I'm moving to the dark side!

[Frizz]

What games were giving you problems with duel 4850s? I'm curious.

Its not giving me problems, its a good time to upgrade as prices are being cut down pretty damn quickly and i doubt anyone in two or three months will consider paying for a used 4850 with a cool looking heatsink for 210 - 250 aud as prices from other manufacturers with just as decent heatsinks are charging for the same 200 - 250 AUD price even now.

I'm basically trying to reap the benefits from these cards by selling them to mainstream users and stepping up for just a hundred or more dollars.

The GTX 285 is highly considered because its on par with two 4850's but with no multi-gpu scaling to deal with and the consistency of its performance is 100% at all times, but then again prices are $559-$600+ AUD.

Compared to a 4870 1GB the prices are cut in half, now $305 AUD compared to gtx285's $559 - $600+ price range, the price per performance 4870 1GB would > gtx285 and 4870 1GB crossfire could even benefit me more by doubling the price per peformance ratio and beating the 285 by raw performance on its own for the same price but again the consistency of the crossfire config won't be 100% which may lead me to the same situation in the future.

 

[ShadowFold]

I went from a GTX 280 to an HD 4830, I wasn't impressed by the 280. The drivers suck and it wasn't that much better than the 4830 in gaming once I overclocked the 4830. I would wait for the 4890 to come out and grab a 1ghz edition. In the post above, you say a 4870 is half the price of a 280.. Do you really think it's worth it?

 

[Mussels]

oh, by scaling issues you mean GPU's not scaling in crossfire? i thought you meant image scaling when not running in native res/aspect ratio.

 

[wolf]

oh, by scaling issues you mean GPU's not scaling in crossfire? i thought you meant image scaling when not running in native res/aspect ratio.

yeah what im talking about is falling back to single GPU FPS while gaming, nothing in the realm of aspect ratio or the like

 

[Tatty_Two]

hah i got the first vote

4870 1GB crossfire... cause its easier to upgrade the cooling than an x2!

Wont be in about a week!

 

[Frizz]

I was looking at synthetic benchmarks/game benchmarks and reviews online... not really a big difference with gtx260/280/285/hd48701gb, I've also been looking at TPU charts and it doesn't really show the 280 or 285 giving a worth it boost for the price in australia.
The only upgrade from 4870 1GB would be gtx 295 or 4870x2.. but I may as well just go crossfire because its cheaper, I've never had problems with this config, it scales just fine and my windowed applications will run alot smoother even if just one 4870 is being used.

I could always wait for the 4890 too but we'll see how that price goes! my last 4850 ends today, money is still transferring ~.~ I want my 4870 already lolol.

 

[Frizz]

/bump

I know where my money is going now

http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=193_800&products_id=11039

 

[Mussels]

/bump

I know where my money is going now

http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=193_800&products_id=11039

jesus! they came out quick!

 

[Frizz]

jesus! they came out quick!

Hah yeah, I doubt they are able to distribute it, gotta give them a call.. I don't think I can wait til april lol as I was hoping to upgrade tomorrow before the weekend.

 

[Tatty_Two]

I was looking at synthetic benchmarks/game benchmarks and reviews online... not really a big difference with gtx260/280/285/hd48701gb, I've also been looking at TPU charts and it doesn't really show the 280 or 285 giving a worth it boost for the price in australia.
The only upgrade from 4870 1GB would be gtx 295 or 4870x2.. but I may as well just go crossfire because its cheaper, I've never had problems with this config, it scales just fine and my windowed applications will run alot smoother even if just one 4870 is being used.

I could always wait for the 4890 too but we'll see how that price goes! my last 4850 ends today, money is still transferring ~.~ I want my 4870 already lolol.

Isnt that what I have been telling you all along? The 285 will give you a performance improvement but only a very slight and probably un-noticeable one. I would either stick with what you have, or maybe sell the 2 HD4850's and get a really good and overclockable 1GB HD4870, something like the HIS ICE-Q 4 or the Asus Dark Knight, you can easily mod the BIOSes of these cards (if your that way inclined) now to give you some extreme core speeds and with those cards aftermarket cooling you will have a stormer and no cost once you sell the 4850's, damn just through a BIOS mod last night that raises my HD4870x2's voltage from 1.25V to 1.35V I went from 840mhz on the core out of the box to 895mhz! I had to put it back though because of heat, once the Accelero Xtreme x2 cooler is out next week I can hopefully keep her at that voltage.

 

[Binge]

I'm coming back into this because I see the GTX295 is a possibility... just to share some results.

_____________FRAMEBUFFER- CRYSIS WARHEAD_____________________
Processor: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7 CPU 920 @ 2.67GHz @ 3997 Mhz
CPU ID: Intel64 Family 6 Model 26 Stepping 4
Operating System: Microsoft® Windows Vista™ Ultimate 64-bit Service Pack 1
Physical memory: 6.00 GB
Display adapter: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 295 0 MB
Video Processor: NVxx
Overclocked: Yes / Multi-GPU: No (2)
Driver version: 7.15.11.8206 (20090209171800.000000-000)
GPU clocks: 701/1512/1147
Motherboard: DFI DFI LP UT X58 1.0

==============================================================
TimeDemo Play Started , (Total Frames: 1882, Recorded Time: 56.90s)
!TimeDemo Run 0 Finished.
Play Time: 46.12s, Average FPS: 40.81
Min FPS: 31.69 at frame 1642, Max FPS: 49.96 at frame 1519
Average Tri/Sec: 24126938, Tri/Frame: 591222
Recorded/Played Tris ratio: -0.32
!TimeDemo Run 1 Finished.
Play Time: 44.72s, Average FPS: 42.08
Min FPS: 31.69 at frame 1642, Max FPS: 49.96 at frame 1519
Average Tri/Sec: 24803490, Tri/Frame: 589391
Recorded/Played Tris ratio: -0.32
!TimeDemo Run 2 Finished.
Play Time: 44.36s, Average FPS: 42.43
Min FPS: 31.69 at frame 1642, Max FPS: 50.96 at frame 1570
Average Tri/Sec: 24826268, Tri/Frame: 585150
Recorded/Played Tris ratio: -0.32
TimeDemo Play Ended, (3 Runs Performed)
==============================================================
//////////// Summary \\\\\\\\\\\\\

03/25/2009 04:42:13 - Microsoft® Windows Vista™ Ultimate 64-bit Service Pack 1

DirectX 10 ENTHUSIAST 3X @ Map: frost @ 0 1920 x 1080 AA 2x
==> Framerate [ Min: 31.69 Max: 50.46 Avg: 42.26 ]

=====> Validation code: 81-D0-F4-5E-5F-45-E9-10-9A-D3-FD-AC-02-79-E3-EA

::EDIT::

OLD RESULTS with 4870x2 and E8600 @ 4.4GHz 1280x1024 NO AA Map: Airfield Flythrough.

Processor: Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU E8600 @ 3.33GHz @ 4441 Mhz
CPU ID: Intel64 Family 6 Model 23 Stepping 10
Operating System: Microsoft® Windows Vista™ Ultimate 64-bit Service Pack 1
Physical memory: 4.00 GB
Display adapter: ATI Radeon HD 4870 X2 1024 MB
Driver version: Catalyst 8.10 (8.541-080923a-069997C-ATI)

==============================================================
TimeDemo Play Started , (Total Frames: 2000, Recorded Time: 85.82s)
!TimeDemo Run 0 Finished.
Play Time: 41.09s, Average FPS: 48.68
Min FPS: 34.76 at frame 95, Max FPS: 62.72 at frame 1407
Average Tri/Sec: -49226368, Tri/Frame: -1011245
Recorded/Played Tris ratio: 0.97
!TimeDemo Run 1 Finished.
Play Time: 38.47s, Average FPS: 51.99
Min FPS: 34.76 at frame 95, Max FPS: 64.77 at frame 1987
Average Tri/Sec: -51027272, Tri/Frame: -981506
Recorded/Played Tris ratio: 1.00
!TimeDemo Run 2 Finished.
Play Time: 38.10s, Average FPS: 52.49
Min FPS: 34.76 at frame 95, Max FPS: 65.49 at frame 1995
Average Tri/Sec: -52311228, Tri/Frame: -996586
Recorded/Played Tris ratio: 0.99
TimeDemo Play Ended, (3 Runs Performed)
==============================================================

//////////// Summary \\\\\\\\\\\\\

10/15/2008 19:51:56 - Microsoft® Windows Vista™ Ultimate 64-bit Service Pack 1

DirectX 10 ENTHUSIAST 3X @ Map: airfield flythrough @ 8 1280 x 1024 AA 0xx
==> Framerate [ Min: 34.76 Max: 65.13 Avg: 52.24 ]


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If you ask me the airfield flythrough is the easiest of all the maps. There's no action... no explosions... just flying around an airfield. Still the 4870x2 had problems with this map getting over 40fps... if I take AA off and lower the resolution to this with the 295 the results aren't pretty to compare.

 

[Frizz]

I'm actually targeting the gtx 295 now... since me and my guitarist decided to hold off producing music with a protools soundcard my budget is alot higher.

 

[Binge]

the last thing I posted was about how my gtx295 would destroy a 4870x2 at a lower resolution with no AA and whelp... here are the results.

Processor: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7 CPU 920 @ 2.67GHz @ 3997 Mhz
CPU ID: Intel64 Family 6 Model 26 Stepping 4
Operating System: Microsoft® Windows Vista™ Ultimate 64-bit Service Pack 1
Physical memory: 6.00 GB
Display adapter: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 295 0 MB
Video Processor: NVxx
Driver version: 7.15.11.8206 (20090209171800.000000-000)
Motherboard: DFI DFI LP UT X58 1.0

==============================================================
TimeDemo Play Started , (Total Frames: 2000, Recorded Time: 85.82s)
!TimeDemo Run 0 Finished.
Play Time: 36.42s, Average FPS: 54.91
Min FPS: 43.59 at frame 109, Max FPS: 69.47 at frame 1987
Average Tri/Sec: -47313912, Tri/Frame: -861672
Recorded/Played Tris ratio: 1.14
!TimeDemo Run 1 Finished.
Play Time: 34.46s, Average FPS: 58.05
Min FPS: 43.59 at frame 109, Max FPS: 69.47 at frame 1987
Average Tri/Sec: -47922036, Tri/Frame: -825577
Recorded/Played Tris ratio: 1.19
!TimeDemo Run 2 Finished.
Play Time: 34.21s, Average FPS: 58.46
Min FPS: 43.59 at frame 109, Max FPS: 69.47 at frame 1987
Average Tri/Sec: -49455936, Tri/Frame: -845965
Recorded/Played Tris ratio: 1.16
TimeDemo Play Ended, (3 Runs Performed)
==============================================================

//////////// Summary \\\\\\\\\\\\\

03/25/2009 05:03:28 - Microsoft® Windows Vista™ Ultimate 64-bit Service Pack 1

DirectX 10 ENTHUSIAST 3X @ Map: airfield flythrough @ 8 1280 x 1024 AA 0x
==> Framerate [ Min: 43.59 Max: 69.47 Avg: 58.26 ]

=====> Validation code: F3-D1-2F-5A-4F-AE-72-18-33-F9-46-9F-97-C7-0B-E1

Truth be told I saw the game hit above 69 fps... so who knows wtf this program is smoking. Still the biggest difference is the low fps. It's a difference of 9 frames.

 

[Frizz]

Drool @ those results, I wouldn't be expecting much different fps at 1680x1050 very high and no aa correct?

I'm wondering what kind of bottleneck my q6600 would put on this baby :S

 

[Binge]

I can't say I wasn't trying for higher marks with my 4870x2 either. I had it heavily overclocked to 850 on the core 1000 on the memory, which is a lot without a volt mod.

If you look... my 1920x1080 with 2xAA isn't far behind these scores @1280x1024. 1680x1050 would get better scores than the 1920x1080. Take AA off and it'll be a larger difference.

 

[Frizz]

I can't say I wasn't trying for higher marks with my 4870x2 either. I had it heavily overclocked to 850 on the core 1000 on the memory, which is a lot without a volt mod.

If you look... my 1920x1080 with 2xAA isn't far behind these scores @1280x1024. 1680x1050 would get better scores than the 1920x1080. Take AA off and it'll be a larger difference.

Its a clash of the titans, 4870x2 and gtx295 aren't far off from each other by price and maybe in some cases performance, but since 4890x2 is going to be released later on, I rather have the latest card from one company than the second best because this is alot of money for me and a one chance at getting one of the best and most expensive cards right now.

Be prepared to be surprised, or not, by what I order tomorrow ^^

 

[Tatty_Two]

Its a clash of the titans, 4870x2 and gtx295 aren't far off from each other by price and maybe in some cases performance, but since 4890x2 is going to be released later on, I rather have the latest card from one company than the second best because this is alot of money for me and a one chance at getting one of the best and most expensive cards right now.

Be prepared to be surprised, or not, by what I order tomorrow ^^

There is no doubts the 295 is the better card across the board and in some cases, by a fair margin and if the price difference isnt huge on a 4870x2 then IMO if you want high end, thats the only way to go, but before you do, as I have said before, if you want loads of eye candy to get the most from your investment just watch the 4870x2 climb up and the 295 slide down testing the cards at 1280 resolutions does not show the true colours or the strengths of either but the lower the res, the stronger position the 295 will be in generally.

Again as I said before, I chose the 4870x2 for one reason only, and thats because I play games at 19xx res with 8 x AA and in most things with that amount of AA the 4870x2 wins at a cheaper price I think.

At your res, the 295 would be the better option unless you like HUGE amounts of AA.

 

[Frizz]

/bump

second card sold for 230 AUD, 450 AUD in total... I can definitely choose from the high end cards for < than half price.

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320352365132

 

[Binge]

There is no doubts the 295 is the better card across the board and in some cases, by a fair margin and if the price difference isnt huge on a 4870x2 then IMO if you want high end, thats the only way to go, but before you do, as I have said before, if you want loads of eye candy to get the most from your investment just watch the 4870x2 climb up and the 295 slide down testing the cards at 1280 resolutions does not show the true colours or the strengths of either but the lower the res, the stronger position the 295 will be in generally.

Again as I said before, I chose the 4870x2 for one reason only, and thats because I play games at 19xx res with 8 x AA and in most things with that amount of AA the 4870x2 wins at a cheaper price I think.

At your res, the 295 would be the better option unless you like HUGE amounts of AA.

Are you blind man? I gave him an example of the 295 at high res. You were missing the point of my comparison. In fact now I wonder why I posted so many results in the first place... If I can find higher res results of the 4870x2 I will post them, but I know for a fact they aren't pretty. I mean they actually bite dirt pretty hard.

::EDIT::
Found more old benchmarks. Again E8600 @ 4.4ghz

Update: I've been pulling my hair out all today and I've also had a few choice words I wanted to say to the folks at ATI for making my blood boil. Thanks to Fit and a few friends on MSN I've got the card in working order. As much as I want to holler at the manufacturer and get an RMA I feel I've worked for the card now.

Today I learned certain measures must be taken to control a situation:
http://img357.imageshack.us/img357/8046/ownedah1.png

First I would like to say this was NOT an easy answer. Two steps away from reformatting. The crazy idea dawned when I was directed by Fit to check out Erocker's thread on removing graphics drivers, a must read. I started uninstalling anything and everything that had some sort of strange relation with my old drivers for the 4870. Cleaning wasn't too hard, and I'm no stranger to the registry editor. This really wasn't that hard. The brick wall hit when I would install a driver off of a fresh boot and then restart again. Everything I wanted to make work was still broken... except CoD4 but that always worked. Two grenades, a few DEagle headshots, and an airstrike later I thought I should reinstall everything that wasn't working. I also wanted to see what was really the problem, so being neurotic I cloned all of my HDD to 4 identical drives. Yay! Long short, on my 2nd attempt at removing a single piece of software and looking for an improvement all of my problems were fixed. After all the clean up which probably helped stability; the thing I've been griping about the most, 3Dmark Vantage, was the real problem.

If I put it back on my system all of the corruptions happen again, and I've contacted futuremark in order to get a refund. Hopefully they fix their crap program.

Thanks again to Fitseries and the gang from MSN for all of their support.

P.S. Whatever performance issues in Crysis Wars had after my x2 was working were fixed with the help of EastCoast's guide to Crysis Warhead. Mad props.

Thanks again and schweet! She's making short work of this Warhead bench


//////////// Summary \\\\\\\\\\\\\

10/13/2008 01:15:40 - Microsoft® Windows Vista™ Ultimate 64-bit Service Pack 1

DirectX 10 ENTHUSIAST 3X @ Map: frost flythrough @ 8 1680 x 1050 AA 0xx
==> Framerate [ Min: 25.06 Max: 42.68 Avg: 33.27 ]

annndddd.... found this old one of my GTX280. The difference between it, the 4870x2 and the 295 is something to notice.

Min fps is lower from the 280 to the 4870x2 but average and max are only about 2fps away from each other. Sure you can blast AA with the 4870x2 but it will still have less fps than the score posted above. Who wants less than 30 fps for the sake of killing a few jaggies @1680x1050? Why not just get the 295 and be able to afford the AA hit and still get above 40 average fps?

 

[Frizz]

If I don't use AA will this justify the gtx295's performance?? I play at 1680x1050 I really only use AA for games like WoW or games that have low - mid range graphics to make it look more acceptable.

EDIT: I'm really not interested in upgraded my monitor to a bigger size either, this is the limit for me, any bigger I might end up having a pair of testicles for eyes.

 

[Tatty_Two]

No I'm not blind, if you look at what I said..... i said high res WITH 8 x AA, your tests were not with 8 x AA (unless I really am blind), I actually agreed with you apart from the AA thing which you have already rightly pointed out is where the HD4870x2 is strong and manages to close the gap a bit, if I hadnt agreed I would not have said that he should get the 295 becuase it is the better card, the x2 only starts to compete at higher res with lots of AA, that does not take away the fact that the 295 IS the better card, I was not making a play for what is the best, meerly clarifying some facts.

 

[VulkanBros]

Coming up for Sale [UK/EU] in the next few weeks will be: Q9650, Anus P5Q3 Deluxe P45 Mobo, Antec P182 and perhaps 2GB of VERY nice GSkill HZ DDR3 - all as shown in my specs


ehhhh.....Anus P5Q3 Deluxe P45 Mobo.....I better not ask where you bought that mobo

 

[Binge]

No I'm not blind, if you look at what I said..... i said high res WITH 8 x AA, your tests were not with 8 x AA (unless I really am blind), I actually agreed with you apart from the AA thing which you have already rightly pointed out is where the HD4870x2 is strong and manages to close the gap a bit, if I hadnt agreed I would not have said that he should get the 295 becuase it is the better card, the x2 only starts to compete at higher res with lots of AA, that does not take away the fact that the 295 IS the better card, I was not making a play for what is the best, meerly clarifying some facts.

I don't see how 8xAA can be an argument when fps gets well below 30 with either card and that blinded me to your point. Sorry Tatty.

 

[Tatty_Two]

I don't see how 8xAA can be an argument when fps gets well below 30 with either card and that blinded me to your point. Sorry Tatty.

No need to apologise, I know where you are coming from but thats just in that game, in some other games the FPS hit wont be as big to make the game un-playable, most reviews of the 295 only go upto 4xAA which pretty much makes your point more valid in as much as perhaps for most 8x AA is overkill, I did say it was just a personal thing to me, generally, at the high and really high res going from even 0 x AA to 2 x AA shows a much greater hit on FPS for the 295 than it does the x2 but of course you are right...... if you have those extra FPS in the first place because the 295 is faster then the end product still favours the 295.... which is why I agreed with you and said the 295 is the better card!

 

[Tatty_Two]

Coming up for Sale [UK/EU] in the next few weeks will be: Q9650, Anus P5Q3 Deluxe P45 Mobo, Antec P182 and perhaps 2GB of VERY nice GSkill HZ DDR3 - all as shown in my specs


ehhhh.....Anus P5Q3 Deluxe P45 Mobo.....I better not ask where you bought that mobo

The Darkside