For a good year or so the QNAP 1105-5T was the cheapest 2.5G switch on the market. I never bought one, despite needing one, because wherever you look it has reviews/threads/comments saying that it just drops connections. It's basically faulty and fails to work as a basic unmanaged switch. All of the customer feedback is basically "yeah, I couldn't work out wtf was wrong with my network but when I replaced the switch with something else the problem went away and everything has been flawless ever since"

So, as much as I want the cost of 2.5G switches to come down to ubiquitous 1G prices, I cannot blindly accept that something as simple as an unmanaged ethernet switch is "good" to buy from QNAP any more.

Most midrange boards now incorporate 2.5G NICs and most NAS devices, even if they're basic single-bay devices, will allow copies at the ~200MBs of a typical hard drive. Gigabit ethernet is showing its age but affordable, reliable 2.5G switches have been few and far between.

newtekie1I have the 5-port Mkrotik switch. There is no need to stagger 10Gbe RJ45 transceivers, you can load it up with 4 and it will be just fine, the same goes for the 9-port. Though the only PoE function of the 5-port switch is that the 1Gbe port can be connected to a PoE switch to power the Mikrotik. The Mikrotik itself doesn't output PoE.

You can also buy 10Gbe transceivers for $40 of amazon right now. In all, the switch and transceivers aren't super cheap, but they also aren't stupid expensive anymore either. And if it wasn't for 2.5Gbe taking over, the prices probably would have come down even more by now.

Exactly,....

~$40 per port for Transceivers is an extra expense that can't just be ignored even for a 4 port switch. Still ~$40 is considerably less then it used to be. Also DAC cables and Fiber are much cheaper typically. The Mikrotik SFP+ switches aren't like those surplus enterprise switches and I don't put much thought into heat and Transceiver placement. It just works and 10GbE is reasonably fast if you have the SSD's or RAM-Drive to keep up. Still even 2.5GbE seems fast, its 1GbE that is insufferably slow.

Chrispy_Most midrange boards now incorporate 2.5G NICs and most NAS devices, even if they're basic single-bay devices, will allow copies at the ~200MBs of a typical hard drive. Gigabit ethernet is showing its age but affordable, reliable 2.5G switches have been few and far between.

To say nothing of Intel's I225-V 2.5GbE issues.

No one said that there wouldn't be some growing pains. Some 10GbE Switches (and or possibly SFP+ Transceivers) take some massaging to get working properly with 2.5GbE NIC's too or outright wont work properly yielding sub 1GbE speeds. I'll say it again for effect, sub 1GbE speeds!!!

TheLostSwedeThere aren't even routers with two 2.5Gbps ports... Although at least one or two are coming soon.
5Gbps is dead though, as no-one is really making products for it. The cost difference vs. 10Gbps is not there, whereas a 2.5Gbps Ethernet chip is not much more expensive than a 1Gbps chip.

Yes. Sad but true. I just wished there was, that's all. Even if they used a single 10Gb chip and divided it up to 2.5Gb to 4 ports or 4 ports on their own chips. I put cat6 and cat 6a in my home and had to demo a lot to do it. Maybe one day before I retire there will be lots of cheap 10Gb available.

OctaveanExactly,....

~$40 per port for Transceivers is an extra expense that can't just be ignored even for a 4 port switch. Still ~$40 is considerably less then it used to be. Also DAC cables and Fiber are much cheaper typically. The Mikrotik SFP+ switches aren't like those surplus enterprise switches and I don't put much thought into heat and Transceiver placement. It just works and 10GbE is reasonably fast if you have the SSD's or RAM-Drive to keep up. Still even 2.5GbE seems fast, its 1GbE that is insufferably slow.

IMO, if I'm putting money out to upgrade my network, I'm not going to go to an intermediate standard I'm just going to go straight 10Gbe.

The other thing to consider is, that for whatever reason, there just aren't unmanaged 10Gbe switches coming out. Part of what makes the 2.5Gbe switches cheaper is most of them are unmanaged. Most home users don't care if a switch is managed or not(heck this QNAP switch advertises being unmanaged like it is a good thing). A simple unmanaged 8-port 10Gbe switch would be cheaper, but they aren't really out there.

OctaveanNo one said that there wouldn't be some growing pains. Some 10GbE Switches (and or possibly SFP+ Transceivers) take some massaging to get working properly with 2.5GbE NIC's too or outright wont work properly yielding sub 1GbE speeds. I'll say it again for effect, sub 1GbE speeds!!!

There are also a lot of older 10Gbe NICs that just won't work at 2.5Gbe or 5Gbe, because they were out before those were standard. They only work at 10Gbe or 1Gbe, nothing in between. Bringing out these slower standards has only served to muddy the water.

newtekie1Meh, go 10Gbe or don't waste your money. I think the 2.5Gb standard has set the industry back. We were just starting to see 10Gbe standard start to make its way into home user settings and then 2.5Gbe comes and 10Gbe disappears.

10Gbe will run on Cat5e for runs up to about 150ft. You only need better cabling if you want to go the full 100m.


Comcast has been offering beyond 1Gbps for a while now.

most of the usa connections to the house dont even hit 100mb.

i agree with new.
hell best buy! sells (10gb cat 6) is dirt cheap.
also what swede said.

Hi

Lurker here although although active on other (mostly non tech) forums using same alias.

Stumbled into this thread as I was looking for a switch to add to my QNAP NAS and this initially looked exactly what I'm looking for...

But do you know if this does PoE that I could hook up done IP cameras? I'm assuming not as it doesn't mention it. If so then do you think this kind of rules this device out of its most likely use?

Does anyone have any recommendations for similar spec device that does PoE over combination of 1G for camera and/or 2.5G for other devices (PoE optional as they don't need PoE).

Thanks
Chris

crypticcHi

Lurker here although although active on other (mostly non tech) forums using same alias.

Stumbled into this thread as I was looking for a switch to add to my QNAP NAS and this initially looked exactly what I'm looking for...

But do you know if this does PoE that I could hook up done IP cameras? I'm assuming not as it doesn't mention it. If so then do you think this kind of rules this device out of its most likely use?

Does anyone have any recommendations for similar spec device that does PoE over combination of 1G for camera and/or 2.5G for other devices (PoE optional as they don't need PoE).

Thanks
Chris

This does not support PoE. Price wise you're probably much better off getting a PoE GbE switch for your cameras and a 2.5GbE switch for the more data intensive applications. I didn't look hard, but from a quick DuckDuckGo search the only PoE 2.5GbE switch I could find was the QSW-M2116P-2T2S at ~€670 for 16 ports + 2 10GbE ports.

ValantarThis does not support PoE. Price wise you're probably much better off getting a PoE GbE switch for your cameras and a 2.5GbE switch for the more data intensive applications. I didn't look hard, but from a quick DuckDuckGo search the only PoE 2.5GbE switch I could find was the QSW-M2116P-2T2S at ~€670 for 16 ports + 2 10GbE ports.

Wow. That's about alot of ports

crypticcWow. That's about alot of ports

Well, not that many for a business-oriented switch, but certainly more than most home switches. Given how rare 2.5GbE switches are at all, looking for that in combination with anything in particular is bound to lead to a very narrow range of options. You can get 8-port GbE PoE switches on Amazon from ~$60 and up (watch out that the switch can deliver enough power for what you want to connect), and cameras generally don't need that much bandwidth, so a GbE uplink to the 2.5GbE switch where the NAS and computers live should be perfectly fine.

OctaveanFWIW, I've seen 10GbE SFP+ to RJ45 Transceivers for as low as about ~$35 USD. Not super cheap but also not the ~$90 or so USD that used to be a guaranteed price point. Unfortunately prices can fluctuate on many products these days so I wouldn't be too surprised if they have gone up again but the last time I checked they were about ~$40 and I have about ~3 them. Now that I think about it, it would be interesting if there were cheaper 2.5GbE or 5GbE Transceivers but typical 1GbE Transceivers are fairly cheap.

As for the cost of SFP+ switches, Mikrotik has a 5 port (4 SFP+ and 1 1GbE) switch for about ~$135 USD (CRS305-1G-4S+IN). That IMO is really good with respect to price. It also has some PoE features (supposedly). I have a Mikrotik 9 port (8 SFP+ and 1 1GbE) for about ~$230 (CRS309-1G-8S+IN). I use a combo of DAC cables and Transceivers and I don't bother to stagger them. I haven't had any performance and or heat issues yet, although, I am only using about ~5 SFP+ ports currently. The switch is passively cooled too so it makes no sound and I've been running it for years. Thinking about getting another one,.....

newtekie1I have the 5-port Mkrotik switch. There is no need to stagger 10Gbe RJ45 transceivers, you can load it up with 4 and it will be just fine, the same goes for the 9-port. Though the only PoE function of the 5-port switch is that the 1Gbe port can be connected to a PoE switch to power the Mikrotik. The Mikrotik itself doesn't output PoE.

You can also buy 10Gbe transceivers for $40 of amazon right now. In all, the switch and transceivers aren't super cheap, but they also aren't stupid expensive anymore either. And if it wasn't for 2.5Gbe taking over, the prices probably would have come down even more by now.

Well, it's good to hear that the snotty and condescending networking snobs over on the TrueNAS forums don't know everything. Seriously, you wouldn't believe the amount of shit I got for saying I wanted a 2.5GbE setup and anything more would be complete overkill (along the lines of "2.5GbE is technically inferior and shouldn't be used by anyone in any context, and even 10G copper is really shit, fiber is the only valid option", just in 4-5 lengthy paragraphs at a time with zero willingness to adjust for context or use case). Though IMO SFP+ with transcievers, while practical in some sense, is still overcomplicated and too expensive. The native copper version of that Mikrotik 4+1-port switch is about $200, so far less than the SFP+ one + 4 transcievers even at $40 apiece + $135 for the router. And you'd be pushing it in terms of heat/power with four copper transcievers in there, at least with some models - Cisco lists their SFP-10G-T-X at 2.5W, or 10W for four, meaning that you'd be well above the 18W power rating of the switch when accounting for the 10W base power of the unit. I don't doubt that it might work (and hopefully there are more efficient transcievers these days), but it's definitely on the sketchy side. Of course there's also the issue where most 10G transcievers (as well as most 10G NICs on the used market) not supporting nGbE at all.

IMO, SFP+ has zero value outside of professional and high-end enthusiast settings. The list of impracticalities is just too long. The advantages are very much real, but IMO far outweighed by the inherent practical issues. If it's for you, great - then you have access to a decent selection of semi-affordable high performance networking gear. But for the rest of us, the advent of nGbE is a godsend for anyone wanting to make use of networked storage or with lots of users on a network.

mechtechYes. Sad but true. I just wished there was, that's all. Even if they used a single 10Gb chip and divided it up to 2.5Gb to 4 ports or 4 ports on their own chips. I put cat6 and cat 6a in my home and had to demo a lot to do it. Maybe one day before I retire there will be lots of cheap 10Gb available.

Most router SoCs aren't made with fast connectivity, so they have to go via the PCIe bus, which is usually limited to two or three interfaces, which means that you'd lose Wi-Fi radio. Some high-end router SoCs offer better connectivity, but so far only for a single port in most instances and you don't want the LAN and WAN port sharing a switch.

That's a bit hardcore @Valantar for four cameras and a PC or two. But I take your point on the tip. Good idea to split the requirements

crypticcThat's a bit hardcore @Valantar for four cameras and a PC or two. But I take your point on the tip. Good idea to split the requirements

Yep, exactly my point - unless you're running a business with a bunch of cameras and multiple high-bandwidth clients, a single PoE+2.5G switch just isn't a sensible option today. It might be in the future, but given that these needs generally don't overlap (i.e. few devices need both 2.5G and PoE), specialized hardware for each is likely to be the most cost-effective solution for quite a while yet.

ValantarWell, it's good to hear that the snotty and condescending networking snobs over on the TrueNAS forums don't know everything. Seriously, you wouldn't believe the amount of shit I got for saying I wanted a 2.5GbE setup and anything more would be complete overkill (along the lines of "2.5GbE is technically inferior and shouldn't be used by anyone in any context, and even 10G copper is really shit, fiber is the only valid option", just in 4-5 lengthy paragraphs at a time with zero willingness to adjust for context or use case). Though IMO SFP+ with transcievers, while practical in some sense, is still overcomplicated and too expensive. The native copper version of that Mikrotik 4+1-port switch is about $200, so far less than the SFP+ one + 4 transcievers even at $40 apiece + $135 for the router. And you'd be pushing it in terms of heat/power with four copper transcievers in there, at least with some models - Cisco lists their SFP-10G-T-X at 2.5W, or 10W for four, meaning that you'd be well above the 18W power rating of the switch when accounting for the 10W base power of the unit. I don't doubt that it might work (and hopefully there are more efficient transcievers these days), but it's definitely on the sketchy side. Of course there's also the issue where most 10G transcievers (as well as most 10G NICs on the used market) not supporting nGbE at all.

IMO, SFP+ has zero value outside of professional and high-end enthusiast settings. The list of impracticalities is just too long. The advantages are very much real, but IMO far outweighed by the inherent practical issues. If it's for you, great - then you have access to a decent selection of semi-affordable high performance networking gear. But for the rest of us, the advent of nGbE is a godsend for anyone wanting to make use of networked storage or with lots of users on a network.

Well from my perspective there is room in the market for much of what we see here. Some of it may be niche or stopgap but if it gets the job done then so be it. However, the one thing I would like to see get gone is 1GbE, all other comers are welcome IMO. This is in part why I purchased a QNAP QSW-1105-5T switch. The Mikrotik CRS309-1G-8S+IN SFP+ switch was purchased for similar reasons. However, in the case of the Mikrotik I already had 3 or 4 SFP+ 10GbE NICs just sitting around doing nothing for a couple years (got them for next to nothing). When I learned of the Mikrotik switches I thought it would be perfect for a primary and secondary computer along with a NAS and server (one DYI and one Dell PowerEdge R720xd) all in close proximity. So in that use case DAC cables were cheap and Fiber as an option wouldn't break the bank either. Buying SFP+ to RJ45 Transceivers didn't really enter into the initial equation but became a viable option later down the line. Its probably a bad idea to buy a 10GbE SFP+ switch with the intention of fully populating it with SFP+ to RJ45 Transceivers. In that case just buy a copper switch. Naturally if you're planning to use all the ports on a new switch day one then it might be a good idea to buy a bigger switch or buy two.

BTW, I haven't seen "the copper version of that Mikrotik 4+1", it sounds like a good option too. I haven't been able to find it yet to evaluate it.

ValantarYep, exactly my point - unless you're running a business with a bunch of cameras and multiple high-bandwidth clients, a single PoE+2.5G switch just isn't a sensible option today. It might be in the future, but given that these needs generally don't overlap (i.e. few devices need both 2.5G and PoE), specialized hardware for each is likely to be the most cost-effective solution for quite a while yet.

There is another, older unit that has been around for a while:

Netgear MS510TXPP (not to be confused with the UP model, as Netgear's website sometimes does). I found mine at Microcenter, and before the pandemic they used to come down to ~$280.

All POE+, 4x 1GbE, 2x 2.5GbE, 2x 5GbE, 1x 10GbE RJ45, and one SFP+ (10GBE). They do sell a non POE version, too. The UP model referenced above does POE++ (limited to 60W each port, rather than 90W) and has 2.5GbE on 4 ports, 10GbE on the remaining 4 RJ45 ports, and 2 SFP+ slots.

I have the MS510TXPP. Outside of fan noise, it's a pretty okay unit. I know it's a POE switch, but even without running many POE devices (down to 1 - an AP), it draws quite a bit of power at idle. As such, I am looking to replace it with something passive in the future. Hopefully, whatever it is, will have 2.5GbE, POE, SFP+ (maybe even SFP28), and is managed. Not looking for all that many POE ports. Just enough to run a few APs. I've been tempted to just run my few POE devices from injectors instead. Just trying to get a switch that is like the MS510TXPP but quiet is a bit of an unicorn search.

Link to all referenced switches above: Smart Switches - MS510TXUP | NETGEAR

EDIT: As an aside, it does seem like all switches with more than a couple of 10GbE RJ45 ports are actively cooled. I imagine that power consumption is another thing holding back 10GbE. There is at least one switch from Qnap that has 4x 2.5GbE and 2x 10GbE and is passive. Not managed (No VLANs), though.

RJ45 version
QSW-2104-2T | A plug & play switch featuring 10GbE and 2.5GbE connectivity, suited for SOHO and professionals | QNAP (US)
SFP+ version
QSW-2104-2S | A plug & play switch featuring 10GbE and 2.5GbE connectivity, suited for SOHO and professionals | QNAP (US)