell available than Explorer.
If you need lots of jumplists that are married to the taskbar, you don't have much choice anyway.
If your hardware is so new that drivers for it start with the cutoff AT Win11, again there's not really a choice. Good luck.

Dorek · Apr 27, 2024

Windows 10 works fine since i cant even navigate 11 since its such a mess.

faye · Apr 27, 2024

Multiple people here saying Windows 11 is harder to navigate...

How?

I've used literally every major version of Windows since 3.1, extensively, from time of release. It's Windows again. They tweaked Explorer a bit, and no, I don't like all the changes, but maybe 10 minutes changing settings and a couple pieces of light third party software and you're good to go. That's nothing new, Windows has practically required such tweaks since XP, or at very least Vista.

Now, would I put 11 (or 10) on a machine with 8GB of RAM? No, but I also wouldn't own anything I planned to use regularly with less than 16GB, so...

I guess put Linux on it and hope for the best?

dgianstefani · Apr 27, 2024

Windows 10, 10 LTSC if you can.

11 offers nothing unique that's worth using and has the same performance for games. Overall it's a more bloated OS with worse privacy, UI performance and efficiency. The job of 11 is to collect data off you, hence ads in start menu, increased tracking, "AI copilot" etc.

All the AI stuff baked into 11 that ties into local NPU etc is meaningless. If you're interested in AI, you're doing it on the GPU and using professional software. The consumer copilot etc is just more bloat designed to get you to continuously feed MS data.

DaemonForce · Apr 27, 2024

faye said:
How?

Some of us tend to use bars, pins and lists in very specific ways because it's FAST. Having to unlearn those actions because Explorer suddenly no longer cooperates with pinning an item in the taskbar or grabbing a list item from a menu or flick menus no longer appearing is atrocious and unwelcome in a creator space. Some of us may be developers but that means we still have to USE the computer. We are USERS first.

micropage7 · Apr 27, 2024

for now 11, although 11 not your fav, you gonna have better and longer support, so for long term it would be better

faye said:
Multiple people here saying Windows 11 is harder to navigate...

How?

I've used literally every major version of Windows since 3.1, extensively, from time of release. It's Windows again. They tweaked Explorer a bit, and no, I don't like all the changes, but maybe 10 minutes changing settings and a couple pieces of light third party software and you're good to go. That's nothing new, Windows has practically required such tweaks since XP, or at very least Vista.

Now, would I put 11 (or 10) on a machine with 8GB of RAM? No, but I also wouldn't own anything I planned to use regularly with less than 16GB, so...

I guess put Linux on it and hope for the best?

the annoying for me is the right click content, M$ trying to pack them into one , but leaving properties in another part, so you need 2x click

faye · Apr 27, 2024

DaemonForce said:
Some of us tend to use bars, pins and lists in very specific ways because it's FAST. Having to unlearn those actions because Explorer suddenly no longer cooperates with pinning an item in the taskbar or grabbing a list item from a menu or flick menus no longer appearing is atrocious and unwelcome in a creator space. Some of us may be developers but that means we still have to USE the computer. We are USERS first.

So run a third party shell, launcher, whatever. You're power users, it's never going to work the way you want straight out of the box. Haven't looked it to it in years, but there at very least used to be a number of options.

I get change isn't always beneficial, but if you're developing software for modern Windows, you should be using modern Windows. I suspect at least part of why we're seeing more issues with stuff on 11 is this backlash movement among devs.

I also don't like many of the changes that have come with 11 - the push towards more detailed tracking, "AI" integration I don't need or want, search bringing us to the web instead of finding local files by default, ever increasingly hardware requirements without new important features to justify or warrant them, you name it, a lot of it is just bad... But I've been personally using 11 since beta, on a wide variety of hardware, so the "issues" do seem overblown from where I stand. That said, I'm also not a dev, just an enthusiast, and 90% of what I do on the computer is basic web stuff, audio, and games.

micropage7 said:
for now 11, although 11 not your fav, you gonna have better and longer support, so for long term it would be better

the annoying for me is the right click content, M$ trying to pack them into one , but leaving properties in another part, so you need 2x click

Again, easy fix with a third party app. Same with the new start menu if you don't like it.

Shou Miko · Apr 27, 2024

dgianstefani said:
Windows 10, 10 LTSC if you can.

11 offers nothing unique that's worth using and has the same performance for games. Overall it's a more bloated OS with worse privacy, UI performance and efficiency. The job of 11 is to collect data off you, hence ads in start menu, increased tracking, "AI copilot" etc.

All the AI stuff baked into 11 that ties into local NPU etc is meaningless. If you're interested in AI, you're doing it on the GPU and using professional software. The consumer copilot etc is just more bloat designed to get you to continuously feed MS data.

LTSC iso's are available online but licenses ain't really something you most of the time can come by legit.

He could also do a custom Tiny10 or 11 that's what I did last time I reinstalled Windows 11 on my T480 laptop and running a couple of computers at work with it so far no problems just make sure to make them yourself with the orignal MS files not custom files.

micropage7 said:
for now 11, although 11 not your fav, you gonna have better and longer support, so for long term it would be better

the annoying for me is the right click content, M$ trying to pack them into one , but leaving properties in another part, so you need 2x click

Just things can be changed, even turned into Windows 7 if that's your thing.

P4-630 · Apr 27, 2024

Lewis777 said:
Now I need to install windows 10 or 11 on this device. I would be glad if you inform me I want to have a fluent windows experience.

Windows 10 will reach end of support on October 14, 2025.

Knowing that, it's best to install windows 11.

dgianstefani · Apr 27, 2024

P4-630 said:
Windows 10 will reach end of support on October 14, 2025.

Knowing that, it's best to install windows 11.

Only for consumer editions, and only if you don't use the extended support option or something like LTSC/IoT LTSC. Which have been the real "Pro" editions for a while, since the "Pro" builds are still literal adware.

By that time Windows 11 LTSC will have been released, so that may be a tolerable build.

P4-630 · Apr 27, 2024

dgianstefani said:
Only for consumer editions, and only if you don't use the extended support option or something like LTSC/IoT LTSC. Which have been the real "Pro" editions for a while.

Most windows 10 users are using the regular Home or Pro version...

dgianstefani · Apr 27, 2024

P4-630 said:
Most windows 10 users are using the regular Home or Pro version...

Yeah and most people don't go to the gym or eat healthily. Just because most people do things one way doesn't mean it's ideal. I'm not saying that it's a good thing MS has made their best version difficult to access, but it's still the reality, and this is an enthusiast site, so discussing enthusiast software is appropriate.

At least there's hope with 11 LTSC.

If not, well, the folks at github will release a bunch of tools to make the consumer editions closer to the enterprise ones in terms of debloat/group policy stuff and reg tweaks. As usual fixing the borderline joke MS puts out by default.

Eg a fresh install of Windows 10 pro is something like 25 GB. Mine is around 10 GB with no compromises on work or play. That's how bad it is these days.

Not sure how big 11 is at this point but probably bigger than 10. I used it for a few months on the laptop before replacing it in disgust after the calculator asked me to sign in every time I opened it.

Shou Miko said:
He could also do a custom Tiny10 or 11 that's what I did last time I reinstalled Windows 11 on my T480 laptop and running a couple of computers at work with it so far no problems just make sure to make them yourself with the orignal MS files not custom files.

Yeah this is also an option but a little involved. I do this anyway since even with IoT Enterprise there's still junk or obsolete useless features still bundled for legacy compatibility with ancient software.

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GitHub - stschulte/custom-windows-11-install: Create a custom unattended Win 11 Install with more privacy

NTlite is pretty decent too.

https://ameliorated.io/ uses NTLite but makes the process easier.

https://fogproject.org/ Also good, but more involved.

dgianstefani · Apr 27, 2024

P4-630 said:
It seems you know OP better than most other people here...

He's currently using freedos which implies a certain level of technical ability.

The FreeDOS Project

www.freedos.org

"Focused on tweakers, overclockers, gamers and enthusiasts."

I'm not assuming when I say "enthusiast site".

You can also get reasonably far using tools like Shutup10, which works well for 11 too (since it's basically 10 with some bloat on top).

P4-630 · Apr 27, 2024

dgianstefani said:
He's currently using freedos

From the OP I couldn't make up if he's actually using it.

Lewis777 said:
The device is now Freedos

RJARRRPCGP · Apr 27, 2024

Windows 11, IMX, seems to have better-in-consistency FPS with 3D rendering. including games. At least that's the case with Vermeer. (late AM4 chips)

I noticed that 10 is more likely to have higher "maximum-e-peen-FPS" than 11, but the FPS fluctuates more in benchmarks, including games. The minimum FPS is more likely to plunge in 10.

Thus, often higher minimum or higher average FPS in 11, for game benchmarks.

dgianstefani · Apr 27, 2024

RJARRRPCGP said:
Windows 11, IMX, seems to have better-in-consistency FPS with 3D rendering. including games. At least that's the case with Vermeer. (late AM4 chips)

I noticed that 10 is more likely to have higher "maximum-e-peen-FPS" than 11, but the FPS fluctuates more in benchmarks.

Interesting data.

The 1:1 roundup reviews sites have done on this topic 10 vs 11 show pretty similar performance if not identical.

In my own experience I have no issues with FPS consistency on my own rig which runs 10. I run NVCP driver frame limited to 3 below my max refresh rate for input latency, so 237, which might help with that.

Win 11 also has a few settings enabled by default over 10, but these can be switched on/off on both OS.

AFAIK most of the significant performance affecting settings are related to security, virtualization, or hardware accelerated GPU scheduling.

RJARRRPCGP · Apr 27, 2024

dgianstefani said:
Interesting data.

The 1:1 roundup reviews sites have done on this topic 10 vs 11 show pretty similar performance if not identical.

I don't know if that's enough to have games noticeably bad with 10, even in e-sports multiplayer.
But, 11 sure felt like it has excellent frame pacing on my rigs. The old Direct X 9-based Halo Custom Edition runs very well! (1.0.10, the 2014 patch)

Dorek · Apr 27, 2024

faye said:
The fact that I can't ignore your posts is the reason I'm leaving these forums, so good job, I guess.

Tried using some shell but windows update bricked the windows, and i like my context menu to have copy and paste not just some phone icons.
11 just isnt good.

Sum_Ting_Wong · Apr 27, 2024

This thread hurt to read.

In 11 the old context menu is a reg edit away. Games run better thanks to properly implemented FSO and GPU scheduling. Just about everything else is the same but improved. You can still cut off home phoning. And the LTSC just dropped, 26100.2 is certified for OEMs and is already getting regular updates. Even my unsupported Skylake runs better on 11 ProW than 10 LTSC. The amount of misinformation, assumption and rage has turned me off of trying to use these forums meaningfully and this account will go dormant until necessary. Thanks.

dgianstefani · Apr 27, 2024

RJARRRPCGP said:
I don't know if that's enough to have games noticeably bad with 10, even in e-sports multiplayer.
But, 11 sure felt like it has excellent frame pacing on my rigs. The old Direct X 9-based Halo Custom Edition runs very well! (1.0.10, the 2014 patch)

Yeah, if there is a difference in gaming performance it isn't noticable IMO.

The issue I have with 11 isn't gaming performance, but rather general performance, and efficiency of the UI, as others have mentioned (reinventing the wheel). It's a lot heavier on system resources and accesses the internet a lot more. Then there's the privacy/security issues of bigger OS with more features/bloat etc.

Not moving from 10 till I have to.

Bill_Bright · Apr 27, 2024

It makes no sense to put W10 on a new computer. W10 is going away. Nothing can stop that. W11 is here to stay. It makes no sense to go through the hassle of installing, learning, and getting used to W10, then soon down the road, have to do it all over again with W11.

I have heard the same old arguments about how the new Windows version sucks with EVERY SINGLE NEW VERSION since Windows 1.0 came out to replace DOS. Same with every new version of this browser, that browser, this word processor, that word processor, this security program, that security program. It never changes. People like what they are used to, and hate what they are not familiar with.

But then something magical happens. They get used to the new version and suddenly, the old version looks and feels awkward.

Do not forget that Windows is just the operating system. We use the OS to launch our favorite programs. We do not sit around, hours at a time, staring at the OS. We launch our game, our browser, our word processor and that is what we then see.

System Name	Sunk Cost Fallacy
Processor	AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D
Motherboard	ASRock B650E Steel Legend Wifi
Cooling	Arctic Liquid Freezer II 360 Rev. 7
Memory	2x16GB G.Skill Trident Z5 NEO 6000 CL30
Video Card(s)	Sapphire Nitro+ RX 7900 XTX Vapor-X
Storage	WD Black SN850X 1TB + 2x 2TB, 2x 4TB Crucial MX500, 4TB Samsung 870 Evo.
Display(s)	Alienware AW2723DF, LG 27GR93U, LG 27GN950-B
Case	Lian Li O11 Air Mini
Audio Device(s)	Bose Companion Series 2 III, Sennheiser GSP600 and HD599 SE - Creative Soundblaster X4
Power Supply	bequiet! Dark Power Pro 12 1500w Titanium
Mouse	Logitech GPRO X Superlight & G502 X
Keyboard	Corsair K65 RGB Mini, Razer Black Widow V3 TKL
VR HMD	Oculus Rift S

System Name	DevKit
Processor	AMD Ryzen 5 3600 ↗4.0GHz
Motherboard	Asus TUF Gaming X570-Plus WiFi
Cooling	Koolance CPU-300-H06, Koolance GPU-180-L06, SC800 Pump
Memory	4x16GB Ballistix 3200MT/s ↗3600
Video Card(s)	PowerColor RX 580 Red Devil 8GB ↗1380MHz ↘1105mV, PowerColor RX 7900 XT Hellhound 20GB
Storage	240GB Corsair MP510, 120GB KingDian S280
Display(s)	Nixeus VUE-24 (1080p144)
Case	Koolance PC2-601BLW + Koolance EHX1020CUV Radiator Kit
Audio Device(s)	Oculus CV-1
Power Supply	Antec Earthwatts EA-750 Semi-Modular
Mouse	Easterntimes Tech X-08, Zelotes C-12
Keyboard	Logitech 106-key, Romoral 15-Key Macro, Royal Kludge RK84
VR HMD	Oculus CV-1
Software	Windows 10 Pro Workstation, VMware Workstation 16 Pro, MS SQL Server 2016, Fan Control v120, Blender
Benchmark Scores	Cinebench R15: 1590cb Cinebench R20: 3530cb (7.83x451cb) CPU-Z 17.01.64: 481.2/3896.8 VRMark: 8009

System Name	desktop
Processor	i5 11600k
Motherboard	Asus TUF Gaming Z590-Plus WiFi
Cooling	Noctua NH-D15
Memory	Corsair 32GB (2 x 16GB) Vengeance LPX, DDR4 3600MHz, CL18
Video Card(s)	Asus GeForce RTX 4080 TUF Gaming - OC Edition
Storage	2TB WD_BLACK SN850X NVMe
Display(s)	Acer Predator 1440p

System Name	Desktop/HTPC
Processor	Ryzen 7 5800X3D
Motherboard	Gigabyte X570 I Aorus Pro WiFi ITX
Cooling	ID Cooling DashFlow 240mm AIO
Memory	64GB (2x32) G.Skill Trident Z RGB DDR4-3600 CL18
Video Card(s)	Sapphire Pulse Radeon RX 7900 XTX 24GB
Storage	4TB WD SN850X NVMe, 2TB WD SN850X NVMe
Display(s)	LG OLED65B9PUA 65" 4K OLED TV
Case	Lian Li x Dan A4-H20
Audio Device(s)	USB to MiniDSP DDRC24 DAC, RCA to SUMO Andromeda amp, wired to Wharfedale SP88 speakers
Power Supply	Silverstone SX1000R SFX-L Platinum ATX 3.0
Mouse	Corsair M65 RGB Elite
Keyboard	Corsair K65 RGB Mini
VR HMD	Oculus Rift / PSVR / PSVR2 / Lenovo Explorer
Software	Windows 11 Pro

System Name	Silent
Processor	Ryzen 7800X3D @ 5.15ghz BCLK OC, TG AM5 High Performance Heatspreader
Motherboard	ASUS ROG Strix X670E-I, chipset fans removed
Cooling	Optimus AMD Raw Copper/Plexi, HWLABS Copper 240/40+240/30, D5, 4x Noctua A12x25, Mayhems Ultra Pure
Memory	32 GB Dominator Platinum 6150 MHz 26-36-36-48, 56.6ns AIDA, 2050 FLCK, 160 ns TRFC
Video Card(s)	RTX 3080 Ti Founders Edition, Conductonaut Extreme, 18 W/mK MinusPad Extreme, Corsair XG7 Waterblock
Storage	Intel Optane DC P1600X 118 GB, Samsung 990 Pro 2 TB
Display(s)	32" 240 Hz 1440p Samsung G7, 31.5" 165 Hz 1440p LG NanoIPS Ultragear
Case	Sliger SM570 CNC Aluminium 13-Litre, 3D printed feet, custom front panel with pump/res combo
Audio Device(s)	Audeze Maxwell Ultraviolet, Razer Nommo Pro
Power Supply	SF750 Plat, transparent full custom cables, Sentinel Pro 1500 Online Double Conversion UPS w/Noctua
Mouse	Razer Viper Pro V2 Mercury White w/Tiger Ice Skates & Pulsar Supergrip tape
Keyboard	Wooting 60HE+ module, TOFU Redux Burgundy w/brass weight, Prismcaps White & Jellykey, lubed/modded
Software	Windows 10 IoT Enterprise LTSC 19053.3803
Benchmark Scores	Legendary

Should I install Windows 10 or 11 for my new device

Lewis777

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dgianstefani

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Bill_Bright

System Name	Lynni PS \ Lenowo TwinkPad L14 G2
Processor	AMD Ryzen 7 7700 Raphael \ i5-1135G7 Tiger Lake-U
Motherboard	ASRock B650M PG Riptide Bios v. 2.02 AMD AGESA 1.1.0.0 \ Lenowo BDPLANAR Bios 1.68
Cooling	Noctua NH-D15 Chromax.Black (Only middle fan) \ Lenowo C-267C-2
Memory	G.Skill Flare X5 2x16GB DDR5 6000MHZ CL36-36-36-96 AMD EXPO \ Willk Elektronik 2x16GB 2666MHZ CL17
Video Card(s)	Asus GeForce RTX™ 4070 Dual OC GPU: 2325-2355 MEM: 1462\| Intel® Iris® Xe Graphics
Storage	Gigabyte M30 1TB\|Sabrent Rocket 2TB\| HDD: 10TB\|1TB \ WD RED SN700 1TB
Display(s)	LG UltraGear 27GP850-B 1440p@165Hz \| LG 48CX OLED 4K HDR \| Innolux 14" 1080p
Case	Asus Prime AP201 White Mesh \| Lenowo L14 G2 chassis
Audio Device(s)	Steelseries Arctis Pro Wireless
Power Supply	Be Quiet! Pure Power 12 M 750W Goldie \| 65W
Mouse	Logitech G305 Lightspeedy Wireless \| Lenowo TouchPad & Logitech G305
Keyboard	Akko 3108 DS Horizon V2 Cream Yellow \| L14 G2 UK Lumi
Software	Win11 Pro 23H2 UK
Benchmark Scores	3DMARK: https://www.3dmark.com/3dm/89434432? GPU-Z: https://www.techpowerup.com/gpuz/details/v3zbr

System Name	AlderLake / Laptop
Processor	Intel i7 12700K P-Cores @ 5Ghz / Intel i3 7100U
Motherboard	Gigabyte Z690 Aorus Master / HP 83A3 (U3E1)
Cooling	Noctua NH-U12A 2 fans + Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut Extreme + 5 case fans / Fan
Memory	32GB DDR5 Corsair Dominator Platinum RGB 6000MT/s CL36 / 8GB DDR4 HyperX CL13
Video Card(s)	MSI RTX 2070 Super Gaming X Trio / Intel HD620
Storage	Samsung 980 Pro 1TB + 970 Evo 500GB + 850 Pro 512GB + 860 Evo 1TB x2 / Samsung 256GB M.2 SSD
Display(s)	23.8" Dell S2417DG 165Hz G-Sync 1440p / 14" 1080p IPS Glossy
Case	Be quiet! Silent Base 600 - Window / HP Pavilion
Audio Device(s)	Panasonic SA-PMX94 / Realtek onboard + B&O speaker system / Harman Kardon Go + Play / Logitech G533
Power Supply	Seasonic Focus Plus Gold 750W / Powerbrick
Mouse	Logitech MX Anywhere 2 Laser wireless / Logitech M330 wireless
Keyboard	RAPOO E9270P Black 5GHz wireless / HP backlit
Software	Windows 11 / Windows 10
Benchmark Scores	Cinebench R23 (Single Core) 1936 @ stock Cinebench R23 (Multi Core) 23006 @ stock

System Name	KHR-1
Processor	Ryzen 9 5900X
Motherboard	ASRock B550 PG Velocita (UEFI-BIOS P3.40)
Memory	32 GB G.Skill RipJawsV F4-3200C16D-32GVR
Video Card(s)	Sapphire Nitro+ Radeon RX 6750 XT
Storage	Western Digital Black SN850 1 TB NVMe SSD
Display(s)	Alienware AW3423DWF OLED-ASRock PG27Q15R2A (backup)
Case	Corsair 275R
Audio Device(s)	Technics SA-EX140 receiver with Polk VT60 speakers
Power Supply	eVGA Supernova G3 750W
Mouse	Logitech G Pro (Hero)
Software	Windows 11 Pro x64 23H2

System Name	Brightworks Systems BWS-6 E-IV
Processor	Intel Core i5-6600 @ 3.9GHz
Motherboard	Gigabyte GA-Z170-HD3 Rev 1.0
Cooling	Quality case, 2 x Fractal Design 140mm fans, stock CPU HSF
Memory	32GB (4 x 8GB) DDR4 3000 Corsair Vengeance
Video Card(s)	EVGA GEForce GTX 1050Ti 4Gb GDDR5
Storage	Samsung 850 Pro 256GB SSD, Samsung 860 Evo 500GB SSD
Display(s)	Samsung S24E650BW LED x 2
Case	Fractal Design Define R4
Power Supply	EVGA Supernova 550W G2 Gold
Mouse	Logitech M190
Keyboard	Microsoft Wireless Comfort 5050
Software	W10 Pro 64-bit

Should I install Windows 10 or 11 for my new device

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GitHub - stschulte/custom-windows-11-install: Create a custom unattended Win 11 Install with more privacy​

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