NVIDIA GeForce 4XX Series Discussion

[HammerON]

Sorry to be a skeptic, but I find this hard to be true. Do you have links to the "benchies" you mentioned?

 

[Lionheart]

but some benchies have said even OC Core i7 was bottlenecked HD 5970, we need more demanding game to use this fermi (or better CPU)

The HD5970 was designed for high resolutions, all benchmark reviews are mixed up so it makes it hard to trust one over the other, so i just watch video reviews.

 

[phanbuey]

The HD5970 was designed for high resolutions, all benchmark reviews are mixed up so it makes it hard to trust one over the other, so i just watch video reviews.

TRUTH!

but ... wizz reviews are top notch too...


I agree tho, 5970 is dominant at higher rez - same should apply for the fermi monster.


I am hoping for an improvement in IQ as well from the Fermi - but that might be hard to do, as g200 IQ is very advanced already.

 

[shevanel]

lol fermi i just hope the ferm comes packed with like 3 games.. and all bockbusters.

do they integrate a gpu2 for physics or are they just going to expect people to by GTX's for physx dedicated cards?

also, since there is eyenother ty gimmick in the other camp to allow multi monitors do you expect nv to bundle 3d shutter glasses and use that as their gimmick?

 

[phanbuey]

lol fermi i just hope the ferm comes packed with like 3 games.. and all bockbusters.

do they integrate a gpu2 for physics or are they just going to expect people to by GTX's for physx dedicated cards?

also, since there is eyenother ty gimmick in the other camp to allow multi monitors do you expect nv to bundle 3d shutter glasses and use that as their gimmick?

i expect them to go a bit hyperactive on CUDA as an answer. i.e dual core with a fermi is faster than an i7 type thing. Fermi is still primarily a GP GPU - the only one with error correction...

so even though ATI has better SP tflop rating no ecc means they are at disadvantage for HPC and gpgpu.

 

[subhendu]

I think what he means is: Would his mainboard memory reduce the performance of the Fermi?

Nah, probably not, unless your CPU is clocked lower than say, 3GHz and only a dual-core processor. Some games like Far Cry 2 would be bottlenecked by the CPU at 30 fps or less if you have an Athlon X2 5500 or a Celeron for example, no matter how powerful your GPU is. Also, if your DDR2-800 is CAS 6 or higher, then that could also hurt performance. But if you're using an overclocked 3.6GHz Core 2 Quad with DDR2-800 at CAS 4 latency, then it would not reduce the performance of Fermi for most games.

I am planning to buy p II x4 955...no plans for overclock.will use mainboard memory 4gb 800mhz ddr2..will it reduce the performance of a fermi?

 

[Binge]

Just another friendly reminder... please keep this thread on topic. It's about the GT3XX series and not about ATI, ATI's cards, or ATI's business tactics.

I am planning to buy p II x4 955...no plans for overclock.will use mainboard memory 4gb 800mhz ddr2..will it reduce the performance of a fermi?

It would reduce performance of fermi in games, but if you were using fermi for F@H there would be no reduction.

 

[Bo_Fox]

I am planning to buy p II x4 955...no plans for overclock.will use mainboard memory 4gb 800mhz ddr2..will it reduce the performance of a fermi?

That's a nice CPU, so it should not reduce the performance by much. However, some games might show noticeable improvements from overclocking the CPU along with memory (or at least faster CPU/memory).

but some benchies have said even OC Core i7 was bottlenecked HD 5970, we need more demanding game to use this fermi (or better CPU)

Are you talking about the new article recently done by Xbitlabs?

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/radeon-hd5870-cpu-scaling.html

Usually, Crossfire/SLI setups need much faster CPU's, given the greater overhead. A single 5870 usually did just fine with a non-overclocked i7 920 in most games, so I'd expect almost the same for a single Fermi (well, at least a 3.2-3.4 GHz Core i7 ).

 

[wahdangun]

i expect them to go a bit hyperactive on CUDA as an answer. i.e dual core with a fermi is faster than an i7 type thing. Fermi is still primarily a GP GPU - the only one with error correction...

so even though ATI has better SP tflop rating no ecc means they are at disadvantage for HPC and gpgpu.

but, G-force version of FERMi WILL NOT use ECC because it bring performance hit.

 

[cadaveca]

you sure it won't? that'd be too bad, for real.

 

[Binge]

They've only promised ECC support to the Fermis in their Tesla model cards.

 

[wahdangun]

hey, it doesn't matter at all, the most important thing is raw power, and im'm glad hey don't use ECC if it just bring performance hit

 

[Binge]

hey, it doesn't matter at all, the most important thing is raw power, and im'm glad hey don't use ECC if it just bring performance hit

It hasn't been released that they won't use ECC either, but I agree. ECC would slow down ma gaming, and I need all my frames in Crysis.

 

[cadaveca]

and I need all my frames in Crysis.

Damn Cevat. Why'd he do that...without that game, noone would need such power, really. Even GTA4 is jsut cpu-bound...

Bring on the ECC. I know that current titles will play just fine, given what seems to be expected of Fermi's gaming card, so the ECC should have no effect with the extra power. Would be a crowning acheivement, IMHO.

Gotta stop throwing gpu power @ bad programming. It allows programmers to be too lazy...

 

[20mmrain]

Just another friendly reminder... please keep this thread on topic. It's about the GT3XX series and not about ATI, ATI's cards, or ATI's business tactics.

I would agree with that but sometimes it's hard to talk about one with out the other..... Because there are only two companies to compare.

The more I think about it from my discussion before..... I am starting to believe that Femi will be the more powerful card and not a flop. While I still believe that the GTX380 won't be able to beat a 5970 I do believe it will be more powerful than a 5870. I also believe that Femi will be Uber expensive and only cater to a select people who have to have the absolute best. Which will probably be a problem for Nvidia....... That still remains to be seen though......

The reason I am now starting to believe this more...... is if you look at all the graphs that were shown here...... Yes Nvidia has been pretty good on competing with them selves for better performance.

I also believe that who has the crown for better performance in irrelevant. If you look back at history (especially recent...) You would notice that ATI's 4800's series came out in the summer if 2008..... And Nvidia's offering GTX200 series in Winter later that year (myabe early 2009 I can't remember). It almsot seems to me that they both take the crown away from each other for about 6 months at a time.

The only way to tell if what Nvidia has invested with Femi will hurt the company is to wait and see when they come out. Other wise anything else is just guessing.

But with that said my guess is that the cost of making these cards and selling will further hurt Nvidia. I also believe while they might be more powerful in computations ..... I think that they will act about on par with what ATI is offering currently. So If you want to do Folding and the like wait for Nvidia. Other wise By either when they come out.

I just think that it is stupid for ATI owners and Nvidia owners to want their card Manufacturer to win so bad. Because if that ever really did happen and one knocked the other off the map..... Then the remaining company would be so over priced and the there would be never any performance gains. There would be no reason because they wouldn't have anyone to compete against.

 

[Binge]

Cry more about Crytek. Whining about ECC to a bunch of people who buy cards for benchmarking/gaming isn't going to make it part of the consumer grade card. Even if you whine to NV I doubt they'd listen either because they don't need to make their consumer cards even more expensive. Everyone knows ATI's aren't ready to compete in GPGPU, and even the 5 series are just starting to match the G92s. Without the competition there's no need for them to seriously consider using ECC memory in their cards.

 

[kid41212003]

If it's not as fast as HD5970, but faster than HD5870, then it's obvious the price will stay between them.

And I don't have any problems buying a card under HD5970's price.

 

[cadaveca]

Cry more about Crytek. Whining about ECC to a bunch of people who buy cards for benchmarking/gaming isn't going to make it part of the consumer grade card. Even if you whine to NV I doubt they'd listen either because they don't need to make their consumer cards even more expensive. Everyone knows ATI's aren't ready to compete in GPGPU, and even the 5 series are just starting to match the G92s. Without the competition there's no need for them to seriously consider using ECC memory in their cards.

LoL, personally, we only have good FAH on nV because of nV supporting stanford. There was a time when ATi could fold only. nV didn't invent GPGPU, altohugh many would like to say that. Your compare is not apt...that fault is programming, where AMD invests nothing, but nV invests alot. I don't need nV's help for that...nor will I be blinded by it.

Without the competition there's no need for them to seriously consider using ECC memory in their cards.

True enough. This is why i have alot of repsect for nV...they are actively helping with the programming. They invest money into thier products...AMD just makes the hardware.

 

[Binge]

I would agree with that but sometimes it's hard to talk about one with out the other..... Because there are only two companies to compare.

The more I think about it from my discussion before..... I am starting to believe that Femi will be the more powerful card and not a flop. While I still believe that the GTX380 won't be able to beat a 5970 I do believe it will be more powerful than a 5870. I also believe that Femi will be Uber expensive and only cater to a select people who have to have the absolute best. Which will probably be a problem for Nvidia....... That still remains to be seen though......

The reason I am now starting to believe this more...... is if you look at all the graphs that were shown here...... Yes Nvidia has been pretty good on competing with them selves for better performance.

I also believe that who has the crown for better performance in irrelevant. If you look back at history (especially recent...) You would notice that ATI's 4800's series came out in the summer if 2008..... And Nvidia's offering GTX200 series in Winter later that year (myabe early 2009 I can't remember). It almsot seems to me that they both take the crown away from each other for about 6 months at a time.

The only way to tell if what Nvidia has invested with Femi will hurt the company is to wait and see when they come out. Other wise anything else is just guessing.

But with that said my guess is that the cost of making these cards and selling will further hurt Nvidia. I also believe while they might be more powerful in computations ..... I think that they will act about on par with what ATI is offering currently. So If you want to do Folding and the like wait for Nvidia. Other wise By either when they come out.

I just think that it is stupid for ATI owners and Nvidia owners to want their card Manufacturer to win so bad. Because if that ever really did happen and one knocked the other off the map..... Then the remaining company would be so over priced and the there would be never any performance gains. There would be no reason because they wouldn't have anyone to compete against.

A comparison is perfectly relevant in some respects, but it has to be relevant to the GT3XX series which has yet to be released. What needs to be considered is that unless mentioning the 5XXX series helps to understand NV's performance goal via competitive scaling then it's completely useless to mention them.

For the record the last generation was released Q4 2008 Nvidia, end of Q1 2009 ATI.

 

[20mmrain]

A comparison is perfectly relevant in some respects, but it has to be relevant to the GT3XX series which has yet to be released. What needs to be considered is that unless mentioning the 5XXX series helps to understand NV's performance goal via competitive scaling then it's completely useless to mention them.

For the record the last generation was released Q4 2008 Nvidia, end of Q1 2009 ATI.

I still believe what I believe with that and like I say the only way to see is when the cards release out.......

Now I am going to post a pic that doesn't help my point very much but it helps yours....(with the single gpu vs double gpu top Cards) That you and I both a gree will eventually happen. These benchmarks are supposed to be leaked from someone who has a connection from Nvidia. They were released on Guru's website....... So it will support your theory.... While I still find these hard to believe and I don't think they are true (because the situation you are talking about I believe won't happen till the next Gen 6800 and GT400) But regardless I will admit that I am wrong if these are true...... Here you go Link at the bottom

Link here!!!

http://www.guru3d.com/news/geforce-gtx-360-and-380-benchmarks/

 

[20mmrain]

If the above I posted is correct and they can beat ATI with out having to build a GX2 version of their cards.... I think Nvidia might be able to get back into the game. But this is only a rumor and my mind still hasn't change but I thought I would still share considering that Guru is pretty trust worthy.

Nvidia could endure the cost because than they would only have to have one die per card opposed to ATI's duel. That is the only way I think Nvidia could stay in the game. If not I believe they will be too expensive and there will be now other choice to fold...... But personally I don't think that we will see this competition till next gen.

Have fun with this Binge <----- you notice How I wrote this in red..... It's just to show you how pretty of a color it is to green...... Just yanking your chain bud!

 

[Benetanegia]

I still believe what I believe with that and like I say the only way to see is when the cards release out.......

Now I am going to post a pic that doesn't help my point very much but it helps yours....(with the single gpu vs double gpu top Cards) That you and I both a gree will eventually happen. These benchmarks are supposed to be leaked from someone who has a connection from Nvidia. They were released on Guru's website....... So it will support your theory.... While I still find these hard to believe and I don't think they are true (because the situation you are talking about I believe won't happen till the next Gen 6800 and GT400) But regardless I will admit that I am wrong if these are true...... Here you go

http://forums.techpowerup.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=31393&stc=1&d=1260727780

http://www.guru3d.com/news/geforce-gtx-360-and-380-benchmarks/

LOL. Freaking similar to my charts. If I said that I've made those slides, I'm sure more than one would believe me.

 

[wahdangun]

or maybe someone see your chart and make slide from those

 

[cadaveca]

I find it odd that they chose those apps? It would be more interesting to see nVidia beat AMD in AMD-supported apps, no? None of these engines does anything really interesting. Where's DX11? Who cares about DX10? Looks like a pretty even 80% over GTX285?

And really, R5xxx isn't relevant at all. For a DX11 chip, 120FPS is a bare minimum, considering 3D. So what those graphs say is that for 3D gaming @ 1920x1200, I gotta buy "2xGTX380"? To add in Phys-X effects?

How about thoes apps? Can I run 3D @ 120hz with Phys-X? I am hoping a single chip can do this, not two.

That's what Fermi needs to be, at least to me as a consumer. If I have to buy two $600 cards, and maybe a third, and then a 1200W PSU as well, so I can have the pleasure of buying another kit for $600 with monitor and glasses...taxes, shipping...Fermi costs $2000 for the complete end user package, @ 1920x1080? Add in cpu, memory, motherboard, casing, HDD's, ODD's....I'm not a happy camper.

Haw many games will work perfectly? What about those DX11 titles? Seems they are just now ready for DX10, performance wise, or do we need three gpus still?

 

[20mmrain]

I find it odd that they chose those apps? It would be more interesting to see nVidia beat AMD in AMD-supported apps, no? None of these engines does anything really interesting. Where's DX11? Who cares about DX10? Looks like a pretty even 80% over GTX285?

And really, R5xxx isn't relevant at all. For a DX11 chip, 120FPS is a bare minimum, considering 3D. So what those graphs say is that for 3D gaming @ 1920x1200, I gotta buy "2xGTX380"? To add in Phys-X effects?

How about thoes apps? Can I run 3D @ 120hz with Phys-X? I am hoping a single chip can do this, not two.

That's what Fermi needs to be, at least to me as a consumer. If I have to buy two $600 cards, and maybe a third, and then a 1200W PSU as well, so I can have the pleasure of buying another kit for $600 with monitor and glasses...taxes, shipping...Fermi costs $2000 for the complete end user package, @ 1920x1080? Add in cpu, memory, motherboard, casing, HDD's, ODD's....I'm not a happy camper.

Haw many games will work perfectly? What about those DX11 titles? Seems they are just now ready for DX10, performance wise, or do we need three gpus still?
__________________

+1 on your statement with both companies fronts!!!!

LOL. Freaking similar to my charts. If I said that I've made those slides, I'm sure more than one would believe me.

Yeah actually I posted this for you in mind and put someone else's name down by accident. You know it probably didn't get stolen from you but...... When you do searches on this topic Tech power up comes up a lot.

So you know I wouldn't be surprised if it was stolen from you.!!!

I still just think though bud we are one gen away yet on your theory coming true. Unless when ATI stated " We have a surprise for Nvidia when Femi releases " they were talking about their X3 or X4 cards then.

But man if these specs are true...... this will make me either buy two more 5870's or I might have no other choice to go with the green team. As long as the price is right. It still makes sense to use one card opposed to multiple. More power efficient and cooler. Xfire and SLI are still not were they need to be for me to think otherwise.