• Welcome to TechPowerUp Forums, Guest! Please check out our forum guidelines for info related to our community.

32 bit vs 64 bit: How it relates to video cards

Status
Not open for further replies.

crtecha

New Member
Joined
Dec 8, 2008
Messages
2,407 (0.41/day)
Location
ipsay meechigan
System Name Coolin Runnings
Processor AMD X4 Phenom 9950 B.E. @ 3.3ghz
Motherboard Gigabyte GA-MA790x-DS4 BIOS Ver. F6
Cooling CM Vortex 752
Memory apacer PC6400 800mhz x 2
Video Card(s) Two ATI Radeon 4850's in xfire
Storage Seagate 7200.9 320gig+250gigx2
Display(s) Acer P191w 19' wide
Case Antec 900
Audio Device(s) onboard
Power Supply Antec Power trio 550watts
Software Windows 7 x64 Build 7100
Great post Mussels. I'm glad im out of the 32bit club :)
 

Mussels

Freshwater Moderator
Joined
Oct 6, 2004
Messages
58,413 (7.96/day)
Location
Oystralia
System Name Rainbow Sparkles (Power efficient, <350W gaming load)
Processor Ryzen R7 5800x3D (Undervolted, 4.45GHz all core)
Motherboard Asus x570-F (BIOS Modded)
Cooling Alphacool Apex UV - Alphacool Eisblock XPX Aurora + EK Quantum ARGB 3090 w/ active backplate
Memory 2x32GB DDR4 3600 Corsair Vengeance RGB @3866 C18-22-22-22-42 TRFC704 (1.4V Hynix MJR - SoC 1.15V)
Video Card(s) Galax RTX 3090 SG 24GB: Underclocked to 1700Mhz 0.750v (375W down to 250W))
Storage 2TB WD SN850 NVME + 1TB Sasmsung 970 Pro NVME + 1TB Intel 6000P NVME USB 3.2
Display(s) Phillips 32 32M1N5800A (4k144), LG 32" (4K60) | Gigabyte G32QC (2k165) | Phillips 328m6fjrmb (2K144)
Case Fractal Design R6
Audio Device(s) Logitech G560 | Corsair Void pro RGB |Blue Yeti mic
Power Supply Fractal Ion+ 2 860W (Platinum) (This thing is God-tier. Silent and TINY)
Mouse Logitech G Pro wireless + Steelseries Prisma XL
Keyboard Razer Huntsman TE ( Sexy white keycaps)
VR HMD Oculus Rift S + Quest 2
Software Windows 11 pro x64 (Yes, it's genuinely a good OS) OpenRGB - ditch the branded bloatware!
Benchmark Scores Nyooom.
added a small update to the end. wow, did that post get me a loooot of thanks.
 
Joined
Jun 28, 2008
Messages
1,668 (0.28/day)
Location
Newcastle
Processor Intel Core i5 3570K
Motherboard MSI H61m-P31/w8
Cooling Stock
Memory 2*8GB DDR3
Video Card(s) XFX HD7850
Case Coolermaster Elite 330
Audio Device(s) Realtek HD audio
Power Supply Corsair RM650
Software Windows 10
I'm guessing that ridiculous new dual GTX285 would make it impossible to actually use a 32 bit OS then would it?
 

Mussels

Freshwater Moderator
Joined
Oct 6, 2004
Messages
58,413 (7.96/day)
Location
Oystralia
System Name Rainbow Sparkles (Power efficient, <350W gaming load)
Processor Ryzen R7 5800x3D (Undervolted, 4.45GHz all core)
Motherboard Asus x570-F (BIOS Modded)
Cooling Alphacool Apex UV - Alphacool Eisblock XPX Aurora + EK Quantum ARGB 3090 w/ active backplate
Memory 2x32GB DDR4 3600 Corsair Vengeance RGB @3866 C18-22-22-22-42 TRFC704 (1.4V Hynix MJR - SoC 1.15V)
Video Card(s) Galax RTX 3090 SG 24GB: Underclocked to 1700Mhz 0.750v (375W down to 250W))
Storage 2TB WD SN850 NVME + 1TB Sasmsung 970 Pro NVME + 1TB Intel 6000P NVME USB 3.2
Display(s) Phillips 32 32M1N5800A (4k144), LG 32" (4K60) | Gigabyte G32QC (2k165) | Phillips 328m6fjrmb (2K144)
Case Fractal Design R6
Audio Device(s) Logitech G560 | Corsair Void pro RGB |Blue Yeti mic
Power Supply Fractal Ion+ 2 860W (Platinum) (This thing is God-tier. Silent and TINY)
Mouse Logitech G Pro wireless + Steelseries Prisma XL
Keyboard Razer Huntsman TE ( Sexy white keycaps)
VR HMD Oculus Rift S + Quest 2
Software Windows 11 pro x64 (Yes, it's genuinely a good OS) OpenRGB - ditch the branded bloatware!
Benchmark Scores Nyooom.
I'm guessing that ridiculous new dual GTX285 would make it impossible to actually use a 32 bit OS then would it?

it would work, but you sure wouldnt be getting its full potential.
 

qubit

Overclocked quantum bit
Joined
Dec 6, 2007
Messages
17,865 (2.89/day)
Location
Quantum Well UK
System Name Quantumville™
Processor Intel Core i7-2700K @ 4GHz
Motherboard Asus P8Z68-V PRO/GEN3
Cooling Noctua NH-D14
Memory 16GB (2 x 8GB Corsair Vengeance Black DDR3 PC3-12800 C9 1600MHz)
Video Card(s) MSI RTX 2080 SUPER Gaming X Trio
Storage Samsung 850 Pro 256GB | WD Black 4TB | WD Blue 6TB
Display(s) ASUS ROG Strix XG27UQR (4K, 144Hz, G-SYNC compatible) | Asus MG28UQ (4K, 60Hz, FreeSync compatible)
Case Cooler Master HAF 922
Audio Device(s) Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Fatal1ty PCIe
Power Supply Corsair AX1600i
Mouse Microsoft Intellimouse Pro - Black Shadow
Keyboard Yes
Software Windows 10 Pro 64-bit
Nice explanation there, Mussels. I already understand how this works, but your post is a great place to direct my friends to, who are less knowledgeable on this subject.

A well deserved thanks. :rockout:

EDIT: In fact, I now remember reading about this somewhere else a while ago (sorry, I can't remember where it was now) that went into great technical detail into what happens when a 32-bit app runs out of it's 2GB address space. In short, it bombs out and there's very little that can be done about it. The app developers have to take it into account, but most don't. They discussed how a particular game would crash and how a little more memory can be made available to 32-bit apps like that one with a startup switch, which invariably causes more problems than it solves.

Re-compiling the app as a 64-bit executable solves the problem completely.
 
Last edited:

Mussels

Freshwater Moderator
Joined
Oct 6, 2004
Messages
58,413 (7.96/day)
Location
Oystralia
System Name Rainbow Sparkles (Power efficient, <350W gaming load)
Processor Ryzen R7 5800x3D (Undervolted, 4.45GHz all core)
Motherboard Asus x570-F (BIOS Modded)
Cooling Alphacool Apex UV - Alphacool Eisblock XPX Aurora + EK Quantum ARGB 3090 w/ active backplate
Memory 2x32GB DDR4 3600 Corsair Vengeance RGB @3866 C18-22-22-22-42 TRFC704 (1.4V Hynix MJR - SoC 1.15V)
Video Card(s) Galax RTX 3090 SG 24GB: Underclocked to 1700Mhz 0.750v (375W down to 250W))
Storage 2TB WD SN850 NVME + 1TB Sasmsung 970 Pro NVME + 1TB Intel 6000P NVME USB 3.2
Display(s) Phillips 32 32M1N5800A (4k144), LG 32" (4K60) | Gigabyte G32QC (2k165) | Phillips 328m6fjrmb (2K144)
Case Fractal Design R6
Audio Device(s) Logitech G560 | Corsair Void pro RGB |Blue Yeti mic
Power Supply Fractal Ion+ 2 860W (Platinum) (This thing is God-tier. Silent and TINY)
Mouse Logitech G Pro wireless + Steelseries Prisma XL
Keyboard Razer Huntsman TE ( Sexy white keycaps)
VR HMD Oculus Rift S + Quest 2
Software Windows 11 pro x64 (Yes, it's genuinely a good OS) OpenRGB - ditch the branded bloatware!
Benchmark Scores Nyooom.
Nice explanation there, Mussels. I already understand how this works, but your post is a great place to direct my friends to, who are less knowledgeable on this subject.

A well deserved thanks. :rockout:

EDIT: In fact, I now remember reading about this somewhere else a while ago (sorry, I can't remember where it was now) that went into great technical detail into what happens when a 32-bit app runs out of it's 2GB address space. In short, it bombs out and there's very little that can be done about it. The app developers have to take it into account, but most don't. They discussed how a particular game would crash and how a little more memory can be made available to 32-bit apps like that one with a startup switch, which invariably causes more problems than it solves.

Re-compiling the app as a 64-bit executable solves the problem completely.

supreme commander was a great example. Prior to the expansion (when they patched it to be 2GB+ aware) the game would crash out if you used high graphics settings on 80KM maps, and the game lasted over an hour.

when diagnosing the crashes we noticed lots of XP users would crash out and the game would use 1.5-1.75GB of ram in their task manager - it was always 2GB minus their video card. thats what started me off into researching this whole thing.
 

W1zzard

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
May 14, 2004
Messages
27,700 (3.70/day)
Processor Ryzen 7 5700X
Memory 48 GB
Video Card(s) RTX 4080
Storage 2x HDD RAID 1, 3x M.2 NVMe
Display(s) 30" 2560x1600 + 19" 1280x1024
Software Windows 10 64-bit
i think lots of information in this thread is incorrect. i'm on my way to computex now so dont have much time for a full reply.

afaik there is no mirroring of vga memory into usermode. ever. use this to check the validity of yoru assumptions. 32-bit apps have 2 gb user mode address space and 2 gb kernel address space.
 

Mussels

Freshwater Moderator
Joined
Oct 6, 2004
Messages
58,413 (7.96/day)
Location
Oystralia
System Name Rainbow Sparkles (Power efficient, <350W gaming load)
Processor Ryzen R7 5800x3D (Undervolted, 4.45GHz all core)
Motherboard Asus x570-F (BIOS Modded)
Cooling Alphacool Apex UV - Alphacool Eisblock XPX Aurora + EK Quantum ARGB 3090 w/ active backplate
Memory 2x32GB DDR4 3600 Corsair Vengeance RGB @3866 C18-22-22-22-42 TRFC704 (1.4V Hynix MJR - SoC 1.15V)
Video Card(s) Galax RTX 3090 SG 24GB: Underclocked to 1700Mhz 0.750v (375W down to 250W))
Storage 2TB WD SN850 NVME + 1TB Sasmsung 970 Pro NVME + 1TB Intel 6000P NVME USB 3.2
Display(s) Phillips 32 32M1N5800A (4k144), LG 32" (4K60) | Gigabyte G32QC (2k165) | Phillips 328m6fjrmb (2K144)
Case Fractal Design R6
Audio Device(s) Logitech G560 | Corsair Void pro RGB |Blue Yeti mic
Power Supply Fractal Ion+ 2 860W (Platinum) (This thing is God-tier. Silent and TINY)
Mouse Logitech G Pro wireless + Steelseries Prisma XL
Keyboard Razer Huntsman TE ( Sexy white keycaps)
VR HMD Oculus Rift S + Quest 2
Software Windows 11 pro x64 (Yes, it's genuinely a good OS) OpenRGB - ditch the branded bloatware!
Benchmark Scores Nyooom.
i think lots of information in this thread is incorrect. i'm on my way to computex now so dont have much time for a full reply.

afaik there is no mirroring of vga memory into usermode. ever. use this to check the validity of yoru assumptions. 32-bit apps have 2 gb user mode address space and 2 gb kernel address space.

i found it in a microsoft document, after being linked on the relic forums in a discussion about their DX10 patch. i think the document YOU linked to even discussed it - let me check.


edit: here we go

With the introduction of DirectX 10 and Windows Display Driver Model (WDDM) in Windows Vista, it is no longer necessary for an application to maintain a copy of its resources in system memory.

They discuss how the local copy of Vram was removed in DX10/WDDM1.0 and above.
 

W1zzard

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
May 14, 2004
Messages
27,700 (3.70/day)
Processor Ryzen 7 5700X
Memory 48 GB
Video Card(s) RTX 4080
Storage 2x HDD RAID 1, 3x M.2 NVMe
Display(s) 30" 2560x1600 + 19" 1280x1024
Software Windows 10 64-bit
copy of resources doesnt mean mirror of the whole memory. the wording also isnt clear if those copies are in user mode or kernel mode
 

Mussels

Freshwater Moderator
Joined
Oct 6, 2004
Messages
58,413 (7.96/day)
Location
Oystralia
System Name Rainbow Sparkles (Power efficient, <350W gaming load)
Processor Ryzen R7 5800x3D (Undervolted, 4.45GHz all core)
Motherboard Asus x570-F (BIOS Modded)
Cooling Alphacool Apex UV - Alphacool Eisblock XPX Aurora + EK Quantum ARGB 3090 w/ active backplate
Memory 2x32GB DDR4 3600 Corsair Vengeance RGB @3866 C18-22-22-22-42 TRFC704 (1.4V Hynix MJR - SoC 1.15V)
Video Card(s) Galax RTX 3090 SG 24GB: Underclocked to 1700Mhz 0.750v (375W down to 250W))
Storage 2TB WD SN850 NVME + 1TB Sasmsung 970 Pro NVME + 1TB Intel 6000P NVME USB 3.2
Display(s) Phillips 32 32M1N5800A (4k144), LG 32" (4K60) | Gigabyte G32QC (2k165) | Phillips 328m6fjrmb (2K144)
Case Fractal Design R6
Audio Device(s) Logitech G560 | Corsair Void pro RGB |Blue Yeti mic
Power Supply Fractal Ion+ 2 860W (Platinum) (This thing is God-tier. Silent and TINY)
Mouse Logitech G Pro wireless + Steelseries Prisma XL
Keyboard Razer Huntsman TE ( Sexy white keycaps)
VR HMD Oculus Rift S + Quest 2
Software Windows 11 pro x64 (Yes, it's genuinely a good OS) OpenRGB - ditch the branded bloatware!
Benchmark Scores Nyooom.
copy of resources doesnt mean mirror of the whole memory. the wording also isnt clear if those copies are in user mode or kernel mode

i originally found a clearer article elsewhere, i'm trying to locate it.

edit: google isnt helping me locate it, i dont know what wording they used in the article.

I remember it being discussed on the relic forums, they suggested vista 32 users with low amounts of system ram to use DX10 mode in order to reduce the memory overheads, due to it not mirroring. this was a few years back when the 1.70 patch came out (and DX10 support was added to the game) so i'm having trouble finding that post as well.


edit 2: closest i can find is other people talking about the same thing.

http://www.evga.com/forums/printable.asp?m=100674947
"It can appear that game using DX9 is using more memory in Vista because memory is allocated twice. You should run games in DX10. "


another edit: i think i may have found a misinterpretation where i first heard this. instead of being mirrored, it may be the following.

In DX9 applications, the CPU does its share of the work, passes it to system memory, and then it goes to video card memory.
In DX10 applications the CPU can directly access video card ram, bypassing the need for a temporary copy of the ram in system ram.

So instead of being a copy of however much is in use, it may just be on an 'as needed' basis (which can still chew up a lot of ram if you're using really high settings)
 
Last edited:
Joined
Feb 18, 2006
Messages
5,147 (0.75/day)
Location
AZ
System Name Thought I'd be done with this by now
Processor i7 11700k 8/16
Motherboard MSI Z590 Pro Wifi
Cooling Be Quiet Dark Rock Pro 4, 9x aigo AR12
Memory 32GB GSkill TridentZ Neo DDR4-4000 CL18-22-22-42
Video Card(s) MSI Ventus 2x Geforce RTX 3070
Storage 1TB MX300 M.2 OS + Games, + cloud mostly
Display(s) Samsung 40" 4k (TV)
Case Lian Li PC-011 Dynamic EVO Black
Audio Device(s) onboard HD -> Yamaha 5.1
Power Supply EVGA 850 GQ
Mouse Logitech wireless
Keyboard same
VR HMD nah
Software Windows 10
Benchmark Scores no one cares anymore lols
all I know is that I've always maintained 4 times the system ram as vga ram and it's always balanced out for me. which is why I won't be able to get a 1gb card until i upgrade my memory.

so back when I had 4mb gpu I had 16mb memory, 8-32, 16-64, 64-256, 128-512, 256-1024, and now 512-2048.

I couldn't tell you why but I've never strayed from it.
 

xenos

New Member
Joined
Jan 19, 2009
Messages
85 (0.01/day)
Processor Intel E2500K
Motherboard Gigabyte P67A-UD3-B3 R1.0 F4
Cooling Standard Intel HSF :O
Memory 2x4GB Corsair Vengeance 1600MHz CL9
Video Card(s) Gigabyte HD6870
Storage Crucial M4 240GB + 2x Samsung F3 500GB RAID0
Display(s) Apple 27" LED Cinema Display 2560x1440
Case Antec P82
Audio Device(s) Creative X-Fi
Power Supply Antec 500W
Software Windows 7 x64 SP1

Mussels

Freshwater Moderator
Joined
Oct 6, 2004
Messages
58,413 (7.96/day)
Location
Oystralia
System Name Rainbow Sparkles (Power efficient, <350W gaming load)
Processor Ryzen R7 5800x3D (Undervolted, 4.45GHz all core)
Motherboard Asus x570-F (BIOS Modded)
Cooling Alphacool Apex UV - Alphacool Eisblock XPX Aurora + EK Quantum ARGB 3090 w/ active backplate
Memory 2x32GB DDR4 3600 Corsair Vengeance RGB @3866 C18-22-22-22-42 TRFC704 (1.4V Hynix MJR - SoC 1.15V)
Video Card(s) Galax RTX 3090 SG 24GB: Underclocked to 1700Mhz 0.750v (375W down to 250W))
Storage 2TB WD SN850 NVME + 1TB Sasmsung 970 Pro NVME + 1TB Intel 6000P NVME USB 3.2
Display(s) Phillips 32 32M1N5800A (4k144), LG 32" (4K60) | Gigabyte G32QC (2k165) | Phillips 328m6fjrmb (2K144)
Case Fractal Design R6
Audio Device(s) Logitech G560 | Corsair Void pro RGB |Blue Yeti mic
Power Supply Fractal Ion+ 2 860W (Platinum) (This thing is God-tier. Silent and TINY)
Mouse Logitech G Pro wireless + Steelseries Prisma XL
Keyboard Razer Huntsman TE ( Sexy white keycaps)
VR HMD Oculus Rift S + Quest 2
Software Windows 11 pro x64 (Yes, it's genuinely a good OS) OpenRGB - ditch the branded bloatware!
Benchmark Scores Nyooom.

intel igent

New Member
Joined
Jun 5, 2005
Messages
4,640 (0.65/day)
Location
Toronto, Canada
System Name old school / new school
Processor 3.0e C0 @ 3.6 / e5200
Motherboard p4p800e-dlx / p5q-DLX
Cooling custom water see sig / air
Memory 2x1g oczPC4000EbPl / 2x2g ocz2rpr1066
Video Card(s) 3850AGP / 4890vaporX
Storage 36g raptor+120g wd / wd 1001fals 1tb
Display(s) BenQ / sharpAQUOS LC-37D64U
Case modded antec plusview / generic
Audio Device(s) audigy 2zs / ASUS Xonar HDAV1.3
Power Supply fan/cable modded powerstream 520 / OCZ 700mxsp
Software Xp pro SP2 / VISTA ultimate OEM
Can setting GFX aperture size in BIOS to a smaller figure reduce this effect? I have always set mine to 64 :confused:
 

Mussels

Freshwater Moderator
Joined
Oct 6, 2004
Messages
58,413 (7.96/day)
Location
Oystralia
System Name Rainbow Sparkles (Power efficient, <350W gaming load)
Processor Ryzen R7 5800x3D (Undervolted, 4.45GHz all core)
Motherboard Asus x570-F (BIOS Modded)
Cooling Alphacool Apex UV - Alphacool Eisblock XPX Aurora + EK Quantum ARGB 3090 w/ active backplate
Memory 2x32GB DDR4 3600 Corsair Vengeance RGB @3866 C18-22-22-22-42 TRFC704 (1.4V Hynix MJR - SoC 1.15V)
Video Card(s) Galax RTX 3090 SG 24GB: Underclocked to 1700Mhz 0.750v (375W down to 250W))
Storage 2TB WD SN850 NVME + 1TB Sasmsung 970 Pro NVME + 1TB Intel 6000P NVME USB 3.2
Display(s) Phillips 32 32M1N5800A (4k144), LG 32" (4K60) | Gigabyte G32QC (2k165) | Phillips 328m6fjrmb (2K144)
Case Fractal Design R6
Audio Device(s) Logitech G560 | Corsair Void pro RGB |Blue Yeti mic
Power Supply Fractal Ion+ 2 860W (Platinum) (This thing is God-tier. Silent and TINY)
Mouse Logitech G Pro wireless + Steelseries Prisma XL
Keyboard Razer Huntsman TE ( Sexy white keycaps)
VR HMD Oculus Rift S + Quest 2
Software Windows 11 pro x64 (Yes, it's genuinely a good OS) OpenRGB - ditch the branded bloatware!
Benchmark Scores Nyooom.
Can setting GFX aperture size in BIOS to a smaller figure reduce this effect? I have always set mine to 64 :confused:

i'm not entirely sure. Its hard to find any solid documentation on this stuff. I cant rule it out, but as far as i can remember i've only seen that setting on AGP boards.

http://www.techpowerup.com/articles/overclocking/vidcard/43

google found me an article from our king :) reading now to see if it applies

When using an AGP card the video memory on the graphics adapter is mapped into the 4 GB memory address space (above the region of the physical installed memory). Any accesses to this memory region are directly forwarded to the video memory, greatly increasing transfer rates. However in earlier days of video cards graphics memory was rather limited and ran out quickly (a single 32-bit 512x512 MIP-mapped texture consumes ~1.5 MB) so AGP added a mechanism to use the system's main memory as additional storage for graphics data such as textures

So no, the setting wont directly affect it. Its merely a "video card can use X system ram, when it runs out" - its the page file of AGP cards.
 
Last edited:

xenos

New Member
Joined
Jan 19, 2009
Messages
85 (0.01/day)
Processor Intel E2500K
Motherboard Gigabyte P67A-UD3-B3 R1.0 F4
Cooling Standard Intel HSF :O
Memory 2x4GB Corsair Vengeance 1600MHz CL9
Video Card(s) Gigabyte HD6870
Storage Crucial M4 240GB + 2x Samsung F3 500GB RAID0
Display(s) Apple 27" LED Cinema Display 2560x1440
Case Antec P82
Audio Device(s) Creative X-Fi
Power Supply Antec 500W
Software Windows 7 x64 SP1
well there we go xenos, it seems my original information was correct... this is probably the only time i've seen w1zzard proven wrong on something (and its not like he concretely disagreed here, so he was only half-wrong)

I'll be adding this to the OP once i have a quick read.

Yes although just going to Vista's WDDM 1.0 isn't enough, you need to go over to Windows 7 to get the full effect with WDDM 1.1 as this is a brand new feature :)
 

Mussels

Freshwater Moderator
Joined
Oct 6, 2004
Messages
58,413 (7.96/day)
Location
Oystralia
System Name Rainbow Sparkles (Power efficient, <350W gaming load)
Processor Ryzen R7 5800x3D (Undervolted, 4.45GHz all core)
Motherboard Asus x570-F (BIOS Modded)
Cooling Alphacool Apex UV - Alphacool Eisblock XPX Aurora + EK Quantum ARGB 3090 w/ active backplate
Memory 2x32GB DDR4 3600 Corsair Vengeance RGB @3866 C18-22-22-22-42 TRFC704 (1.4V Hynix MJR - SoC 1.15V)
Video Card(s) Galax RTX 3090 SG 24GB: Underclocked to 1700Mhz 0.750v (375W down to 250W))
Storage 2TB WD SN850 NVME + 1TB Sasmsung 970 Pro NVME + 1TB Intel 6000P NVME USB 3.2
Display(s) Phillips 32 32M1N5800A (4k144), LG 32" (4K60) | Gigabyte G32QC (2k165) | Phillips 328m6fjrmb (2K144)
Case Fractal Design R6
Audio Device(s) Logitech G560 | Corsair Void pro RGB |Blue Yeti mic
Power Supply Fractal Ion+ 2 860W (Platinum) (This thing is God-tier. Silent and TINY)
Mouse Logitech G Pro wireless + Steelseries Prisma XL
Keyboard Razer Huntsman TE ( Sexy white keycaps)
VR HMD Oculus Rift S + Quest 2
Software Windows 11 pro x64 (Yes, it's genuinely a good OS) OpenRGB - ditch the branded bloatware!
Benchmark Scores Nyooom.
Yes although just going to Vista's WDDM 1.0 isn't enough, you need to go over to Windows 7 to get the full effect with WDDM 1.1 as this is a brand new feature :)

WDDM1 and 1.1 are related to aero and the windows desktop only. What this is, is to save system memory from rendering aero alone - the pictures they have show ram savings from having heaps of windows open.

All it is, is that MS has ported aero to DX10 to save ram. (and yes, you need to use 7 to get it)
 
Joined
May 6, 2005
Messages
2,792 (0.39/day)
Location
Tre, Suomi Finland
System Name Ladpot ◦◦◦ Desktop
Processor R7 5800H ◦◦◦ i7 4770K, watercooled
Motherboard HP 88D2 ◦◦◦ Asus Z87-C2 Maximus VI Formula
Cooling Mixed gases ◦◦◦ Fuzion V1, MCW60/R2, DDC1/DDCT-01s top, PA120.3, EK200, D12SL-12, liq.metal TIM
Memory 2× 8GB DDR4-3200 ◦◦◦ 2× 8GB Crucial Ballistix Tactical LP DDR3-1600
Video Card(s) RTX 3070 ◦◦◦ heaps of dead GPUs in the garage
Storage Samsung 980 PRO 2TB ◦◦◦ Samsung 840Pro 256@178GB + 4× WD Red 2TB in RAID10 + LaCie Blade Runner 4TB
Display(s) HP ZR30w 30" 2560×1600 (WQXGA) H2-IPS
Case Lian Li PC-A16B
Audio Device(s) Onboard
Power Supply Corsair AX860i
Mouse Logitech MX Master 2S / Contour RollerMouse Red+
Keyboard Logitech Elite Keyboard from 2006 / Contour Balance Keyboard / Logitech diNovo Edge
Software W11 x64 ◦◦◦ W10 x64
Benchmark Scores It does boot up? I think.
Btw, my system is infact using 4088MB of the total 4096MB and I'm using XP 32bit...
OS sees 3327MB and the unmanaged 766MB is allocated as a RAM disk so only 8MB of the total 4096MB is wasted.


And the funny thing is; I have a HD4890 with 1024MB of GDDR5 and OS has >3GB usable, so the quote from OP is not correct.
Example configs:
32 bit
4GB system ram
1GB video card
3GB system ram usable, 2GB left in games once video card ram is duplicated.
 

Mussels

Freshwater Moderator
Joined
Oct 6, 2004
Messages
58,413 (7.96/day)
Location
Oystralia
System Name Rainbow Sparkles (Power efficient, <350W gaming load)
Processor Ryzen R7 5800x3D (Undervolted, 4.45GHz all core)
Motherboard Asus x570-F (BIOS Modded)
Cooling Alphacool Apex UV - Alphacool Eisblock XPX Aurora + EK Quantum ARGB 3090 w/ active backplate
Memory 2x32GB DDR4 3600 Corsair Vengeance RGB @3866 C18-22-22-22-42 TRFC704 (1.4V Hynix MJR - SoC 1.15V)
Video Card(s) Galax RTX 3090 SG 24GB: Underclocked to 1700Mhz 0.750v (375W down to 250W))
Storage 2TB WD SN850 NVME + 1TB Sasmsung 970 Pro NVME + 1TB Intel 6000P NVME USB 3.2
Display(s) Phillips 32 32M1N5800A (4k144), LG 32" (4K60) | Gigabyte G32QC (2k165) | Phillips 328m6fjrmb (2K144)
Case Fractal Design R6
Audio Device(s) Logitech G560 | Corsair Void pro RGB |Blue Yeti mic
Power Supply Fractal Ion+ 2 860W (Platinum) (This thing is God-tier. Silent and TINY)
Mouse Logitech G Pro wireless + Steelseries Prisma XL
Keyboard Razer Huntsman TE ( Sexy white keycaps)
VR HMD Oculus Rift S + Quest 2
Software Windows 11 pro x64 (Yes, it's genuinely a good OS) OpenRGB - ditch the branded bloatware!
Benchmark Scores Nyooom.
Btw, my system is infact using 4088MB of the total 4096MB and I'm using XP 32bit...
OS sees 3327MB and the unmanaged 766MB is allocated as a RAM disk so only 8MB of the total 4096MB is wasted.

the OS can see it, but it still cant use it. MS decided to make the OS show how much is installed as opposed to available in the latest service packs... i guess people were trying to sue over being sold a 4GB machine with "only" 3-3.5GB 'showing'
 

Emeth

New Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2009
Messages
1 (0.00/day)
MS "Engineering Windows 7" blog excerpt

Hi folks:

I'm new here, but I found this interesting, and wanted to add this reference just in case it helps. Can anyone comment on how this might affect video stability?


http://blogs.msdn.com/e7/

"Desktop Graphics - Reduced Memory Footprint

Another area which affects system responsiveness is memory usage. Simply put, increased system memory (RAM) usage leads to an increased paging activity which directly leads to reduced system responsiveness. Thus, for the best responsiveness, all applications, processes and OS components need to use as little system memory as possible.

In Windows Vista, the amount of memory required to run multiple windows scales linearly with the number of windows opened on the system. This results in more memory pressure when there are more windows or if the monitors have higher resolution. It gets worse if you have more than one monitor. As part of investigating various means to improve system responsiveness, we saw a great opportunity in reducing the usage of system memory by DWM. In Windows Vista, every GDI application window accounts for two memory allocations which hold identical content – one in video memory and one in system memory. DWM is responsible for composition of the desktop through the graphics hardware. Hence, it requires a copy of the same allocation in video memory, which is easily accessible by the graphics hardware. The duplicate copy present in system memory is required because GDI is being rendered utilizing the CPU completely in the operating system without any assistance or “acceleration” by the graphics hardware. As the CPU performs all the tasks for rendering GDI applications, it requires an easily accessible cacheable copy of memory.
Existing memory allocations.



Figure 5. Existing memory allocations.

Windows 7 saves one copy of the memory allocation per application window by getting rid of the system memory copy entirely. Thus, for a GDI application window visible on the desktop, the memory consumed is cut in half."
 
Joined
May 15, 2008
Messages
68 (0.01/day)
Location
Calumet City,IL 60409
System Name Lil Finger, 1st intel build
Processor B93 x4 AMD, 4770K INTEL
Motherboard biostar 790GX 128M ,Gigabyte Z87X-OC
Cooling CM Hyper 212 EVO, Stock cooling
Memory 8 gb Gskill pc8500 1066 4x2, 16GB Gskill 2133mkz 4x4GB
Video Card(s) XFX HD6870 1gb, Gigabyte RD R9 270X
Storage samsung 120gb ssd,seagate750, 1TB WD Black
Display(s) Toshiba 32" TV, Samsung Syncmaster 943BSW
Case NZXT beta evo, Raven RV03
Audio Device(s) on board,on board
Power Supply TX Corsairs 750 Watt, Seasonic 860 Watt Platinum
Mouse Logitech G 502
VR HMD Acer WMR,HP WMR,Oculus Quest
Software W7x64, W7 Ultimate X64
Thanks for the info it helps me to kind of understand what was happening to my system last may in my old build. I just could not get my 3870 to work but then again I had a 64bit OS installed
 

CDdude55

Crazy 4 TPU!!!
Joined
Jul 12, 2007
Messages
8,178 (1.29/day)
Location
Virginia
System Name CDdude's Rig!
Processor AMD Athlon II X4 620
Motherboard Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD3
Cooling Corsair H70
Memory 8GB Corsair Vengence @1600mhz
Video Card(s) XFX HD 6970 2GB
Storage OCZ Agility 3 60GB SSD/WD Velociraptor 300GB
Display(s) ASUS VH232H 23" 1920x1080
Case Cooler Master CM690 (w/ side window)
Audio Device(s) Onboard (It sounds fine)
Power Supply Corsair 850TX
Software Windows 7 Home Premium 64bit SP1
Bashing us 32-biters i see.

Going to be using 4GB RAM(windows sees 2.75 tho) and a 896MB card, games should run fine.:)
 

Mussels

Freshwater Moderator
Joined
Oct 6, 2004
Messages
58,413 (7.96/day)
Location
Oystralia
System Name Rainbow Sparkles (Power efficient, <350W gaming load)
Processor Ryzen R7 5800x3D (Undervolted, 4.45GHz all core)
Motherboard Asus x570-F (BIOS Modded)
Cooling Alphacool Apex UV - Alphacool Eisblock XPX Aurora + EK Quantum ARGB 3090 w/ active backplate
Memory 2x32GB DDR4 3600 Corsair Vengeance RGB @3866 C18-22-22-22-42 TRFC704 (1.4V Hynix MJR - SoC 1.15V)
Video Card(s) Galax RTX 3090 SG 24GB: Underclocked to 1700Mhz 0.750v (375W down to 250W))
Storage 2TB WD SN850 NVME + 1TB Sasmsung 970 Pro NVME + 1TB Intel 6000P NVME USB 3.2
Display(s) Phillips 32 32M1N5800A (4k144), LG 32" (4K60) | Gigabyte G32QC (2k165) | Phillips 328m6fjrmb (2K144)
Case Fractal Design R6
Audio Device(s) Logitech G560 | Corsair Void pro RGB |Blue Yeti mic
Power Supply Fractal Ion+ 2 860W (Platinum) (This thing is God-tier. Silent and TINY)
Mouse Logitech G Pro wireless + Steelseries Prisma XL
Keyboard Razer Huntsman TE ( Sexy white keycaps)
VR HMD Oculus Rift S + Quest 2
Software Windows 11 pro x64 (Yes, it's genuinely a good OS) OpenRGB - ditch the branded bloatware!
Benchmark Scores Nyooom.
Hi folks:

I'm new here, but I found this interesting, and wanted to add this reference just in case it helps. Can anyone comment on how this might affect video stability?


http://blogs.msdn.com/e7/

"Desktop Graphics - Reduced Memory Footprint

Another area which affects system responsiveness is memory usage. Simply put, increased system memory (RAM) usage leads to an increased paging activity which directly leads to reduced system responsiveness. Thus, for the best responsiveness, all applications, processes and OS components need to use as little system memory as possible.

In Windows Vista, the amount of memory required to run multiple windows scales linearly with the number of windows opened on the system. This results in more memory pressure when there are more windows or if the monitors have higher resolution. It gets worse if you have more than one monitor. As part of investigating various means to improve system responsiveness, we saw a great opportunity in reducing the usage of system memory by DWM. In Windows Vista, every GDI application window accounts for two memory allocations which hold identical content – one in video memory and one in system memory. DWM is responsible for composition of the desktop through the graphics hardware. Hence, it requires a copy of the same allocation in video memory, which is easily accessible by the graphics hardware. The duplicate copy present in system memory is required because GDI is being rendered utilizing the CPU completely in the operating system without any assistance or “acceleration” by the graphics hardware. As the CPU performs all the tasks for rendering GDI applications, it requires an easily accessible cacheable copy of memory.
Existing memory allocations.



Figure 5. Existing memory allocations.

Windows 7 saves one copy of the memory allocation per application window by getting rid of the system memory copy entirely. Thus, for a GDI application window visible on the desktop, the memory consumed is cut in half."

Thanks for the info it helps me to kind of understand what was happening to my system last may in my old build. I just could not get my 3870 to work but then again I had a 64bit OS installed

I added this to the first post a week or two ago actually. The drop in memory use is because windows 7 moved to WDDM 1.1, which is in fact directX 10 based. Running DX10 removes the memory copy in DX9, which means if you're on onboard video wndows 7 uses half as much memory for the GUI as windows vista.



Bashing us 32-biters i see.

Going to be using 4GB RAM(windows sees 2.75 tho) and a 896MB card, games should run fine.:)

sure they will. with a maximum of 1152MB of available ram per game. (2048MB per 32 bit app, minus video card ram)
 
Joined
Jul 19, 2009
Messages
228 (0.04/day)
System Name Adult Entertainment
Processor i7 2600K 4.4Ghz
Motherboard ASUS P8Z77-I Deluxe
Cooling CM Hyper 212 Evo with two Noctua 12cm fans
Memory 8GB (2x4GB) Corsair Vengeance LP 1600
Video Card(s) EVGA Geforce GTX 690
Storage two 3TB hard drives
Display(s) 27" Asus
Case Bitfenix Prodigy
Audio Device(s) Motherboard Soundcard FTW!
Power Supply Seasonic X850
Software Windows 10 64bit | Linux Mint | Windows XP 32bit
Benchmark Scores Score: OMFGWTFBBQSPEED!
wow! Very informative post.

So my rig is:
C2D E6600 @3.4ghz
4gb corsair dominators
2 GF 8800GTS SLI (640mb each)
I'm currently running dual boot, Win7 RC 32bit and WinXP 32-bit.

Win7 reports 2.5gb usable. So are you saying that the actually usage of ram for games is less then 2.5gb? Should I just use Windows 7 64bit?

I played around with 7 64-bit, and the games seem to run slower than when running 7 32-bit. For example, TF2 felt slower on 64-bit, COD5 felt slower on 64bit.

You said: "This shows another side to this - 32 bit applications can only have 2GB total for the entire application, regardless of the amount of available ram and system-wide address space. so even if you have 4GB of ram and 3.5GB showing as available, if you've got a 1GB video card in a 32 bit OS you're in for a world of hurt."

Does that mean, depending on the game, more video card memory will hurt you more than help? Using the same hypothetical, what if you have a 2gb card (like the new 285gtx), does that actually make performance worse then? I was thinking of buying a 285gtx 2gb to replace my two 8800gts.

Does this also mean that regardless of how much system ram you have on a 64 bit OS, 32-bit apps will only be limited to 2gb of vitrual memory thingy and therefore all that extra amount of ram you have is useless for that 1 particular 32-bit app? So the only plus side to running 32-bit apps (and 95% of games are still 32-bit unfortunately) on a 64-bit OS is the you can run 5 32-bit games at one time with minimal drag?

Also, I think the 8800 Geforces are Dx9 cards. So even if you are running Vista or 7, are you still confine to the memory mirroring problem?


So much memory chatter, this is confusing to me sometimes! :banghead:

I aplogize if these are noob questions.
 
Last edited:

Mussels

Freshwater Moderator
Joined
Oct 6, 2004
Messages
58,413 (7.96/day)
Location
Oystralia
System Name Rainbow Sparkles (Power efficient, <350W gaming load)
Processor Ryzen R7 5800x3D (Undervolted, 4.45GHz all core)
Motherboard Asus x570-F (BIOS Modded)
Cooling Alphacool Apex UV - Alphacool Eisblock XPX Aurora + EK Quantum ARGB 3090 w/ active backplate
Memory 2x32GB DDR4 3600 Corsair Vengeance RGB @3866 C18-22-22-22-42 TRFC704 (1.4V Hynix MJR - SoC 1.15V)
Video Card(s) Galax RTX 3090 SG 24GB: Underclocked to 1700Mhz 0.750v (375W down to 250W))
Storage 2TB WD SN850 NVME + 1TB Sasmsung 970 Pro NVME + 1TB Intel 6000P NVME USB 3.2
Display(s) Phillips 32 32M1N5800A (4k144), LG 32" (4K60) | Gigabyte G32QC (2k165) | Phillips 328m6fjrmb (2K144)
Case Fractal Design R6
Audio Device(s) Logitech G560 | Corsair Void pro RGB |Blue Yeti mic
Power Supply Fractal Ion+ 2 860W (Platinum) (This thing is God-tier. Silent and TINY)
Mouse Logitech G Pro wireless + Steelseries Prisma XL
Keyboard Razer Huntsman TE ( Sexy white keycaps)
VR HMD Oculus Rift S + Quest 2
Software Windows 11 pro x64 (Yes, it's genuinely a good OS) OpenRGB - ditch the branded bloatware!
Benchmark Scores Nyooom.
under a 32 bit OS, each application can only use 2GB maximum.

Thats address space - and your video cards ram uses that. DX9 applications also duplicate into system memory - so with a 640MB card (only one counts, memory doesnt add in SLI) you have 640MB as a maximum address spaced used, as well as a duplication of that memory.

WORST case, with every video setting cranked to the max using all 640MB of video ram - you'd have about 800MB left over for your game. I'd expect it to be more around the 1-1.2GB mark.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top