upgrading gpu in my 6700K-based (aging) PC for 4k 60fps gaming

[Toothless]

My post was more towards people who keep pushing raytracing and not actually reading your posts. I guess certain hardware or statuses or whatever drop literacy rate.

I'll just put my two cents in:

I have a 7900XTX. I run 3440x1440 144hz. It's only RDR2 and 2077 that I can't max out to my 144hz panel and that's with FSR on. Now this is with ultra settings but also less pixels than 4k. I can check TW3 but I'm going with you're not maxing these games at 4k60 with a 6750XT. Couldn't do it with a 6800XT, 6950XT, nor the mentioned XTX.

There are going to be sacrifices with your budget, and it might be lower settings or running at 1440p to keep the smoothness. Who knows but only you after you get the upgrade. AMD has the better pricing/performance (again, ignoring raytracing) and my vote will be a 6800XT or if you really need, 6950XT (6900XT with less power spikes) for your usage. It's not wrong to go with a generation old.

Just being realistic. I'm more than happy to test other games to see what struggles but I don't have 4k. 1080p or 3440x1440 but I can test either one with a few cards.

 

[dgianstefani]

Friendly reminder that not everyone uses raytracing. Pushing that feature on people so they can buy green at a worse price/performance deal really shows your fanboyism when it's an option.

Except it literally isn't an option in new games like avatar, there isn't a way to turn it off. This will become more common.

So you can call people fanboys or the proofreader illiterate all you want, but I'm just being realistic. OP has stated there's one game he currently wants to play with RT, there will be more in future, and there will also be many more games like Avatar, where your preference won't matter as devs use RT by default (something I've been predicting for a while now, seeing as both consoles have RT hardware to target 30FPS "quality").

Do you really think the industry is moving in some other direction?

Regardless, games like Baldur's Gate III support DLAA, which really is the only way to anti-alias without some downside.

You can call it bias, observation of reality, whatever floats your boat.

 

[Toothless]

Except it literally isn't an option in new games like avatar, there isn't a way to turn it off. This will become more common.

So you can call people fanboys or the proofreader illiterate all you want, but I'm just being realistic. OP has stated there's one game he currently wants to play with RT, there will be more in future, and there will also be many more games like Avatar, where your preference won't matter as devs use RT by default (something I've been predicting for a while now, seeing as both consoles have RT hardware to target 30FPS "quality").

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Do you really think the industry is moving in some other direction?

Regardless, games like Baldur's Gate III support DLAA, which really is the only way to anti-alias without some downside.

You can call it bias, observation of reality, whatever floats your boat.

Jesus dude.


The software fallback is probably what will allow AMD to keep up in those games as long as they keep pushing RT performance, which they have a bit. Either devs will wise up and push it back to an optional setting or AMD/NVIDIA will have better performance down the road. Either way OP said Portal RTX is a game they would LIKE to try but it's not within the requirements for their upgrade.

Just because one game forces raytracing down people's throats doesn't mean all of them are going to and being realistic as you said, by the time all those games (if they do) keep raytracing levels in different visual settings OP will be upgrading again.

Point is maybe to OP saying they aren't looking for raytracing, even if the "newest flashiest" game forcing it on, should be a thing that's prioritized in this thread.

 

[dgianstefani]

The software fallback only works for cards that don't have RT hardware, RDNA3 does, it's just bad.

 

[Toothless]

It's an improvement. It's good AMD is trying for consumers. That's good for you, me, everyone here. However it's at this time not in OP's schedule book.

 

[Assimilator]

Just because one game forces raytracing down people's throats doesn't mean all of them are going to

Um, yes they are. Like @dgianstefani said, this is the direction that the industry is moving in, because developers have no desire to write and maintain two code paths when only one is required.

It's an improvement. It's good AMD is trying for consumers. That's good for you, me, everyone here. However it's at this time not in OP's schedule book.

Except it is, because OP has already demonstrated that they keep their hardware for a long time, so only-ray-traced games are almost certainly going to be a concern for them. Therefore, from a purely longevity standpoint, it makes sense for them to go with a GPU that has superior RT performance - and right now, for better or worse, that's an NVIDIA GPU.

 

[Denver]

Friendly reminder that not everyone uses raytracing. Pushing that feature on people so they can buy green at a worse price/performance deal really shows your fanboyism when it's an option.

It's embarrassing to see people counting $1000 GPUs running 44fps instead of 40 as an advantage. Damn, People buying low-end and mid-end GPUs shouldn't even think about RT tbh

 

[Dragaan]

Sadly, I'm still not sure people are actualy reading my posts. I realize I type a hell of a lot (and I'm repeating myself a lot :x ) But this was a big decision for me. And I apologize for this thread continuing on this long; I didn't mean for it to.

But, please, if you are going to give advice to me you must understand what I'm saying. AAA titles don't interest me. If the ONLY thing this upgrade does (for now, until I get a temp mobo/cpu upgrade off ebay to hold me over til the "real" build) is get me from 1440p/60/high in Spellforce: Conquest of Eo, Old World (yea, I know...maybe cpu bound? even though it's old..), Pathfinder: WOtR, RDR2, TW:WH2 (2, not 3), and God of War to 4k/60/high-ultra (even with quality upscaling) I will be happy. Those are the "MONSTER AAA blockbuster" games (minus the first 3) I care about rn. If it can get me from 4k/high/60/balanced to 4k/ultra/60/nativeORquality in Witcher3 Next-gen and Clash: Artifacts of Chaos I will be happy. If I can play Octopath Traveller 2 and Divinity:OS2 in 4k/60/ultra, which I am doing now just with hiccups in certain spots rarely, I will be happy. If I can go from 1440p/med-high to 1440p/ultra in TW:WH3 and keep the same ~50-60fps I will be happy. And if I can go from 4k/60 with FSR1 on balanced (1 is all they had when I played) to 4k/60/nativeORbalancedORquaity w/ FSR2/3 in Baldur's Gate3 I will be happy. These are the main games I can think of off the top of my head that I care about atm. Even ignoring EVERY future title for now and pretending Ray Tracing doesn't exist on planet earth, if I can get these 'boosts' then it's worth it for me. I'll be ecstatic.

I'm lookin to boost my older games, not play next-gen ones. I'll dip my toes in those waters once I build a REAL next-gen PC.

The VAAAAST majority of my immense game collection is made up of indie games that do not and will not have support for ray tracing and most will never have support for any upscaling. It's all raw native/rasterization power requirements. Some of them are a bit intense for A or AA games (tainted grail, gloomhaven), and some may not be the most well-optimized, so some of them I still could use a decent boost in. I'll spare you even attempting to list games from this category, though.

Everything else is icing. I'm more concerned with whether THOSE upgrdades are too ambitious for my 6700K, although I'm guessing most of them are definitely NOT. The 2 main points of my thread were to ask people's opinion on the 7800 XT vs 6950 XT vs (used) 3080 12GB (or 10....), and whether vram BANDWIDTH vs vram SPEED vs clock speed would make any difference when pairing a newer card with an older processer in terms of frametimes, stutters, pop-in, etc. (or even crashing). Seems like that last question was just not even valid from the replies I got on it so far, though.


EDIT: BTW, DLAA definitely interests me (frfom what I know about it right now - i'm going to research it, AND the AMD ver that I think I read is coming out with FSR3, shortly). This is one of the main reasons I'm still even considering Nvidia (besides familiarity, stability, etc.). Even ignoring ray tracing I do get what you're saying about their tech. I like Nvidia. I just don't like how the 4070 is positioned and there is absolutely NO other card int he current lineup I would look at. 4070 Super I would love to know more about ASAP. And, if I DO end up returning the 7800XT's (or one of them), I'm STILL wondering about the 3080 12GB @ $500...

I am also curious if, say due to cpu bottlenecking, I cannot obtain a full solid 60fps in any of the bigger titles STILL, but instead I'm sitting around ~50..... would frame generation help me there? I understand it adds latency and possibly adds artifacting/ghosting at lower framerates than 60 (which is what they recommend as a "starting point"), but I mean... it's 50, not 30. Does frame generation ONLY double fps, even if vsync is on at 60hz? And has ANYONE ever even tried it in a game at exactly 30fps, trying to hit 60fps (in some really demanding game)? Is it THAT bad?

 

[Panther_Seraphin]

Everything else is icing. I'm more concerned with whether THOSE upgrdades are too ambitious for my 6700K, although I'm guessing most of them are definitely NOT. The 2 main points of my thread were to ask people's opinion on the 7800 XT vs 6950 XT vs (used) 3080 12GB (or 10....), and whether vram BANDWIDTH vs vram SPEED vs clock speed would make any difference when pairing a newer card with an older processer in terms of frametimes, stutters, pop-in, etc. (or even crashing). Seems like that last question was just not even valid from the replies I got on it so far, though.

6700k is obviously not ideal for AAA gaming now, however as you have mentioned that all you are playing is "last gen" games in most cases. I would disusade you from even considering the 10Gb model 3080 purely for the fact that even current triple AAA games are going extremely high with VRAM and you want to be playing at 4K res primarily.

The 12Gb 3080 has the raster performance but will it be good enough in 12-24 months due to the lower VRAM? I think it will become a serious bottleneck for certain games especially at your ideal 4K requirement.

7800xt would be a serious recomendation as its has all the latest tech from AMD. 6950XT is equivalent or even a little better just remember your also going to see a higher power draw as well.

I am also curious if, say due to cpu bottlenecking, I cannot obtain a full solid 60fps in any of the bigger titles STILL, but instead I'm sitting around ~50..... would frame generation help me there? I understand it adds latency and possibly adds artifacting/ghosting at lower framerates than 60 (which is what they recommend as a "starting point"), but I mean... it's 50, not 30. Does frame generation ONLY double fps, even if vsync is on at 60hz? And has ANYONE ever even tried it in a game at exactly 30fps, trying to hit 60fps (in some really demanding game)? Is it THAT bad?

Frame Generation at lower FPS is a bit of a mixed bag, it may seem smooth but it can feel a bit off as even though a new frame is being generated, the CPU calculations behind that frame isnt there so any input you have done isnt represented till the next true frame which can be off putting for some people. So for low intensity games its not terrible as your not basing decisions/input in fractions of seconds but for more intense games it can be a real deal breaker.

What I would highly recommend is look at the usage of your current system. When you have these stutters are you seeing GPU drops which indicates an extreme CPU bottleneck or is there obvious contention on the GPU with 100% and a drop in CPU usage at the same time. That would push you into working out where your bottlenecks are.

 

[Dragaan]

Um, yes they are. Like @dgianstefani said, this is the direction that the industry is moving in, because developers have no desire to write and maintain two code paths when only one is required.


Except it is, because OP has already demonstrated that they keep their hardware for a long time, so only-ray-traced games are almost certainly going to be a concern for them. Therefore, from a purely longevity standpoint, it makes sense for them to go with a GPU that has superior RT performance - and right now, for better or worse, that's an NVIDIA GPU.

Not entirely true. Current system was SUPPOSED to only be 2-3yrs, tops. It just performed so perfectly in everything I use it for and play that I had zero need to upgrade; that's even with me being the type of person who would upgrade for upgrade's sake (benchmarks, etc.) - as long as finances allow for it. This time around, as I stated, I will be "bridging" this build with a used mobo/cpu most likely just for a year or two and then do another full-on build. Which I will probably keep for less than 5 years.

But all that aside, ray tracing doesn't float my boat. I like stylized games mostly. Yes, RT looks pretty here, but I don't think it's a flat upgrade in all cases. I don't think my mind will change much over the next few years aside from a few games. Unless one of those games happens to be RT-only AND a "system builder" game (where just playing that game is worth building the entire system, maybe witcher4 or half-life 3..). If I'm FORCED into using RT in my A and AA indie games.... well then you got me. Then RT/PT/RTT/NvidiaTracing/etc will have to be a bigger consideration.


Aaaanyway. I just came here to leave a quick update. I installed the 7800 XT. Last night I ran a final benchmark, TimeSpy Extreme (D12/4k), on my 1080 Ti. Forgot the scores (it didn't save them...) but it was somewhere close to 5k. I got an achievement! "Great score!" or soemthing. ANd for users with my same hardware I did pretty well, I think in like the top 30 or 35%. Wish I saved the SS. I also was told my "estimated" FPS at 1440p/Ultra in RDR2 would be 35+ (seemed about right for native/max settings - i always figured maybe 45ish tops with those settings). GTAV it said 60+ or 65+.


Just installed the 7800 XT (and the FULL....ick.... AMD driver package - this will change later, lol). No OC or undervolt or any tweaks enabled. Afteburner hasn't been run again yet, so fan curve is whatever stock for this card or the AMD software would be. Anyway, here are the results for the same test. Needless to say, I feel a bit silly for doubting the situation. I figured 5-10fps at native in the few, older AAA games I play (at 4k) would be amazing for now, until I get a better cpu. This is...quite a bit more. I'm about to jump into some of the games I was starting to think I'd no way be able to play with this setup. *Fingers crossed*

Also, thank you again to everone who spent time replying to my thread. Any and all info/help/replies are appreciated. I realize waiting for a 4070 Super probably would have been a really great idea (especially if my cpu ISN'T bottlenecking me so much after all in the games I'm playing atm), but I didn't want to keep waiting forever as new cards came out, and I would want to wait at least a week or so after release to see if there are any... hiccups, etc. But pricing is also a concern, and I thought I would most definitely need to use my spare cash on that temp cpu/mobo upgrdade. I still probably will do that. And I'll just use this 7800 until the 5000 series or rdna4 comes out (or later). But the 4070 Super recommendation is definitely a good one and one I'd definitely recommend to anyone else as long as they know they'll be paying at least $100 extra for it. If it ends up being 649, those things might not sell for cheaper than 729 for a decent tri-fan brand name model, right? I mean, considering current 4070 pricing...

 

[Dragaan]

Final post. In case anyone is on the fence and in a similar situation to myself.

All games I listed I have doubled my fps in (almost literally). Even with vsync off and in games I thought for sure I'd be hindered by my cpu, my fps went through the roof. This is at 4k on high/ultra in games like Witcher3 and God of War, Total War: Warhammer 1-3, etc. Absolutely FLOORED with the result. It's like a new PC. Much bigger upgrade than the 980 ti (to the 1080) to the 1080 ti when I did that years back. In Witcher3 at 4k ultra with FSR on ultra quality and vsync off it shot as high as 170fps and averaged around 105. I got to crank everything up from high to "Ultra+", and for the first time my vram usage went above ~6gb, up to 12! lol. Never seen vram usage that high in my games. Total war warhammer 2 at 1440p ultra, I turned reflections back on and cranked up the AA setting. Benchmark results almost perfectly doubled. As high as 160 as well, with avg around 100. Old World I'm now at ultra 4k with EASE (card at like 30degrees).

I also AM able to play Age of Wonders 4!! Not only at 1440p, but at 4k. MAX. Although it dipped to 55 once or twice when doing certain tasks, so I turned the AA down from 8 to 4 and went to 90% resolution instead of actual 4k (feel better about that). But, yea, overall result has been nothing less than stunning. I am now actually starting to regret not going for a 6950 XT, as I am positive I would have had even better results in most games. My CPU just doesn't seem bothered by anything I play. Also, in that 3DMark test I did right after installing the card (attached in above post), that was in a funky setting where the fan never went above 28% and it didn't use full power. When using a moderate fan curve the thing is a beast. I've seen it clock as high as 2746 so far, and (although this worries me) I've seen it pull as high as 445watts. Now I'm worried about my 750w psu...

 

[MultiiCore_]

Sell the 1080 ti for 200-250 at least(maybe even more) and CPU+mobo+RAM for like 100-150$ and get aa nice modern new CPU+Mobo+RAM combo which will last you for at least 5 years for your use case.

I am baffled everyone in this thread tried to push down your throat Ray Tracing even though it's clear you ain't gonna use it that much. Still the 7800 XT should be fine for Portal RTΧ.

Μodern CPUs, even budget on the new market are monsters. Even a 50-60$ Ryzen 4100 matches/beats your 6700k. Even a 12100f will be a huge upgrade. Let alone a minimum 5600/12400f combo selling your old stuff can get you.

Then don't touch the PC until your backlog clears.

EDIT: You can also replace the PSU if you think it will blow up or something.