Valve Inflicts European Gamers with $1 = €1 Equation

[WhiteLotus]

The problem is that with the new price they just have to sell 10-20% the number of games they used to sell in order to make the same profit and they save in administrative expenses, server trafic, etc. Do you think there's not going to be 1 out 10 or 1 out of 5 that will buy the games? There's going to be surely, so we already lost. They have just become elitists and it does work as an economic model. Many hardware vendors have followed that route and car manufacturers, etc.

Then those 1 out of 5 people are fools. Just get the game from the cheapest location. Always a firm or a company will undercut the competition.

 

[DarkMatter]

Spain's economy wasn't "booming" because socialist influence. If anything they are living off the fat of the past government of the late 80's and 90's. However you went from a 5% growth to a 3% growth under your "socialist" government. Your growth is slowing and in 20 years you may be back where you started. IF you don't start picking up some Capitalist practices soon. As for your comment about Russia and Cuba Ill repeat myself and say Socialism is the transitional stage between Capitalism and Communism. One is proven to work and the other has been proven to fail. Why would you even consider any practice out of a failed "ism".

Also Ill quote Churchill all day. The man was a genius.

You have not the slightest idea of the economy of my country, so don't try to teach me anything. In the 80's and 90's SOCIALISTS were in charge too, it was in late 90's and start of 21th century that the right took the place so...

You talk about the growth in the current socialist government (why the quotes BTW?) yes it's been lower. How about in the US? Ah too. Crisis maybe? It doesn't come one morning you know, although they only tell you when it already is unavoidable. The growth of the economy would have been the same even if High Elves were in charge of the government. If socialists had been earlier in charge maybe things would have been better. And not because they are socialist, but because who the others were.

PLUS economy is not all that matters when it comes to politics.

EDIT: Uh oh and socialism is not necesarily the transitional stage to comunism. You can choose whatever you want to be, you can stop anywhere in between. I never said I want a socialist world, but some ideas certainly need to be borrowed.

And you're better off putting capitalism in that list of failed ism's because id HAS failed, BADLY. It took Russia 20 years to realize/admit it, so take your time.

Now that we are talking history let's make it clear why communism failed: as funny as it may sound Hollywood. The movies, which showed the best of capitalism, the luxury and glamour of the powerful and never the lower end of the story, made the communism fail. Because in a country were everybody was equal (maybe poor but equal) what was shown in the movies led them to believe everybody in the capitalist countries were like the ones in movies. That destroys optimism and leads to a fail. How many good minds escaped from the USSR? Yeah they had a reason, a opressing government, but does not have anything to do with the economic model. The communist leaders too contributed to the fail, of course, they implemented a good idea very badly because they never believed in communism themselves, just used it as a way to control the masses and become powerful and rich.

What I mean is that it is not the economic model what failed, but the countries implementing it. For instance, China is comunist AFAIK, and you are very naive if you think they are not going to be the first power in the world really soon.

 

[TheMailMan78]

You have not the slightest idea of the economy of my country, so don't try to teach me anything. In the 80's and 90's SOCIALISTS were in charge too, it was in late 90's and start of 21th century that the right took the place so...

You talk about the growth in the current socialist government (why the quotes BTW?) yes it's been lower. How about in the US? Ah too. Crisis maybe? It doesn't come one morning you know, although they only tell you when it already is unavoidable. The growth of the economy would have been the same even if High Elves were in charge of the government. If socialists had been earlier in charge maybe things would have been better. And not because they are socialist, but because who the others were.

PLUS economy is not all that matters when it comes to politics.

EDIT: Uh oh and socialism is not necesarily the transitional stage to comunism. You can choose whatever you want to be, you can stop anywhere in between. I never said I want a socialist world, but some ideas certainly need to be borrowed.

And you're better off putting capitalism in that list of failed ism's because id HAS failed, BADLY.

By definition they were socialist in the 80s and 90s but their economic practices were very capitalistic. Not like your current "right" which is leading you right down the road to Communism. Also a country can not stand on a weak economy. Economics may not be the only factor in politics but it is one of the biggest. As for "borrowing" you can't have your cake and eat it to. It doesn't work that way. Eventually the greed for power out weighs the good of the people. With capitalism the people have the power. The choice to buy and to sell at whatever the market dictates. The current "crisis" is only effecting people that didn't see it coming. Personally I am making a killing and couldnt be happier. However if I lived under a socialist government I wouldn't be so happy. The government would have to make me play "fair".

As for capitalism failing that has yet to be proven and or happen in over 200 years.

The bottom line is don't buy from Steam if you don't agree with them keeping up with the market. But don't act as if they did something wrong ether and stop crying and answer with your dollars.

 

[DarkMatter]

By definition they were socialist in the 80s and 90s but their economic practices were very capitalistic. Not like your current "right" which is leading you right down the road to Communism. Also a country can not stand on a weak economy. Economics may not be the only factor in politics but it is one of the biggest. As for "borrowing" you can't have your cake and eat it to. It doesn't work that way. Eventually the greed for power out weighs the good of the people. With capitalism the people have the power. The choice to buy and to sell at whatever the market dictates. The current "crisis" is only effecting people that didn't see it coming. Personally I am making a killing and couldnt be happier. However if I lived under a socialist government I wouldn't be so happy. The government would have to make me play "fair".

As for capitalism failing that has yet to be proven and or happen in over 200 years.

The bottom line is don't buy from Steam if you don't agree with them keeping up with the market. But don't act as if they did something wrong ether and stop crying and answer with your dollars.

Capitalism has failed, the crisis proves that. The fact that you are taking advantage of it, while millions are suffering even in your country just proves that. The fact that you don't care about those inmates suffering proves that.

"With capitalism the people have the power."

Couldn't be more wrong. With capitalism COMPANIES have ALL the power. People have NONE. And as an example don't have to search too much, Valve and what they are doing. M$, Intel...

 

[erocker]

Stay on topic.


V V I agree. V V

 

[DarkMatter]

Stay on topic.

We have covered all aspects of the topic IMO. Close the thread if you see fit.

 

[TheMailMan78]

Capitalism has failed, the crisis proves that. The fact that you are taking advantage of it, while millions are suffering even in your country just proves that. The fact that you don't care about those inmates suffering proves that.

"With capitalism the people have the power."

Couldn't be more wrong. With capitalism COMPANIES have ALL the power. People have NONE. And as an example don't have to search too much, Valve and what they are doing. M$, Intel...

So start your own company and have "power" if you feel this way. I'm sorry people made bad moves with their money. But why am I responsible to take care of them? They didn't help me make my money. Why should I share it to fix their mistakes? I already pay to many damn taxes for welfare. Capitalism has been far worse off than this. I have a feeling your to young to know this however. The "crisis" going on now is caused by the media and sensationalists like yourself. Has it failed? Not in the least. My bank account and my countries capitalist history proves it.

 

[DarkMatter]

So start your own company and have "power" if you feel this way. I'm sorry people made bad moves with their money. But why am I responsible to take care of them? They didn't help me make my money. Why should I share it to fix their mistakes? I already pay to many damn taxes for welfare. Capitalism has been far worse off than this. I have a feeling your to young to know this however. The "crisis" going on now is caused by the media and sensationalists like yourself. Has it failed? Not in the least. My bank account and my countries capitalist history proves it.

LOL. What about the lay-offs? Just because YOU are well means nothing. And in respect to all the people suffering because they have not a job, many kids and a lot to pay I'll ask you to not say "crisis". THERE is a crisis, the biggest ever so don't be a foul.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

I actually haven't seen any of this "crisis" yet in my neck of the woods. The "crisis" is in places where major companies have collapsed due to unregulated greed. In areas far away from there, life is good. We have ridiculously low interest rates and everyone is in the market to trade up a house. It's nuts.

 

[TheMailMan78]

LOL. What about the lay-offs? Just because YOU are well means nothing. And in respect to all the people suffering because they have not a job, many kids and a lot to pay I'll ask you to not say "crisis". THERE is a crisis, the biggest ever so don't be a foul.

The biggest ever? Jesus I hope your life stays this "tragic". God forbid anything actually major happen.

 

[DarkMatter]

The biggest ever? Jesus I hope your life stays this "tragic". God forbid anything actually major happen.

Please just finish the nonsense. Yes it's the biggest ever, more than the one in the 29, the economic machinery is just a little bit better prepared this time to selfsustain (with just some little side effects). That doesn't mean is not much worse, that is affecting much more people and that the scars are going to take much longer to fix. In fact one of the reasons that the economy is doing better this time around is because of the numerous lay-offs (as I said some little side effects). Sure the companies survive and the people that still hold their jobs are fine. It's also a dream for lucky brokers and those with lots of stocks. And who cares about that 10-20% of the people who is losing their jobs, right? Losing their houses, their cars? The ones that will never be able to pay the university for their children, etc. It just happens in places... right FordGT90? In places . Jesus I have never known people with such a lack of solidarity . And to think I was asking you to be solidary with us in the EU and you are unable to feel the real pain of your neighbourgs...

I simply don't get it, so because it's not affecting you, there's no crisis. You both look like the kind of guy that would say "hunger? what hunger? I have my breakfast just here" when people were dying on their feet pegging for just a bit of it. LAME.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

The Great Depression had a 24.9% unemployment rate nationally. United States is at 6.7% right now...

Sorry, I'm just not that concerned right now. I have no reason to be. Maybe when that figure hits 10%, I'll give it a once-over but until then, it's just the media blowing the situation way out of proportion as usual.

 

[btarunr]

This is a content forum thread. It will remain open to user comments forever. Stop posting if you're done with your argument, do not prolong an argument that's already gotten 10 miles south of the topic. Just because a few of you had your debate, I won't deny someone who reads this news article, from posting comments in the future.

Thread won't close.

 

[Wile E]

Fair enough.

I believe that as the consumer isn't receiving the same goods as bought in store, it should be cheaper. For example, no CD (so no physical backup), no Box, no manual,.. and also steam users are saving the company money by using it's services it should pass on those savings to it's consumers.

You have a valid point, but i don't entirely agree, so lets just agree to disagree

You still don't get it? They are selling games, yes. BUT at retail they are selling much more things than the game. They are selling you the box, they are selling the manual, they are selling you the games with many different language options. I don't caree if you think that hasn't any value. It DOES and it should be priced accordingly.

There's also the fact that they want to charge more in one area, when it costs them the same. And no matter how you look at it, that's wrong. I don't care what your distorted view of what's fair makes you believe, it's not fair for us, that's our opinion, and the right to complain is OURS, not YOURS. This doesn't affect you so you shouldn't have posted in this thread in the first place, much less to contradict our opinons on something that shouldn't matter to you. PERIOD.

And with Steam, you are paying for convenience which retail games do not provide. You give up a box and case for a system that allows you to install and play your game on any computer anywhere, as long as you have an internet connection.

And you say different markets shouldn't have different prices, yet retail games do. I am in this thread contradicting opinions that are based purely on emotion, and little fact.

 

[DarkMatter]

And with Steam, you are paying for convenience which retail games do not provide. You give up a box and case for a system that allows you to install and play your game on any computer anywhere, as long as you have an internet connection.

Convenience? First of all most games are not traduced to the languajes in the EU, retail does. Manual are definately lacking, traduced manuals? Try find them. In the US maybe Steam is lightning fast to download, NOT here. Plus I have never had an inconvenience installing my games in as many computers as I wanted. Not even Bioshock.

EDIT: Anyway maybe I heard the wrong rumor, but according to that, Steam didn't free up the games from having th DRM that would not allow you to install more than x times. Anyway, as I said I never reached the limit with Bioshock and installed it what I calculate as being like 8 installations. I definately won't install any gamee more times.

And you say different markets shouldn't have different prices, yet retail games do. I am in this thread contradicting opinions that are based purely on emotion, and little fact.

At retail the prices are not different here or the US, NOT for the publisher, who gets the same or almost the same money. Most of the 50€ cake goes for the people in the store, truckers, etc. I don't care if you don't apreciate those, but that's why the game costs more in the EU. I apreciate the human interaction in my deal and with steam you get NONE. Without those only the publisher gets all the pie and there's no freaking reason they sould aim for a higher margin in the EU than in the US. They make the game for x amount, they sell it for x+y EVERYWERE, just as ANY OHTER PUBLISHER does.

 

[silkstone]

And with Steam, you are paying for convenience which retail games do not provide. You give up a box and case for a system that allows you to install and play your game on any computer anywhere, as long as you have an internet connection.

Retail stores provide plenty of convenience for most people, some people actually enjoy getting up from their computers and going into town to do something. I know i do. And jeez, "play anywhere any time as long as you have an internet connection"? Really? How many people have computers that they use to play games at seperate locations? How many people don;t have a USB stick on their keyring that can't just put the game on there? How many people might go over to their friends' with the game to play multi-player and install on multiple computers?


Steam will only survive because of the die hard gamers (who can't wait to own the game the minute it's relased), those with enough money not to care, and the lazy. A vast majority of people enjoyed using steam because it was cheaper than retail. At the end of the day Stream will still profit, even with the loss of customer base as they will be able to make bigger profits from a smaller customer base - Do you believe the company wouldn't have thought of this? It will also turn a lot of gamers to piracy (the lazy+poor) who will think, "hey i can get the same service (even better sometimes) if i use torrents, whih will be bad for the industry in general."

So in summary this move is bad for everyone apart from Steam.
The original steam users lose out on the steam service because they will not pay an inflated price.
The people still using storm lose out for obvious reasons.
And the industry loses out in general as more people move to piracy.
Another knock on effect is that the dev loses out as they are getting less $$$ as previous steam users move to piracy.

Ok so your point - "Don't use it if you don't like it, or vote with your dollars" is valid, it insn't taking into account the big picture, you are only thinking of the individual users who use steam.
This is the first step in a troublesome trend, It seems the video gaming industry is moving in the direction of the music industry where developers/artists get the smallest slice of the pie. And games will be knocked out as fast as one-hit wonders with about as much quality and we will have to accept that fact as the publisher will be in control.
I still remember the days when anyone with a speccy, tape recorder and enough free time could become a developer and the games back then were some of the best i have ever played. (do i sound like an old man?)

At retail the prices are not different here or the US, NOT for the publisher, who gets the same or almost the same money. Most of the 50€ cake goes for the people in the store, truckers, etc. I don't care if you don't apreciate those, but that's why the game costs more in the EU. I apreciate the human interaction in my deal and with steam you get NONE. Without those only the publisher gets all the pie and there's no freaking reason they sould aim for a higher margin in the EU than in the US. They make the game for x amount, they sell it for x+y EVERYWERE, just as ANY OHTER PUBLISHER does.

Yup, i agree. The dev are not seeing any of the extra money which is not a good thing. i believe credit should be given where it is due. As i said above i think this can only hurt the developers.
Most people do not mind spending extra money for something when they understand where the money is going. In this case there will be a lot of confused people.

To mailmain> calling them Greedy isn't a knee jerk reaction. What does every publisher or every corporation want at the end of the day? To make their share-holders happy. How do they do this? By making as much money as possible and then spending as little as possible. I would call this the definition of greedy.
Greedy = strongly desiring more than required: having an overwhelming desire to have more of something such as money than is actually needed

I would define most big companies as being greedy (although not all).
And no i don;t go round complaining about every company under the sun, but when it is happening right under your nose and just to brush it off as saying "that's life" or "that's ok, every one else does it" is not acceptable.
I am unhappy with the situation and steam give a good example of what is happening. Seeing as individuals alone have little chance of effecting what is happening it is upto the people who represent us to do something about it. the people that represent us being the governments, whom to which we pay taxes. But seeing as people are happy with just saying - "Well that's capitalism" this will never happen. So for our governments to step in and stop excessive greed on our behalf does not represent socialism.
I am familiar with socialism, i live in a socialist country. It is not, by the way Mailman, in transition to becoming a communist country (that period has come and gone). And at the moment, the small business owner is king. It is still actually possible to run a business here and make a profit (although things are rapidly changing). And things are much cheaper when the corporations are not given too much leeway to do as they wish by using the excuse"that's capitalism!"

 

[FordGT90Concept]

I wouldn't be at all surprised if the money was going towards a server farm somewhere in Europe as a download server for Europeans. Maybe a lot of that is to pay for an OC line to the place which costs $1000+ USD a month. At the same time, Europe has overall faster Internet connections than USA so it makes sense why they would make that move. Once they get over the initial cost of the hardware, they may lower the rate again.

But you also got to consider all the various taxes throughout Europe too. By standardizing the price, they save a lot of complex calculations for tax time making it easier for them to file a return.

They may also be preparing to change over to a unified point system like most consoles use for online purchases.

Additionally, most developers are wholly owned subsidiaries of publishers so the publisher collects the payment and answers the developers' request for more money. The publisher, in effect, is a bank that developers borrow from. Because of the growth of Internet transactions, the need for publishers is rapidly disappearing/changing purpose (as demonstrated by the music industry).

 

[crazy pyro]

If the games industry does go the way of the music industry I'll seriously rethink the investment in my desktop, installing games is already longwinded enough without any more DRM/

 

[erocker]

This is a content forum thread. It will remain open to user comments forever. Stop posting if you're done with your argument, do not prolong an argument that's already gotten 10 miles south of the topic. Just because a few of you had your debate, I won't deny someone who reads this news article, from posting comments in the future.

Thread won't close.

Thank you bta! The next time someone goes off topic, or goes on some useless rant they will be infracted.

 

[btarunr]

Thank you bta! The next time someone goes off topic, or goes on some useless rant they will be infracted.

All yours.

 

[sherrjo]

Like others have said on here, it's not the taxes you pay -- it's the taxes Steam has to pay for doing business in Europe. They're probably quite a bit higher than they are in America, so in turn, they pass on the cost of that to European consumers.

Even if it's a "completely digital content distribution system," they still have to deal with European banks and regulatory agencies to get European gamers' credit card payments accepted, and doing these things incur taxes and fees.

Like I said, though, they could be a bit more delicate about doing it, rather than treating all currency as if it was equal (which it's not).

DVD.CO.UK, PLAY.COM AMAZON.CO.UK all games are between 30-60% cheaper in € than valve and all companies trade in Europe they have the same tax worries as Valve in europe yet can sell boxed retail games for nearly 50% less than valve.

Also most EU customers are also complaining about not being able to buy in UK pounds. (The UK seems to have the correct rates for games at valve.)

Thing is the buyer is king and most customers know where to get the cheapest deal. Valve Europe (if such an entity even exists?) will be hurting through loss of sales this quarter that's a 100% guarantee.

 

[sherrjo]

Again I ask you guys across the Atlantic what do you pay for an Xbox360 game or a PS3 game in the store?

Bought Condemned 2 in the UK for £15 bought Dead Space for £27 in the UK

Current exchange rate (from American express Euro account) was .954p/1€

Saw Oblivion for £8 (new) in Game (uk store)

I've never paid more than £32 for a PS3 game even GTAIV 2 weeks after release.

Shop around and you can get deals.

However here in Belgium should I go to my nearest store it's a whopping 69€ for a new title however you'd have to be a beers short of a keg to pay that price