Throttlestop Energy Performance Preference EPP questions

[Faide]

Hi,

Newly registered here but have read a ton of stuff over the last couple weeks. What i haven't been able to completely understand is the changed EPP does.

I've read the obvious numbers like 0 max performance, 84 (windows balanced), 255 base clock.

I have a HP Omen 15 laptop,
I7-8750H
16gb
GTX 1060

I play an MMO called GW2 which is extremely poorly optimized. It tends to max out 1 core while other cores are lightly loaded.
Prior to using throttlestop i had windows set on max performance (basically EPP 0) so my laptop was running at 3.9 ghz all the time.
Needless to say it got very hot easily over 90C (mid 90s most of the time) and i am pretty sure i was getting thermal throttling.
The default TPL numbers were Long 45W, Short 78W

In order to control temps whilst trying to keep FPS as high as possible (I cap my FPS to 60 since my laptop screen can't show higher than that anyway)

I have applied -0.125 undervolt on cache and core.
Turbo Ratio Limits capped at 3.7 Ghz all cores
Turbo Long 35W ( i never get PL1 alarms while playing)
Turbo Short 45W (i do get some PL2 alarms but that's not a big problem)
Turbo Time default 28 sec
EPP 94

I also created an "Alarm" condition with
DTS 8 (92C)
where it will switch to a profile with
Turbo Ratio Limits capped at 3.5 Ghz and an EPP of 84 ( i don't want the cpu speed to drop below 3.5)

The alarm condition switches on when i get a momentary temp spike above 92. The overall temps stay below 90.

This has helped a lot with temps. With my avg temp now in the mid to high 80s, and my CPU clocks pretty much hang around the 3.5-3.7 level.

I monitor CPU speed and temps in game with MSI Afterburner Riva Tuner.

Now here is my question.

Since my game keeps one core at 100% almost constantly
If i set my EPP to 84 it pretty much keeps CPU speed at 3.7 all the time.
When i set to 94 it occasionally drops to 3.4 .
When i set to 96 it can drop to 3.2

From what i've read the higher the number the more likely the CPU will throttle even under load. So high EPP numbers can negatively impact gaming. I don't want my CPU to throttle under load right when i need it.

Is there any documentation that shows the potential range that CPU clock speeds can go for different EPP settings?

Thanks very much and thanks for all the info ive gleaned from this forum already.

 

[unclewebb]

Newly registered here but have read a ton of stuff

Thank you for that.

I monitor CPU speed and temps in game with MSI Afterburner Riva Tuner.

When Speed Shift Technology is enabled and a 6 core CPU is lightly loaded, the CPU speed data shown on screen while gaming might not be 100% accurate. I think the slight changes you are making to EPP are exaggerating the change in MHz that Afterburner is reporting. Try turning on the ThrottleStop Log File option instead. Play a game for at least 15 minutes. When finished testing, exit the game and then exit ThrottleStop. Your log file will be in your ThrottleStop / Logs folder. Attach a log to your next post with EPP set to 84 so I can have a look. It will be interesting to see what speed your CPU is really running at.

Double check the monitoring table in the FIVR window to see what EPP value your CPU is using. I prefer not checking the EPP option in ThrottleStop. This allows Windows 10 to control EPP. Many laptops will set EPP to 84 when the power plan slider in the system tray is set to Best Performance. Move the slider back and forth when EPP is not checked in ThrottleStop to see what values your computer uses. An EPP setting of 84 is appropriate for most situations.

I would suggest not using the Alarm feature to control your CPU speed. Using software to manage the CPU speed is way too slow. Much better to let the CPU control itself at the hardware level. Intel CPUs do a great job of managing themselves. Let it thermal throttle if it has to. The HP Omen usually sets the thermal throttling temperature under the Intel recommended 100°C value so there is no need to worry about your CPU temperature. Post some screenshots of ThrottleStop so I can see how you have the program setup.

Your undervolt settings need to be tweaked. Download Cinebench R20 or R23.

Evaluate your computer's hardware capabilities | Cinebench from Maxon

Cinebench is a free cross-platform test suite that evaluates your computer's hardware capabilities. Get a more accurate measurement of Cinema 4D's ability…

www.maxon.net

For a baseline, start testing with the core and cache both set to -125 mV. The core and cache do not have to be set equally. Start increasing only the core in steps of -25 mV. Keep going until you hit -225 mV on the core. Most 8750H can run reliably and cooler when the core is set to a much bigger number compared to the cache. Improvements in temperatures or performance during Cinebench testing will also help out when gaming. If you run into any stability problems, reduce the cache offset first 5 mV or 10 mV and test again.

Is there any documentation...

Intel does not do a great job of publicly documenting anything important. Doing your own hands on trial and error testing is the best way to learn.

 

[Faide]

Thanks @unclewebb

When EPP Speedshift is unchecked
In balanced power mode FIVR window shows 84
The slider only lets me use 3 positions. Full left, middle and full right

Middle Setting EPP is 84
Full right is EPP 0
Full left (best battery) is EPP is 84 (same as when in middle)

I will run some test logs with EPP at 84.

Thanks again for the reply

Here is my current setup

 

[unclewebb]

Full left (best battery) is EPP is 84 (same as when in middle)

That is what I found. Some of the Windows 10 energy saving settings are in name only. If EPP is the same then CPU performance is exactly the same. When you unplug your laptop and switch to battery power, the EPP value that Windows 10 uses might change.

Edit - You do not need to use the Speed Shift Max value. Set it to 41. Your turbo ratios are unlocked and you are using those to control your CPU speed. Do some Cinebench core voltage testing and adjustments first.

 

[Faide]

I don't mind using higher EPP values but my worry is the CPU will throttle itself even under load right when i need it.

What i would really like is to have it so the CPU clock speeds will always stay between 3.4 - 3.7 ghz while gaming. EPP 84 (balanced mode) "shows" cpu speed always at my max. Higher EPP numbers will show CPU dropping as low as 3.1 thats why i was interested if there was any scientific ranges applied at diff EPP levels.

I noticed in TPL screen where it says speedshift i can modify the Min value. Is there any harm to setting that min value to 34 when gaming?

 

[unclewebb]

I noticed in TPL screen where it says speedshift i can modify the Min value. Is there any harm to setting that min value to 34 when gaming?

No harm at all in trying that solution. That is a great idea to accomplish what you are trying to accomplish.

Higher EPP numbers will show CPU dropping as low as 3.1

Are you still going by the MHz that are reported on screen while in game or does data from the ThrottleStop log file show this?

 

[Faide]

Are you still going by the MHz that are reported on screen while in game or does data from the ThrottleStop log file show this?

I haven't been able to get on game just yet since im working. Will try later tonight. (forum posting is acceptable, gaming is not )

HI i ran a log file for 15 min.

However i forgot to set EPP to 84. It was set to 94.
I ran around a busy area of the game with a fair amount of people.

Also note i still had a lot of background processes running since i hadn't closed some of my work stuff. I had disabled the alarm profile so it was just the profile i listed above. 3.7ghz max with EPP 94.

@unclewebb

Hi
So analyzing the data file i found these results

I spent 87.1% of the time above 3.5 Ghz (35 multiplier)
I spent 83% of the time at 92C or below
I spent 9.7% of the time at 95C or higher
Average power consumption 32.03W

I then ran the same test in same game doing the same stuff but this time i enabled my alarm condition. (alarm profile is turbo ratios capped at 35 with EPP 84. Kicks in at DTS 8.)

I am attaching the file (version a)
What's interesting is that it seems that Throttlestop does a good job at managing temps.

So analyzing the second data file i found these results

I spent 92.9% of the time above 3.5 Ghz (35 multiplier) vs 87.1% in first file
I spent 90.8% of the time at 92C or below vs 83% in first file
I spent 3.2% of the time at 95C or higher vs 9.7% in first file
Average power consumption 30.96W

So i was able to keep my CPU clock speeds in a higher range while keeping my temps in a lower range using Alarm enabled.

Both files were capped to same time length (just over 15 min)
Both tests had same processes running in the background and with me doing the same kind of actions/tasks.