NVIDIA GeForce 4XX Series Discussion

[Animalpak]

Man i like 5870 performance but i cant buy ATi :shadedshu


I always bought nvidia and have always been satisfied, Win7 comes out next Thursday if nvidia will not show something of this new series of GPUs will make me very angry



Why be so excited now for the ATi 5870's when after Christmas ( i hope not too late ) these ATI cards series will be burned by the new GT300 Nvidia graphics cards ??

( in terms of performance off course )

 

[dir_d]

Man i like 5870 performance but i cant buy ATi :shadedshu


I always bought nvidia and have always been satisfied, Win7 comes out next Thursday if nvidia will not show something of this new series of GPUs will make me very angry



Why be so excited now for the ATi 5870's when after Christmas ( i hope not too late ) these ATI cards series will be burned by the new GT300 Nvidia graphics cards ??

( in terms of performance off course )

Price/Performance Ratio..Look at the proposed die size for NVidia they cant compete with ATI performance per dollar if ATI lowers the prices. Thats why people are excited about the 5870s. Honestly i cant wait till I see Nvidias answer so i can pick up another 5870.

 

[erocker]

Man i like 5870 performance but i cant buy ATi :shadedshu


I always bought nvidia and have always been satisfied, Win7 comes out next Thursday if nvidia will not show something of this new series of GPUs will make me very angry



Why be so excited now for the ATi 5870's when after Christmas ( i hope not too late ) these ATI cards series will be burned by the new GT300 Nvidia graphics cards ??

( in terms of performance off course )

Nvidia doesn't have a new series of GPU to show you at the moment. No doubt the GT300 will be faster than the 5870, however Nvidia is giving ATi plenty of time to refine their current lineup. I have no doubts that a 5890 will be released to directly compete with Nvidia's high end single GPU card. There will probablly be a "soft launch" for GT300 before Christmas, but getting your hands on one will not be easy. You know you could always try an ATi card, you'll most likely be satisfied. Unless of course you live in a paradigm that Nvidia is truly better for you, then just do what makes you happy. GT300 will be expensive, and I don't see how it can do well price/performance wise. I have no reason to wait untill after Christmas to buy a video card that costs way too much and way too few games/applications that would actually need that power to make such a purchase remotely worth the price.

 

[KainXS]

we would be lucky if the GTX380 costed 500 bucks on launch lol

 

[qubit]

Nvidia doesn't have a new series of GPU to show you at the moment. No doubt the GT300 will be faster than the 5870, however Nvidia is giving ATi plenty of time to refine their current lineup. I have no doubts that a 5890 will be released to directly compete with Nvidia's high end single GPU card. There will probablly be a "soft launch" for GT300 before Christmas, but getting your hands on one will not be easy. You know you could always try an ATi card, you'll most likely be satisfied. Unless of course you live in a paradigm that Nvidia is truly better for you, then just do what makes you happy. GT300 will be expensive, and I don't see how it can do well price/performance wise. I have no reason to wait untill after Christmas to buy a video card that costs way too much and way too few games/applications that would actually need that power to make such a purchase remotely worth the price.

Hmmm, ya know, my finances have gotten better lately. If the GT300 based card has awesome reviews and is only available in limited quantities at a reassuringly expensive price, I might just treat myself to one. I did that with the 3D Vision Samsung 2233RZ monitor & glasses bundle and didn't regret it. £400 was very reassuringly expensive, but the 3D it delivers is fantastic! Plus, I needed to replace my ageing and fading CRT, of course...

So, if I do get that GT300, ya know what I'm gonna do: that's right, bench it compared to my current cards and put up a user review in this forum.

 

[GC_PaNzerFIN]

So, if I do get that GT300, ya know what I'm gonna do: that's right, bench it compared to my current cards and put up a user review in this forum.

Second that. I am getting it ASAP if the reviews are say its good performer.

 

[Benetanegia]

Nvidia doesn't have a new series of GPU to show you at the moment. No doubt the GT300 will be faster than the 5870, however Nvidia is giving ATi plenty of time to refine their current lineup. I have no doubts that a 5890 will be released to directly compete with Nvidia's high end single GPU card. There will probablly be a "soft launch" for GT300 before Christmas, but getting your hands on one will not be easy. You know you could always try an ATi card, you'll most likely be satisfied. Unless of course you live in a paradigm that Nvidia is truly better for you, then just do what makes you happy. GT300 will be expensive, and I don't see how it can do well price/performance wise. I have no reason to wait untill after Christmas to buy a video card that costs way too much and way too few games/applications that would actually need that power to make such a purchase remotely worth the price.

IMO we should not take as granted GT3xx cards will be expensive, beyond the perf/price of existing market I mean. We don't know at which price they will release the GT300 cards. In a Fermi article in Anand they quoted a Nvidia rep as saying something like "I can't comment, but you will be surprised", when they asked about price. A rep is a rep, but it may hold some truth. After all, the chip is smaller than GT200, the PCB simpler and since the chip is much more scalable this time, they might not need to spend more on R&D for lower end cards, saving them a lot of money. Then they have a lot of Tesla customers waiting that chips already, so it might be easier for them to sell Fermi based GPUs a lot lower than GT200 cards.

But I agrre there's no point in waiting too much if you really need a new card, you will always be waiting for a better card otherwise. For me waiting after Christmas is the best though, because here, stores always buy much more stock than what they usually sell (yeah they are way too optimistic, always) and in January there's always always always fantastic low prices. Before Christmas they are usually inflated too.

 

[Bo_Fox]

I might just end up getting a GT300 for my own rig and a 5890 for my wife's rig right next to my own.

The 5870 just doesnt cut it with only 23% greater memory bandwidth than a 4890. It performs so much worse than a dual-4890 in Crossfire, even if the RV870XT chip is supposed to be exactly 2x of 4890 in all of specs (save the memory bandwidth).

 

[phanbuey]

I might just end up getting a GT300 for my own rig and a 5890 for my wife's rig right next to my own.

The 5870 just doesnt cut it with only 23% greater memory bandwidth than a 4890. It performs so much worse than a dual-4890 in Crossfire, even if the RV870XT chip is supposed to be exactly 2x of 4890 in all of specs (save the memory bandwidth).

I think you will find the same will happen with the GT 300 - even though the specs have more than doubled over the gtx 285, that it will perform about the same as dual 285's in cfx.

I hate to burst the "nV has a monster" bubble... but everyone thought that about the gt200 - and while great cards, monsters they were not ( at least not in respect to the 48xx series). Im anxious to see what they have in stock... something tells me they're bluffing (maybe it was the obviously fake dummy card, whose PCB was that of another card cut to fit the cooler).

 

[Binge]

I think you will find the same will happen with the GT 300 - even though the specs have more than doubled over the gtx 285, that it will perform about the same as dual 285's in cfx.

I hate to burst the "nV has a monster" bubble... but everyone thought that about the gt200 - and while great cards, monsters they were not ( at least not in respect to the 48xx series). Im anxious to see what they have in stock... something tells me they're bluffing (maybe it was the obviously fake dummy card, whose PCB was that of another card cut to fit the cooler).

I have to cover the two points you brought up which are:

1) The GF100 will be exactly 2x the 285 even in performance.

I highly doubt this. Memory bandwidth, and core architecture are completely different. It may perform worse until the new CUDA cores have proper drivers.

2) The GT200 was not a monster compared to the 4XXX series.

Then why did I sell my 4870x2 immediately after having owned a GTX260? Do you remember the previous vantage record held with 2x295s which had core clocks over 1GHz which broke 40K in vantage without physX assistance? I accept your opinion, but the 4XXX series was nothing except a late bloomer and their current architecture did not learn from previous mistakes despite being a significant improvement.

The GF100 may end up sucking. It's doubtful, but ATI, nV, and Intel are all going different routes from 2010-2011. Whichever one starts making the standards for the rest of the industry will be the leader in innovation and will have the next few steps of their reign planned in advance. Expect to see one of these video card producers set a standard. That's what I'm truely anxious about.

 

[qubit]

Then why did I sell my 4870x2 immediately after having owned a GTX260?

I know what you mean. It does seem like the game developer relations pays off quite well in making the cards run more smoothly. In particular, a while back, I had a 512MB HD 4870 which was quite a good card. A little later I saw an 8800 GTX b-grade going for silly money, so I bought it.

Guess which card ran Fallout 3 better? Yep, the GTX. I couldn't believe it. The 4870 is supposed to blow it away on performance, yet FPS wasn't much faster and it had far fewer hitches (those annoying little pauses) than the 4870. I even lowered the resolution to eliminate the possibility of the greater memory size making a difference here and the difference remained.

It wasn't long after that I eBay'd the 4870 and got me a GTX 285. Never looked back.

The one thing I'll say though, is that ATI seem to do a better job of supporting their older products than nvidia. More than once I've found that older nV cards work badly with newer drivers.

I'm seeing this right now with my 6800 Ultra 256MB that I wanted to bench in Win7 RTM 64-bit as part of a comparative test I'll be posting on TPU. It's no go. This shitty driver (191.07) barely works. On the desktop, resizing windows is very stuttery and the desktop overall tends to pause and stick for no reason, especially when moving a window around. Also, it doesn't always draw a full window and you have to move the mouse around the screen or maximise a window to see everything. None of my games run at all - it locks up completely (it's escapable, though). Even the fan speed stays rather high.

I've tried all the usual things, such as reinstalling, uninstalling etc, but nothing helps. The card isn't faulty or overclocked, either. Putting in a later nV card or an ATI solves the problem completely.

This was a top-end card in its day, that went for a lot of money, so there's no excuse for it and is a good example of corporate disrespect for their customers. Muppets.

 

[Bo_Fox]

I think you will find the same will happen with the GT 300 - even though the specs have more than doubled over the gtx 285, that it will perform about the same as dual 285's in cfx.

I hate to burst the "nV has a monster" bubble... but everyone thought that about the gt200 - and while great cards, monsters they were not ( at least not in respect to the 48xx series). Im anxious to see what they have in stock... something tells me they're bluffing (maybe it was the obviously fake dummy card, whose PCB was that of another card cut to fit the cooler).

Yeah, but the GT300 should have around 50% more bandwidth than a GTX285, which should eliminate most of the bottleneck for the GT300 core. Given that the 5870 has only 23% more bandwidth than a 4890, it's the only logical explanation for much lower performance than 2x 4890's in Xfire in many games.

I have to cover the two points you brought up which are:

1) The GF100 will be exactly 2x the 285 even in performance.

I highly doubt this. Memory bandwidth, and core architecture are completely different. It may perform worse until the new CUDA cores have proper drivers.

2) The GT200 was not a monster compared to the 4XXX series.

Then why did I sell my 4870x2 immediately after having owned a GTX260? Do you remember the previous vantage record held with 2x295s which had core clocks over 1GHz which broke 40K in vantage without physX assistance? I accept your opinion, but the 4XXX series was nothing except a late bloomer and their current architecture did not learn from previous mistakes despite being a significant improvement.

The GF100 may end up sucking. It's doubtful, but ATI, nV, and Intel are all going different routes from 2010-2011. Whichever one starts making the standards for the rest of the industry will be the leader in innovation and will have the next few steps of their reign planned in advance. Expect to see one of these video card producers set a standard. That's what I'm truely anxious about.

GF100?? You mean GT300? Well, I hope that it should be at least 2x as good-performing than a GTX 285. I know that Nvidia is really focusing on CUDA, but Nvidia stated that they would be making so many changes to allow for better and more efficient processing with 16-bit HDR color and 8x FSAA. Add in DX11 support and I would expect it to be more of a leap from GT200 than GT200 was from G80.

I would expect GT300 to perform just as good as GTX 295 in most games, if not better. A 5870 still does not beat a 4870X2 overall, let alone 2x 4890's.

 

[Binge]

Actually it is called the GF100, sir.

 

[Velvet Wafer]

let the gt300 be like the r600.
its a fucking gorilla biscuit,btw

nvidia must loose this fight, for the sake of all enthusiasts,please
i really appreciate it, that now, the market shares gets more to equal,plus i wont ever buy a graphis card that costs more than 300 euro.

as you may know,im from the red camp, but i buy specific products of nvidia. low/midend stuff. they really excel at that, i love my 9600gt,it is surely a master for its price class

just my 2cents,doubtfully useful,regarding GT300 "Bugatti"

 

[Binge]

let the gt300 be like the r600.
its a fucking gorilla biscuit,btw

nvidia must loose this fight, for the sake of all enthusiasts,please
i really appreciate it, that now, the market shares gets more to equal,plus i wont ever buy a graphis card that costs more than 300 euro.

as you may know,im from the red camp, but i buy specific products of nvidia. low/midend stuff. they really excel at that, i love my 9600gt,it is surely a master for its price class

just my 2cents,doubtfully useful,regarding GT300 "Bugatti"

fanboys gtfo

 

[qubit]

Nvidia's mainstream Fermi is late Q1

Sounds like the high-end part might actually come later, which is odd, as they are usually first.

Read all about it at Fudzilla.

 

[Binge]

In perspective, Fermi will be released as a performance chip card, a high-end single chip card, and a dual-GPU card that might launch a few weeks later.

When it comes to entry level and mainstream segments, we will most likely have to wait until around March, if not even later. Despite the huge flexibility of Nvidia's Fermi GF100 architecture, it still takes time to derive slower performing chips from the original design.

This says mainstream fermi will be out after the high end.

 

[qubit]

Yes, of course.

When I read it, the sentences just wouldn't string together properly. Probably to do with all that insomnia I've been experiencing lately.

 

[mR Yellow]

Yeah, but the GT300 should have around 50% more bandwidth than a GTX285, which should eliminate most of the bottleneck for the GT300 core. Given that the 5870 has only 23% more bandwidth than a 4890, it's the only logical explanation for much lower performance than 2x 4890's in Xfire in many games.

Or they holding out on drivers. I just got hold of the latest drivers. I now get GPU score of 17400 in Vantage.

 

[qubit]

Or they holding out on drivers. I just got hold of the latest drivers. I now get GPU score of 17400 in Vantage.

That means nothing by itself. What did you get previously?

 

[mR Yellow]

That means nothing by itself. What did you get previously?

Well, i got 12000 odd. But the ave score was 15000.

 

[phanbuey]

I have to cover the two points you brought up which are:

1) The GF100 will be exactly 2x the 285 even in performance.

I highly doubt this. Memory bandwidth, and core architecture are completely different. It may perform worse until the new CUDA cores have proper drivers.

2) The GT200 was not a monster compared to the 4XXX series.

Then why did I sell my 4870x2 immediately after having owned a GTX260? Do you remember the previous vantage record held with 2x295s which had core clocks over 1GHz which broke 40K in vantage without physX assistance? I accept your opinion, but the 4XXX series was nothing except a late bloomer and their current architecture did not learn from previous mistakes despite being a significant improvement.

The GF100 may end up sucking. It's doubtful, but ATI, nV, and Intel are all going different routes from 2010-2011. Whichever one starts making the standards for the rest of the industry will be the leader in innovation and will have the next few steps of their reign planned in advance. Expect to see one of these video card producers set a standard. That's what I'm truely anxious about.

Ah but I never said exactly... I said about - give or take. In any case the key words there were: I think - that is, I really have no idea and was speculating purely on past releases, which were usually ~2x the speed of the previous gen's top card.

as for 2) Yes the gt200 were better cards (thats why I sent my 4870 back), they had higher mins, better drivers, OC'd an easy 25%+ with stock everything, were quieter and I could go on. BUT the 4870's (1GB editions) gave gt200 a decent run for its money - at the very least, 4870's were viable alternatives with good price/performance.

Compare that to the 3870, which couldn't match an 8800GT or even an OC'd 9600GT, never mind a 9800/8800 series. Or the R600 which got stomped in absolutely everything save the occasional nvidia driver glitch and 3dm06.

Basically the trends, as far as GPU core are roughly:

----------->Performance
ATI: R600>>>>>>>>>R670>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>R770>>>>>>>>R870>?
NVIDIA:>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>G80>>G92>>>>>>>>GT200>>>>>>>?

The question mark is where we are now... For sure AMD will release a new card to try and pee in Nvidia's cheerios, whatever the 5900 series is, probably either a tweaked 870 core or a 5870x2.

With that, the chances of NV coming out with another G80 that will just leave AMD in the dust are very low. And if its a costlier chip to make than the R870 (which it sounds like it is) then Fermi could be an R600.

 

[GC_PaNzerFIN]

Remember the HD 5870 X2 has 2x RV870 cores, double PWM, double memory chips etc. So I would say a $500 GT300 is pretty competitive in terms of profit against X2.

 

[Binge]

Remember the HD 5870 X2 has 2x RV870 cores, double PWM, double memory chips etc. So I would say a $500 GT300 is pretty competitive in terms of profit against X2.

I'm pretty sure we're going to see a Fermi (GTX380 flavor) out with that a price range of $450-550.

 

[qubit]

Well, i got 12000 odd. But the ave score was 15000.

Hey, that's quite a jump.