Sapphire Radeon HD 5870 and HD 5850 Smile for the Camera

[Zubasa]

Well, comparing my reference Sapphire 4870 to these, I have to say the 5k series looks much better...

Now where are the benchmarks!!!!

I am still worry about the 5870 might get bottlenecked pretty hard by the bandwidth,
since it has basically twice the power of a 4870 but the bandwidth does not seems to grow nearly as much.

 

[btarunr]

I don't think it is any more special than previous GPUs that it needs 100Gb/s+ memory bandwidth to be functional. Again, I'm just wondering if it really is because the memory bandwidth is needed, or because there are still problems with 40nm.

Nobody is talking about functionality, it's about being competitive. Radeon HD 4890 needed that extra bit of memory bandwidth, so if HD 5850 is touted to be twice as fast as a Radeon HD 4850, it definitely needs that bandwidth. Once again, it does not matter if HD 5850 is produced out of "defective" dies, because the resulting product is not defective. So no point in this "40 nm is faulty" rhetoric. Disabling components to carve out SKUs is not an indication of foundry-related problems.

 

[kylzer]

^_^ im sure you've said that like 3 times now lol

Damn only 4-5days to go now and i can buy my new card and get rid of this 8800GS

 

[btarunr]

^_^ im sure you've said that like 3 times now lol

Yeah, because the other person repeated the same thing too.

 

[Imsochobo]

Not that i would buy sapphire ever again,that ahole GG is such a tit it as put me off sapphire permanently.

there are 11 stickers from sapphire on my keyboard since 2 years when its 1st of january.
None are defective, or had issues.

Not that other cards have had issues, had one RMA of a production fault from p0werc0lor with a limited x800 edition.

 

[Zubasa]

I just can't wait to get rid of he sucker I have now, it don't have both the bandwidth and memory capacity to let mey game at full HD....
Even overclocking doesn't help much, the GDDR3 just won't clock much without crashing.
There is simply not enough bandwidth with the 4850, as the performance increase much more by OCing the memory than the GPU.

On top of this, I just can't stop myself from thinking that ATi stuck the worst bined chips possible on the first batch of 4850s.
There is no other GPU that I have clock this badly.
No way I am buying the first batches of 5850s unless they are dirt cheap and OC like nobody's business.
I paid $1700 HK for this sucker, thats $213 US and now it is barely stable a its factory OC.

 

[Ra97oR]

Looks fine.

 

[Easo]

Eh lol, i need money right now

 

[1Kurgan1]

Awesome, cant wait till they hit the market and I finally have the money for one.

 

[lemonadesoda]

I'm getting bored of these manga girl fighters on the GPUs. It was OK way back when, but now the imagery is old, stale and tired.

If they want to stick with this manga stuff, then they should have more chicks on there... the hotter the card (more powerful), the more chicks, and for OC cards, they should wear less and less. Obviously the ultimate extreme versions of the card would then be XXX rated... available only to over 18, and consequently making them even more desirable.

Of course, the über fastest, wild, overclockerized super dooper edition would have a dude "benchmarking" a bevvy of near naked pool chick roller girls.

Naturally, the default windows jingle would be replaced by the drivers with some snazzy jazzed up pimp anthem.

 

[erocker]

If they want to stick with this manga stuff, then they should have more chicks on there... the hotter the card (more powerful), the more chicks, and for OC cards, they should wear less and less. Obviously the ultimate extreme versions of the card would then be XXX rated... only making them even more desirable.

Of course, the über fastest, wild, overclockerized super dooper edition would have a dude benchmarking a bevvy of near naked pool chick roller girls.

Naturally, the default windows jingle would be replaced by the drivers with some snazzy jazzed up pimp anthem.

Your logic is absolutely flawless.

 

[MoonPig]

I dont get the use of lasses on these... If they were REAL lasses, then ok... but silly CGI ones just look daft.

And i second the use of less and less clothes... that alone would make me want the XXX version. Pity a waterblock doesn't have the same image

 

[newtekie1]

Nobody is talking about functionality, it's about being competitive. Radeon HD 4890 needed that extra bit of memory bandwidth, so if HD 5850 is touted to be twice as fast as a Radeon HD 4850, it definitely needs that bandwidth. Once again, it does not matter if HD 5850 is produced out of "defective" dies, because the resulting product is not defective. So no point in this "40 nm is faulty" rhetoric. Disabling components to carve out SKUs is not an indication of foundry-related problems.

No it doesn't, there have been plenty of cards that were twice as fast that didn't need extra memory bandwidth. I mean the HD4850 was twice as fast as the HD3850, and both used GDDR3. I'm not saying the bandwidth would have made no difference, I'm just saying, I believe, it would have crippled it as much as the cut down die does.

And your take on the defective dies, I agree with. It doesn't matter because the end product is not defective. That is not my point, and has nothing to do with what I am saying. I'm wondering if part of the decision to use the cut down dies was because of a high defective rate, indicating that there is still an issue with 40nm. I believe it does indicate that. That by itself is not enough to come to that conclusion, but when you couple it with the fact that we already know 40nm has problems, and it really isn't a hard conclusion to draw. When nVidia did it with G80, G92, and GT200 we didn't know that 65nm and 55nm was having issues, so we couldn't assume that is why they did it. On top of that, nVidia has used this practice for generations, while ATi has not. So ATi suddenly using it, coupled with the already known issues with 40nm, it what makes me wonder. This issue is also not a negative thing on ATi, it isn't a negative at all, I'm just curious. I don't want to see these things released and a promised price, but low supplies causing the prices to be jacked up, or even worse a repeat of the HD4770 with essentially a paper launch.

 

[TheMailMan78]

I'm getting bored of these manga girl fighters on the GPUs. It was OK way back when, but now the imagery is old, stale and tired.

If they want to stick with this manga stuff, then they should have more chicks on there... the hotter the card (more powerful), the more chicks, and for OC cards, they should wear less and less. Obviously the ultimate extreme versions of the card would then be XXX rated... available only to over 18, and consequently making them even more desirable.

Of course, the über fastest, wild, overclockerized super dooper edition would have a dude "benchmarking" a bevvy of near naked pool chick roller girls.

Naturally, the default windows jingle would be replaced by the drivers with some snazzy jazzed up pimp anthem.

Hawking has nothing on you man. You're the F#$KING master of all that is awesome!

 

[FreedomEclipse]

5870 for me

 

[1Kurgan1]

And your take on the defective dies, I agree with. It doesn't matter because the end product is not defective. That is not my point, and has nothing to do with what I am saying. I'm wondering if part of the decision to use the cut down dies was because of a high defective rate, indicating that there is still an issue with 40nm. I believe it does indicate that. That by itself is not enough to come to that conclusion, but when you couple it with the fact that we already know 40nm has problems, and it really isn't a hard conclusion to draw. When nVidia did it with G80, G92, and GT200 we didn't know that 65nm and 55nm was having issues, so we couldn't assume that is why they did it. On top of that, nVidia has used this practice for generations, while ATi has not. So ATi suddenly using it, coupled with the already known issues with 40nm, it what makes me wonder. This issue is also not a negative thing on ATi, it isn't a negative at all, I'm just curious. I don't want to see these things released and a promised price, but low supplies causing the prices to be jacked up, or even worse a repeat of the HD4770 with essentially a paper launch.

ATI hasn't? I can remember back to the differences of the x1950pro vs x1950 XT. Either way, theres always going to be "defective" products with any manufacturing process. They cut down the 3870 to a 3850, they cut down the 4870 to a 4850 then a 4830. So who's to assume that the 5870 to 5850 scenario is any different? And even if it is, what does it matter as the 5850 will most likely move more products at launch anyways.

 

[A Cheese Danish]

That is one sweet card
Can't wait to hold it in my hands and have it housed in my rig

 

[newtekie1]

ATI hasn't? I can remember back to the differences of the x1950pro vs x1950 XT. Either way, theres always going to be "defective" products with any manufacturing process. They cut down the 3870 to a 3850, they cut down the 4870 to a 4850 then a 4830. So who's to assume that the 5870 to 5850 scenario is any different? And even if it is, what does it matter as the 5850 will most likely move more products at launch anyways.

*sigh* You obviously aren't getting it.

1.) The x1950Pro used a completely different core than the x1950XT. It used RV570, the x1950XT used RV580. The x1900GT used a cut down core from the x1900XT, however the x1900GT didn't come out until near the end of the x1900 product cycle.
2.) I know there will always be defective cores...not products...cores. I'm not saying anything about the final products.
3.) They did not cut down the HD3870 core to make an HD3850. They did not cur down the HD4870 core to make an HD4850. They did cut down the HD4870 core to make the HD4830, however.
4.) The difference is because ATi has traditionally has not launched a product line with defective cut down cores. They add the SKUs using the defective cut down cores later down the road.

 

[TheMailMan78]

I feel bad for newtekie1. He's not bashing ATI. He's wondering why they changed strategy so much and how that change will effect supply and price. ATI could make a 2nm chip with a 12,000Mhz GPU and sell it for $3.00 but if the yields are bad demand will be higher than supply thus jacking up its price.

Sure the card retails for 3 bucks but if ATI can only produce a dozen of them how much do you think they will REALLY cost. Basically newtekie1 is talking supply and demand. Nothing more.

@newtekie1. You have to keep things simple man. You talk to damn much about something simple it makes it complicated.

 

[1Kurgan1]

Can't wait to hold it in my hands and have it housed in my rig

Your talking about a videocard here right?

 

[TheMailMan78]

Your talking about a videocard here right?

If not his dog better watch out!

 

[1Kurgan1]

3.) They did not cut down the HD3870 core to make an HD3850. They did not cur down the HD4870 core to make an HD4850. They did cut down the HD4870 core to make the HD4830, however.
4.) The difference is because ATi has traditionally has not launched a product line with defective cut down cores. They add the SKUs using the defective cut down cores later down the road.

I'm getting it, but what I'm saying is your looking far too much into this, it doesn't matter either way. So why bring it up in every single post when the cards will be released and be awesome.

Also the 4850 is a cut down 4870, it's running GDDR3 instead, but the GPU isn't clocked as high and it has a weaker power setup on it, which would make me think that 4870's would be a higher binned chip, and if a chip didn't pass it moved down to a 4850, and if the chip didn't pass there it moved down to a 4830. That or if a chip failed as a 4870, but didn't fail on clocks, and failed on SPU's then it skipped 4850 and went right to the 4830.

And mentioning that, look how well 4830's OC for the most part, I don't even know if they are really binned down since their was good demand for them. So who's to say the 5850 is really a binned down product? It might be off the bat, but if it sells well I'm betting 5870 GPU's that are higher binned will get cut down and used.

Either way, your looking way to much into this, defective products or not ATI is obviously going to make profit on this and is happy with the turnover rate enough to bring it to the market now, so who cares.

 

[tkpenalty]

Newtekie's cause for concern is pretty valid imho. Considering how Nvidia lately has been only putting out PR spin instead of actually talking about their GT300, its likely that what Charlie said about the 3% yield rates of the GT300 being true-this means a problem for AMD as well who probably share the same process that nvidia is using.

Even though places like Charlie's most of the time is bullshit, how did he come up with a figure of 3% then? And why is nvidia just doing PR spin with investor advisories lately?

Btw with the 4xxx series, I believe its not binning but just automated selection where they just cast off the dies on the edges of a wafer for the lower end derivatives, which statistically speaking suck.

 

[btarunr]

No it doesn't, there have been plenty of cards that were twice as fast that didn't need extra memory bandwidth. I mean the HD4850 was twice as fast as the HD3850, and both used GDDR3. I'm not saying the bandwidth would have made no difference, I'm just saying, I believe, it would have crippled it as much as the cut down die does.

HD 4890 comes with 120+ GB/s memory bandwidth, should something faster than that also have higher bandwidth? And it was able to harvest RV770/RV790 ASICs using cut-down configurations and also let them be priced low. So I don't see how that part isn't looking likely.

 

[TheMailMan78]

I'm getting it, but what I'm saying is your looking far too much into this, it doesn't matter either way. So why bring it up in every single post when the cards will be released and be awesome.

Also the 4850 is a cut down 4870, it's running GDDR3 instead, but the GPU isn't clocked as high and it has a weaker power setup on it, which would make me think that 4870's would be a higher binned chip, and if a chip didn't pass it moved down to a 4850, and if the chip didn't pass there it moved down to a 4830. That or if a chip failed as a 4870, but didn't fail on clocks, and failed on SPU's then it skipped 4850 and went right to the 4830.

And mentioning that, look how well 4830's OC for the most part, I don't even know if they are really binned down since their was good demand for them. So who's to say the 5850 is really a binned down product? It might be off the bat, but if it sells well I'm betting 5870 GPU's that are higher binned will get cut down and used.

Either way, your looking way to much into this, defective products or not ATI is obviously going to make profit on this and is happy with the turnover rate enough to bring it to the market now, so who cares.

He didn't say it would have problems selling. From what I read hes been pretty positive about it by newtekie1 standards. He was just stating his curiosity about the manufacturing strategy and how it will effect all of us down the road. Not that ATI is doing anything wrong, cheap, or other wise bad. Just WHY the sudden change. Ever heard the term if its too good to be true then it probably is?

Also I think he's been repeating himself as a defense mechanism. Some people on this forum love to attack before they try and understand what someone is saying. Hence his repetitiveness. Also keep in mind we all are not the best at getting our point across and lets face it, most of us are social misfits.

Anyway I'm done defending newtekie1. If yall don't get it now then you need to ride the short bus to school.