NVIDIA Fermi-based GeForce GPU Further Delayed?

[eidairaman1]

Did I say Fermi will be obsolete when it arrives ? No I said it would almost be obsolete because as you may know in the tech world it changes monthly.

Also you say my post is uneducated and misinformed ? I don't see how it is because I made an obvious statement, being that they were the only competitors in the DX11 market and that DX10/9 is a bigger market.

I do not see any year and a half old cards keeping up with ATi's 5850,5870 and 5970. Ati's mainstream performance card the 5770 is almost on par with a 260 216 which was nvidia's mid range card but cheaper at release than the 260. This is not misinformation this is fact.

Also your totally being "fanboyish" in that whole post so please reflect on your own post before calling mine uninformed uneducated crap.

Example Look at what happened to Larrabee. Intel decided to cancel it due to the amt of rendering it couldn't do compared to ATIs 4800 series along with the 5000 series

 

[TAViX]

Workstation cards arent worth the cash. They are the same thing with a different firmware and more ram.

if you mod the drivers (or BIOS flash) cards between quadro and geforce, or radeon and fireGL - you get the performance boosts.

They deliberately cripple the gaming cards drivers, so that they can charge more for the workstation cards - often the hardware is exactly the same

I have at work those cards, Quadro FX 4800 working in SLI, and check out this:

Transforming a gaming card like the GeForce GTX 280 into an equivalent workstation model is something that Nvidia quite naturally wants to forestall. Attempts to use workstation drivers in gaming cards by consumers just to see "if they work" are inevitable because the hardware is only minimally different. Since Nvidia inserts special values into its video BIOSes to prevent dissimulation, such attempts are doomed to failure.


Technically, Nvidia offers significantly different drivers for its workstation cards as compared to gaming models. After the sale, Nvidia also offers significantly better product support for workstation models as well. Higher prices for the Quadro models also commanded from a lower number of products sold, higher support costs, and a longer warranty period. In return, buyers can expect swift responses when hardware defects are uncovered. In most cases an exchange will be made ASAP (in no more than 24 hours). Gaming card buyers, on the other hand, don't enjoy this level of service or support (but then, they don't pay for it, either).


As one might expect, the gaming card is carefully impeded and is largely unable to exercise its performance potential when running workstation applications. Our benchmarks show this phenomenon at work clearly and unmistakably.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/quadro-fx-4800,2258-10.html

So yes, I wont buy a professional card for gaming, but I would definitely buy one if I were running a CAD/CAM/CAE business or design/3D modeling office of some sort. The companies can afford those without any problems.

 

[Mussels]

I have at work those cards, Quadro FX 4800 working in SLI, and check out this:



http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/quadro-fx-4800,2258-10.html

So yes, I wont buy a professional card for gaming, but I would definitely buy one if I were running a CAD/CAM/CAE business or design/3D modeling office of some sort. The companies can afford those without any problems.

the same people said you cant run SLI on AMD boards, or old intel boards. people here at TPU hacked that a while back

 

[crazyeyesreaper]

if i remember right its extremely easy to modify an ati 3850 to be a firegl / firestream whatever gpu a simply bios update to from the right model and a proper driver install and bingo have a few friends that work freelance one just finished a contract job with EA he needed to get some renders out and get a bit more oomph in his workstation so he flashed his cards did the job then changed them back nvidias cards are harder to do that with but in general if u match the gpus up properly ati cards are easy to turn into workstation cards so the $2000 price tag is unneeded if u roll of your sleeves and dig a little never seen that trick used with nvidia gpus but i bet its possible

sorry my bad he used a 3850 not a 4870 that makes me wonder when can i use my 5850s as workstation gpus

and i wonder if the same will be possible with nvidia gt300s

altho it should be said softmodding to a workstation card isnt always advisable things can go wrong alot of times

 

[tastegw]

Nvidia, you lost a customer, i tried to hold out as long as i could for the next gen cards of yours....just grabbed a 5850 today from newegg.....this should hold me atleast until the next generation.

sorry green, maybe next time.

 

[RoutedScripter]

No surprises here ...

 

[1Kurgan1]

DX11 card when it is released wont be obsolete and even if ATI manages to overclock a 5870 some more and call it a 5970 the GT300 will probably still whoop it.

GTX260 is how old? And ATI is still trying to compete with that? Seems like Intel/AMD to me.

Yea 1 game. Dirt 2 is the ONLY game out right now that is DX11. Stalkers engine is old as the hills and only has a DX11 patch and that game as well as Bad Company 2 will be released around the time of Fermi IF its released around march. So....my point still remains.

Im talking about the G200 chip in general. We wont name rehashes like a 55nm counterpart. The GTX 280 is about 1.5 years old and with it i can get performance right under a 5870.

And yea Nvidia isnt worried. They always come back with an ultimate GPU that completely dominates and it takes over a year for ATI to catch up. As i had said earlier, an overclocked version of a 5870 dubbed 5970 wont make much of a difference. If i was such a fanboy i would be using my 8800GS instead of a 4850 since my 280 died. So all im doing is basing facts with educated opinion on the matter. Being a reviewer i get more info than the general public where these things are concerned.

Im just tired of people bashing Nvidia for delaying and making sure the chip dosent have the faults it did when its released. Idk about yall, but i would rather Nvidia do what they normally do and take a while to make a badass chip then play EA and release buggy shit that people bitch about. Release a monster chip and make ATI play catchup for over a year

Seems you still forgot battleforge, and your counting an OC'd GTX 280 vs a 5870 stock.... Yes OCing is a good way to up performance, but you get what you pay for with a 5870, it overclocks much better than a 280, and OC vs OC obviously isn't much of a comparison, the 5870 is the better card, the GTX 280 is a great card, but its a cheaper card.

As far as NV coming back with the ultimate card, thats suppose to be how it works when each company schedules a release close to the others, it hasn't just been NV domination, for the last 2 generations the best bench cards were ATI cards for a long time, till the 285/295 landed.

I'm not bashing NV for delaying anything, they need their time, then they need their time, better to get a good product out the door than a POS like the FX5500's. But I'm just saying you seriously expect a company that is a half a year behind their competition to release a card that will trounce the market? I mean thats just silly, new gens of cards come out almost every year, they are behind a half a cycle, thats a big gap. Just to get anything to the market for some competition would be great. And it doesn't matter, I do expect their top card to go toe to toe with the 5870, which is fantastic. The 5870 is more than enough to play anything out there and so would NV's equivalent. They don't need anymore than that, once they have their foot in the door with a powerful card (which I would assume wouldn't be the best since ATI has had it's sweet time) thats all they need.

Thats all I'm saying, it does not make any sense for a company thats so late out of the gates to have the capability to release a chip that would put ATI a year back, ATI had a DX11 chip on the market before NV seemed to even begin working on one, I'm just speaking realistically here, you seem to be dreaming quite a bit.

the same people said you cant run SLI on AMD boards, or old intel boards. people here at TPU hacked that a while back

SLI on AM3? Links!

 

[Mussels]

SLI on AM3? Links!

http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=60844&page=101

page 101 - hope you like reading (first post is out of date, check say.. page 90 onwards)

 

[DrPepper]

DX11 card when it is released wont be obsolete and even if ATI manages to overclock a 5870 some more and call it a 5970 the GT300 will probably still whoop it.

GTX260 is how old? And ATI is still trying to compete with that? Seems like Intel/AMD to me.

Yea 1 game. Dirt 2 is the ONLY game out right now that is DX11. Stalkers engine is old as the hills and only has a DX11 patch and that game as well as Bad Company 2 will be released around the time of Fermi IF its released around march. So....my point still remains.

Im talking about the G200 chip in general. We wont name rehashes like a 55nm counterpart. The GTX 280 is about 1.5 years old and with it i can get performance right under a 5870.

And yea Nvidia isnt worried. They always come back with an ultimate GPU that completely dominates and it takes over a year for ATI to catch up. As i had said earlier, an overclocked version of a 5870 dubbed 5970 wont make much of a difference. If i was such a fanboy i would be using my 8800GS instead of a 4850 since my 280 died. So all im doing is basing facts with educated opinion on the matter. Being a reviewer i get more info than the general public where these things are concerned.

Im just tired of people bashing Nvidia for delaying and making sure the chip dosent have the faults it did when its released. Idk about yall, but i would rather Nvidia do what they normally do and take a while to make a badass chip then play EA and release buggy shit that people bitch about. Release a monster chip and make ATI play catchup for over a year

GT300 and RV5xx will be obsolete because there will be new designs on the table and being scheduled for release. Anyway your taking this way to personally it's a goddamn silicon chip made by a multimillion dollar company that doesn't need defending. If it owns then yay if it doesn't then it will go down as a failure because it was late and underperforming. For someone who says he is a reviewer your very biased which is worrying. Also the GTX280 is not right behind the 5870 in terms of performance, that statement is just wrong.

 

[Mussels]

to back up Drpepper:

Yes, the 285 is the nearest card behind it. but with a 17% performance decrease... its not "on its heels" its just "the closest thing they have"

19% at a resolution more likely to find the card used on

 

[DrPepper]

to back up Drpepper:

http://tpucdn.com/reviews/ATI/Radeon_HD_5870/images/perfrel.gif

Yes, the 285 is the nearest card behind it. but with a 17% performance decrease... its not "on its heels" its just "the closest thing they have"

Thank you. I am not an ATi fan I am a performance fan. If I can get more fps for my money using VIA S3 I would. It so happens that the 4890 was cheaper than the GTX275 by £50 and that is a steal for the same performance.

 

[1Kurgan1]

http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=60844&page=101

page 101 - hope you like reading (first post is out of date, check say.. page 90 onwards)

That thread seems to go only to page 51?

to back up Drpepper:

http://tpucdn.com/reviews/ATI/Radeon_HD_5870/images/perfrel.gif

Yes, the 285 is the nearest card behind it. but with a 17% performance decrease... its not "on its heels" its just "the closest thing they have"

19% at a resolution more likely to find the card used on
http://tpucdn.com/reviews/ATI/Radeon_HD_5870/images/perfrel_1920.gif

Whats really sad is, the cheapest GTX 285 on the egg is right on the heels of a 5870's price, and the cheapest 5850 is almost $100 less than the GTX 285, yet it's a faster card... I usually buy what gets me the most for the least, like my gf's comp has a NV 9600GT cause I got a great deal on it, but when it comes to top end cards, the reasons for me to go ATI is pretty cut and dry. Just painful to see 285's prices still...

 

[Mussels]

That thread seems to go only to page 51?

you must have changed default settings for length of pages or something.

Whats really sad is, the cheapest GTX 285 on the egg is right on the heels of a 5870's price, and the cheapest 5850 is almost $100 less than the GTX 285, yet it's a faster card... I usually buy what gets me the most for the least, like my gf's comp has a NV 9600GT cause I got a great deal on it, but when it comes to top end cards, the reasons for me to go ATI is pretty cut and dry. Just painful to see 285's prices still...

$100 more for 5% less performance, and DX10.0 vs 11

whats painful is the Nvidia fans who still insist the Nv cards are the better choice - they may have been once, but that time has passed for these cards unless their prices drop.

 

[dan7777]

Nvidia, you lost a customer, i tried to hold out as long as i could for the next gen cards of yours....just grabbed a 5850 today from newegg.....this should hold me atleast until the next generation.

sorry green, maybe next time.

+1 ive just gone from NV to 5850 and its great apart from drivers being abit crappy compared to NV give me NV drivers anyday but im staying with amd for abit anyway.

 

[Eva01Master]

I think NVidia's new GPU will be so overpowered than even if ATI launches a 5990 the very day GT300 hits the shelves, the Green team will still have the flagship in GPU power (As usual)

 

[1Kurgan1]

you must have changed default settings for length of pages or something.

$100 more for 5% less performance, and DX10.0 vs 11

whats painful is the Nvidia fans who still insist the Nv cards are the better choice - they may have been once, but that time has passed for these cards unless their prices drop.

Yeah I changed my pages to be as long as possible, hated loading new pages. The only competitive prices NV card on the market (that isn't low end) seems to be the GTX 260, always has been a competitively priced card, but seems once NV starts looking at their top performance cards they could careless what the price is on the shelves.

I think NVidia's new GPU will be so overpowered than even if ATI launches a 5990 the very day GT300 hits the shelves, the Green team will still have the flagship in GPU power (As usual)

As usual? The 3870x2 and 4870x2 held the benching crowns for the better part of the last 2 years, got to take off the blind fold. Lets hope NV comes out with a competitive card, the 5800's could use a price drop, but I think your being a bit optimistic (more like very).

 

[crazyeyesreaper]

i am under the impression that nvidia has heat issues i wont be surprised if we see cards overheating left and right unless they sound like a leaf blower on idle and typhoon when the fan spins up
either that or dare a say it a triple slot cooler

 

[TAViX]

http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=60844&page=101

page 101 - hope you like reading (first post is out of date, check say.. page 90 onwards)

WAIT!!! Stupid n00b question comming: So if I have 2 nvidia 280 I cannot run them on SLI on my ASUS P5Q mobo, because the chipset is not an nvidia one??

 

[Mussels]

WAIT!!! Stupid n00b question comming: So if I have 2 nvidia 280 I cannot run them on SLI on my ASUS P5Q mobo, because the chipset is not an nvidia one??

Nvidia requires you to have an nvidia motherboard to run SLI, with the exception of i5/i7 (because they have no motherboard chipsets there)

ATI/AMD allows crossfire to work on AMD chipsets and intel chipsets.

 

[ToTTenTranz]

Not to mention that a 5770 in Crossfire is faster than any 58xx...

Not really, it's still slower than a HD5870. And it's on par with a HD5850 in most occasions.

 

[TAViX]

$100 more for 5% less performance, and DX10.0 vs 11

whats painful is the Nvidia fans who still insist the Nv cards are the better choice - they may have been once, but that time has passed for these cards unless their prices drop.

Hehe, don't worry I can find in Japan, in some stores a 3850 at around 190$, hahaha. I think it depends on the store or something....

http://kakaku.com/item/05500415874/

Yen - Dolar conversion

Not really, it's still slower than a HD5870. And it's on par with a HD5850 in most occasions.

5770 Crossfire slower than 5870? Well, not really according to this:

 

[SNiiPE_DoGG]

im not sure why you would use a dual card setup when the single card setup is right behind it in performance... doesnt make a whole lot of sense

 

[TAViX]

im not sure why you would use a dual card setup when the single card setup is right behind it in performance... doesnt make a whole lot of sense

It's simple. Because I already have 1 video card, and i can save 1 or 2 months, and buy another same card to further boost performance.

In other news, brightsideofnews.com shows some new details of the upcoming Fermi or GTX 3xx series:

 

[Eva01Master]

Maybe I'm being optimistic, but what's the point on being pessimistic and dismiss the new releases believing the new NVidia architecture will be a fail? I can't even recall which was the last architectural fail in the Green Team (Actually I can, to me last failure was 7900GX2 which was corrected in part by 7950GX2) and BTW 4XXX X2 or whatever had nothing to do against the GTX295...

 

[pr0n Inspector]

Maybe I'm being optimistic, but what's the point on being pessimistic and dismiss the new releases believing the new NVidia architecture will be a fail? I can't even recall which was the last architectural fail in the Green Team (Actually I can, to me last failure was 7900GX2 which was corrected in part by 7950GX2) and BTW 4XXX X2 or whatever had nothing to do against the GTX295...

Possibly because some people feel a need to justify their purchases to others and make themselves feel good by proving their choices are the best ones, whichever side they are on.