The 4870 "2D Low", GPU voltage/Memory clock rate Bios Thread

[mattkosem]

Thanks. I'll give that a try when I get home. My plan is to knock both down, but I only initially started with the GPU to test the water.

--Matt

Removing the profile.xml before rebooting and flashing allowed me to push the memory clock down to 400. Still no dice on the core clock, but it doesn't look like lowering it would help anyways. I tried pushing the memory down to 300, but windows BSODs when loading the ATI driver with it that low. I'll probably give 350 a shot in a bit. The drop from 500 to 400 lowered my idle power utilization from 192w to 181w! Very nice for such a small drop!

Thanks for your help!

--Matt

EDIT: I'm able to get the memory down to 350mhz. Anything lower and it BSODs on one of the ATI DLLS before the colorful vista welcome screen appears. Here are the details: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showpost.php?p=3595004&postcount=9

 

[fullerms]

Hi all,

Did anyone manage to mod their Palit 4870 1Gb bios for lower clocks? I have the Sonic dual version, and want to reduce the 2D and UVD mode clocks.

Complete noob here, but understand the basics. Any pointers or guides will be very helpful.

 

[fullerms]

Anyone? Bump...

 

[fullerms]

But there still is no way to include lowered memory clocks in 2D IDLE, because you will get flickering no matter what the speed. Maybe this will change with Catalyst 8.8, which should be here soon. Cross your fingers...

Guys, did anyone figure out a way to get rid of that flickering? Will be neat to have an all in one solution through BIOS alone.

 

[eidairaman1]

ya know what stop spammin the site with triple posts, its late at night in the US and in like the noon in other parts of the world so they are probably busy at work, you wont get a proper reply probably until late morning for the us to the evening.

 

[fullerms]

ya know what stop spammin the site with triple posts, its late at night in the US and in like the noon in other parts of the world so they are probably busy at work, you wont get a proper reply probably until late morning for the us to the evening.

I have made 3 posts in 4 days, unfortunate that no-one else had replied to this thread. In the meantime, I have also uploaded the BIOS for the Palit 4870 1Gb Sonic in the meantime. My little contribution to this forum.

As for your comments on spamming, I would leave that judgement to the mods. Thank you.

 

[eidairaman1]

also another point the superbowl was on the 1st of Feb so im pretty sure most were watching that.

 

[nafets]

Nothing has changed as far as the HD4870's flickering when changing MEM speeds. This is all dependant on ATI's usage of PowerPlay (rather than driver-based, like the HD4870X2) for setting 2D and 3D speeds with the HD4870. An all-in-one BIOS just isn't feasible at this time, unless this changes.

If you want to use differing 2D and 3D MEM speeds for power saving, heat reduction or whatever, it's highly recommended you try Ati Tray Tools or Rivatuner. Both are excellent for setting whatever GPU/MEM speeds you want, along with different fan settings, and now (Rivatuner) even voltages for reference HD4870 card users.

UPDATE: I've recently done some further BIOS testing and have found that it's possible to set 2D memory clocks to 450MHz, with no flickering problems. Although this is new to me, I'm sure others have already figured this out. So if you're looking for an all-in-one, automatic power saving BIOS it is definetly doable. For 2D you can set it to 500/450@1.083v and for 3D to 750/900@1.263v. I've tested this out and it functions very well, and the power savings and heat reduction are quite good. Obviously if you use Rivatuner or ATT you can lower the memory clocks even more for increased power savings and heat reductions. But for people who are lazy and don't want additional software, these are great BIOS settings to use.

 

[fullerms]

If you want to use differing 2D and 3D MEM speeds for power saving, heat reduction or whatever, it's highly recommended you try Ati Tray Tools or Rivatuner.

Yeah, I have started playing around with ATT already. Noticed something strange though. The minimum ATT would go to with a "normal" BIOS is 490 / 760, which I assume comes from the BIOS itself. Had to flash the BIOS to the 160 / 225 settings you suggested, before ATT would allow me to lower the settings to that level. However, ATT allows me to keep those settings even if I flash to a "normal" BIOS afterwards.

I now have a "normal" BIOS with ATT doing 160 / 225 in 2D and 790 / 950 in 3D. Needs some testing before I try to OC the 3D settings. Thanks for the great thread guys , will be checking this one periodically for an "all in one" BIOS.

Edit: Update

Reflashed to the 160 / 225 bios to configure ATT. Noticed that there is no flickering now, after increasing the voltages to 1.263 for the "high modes" However, this seems to have broken UVD. I am unable to play HD content and SD suffers from occassional tearing. Ideas anyone? Screenshot of my settings

 

[nafets]

Some of my earlier testing and methodologies were a bit flawed for most users. That was over six months ago. Rivatuner and ATT have developed quite nicely since then and control the HD4870 fully without messing with your original card's BIOS. Reflash your BIOS with proper 2D/UVD/3D clocks as such;

2D: 500/900@1.263
UVD: 750/900@1.263
3D: 750/900@1.263

There is no need to flash your BIOS with lower GPU/MEM clocks, as the GPU/MEM clocks can be fully controlled by ATT. You just need to configure ATT properly to allow you greater underclocking abilities.

After you reflash your BIOS with the proper original clocks do the following in ATT:

1. Right click on the ATT system tray icon and select Tools & Options -> General Options
2. Click on the Advanced tab.
3. In the Overclocking Configuration section change the Downclock limit % to 85 or higher.

You should now be able to underclock both GPU and MEM to much lower levels than you would ever go...

--------------------

As I stated in a previous post it is possible to run with an all-in-one BIOS with pretty good power savings and heat reduction. The only time you would use this all-in-one BIOS is if you're not using Rivatuner or ATT to control your GPU/MEM clocks or voltages, as they would override PowerPlay and any settings in the BIOS.

During my limited testing I've found that the following settings work great with no noticeable flickering with PowerPlay's constant/random state changing;

2D: 500/450@1.083
UVD: 750/900@1.263
3D: 750/900@1.263

If anyone tries this out, let me know how it works for you...

 

[fullerms]

Quick question. Why is it that my BIOS has only 4 powerplay states (0-3), while the ones in your post have 5 (0 - 4) or more? Can I create more power play states?

 

[nafets]

The 5th state you're referring to is the newer "Thermal" state that was added to HD4870 BIOSes a number of months ago. It's fairly useless unless you cook your card frequently. I wouldn't worry about not having it.

You can't create additional PowerPlay states; only modify currently available ones in the BIOS you're editing...

 

[fullerms]

Even #3 is different. In my bios it reads the same as #1. Whereas in your screen shots #3 reads as "Accelerated 3D"?

 

[nafets]

Upload your BIOS as a zipped attachment, and I'll take a look at it.

UPDATE: I wised up and took another look at your screenshot. I see what you're saying about the description being different with the PowerPlay states. When the "Thermal" state was added to recent HD4870 BIOSes, the descriptions were rewritten. No big deal. Functionality is still the same.

Older ---> Newer
0 - Boot ---> 0 - Boot
1 - Power savings for notebooks... ---> 1 - Power savings for notebooks...
2 - UVD ---> 2 - UVD
3 - Power savings for notebooks... ---> 3 - Accelerated 3D
4 - Not there ---> 4 - Thermal

UPDATE 2: Your BIOS looks good. You should have full functionality in ATT now, being able to set your custom 2D and 3D GPU/MEM clocks along with voltages. Just make sure you follow the step to increase your downclocking limits...

 

[fullerms]

BIOS Attached

 

[LuxZg]

Hi nafets, long time no seen!

I see some major brakethroughs since start of February..

Few questions:
1) do you use Catalyst 9.1? Maybe something was changed in drivers during last 6 months..

2) I've noticed that you run memory at 450MHz 2D and 900MHz 3D. Could it be that there are no problems because it's exactly 2:1 ratio? I'm thinking - GDDR2/GDDR3 is duble data rate, so you can change it any way, but GDDR5 is "quad" so to say, so maybe we need to keep it at 2:1 ratios?

I know this point No2 is far fetched, but I'd really like to know. Unfortunately I'm selling my card on monday so I'm not willing to flash and reflash BIOS during weekend because I don't want to brick the card or something just a day before I should give it to the buyer ;D
But if someone, anyone, can try this out - that would be perfect! So we should have more people try BIOS with 450 2D/900 3D and 500MHz 2D/1000 3D, and get to the bottom of this. IF this is really true, I bet that all manufacturers would be real quick to post new BIOS-es for their cards!

I'll try to spread the word around a bit..

Btw, you probably wonder why I'm so interested and why the sudden appearance if I'm selling the card Well, as soon as I sell this one, I'll be looking for a new HD4870 card, most probably Gainward HD4870 1GB Golden Sample, so I'll still be in the same boat with you guys But I'll have to see how this whole dual-bios thing affects the card and BIOS flashing and all that..

Anyway, I sure hope that this flickering thing can really be solved finaly. It's the only stumbling block with HD4870 cards I have left..

Cheers!

 

[nafets]

Yeah, I've been busy just gaming, and not messing with my HD4870. Decided to make my way back here and see what has been going on in the forums. I probably should update my original post, but I doubt many people still read that big mess...

1. I am currently using Catalyst 9.1, driver-only install. It's possible something minor has changed in the drivers, with regards to how PowerPlay is handled with the HD4870, but I doubt it. More likely is that I just missed this in my original testing, over six months ago.

2. I am currently using a 2D/3D shortcut method (launcher) with Rivatuner. I merely just tested the all-in-one-BIOS method I mentioned, with different 2D/3D memory speeds, for a few days.

But I was helping another poster (Flash) here on TPU with his HD4870, and he mentioned an odd occurence with Rivatuner. He noticed that when setting MEM clocks from 900 to 500 and vice versa, that there was no flickering. But if you changed them from say, 900 to 300, and vice versa, there would be the usual flickering. I investigated further and narrowed this non-flicker range to be at around 450MHz, when moving to or from 900MHz.

So I edited my BIOS to 500/450 for 2D and the usual 750/900 for 3D. Flashed the card and booted up without using Rivatuner to set anything. Lo and behold, everything worked great, with no more flickering/flashing. PowerPlay was fully active and the usual 2D/3D state switching was present, whenever doing little things on the desktop like using scroll bars or minimizing/maximizing windows. No problems using windowed programs (Furmark) or full screen stuff (ETQW). The card properly ramped up to 3D speeds when necessary, and ramped back down to 2D speeds, upon exiting the program and at the desktop.

I didn't test any other ranges, as you mention, like 500MHz MEM for 2D and 1000MHz for 3D. It's certainly possible it's a 2:1 ratio, but I never tried it. It's just as likely you could also go from 450MHz 2D to 1000MHz 3D, but that is unknown by me, right now. I might fire up some more HD4870 test BIOSes and see what I come up with.

The only caution I have is that this range may not be the same for everyone's HD4870. It's possible some cards could be more sensitive to memory speed changes than others. So while my card doesn't flicker going to 450MHz from 900MHz, another person's card may only go down to say 475MHz from 900MHz, without flickering. I'd never guarantee speeds for anyone based on just the results from what my card can or can't do. That would be quite foolish.

The other reason I'm not too enticed by the all-in-one-BIOS method, is because I already know I can run as low as 225MHz MEM in 2D with lower voltage than what's allowed in the BIOS, for the absolute best power savings, not to mention having full control of the fan speed. All of this with just a few clicks via Rivatuner.

The all-in-one-BIOS method is mainly for people who don't want to have to do anything or install any additional software (Rivatuner/ATT) to control their card.

I'm not too sure any card manufacturers would be too interested in this, if it actually is feasible. From what I've seen many people recently have been getting new HD4870s with some very poorly set BIOSes (HIS and Powercolor). Problems like the card being underclocked in 3D windowed apps, underclocked UVD settings, OC'ed cards with underclocked MEM 2D settings (flickering!), and many other lousy things. Even if the manufacturers were to utilize this power saving all-in-one-BIOS method, they probably wouldn't set the BIOS properly anyways. Go figure...

I'm sure you'll enjoy the Gainward HD4870. Seems to be a great card, if you can get that smaller fan to run a little slower. The dual BIOS thing seems to be more a gimmick than anything else. But I'm sure it's fun to play with. Basically you control what BIOS the card boots up with via the little switch on the back panel, near the DVI plugs. Switch it to the normal setting for slower speeds, and to the turbo setting for the higher speeds. When flashing the BIOS, you can only flash the BIOS that the card is currently set to. So to flash both BIOSes, you first need to flash the card with the normal replacement BIOS (with switch set to normal) --> reboot --> power down the PC. Change the switch to turbo. Power up the PC and flash it with the turbo BIOS --> reboot --> power down the PC. Change the switch back to normal. Power up the PC. Done. Fairly easy to do.

 

[LuxZg]

Thanks for the lenghty description, never occured to me that I could replicate this using ATT/Riva (!!). So I'll be installing latest ATT right away, and check if there is flickering or not. Easy way, at least for preliminary results

As for RivaTuner/ATi Try Tools being better solution, sure, they are.. all controls are handy to modify at any point, and you can tweak the card way better, and like you've said - even achieve better power savings.
But there are also some problems with different OSes and software solutions, and there is also probability that some (or all) of these programs won't run on Windows 7 Beta and such. We shouldn't forget non-Win OS as well.. So there are still plenty of reasons to work on a better BIOS.

Not to mention that it would be awsome if you'd buy a card, and it already had 2D memory clocks lowered by default.. Though by your expirience - this would probably end up as a disaster

As for Gainward card, they have the smaller fan connected to same cable/connector as big one in 1GB series - so no problems there And thanks for the confirmation about BIOS flashing on dual-BIOS cards!

EDIT: Hmm.. tried all available memory clocks from 400-500 switching to/from 900MHz in ATT - and I always get the flicker Win XP SP3, Catalyst driver 9.1 complete with CCC, reference board..

 

[nafets]

Try using Rivatuner for testing out the "flicker range", if possible. It works differently than ATT in setting GPU/MEM clocks. Currently using Rivatuner 2.22...

I'm doing some testing now with modified BIOSes set with the following Memory ranges:

2D       3D
445MHz   900MHz  (less than 1:2)
450MHz   900MHz  (1:2)
455MHz   900MHz  (more than 1:2)
500MHz   900MHz  (something not so close to the minimum)
445MHz   1000MHz (seeing if ~450MHz is an absolute minimum)
450MHz   1000MHz (seeing if ~450MHz is an absolute minimum)
455MHz   1000MHz (seeing if ~450MHz is an absolute minimum)
495MHz   1000MHz (less than 1:2)
500MHz   1000MHz (1:2)
505MHz   1000MHz (more than 1:2)

I'll post back later with my results in testing in 2D (random actions on the desktop), 3D Windowed (Furmark), and 3D Fullscreen (Furmark). If you have any other suggestions for ranges, post them and I'll try them when I get a chance...

(Geez, I must have flashed this card's BIOS chip over 300 times now!)

 

[LuxZg]

Thanks for trying all those combos. I'm downloading new Riva, so I'll try once more with diffrent combinations myself..

EDIT: Tried RivaTuner as well (2.2) and still flickering whenever I go to/from 450 <->900 and 500<->900 and bunch of values in between 450&500.
EDIT2: Weird, as I just read what Flash says below.. will try more.. Do I have to make profiles or is it enough to scroll the slider to/from 450<->900 and press apply after change? Cos that's how I did it and always got flickers.. But like I've said, I'll try different ways of doing it..

 

[Flash]

I have tried different clocks on the memory, and 450mhz is the lowest you can go without flickering.

Also, there is no ratio between the mhz you are changing from/to, the flicker is caused only to what mhz memory you are changing to.

For example, it does not matter you are going from 300 to 900, or 350 to 900 or 450 to 900. When you switch to 900 it will never flicker. Same for 500, same for 450. It will never flicker when you change to these values. So it's basically dependent on the value you are changing to.

Also, there are a few more ranges between 500 to 900 where you memory will flicker, so it's not just "it will flicker when you are setting your memory to low."

 

[nafets]

Interesting stuff Flash, thanks! I'll put my thoughts on Rivatuner and flickering on the back burner, for now. I'm just focused on what I can come up with for this all-in-one-BIOS method, irregardless of how the clocks below may or may not flicker when setting them with Rivatuner/ATT.

-----

I've finally completed my testing of BIOSes with differing 2D/3D memory clocks. Surprising results abound, I'm wondering why I didn't see this in my original testing.

I'm actually typing this post out while using the 450MHz -> 925MHz BIOS, all without any flickering/flashing/screen shakes!

2D MEM   3D MEM
225MHz   900MHz  (1:4) [b]Flicker/Screen shake[/b]
225MHz   1000MHz (just testing) [b]Flicker/Screen shake[/b]

445MHz   900MHz  (less than 1:2) [b]Flicker/Screen shake[/b]
450MHz   900MHz  (1:2) [b]Works great![/b]
455MHz   900MHz  (more than 1:2) [b]Flicker/Screen shake[/b]

450MHz   925MHz  (just testing) [b]Works great![/b]

500MHz   900MHz  (something not so close to the minimum) [b]Works great![/b]

445MHz   1000MHz (seeing if ~450MHz is an absolute minimum) [b]Flicker/Screen shake[/b]
450MHz   1000MHz (seeing if ~450MHz is an absolute minimum) [b]Works great![/b]
455MHz   1000MHz (seeing if ~450MHz is an absolute minimum) [b]Flicker/Screen shake[/b]

495MHz   1000MHz (less than 1:2) [b]Works great![/b]
500MHz   1000MHz (1:2) [b]Works great![/b]
505MHz   1000MHz (more than 1:2) [b]Works great![/b]

So what does all this mess mean? My thoughts for setting memory speeds in the all-in-one-BIOS are;

1. The HD4870s memory controller likes 450MHz for an underclocked memory speed. Is it a coincidence that it's half of the default speed of 900MHz? Maybe. There could be some technological explanation of why 450MHz works, but the explanation would probably just confuse me anyways. So if you have a stock card with 900MHz memory, or even if it's overclocked to say 925MHz or 1000MHz, you can set your card's BIOS to a 2D memory clock speed of 450MHz, and PowerPlay should function properly without any flickering, flashing, or screen shaking.

2. Values lower than 450MHz will result in the flickering/flashing/screen shake anomaly. Avoid setting your card's BIOS to 2D memory clock speeds lower than 450MHz. Period.

3. Values higher than 450MHz up until a certain point will result in the flickering/flashing/screen shake anomaly. Further testing could find where this point is (IE......it could be around 475MHz), but I'm too tired to do any more BIOS flashing tonight. Since a value of 450MHz is the lowest, and has worked for me with most any 3D memory clock (900,925,1000), there's really no reason to use anything higher than 450MHz. The key is getting the most power savings and heat reduction possible, with an all-in-one-BIOS.

4. The only thing that remains for me, is whether this can be replicated by other users with their HD4870s. While it's nice that this new discovery works for me on my card, it would be even nicer if this was something that is applicable to everyone, and not just a random isolated event.

-----

I look forward to seeing if anyone can come up with the results I have, as it would finally put a decent close on this whole thread. The end result being a properly functioning all-in-one-BIOS (or working settings) that includes greater (or the greatest possible) power savings and heat reduction over the standard BIOS that usually ships with most HD4870s.

 

[LuxZg]

nafets - thanks once more for the extensive testing. As soon as I get my new card I'll try to set 2D memory clocks in BIOS to 450MHz and report here. Unfortunately, that means waiting at least few more days, possibly till the end of week Also, I'll be getting Gainward card which is completely non-reference (whole PCB design, 1GB of memory, and as such - BIOS as well) so I'm not sure if it will be of much help to most users that do have reference-design cards. But maybe more people will try the "trick" if they see at least one more confirmation.

Let's just keep the fingers crossed for a next few days, and see you soon I hope!

 

[VuurVOS]

Also got flikkers when using ATT, Overdrive and RivaTuner. I am using the 105 bios. Which bios do you use to avoid flikkering ?

 

[nafets]

Also got flikkers when using ATT, Overdrive and RivaTuner. I am using the 105 bios. Which bios do you use to avoid flikkering ?

You need to modify the 2D settings in your current BIOS, save it, and reflash your card.

I have used (for testing) and am currently using the 11X-1E8501SA-001 BIOS available from Sapphire. I've found it to be more stable than the 113-B50701-105 BIOS from ATI, I was previously using.

It's for any reference 512MB HD4870s only. I can't comment on it's use or compatibility with non-reference 512MB HD4870s.

Download it here: http://us.sapphiretech.com/driver/478.zip