NVIDIA GeForce 4XX Series Discussion

[Benetanegia]

Yeah, yeah you're a real fucking saint. Anyway how do you get Physx to work with ATI cards in 64-bit Win7?

You don't need to be a saint to do that, you just need a brain and maybe like two neurons. The fact that you even considered that a response is sad, pretty sad. :shadedshu

 

[TheMailMan78]

You don't need to be a saint to do that, you just need a brain and maybe like two neurons. The fact that you even considered that a response is sad, pretty sad. :shadedshu

Your such a hero. Be mine and tell me how to enable an ATI card with an Nvidia Physx card in Win7 there Gandhi.

 

[bobzilla2009]

Did Nvidia purportedly break it? Let me think about it?? NO?

I think it's more the fact that they didn't fix it that annoyed people, they bought a product that was working one day, but not the next. The reasons for this were unknown (asides from being drivers based, ofc) and nvidia didn't seem to make any effort to fix it.

However it appears this thread is once again going off on it's own dreamy tangent. Please Nvidia! release some information, so that this thread may be saved!

 

[cadaveca]

I think it's more the fact that they didn't fix it that annoyed people, they bought a product that was working one day, but not the next. The reasons for this were unknown (asides from being drivers based, ofc) and nvidia didn't seem to make any effort to fix it.

However it appears this thread is once again going off on it's own dreamy tangent. Please Nvidia! release some information, so that this thread may be saved!

Fermi will be seen @ CES TOMORROW(or so rumour goes). I know my posts today have been a bit 1/2 off topic...but it's part of the discussion too, I suppose. Bene asked why people were so negative about Fermi, and coversation followed.

So we must wait for tomorrow for more info. I hope we get lots..but I ahve a feeling that the info may not directly reflect what the final products are like. And hopefully they aren't jsut showing Fermi in closed sessions, with NDAs!!!

 

[Benetanegia]

thousands of developers?

At 150-200 developers per development team, which is the standard today, yes sir thousands.

Have you any proof amd didn't send a hd4xxx card?

The guy doing the hack said that. Now you have any proof of Nvidia doing any of the BS has has been said about them?

 

[bobzilla2009]

ahaa, i thought you meant studios, so yes there are definitely thousands. Also i don't have any proof, but i have not thrown around any BS at nvidia either, i just want to hear some proof of your arguments. From what i could gather, it was just baseless slander flying everywhere, so i'd like to find out more. Therefore, if there is a link i could look at with regards to the hack guy it would be an interesting read

Also, i'm quietly hoping for some info tomorrow then, but i'll assume NDA's and/or nothing noteworthy.

 

[Benetanegia]

ahaa, i thought you meant studios, so yes there are definitely thousands. Also i don't have any proof, but i have not thrown around any BS at nvidia either, i just want to hear some proof of your arguments. From what i could gather, it was just baseless slander flying everywhere, so i'd like to find out more. Therefore, if there is a link i could look at with regards to the hack guy it would be an interesting read

Also, i'm quietly hoping for some info tomorrow then, but i'll assume NDA's and/or nothing noteworthy.

http://www.ngohq.com/news/14219-physx-gpu-acceleration-on-radeon-hd-3850-a.html
http://www.ngohq.com/news/14254-physx-gpu-acceleration-on-radeon-update.html

Posted by Regeneration on June 26th, 2008, 08:31 AM
You have to be patience and wait a bit. But to be honest - I’m not sure about it, AMD really pissed me off recently, I’m not sure we should “reward” them with something like that. Oh, I need a copy of UT3, I have it on Steam, but it take years to download, any donators? never mind, finally got it.

Ha, ha, ha.

Posted by Regeneration on June 27th, 2008, 07:53 PM
Quote:
how did AMD tick you off?
No, it’s not because PR issues but its part of it. Let’s just say they offended me personally.

Posted by Regeneration on June 29th, 2008, 11:56 AM
Okay, here are some updates about what’s going on:

• The software is still under development, there are a few issues that need to be addressed. During the weekend, I ran it on UT3 but its not working perfectly. However, after testing the game with a 8800GT, it seems that everything is fine on our side and the problem lies in UT3’s side.

• At this stage, I don’t know which GPUs will be supported. I don’t even know if we will release as a stand-alone application or bundled with our NGO ATI Optimized Driver. Hell, I don’t even know if it will be released at all.

• To everyone who claims this is fake/hoax, our software uses CUDA and It is intuitive to use because it is basically C. This task isn’t impossible as you think. If you’re visiting NGOHQ.com often, then you should know I’m a man of honor (without any image manipulation skills - never been an artist).

• I don’t see any legal problem with what are doing since CUDA and PhysX are free and we are using our code. However, I haven’t received any “green light” from our attorney yet to distribute it.

• We are still planning to post some footage of it in action. However, there are only two camcorders in our possession and both of them aren’t good as we predicted. The better one has very limited amount of storage.

• Seriously, we don’t accept any kind of donations from users.

• The decision not to support HD 4800 series is political. Don’t get me wrong, I’m a nice guy and I’d like to reward our users. However, even nice guys like me have websites to run. We have tried to obtain HD 4800 cards - but availability is too poor in our region. Anyway, every time a manufacturer launches a new product, he’s providing the press with some review samples. Most of the times, we just borrow it for a week or two, we don't care about it.

• Manufacturers aren’t providing us with any option to purchase cards and it’s impossible to find it in stores before the official launch. Recently, some manufacturers like AMD are providing 3-5 sites with ten samples and leaving the others in the dark. Therefore, we are forced to play these political games to keep our site alive. As Joe Pesci once said, running a terrorist’s organization isn’t cheap these days. You have to understand that these samples are like bread and water for us.

• Apologizes for the grammar mistakes, I haven’t slept much recently.

• Please do not fight on the forums, we have a lot of work that needs to be done and it’s not the right time to play kindergarten teacher.

Posted by Regeneration on July 3rd, 2008, 11:36 PM

I would like to update you about what’s going on. First, we were very pleased to see so many users and readers have applied to our Beta Test Program! To be specific: 191 users, 5 spies and 2 double agents have submitted applications during the last week. Those that will be chosen will be informed early before the beta is available – we can’t still point to “when” at this stage.

The bad news is we still don’t have access to any HD 4800 hardware yet. It is very important for this project to receive AMD’s support on both developer and PR levels. It seems that AMD still is not being cooperative, we get the feeling that they want this project to fail. Perhaps their plans are to strangle PhysX since AMD and Intel have Havok. We truly hope this is not the case since “format wars” are really bad for the consumers (For example: Blu-ray vs. HD-DVD).

Before we get to the good news, I’m going to ask you to hold on to something steady as some of you are going to feel a bit dizzy after you hear this. The truth is… Nvidia is now helping us with the project and it seems they are giving us their blessings. It’s very impressive, inspiring and motivating to see Nvidia's view on this. Why they help us? My best guess would be: They probably want to take on Intel with CUDA and to deal with the latest Havok threat from both AMD and Intel.

Some other good news, we are getting a lot of help from cool journalists like Theo Valich to address the HD 4800 access issue. I can confirm that our CUDA Radeon library is almost done and everything is going as planned on this side. There are some issues that need to be addressed, since adding Radeon support in CUDA isn’t a big deal - but it’s not enough! We also need to add CUDA support on AMD’s driver level and its being addressed as we speak.

Posted by Regeneration on July 7th, 2008, 06:26 PM
Here are some answers to your questions:

Q: Is this complete CUDA-to-ATI project, or just Physx-2-ATI?
A: CUDA-to-ATI project and PhysX.

Q: How come you have screenshots and its taking you so much to finish the project?
A: There is a lot of difference between partial support and full support. We don’t want to release incomplete project with a lot of bugs. We want to finish our project and to offer full support for PhysX and CUDA.

Q: Stop whining! Buy the damn card.
A: Budget/money is not an issue here. The issue here is the lack of world-wide availability of the HD 4800 series. We started this project a few days after AMD launched their HD 4800 series. We can’t acquire cards from AMD because they refuse to sell in low volumes and it’s unavailable via shops in our region (Forget about eBay! my eBay account is banned for no reason and they refuse to tell me why). So our only chance is either waiting for shops or asking from AMD. We don’t like to wait, it slows us down. If you can get AMD/their partners to sell in low volumes, we would love buy that damn card.

Q: It’s not that they aren't supporting this site; it’s that this site is potentially damaging AMD/ATI technology.
A: We emailed AMD before they launched the new HD 4800 family and asked to borrow samples. They ignored our emails and that was before we even thought about this project.

Q: Stop complaining about everything
A: It’s our obligation to report everything to our users/readers.

Q: To get corporate backing of a mission to support competitor’s technology is insane
A: This technology could make their Radeon brand even more attractive. Nvidia will use their popular The Way It Meant to be Played program to promote PhysX and everyone knows that Nvidia has better relations with game developers then AMD. If Radeons would support both PhysX and Havok it should make the brand more attractive to consumers.

Q: AMD/ATI has no-doubt already thrown millions into their physics technology
A: AMD received Havok license for free.

Q: Why don`t you try making Havok running on GeForce, and see how cooperative Nvidia will be.
A: It’s being investigated for some time now.

Q: Would it be possible to put an Nvidia graphics card in as a dedicated PhysX card to work alongside ATI cards that are doing the graphics?
A: No. But I think its possible with some software modifications.

Posted by Regeneration on July 13th, 2008, 02:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
excited but a bit disappointing at the same time. Lack of support fot AMD's high end cards and configurations? Is that a sell out in return for NV support?

Sell out? No. it’s due to software limitation and lack of developer support from AMD.

 

[KainXS]

the problem with the NGOHQ hack is that it could easily be faked by editing the strings in the physX software so that it showed Radeon PhysX instead of the normal PhysX(removed from recent releases), they only showed that picture, and no other evidence, I say it was fake and theres not much of a reason for nvidia to not like physX on amd products since it would have somewhat done massive damage to amd's stream since physx requires cuda to run.(this is more important for nvidia and is more than likely the reason they offered physx to amd at the time)

this thread keeps getting knocked off topic . . . . . . .

 

[bobzilla2009]

Still, it was interesting to see where it came from, thanks it's a pity we'll never see if this was in fact true. I suppose they could've bought a card at some point to continue the work, if they were that set on doing it. I found a hd5870 10 days after release, and i'm in england!

But they also have supposedly shown a hd38xx series gpu running physX, so they could've released a form of beta. No-one would've have cared about bugs, they would have liked to see if it worked, at least to some degree. It would have given the project huge creditability, but as it stands, i can't help but be skeptical. The proof of the hd3800 series test just wasn't good enough for me

Still, it was a nice idea apparently a few open source physics engines will be properly debuting in 2010 though, so happy physics time all around!

 

[Benetanegia]

the problem with the NGOHQ hack is that it could easily be faked by editing the strings in the physX software so that it showed Radeon PhysX instead of the normal PhysX, they only showed that picture, and no other evidence, I say it was fake and theres not much of a reason for nvidia to not like physX on amd products since it would have somewhat done massive damage to amd's stream physx requires cuda to run.(this is more important for nvidia and is more than likely the reason they offered physx to amd at the time)

My POV is always that something is better than nothing and in every situation like this what I see is a lot of this kind of evidence that supports the side of Nvidia, like developers themselves saying what is true and on the other side I always see... well nothing, except a lot of baseless suspicions based on previous baseless suspicions and the ever lasting argument of "They've done it before", when in fact I have yet to see a proof of that suposed first time they did domething like that. TBH the fact that people think that so many developers (again individuals) sell themselves cheap makes me just sick. But ey, I guess it's everyone's choice to believe some anonimous Ati fan's proofless claims instead of the public statements of respectable developers like Carmack (id), Tim Sweeney (Epic), Cevat Yerli (Crytek)...

I don't know man, everytime someone says those games run better on Nvidia cards because Nvidia paid them to, I feel like they are pissing over those developers for no reason. If there existed any proof and not just "I love Ati -> Ati says it has the better hardware -> they HAVE the better hardware -> Nvidia must be cheating if it's faster despite Ati has the better hardware".

this thread keeps getting knocked off topic . . . . . . .

I agree and I'm sorry for contributing to it, but as I said it really makes me sick, not because Nvidia so much, but because involves so many other people that are indirectly being insulted. I think that I have fight enough myths in this forums for people to know it's that what moves me and not any brand loyalty. (One example: I have fought until death against the myth of HD5xxx being memory bottlenecked, ask Bo Fox. )

It's just that Nvidia is almost always the one affected and it's been some time since I don't find other things exciting (CPU, mobo, etc are boring rigth now), only GPUs and tbh, there's Nvdia and there's Ati, so what am I suposed to talk about?

 

[bobzilla2009]

(One example: I have fought until death against the myth of HD5xxx being memory bottlenecked, ask Bo Fox. )

That debate bugged me too Also, i whole heartedly agree that brand loyalty is ridiculous in the end, always buy what is best for you, not the sticker on it!

Also, less than 24 hours until we may get a snippet of information on the 300 series!

 

[cadaveca]

It's just that Nvidia is almost always the one affected and it's been some time since I don't find other things exciting (CPU, mobo, etc are boring rigth now), only GPUs and tbh, there's Nvdia and there's Ati, so what am I suposed to talk about?

We all know why nV is the most affected by negative press.

Jen Hsun:

"We invented the GPU"

"We invented Phys-X"

"We invented GPGPU"

Uh...WHAT?



Maybe if they weren't so obviously wrong(and full of themselves) some times, they'd not have to deal with it.


That said though, having personally met quite a few people form nV, I gotta say, they really seem to take thier jobs seriously, and are normal people, just like you and I.

You talk about ending the BS...you better take that line straight to Jen Hsun, and tell him to be careful with his words.

 

[a_ump]

dam shits getting deep in this thread lol

anyone actually think there will be some info released at 12:01 tonite? dam i hope so lol

 

[Bo_Fox]

I agree and I'm sorry for contributing to it, but as I said it really makes me sick, not because Nvidia so much, but because involves so many other people that are indirectly being insulted. I think that I have fight enough myths in this forums for people to know it's that what moves me and not any brand loyalty. (One example: I have fought until death against the myth of HD5xxx being memory bottlenecked, ask Bo Fox. )

It's just that Nvidia is almost always the one affected and it's been some time since I don't find other things exciting (CPU, mobo, etc are boring rigth now), only GPUs and tbh, there's Nvdia and there's Ati, so what am I suposed to talk about?

Awww, but you're still alive, Benetanegia! That's only because you kinda started to agree that the HD58xx could use some more bandwidth! One thing that's for sure is that we will not be having this "debate" on the Fermi being a bit "hungry" for bandwidth!

That debate bugged me too Also, i whole heartedly agree that brand loyalty is ridiculous in the end, always buy what is best for you, not the sticker on it!

Oh yeah, it bugged the hell outta me!! All I wanted to do was point out the obvious, but I, as the messenger, got stabbed left and right, and from the back by basically everybody in that thread!!! And I survived, whew!

I just bought a 5770 for my younger brother for Xmas, then returned it to Newegg because of incompatibility with Abit Fatal1ty AN8-SLI, and got a 4890 for him instead. For myself, I'll be buying a GT300 unless the improved version of 5870 (5890?) is that much better (hint, hint.. shall I say it once again.. 512-bi.... oops I'll keep my lips sealed to avoid starting the same blissful debate on this thread)!

What's the time of the CES show tomorrow?

 

[zwawy]

Fermi@CES

http://pc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/news/event/20100107_340953.html

http://www.legitreviews.com/article/1175/1/

 

[bobzilla2009]

Surely they could find out the fps info from the unigine benchmark though? people could probably guess the fps fairly well at the first dragon flyby too, since that's on of the lowest fps points. If its above 25fps at 1080 and 4xAA, then the cuda tessellation technique, and the card in general, is working well. Let's just hope they haven't overly focused on making that demo run well and not real games. I suppose they still have 3 months to sort that out though.

At least it would seem they have a working card this time though maybe we will see a hard launch on 2nd March (if it's a paper one i think a lot of people will be more than a little annoyed).

Interestingly, as the rumor would have it, 36% (or so, give or [probably more likely] take 10% i would say) more performance than the 5870 puts it pretty much directly into 5970 territory, which should provide some great price competition.

To be honest this generation is shaping up to be just like the last one, except ATi released first this time around. The high end single card from amd competes with the second fastest from nvidia, with ati's dual gpu solution fighting the fastest nvidia card. I wonder how long it will be for a dual fermi card though, considering how rumors have been flying around about high temperatures and draw ect. (which we'll have to see for ourselves), it may be quite a while.

 

[Bo_Fox]

The last time we saw Fermi was at NVIDIA's GPU Technology Conference. This time however, what was on display was clearly a production level video card. All solder points matched up to the now 8-pin and 6-pin power connectors, and the exhaust port for the heat sink was not blocked off.

http://www.legitreviews.com/article/1175/1/


Ooooooohhhh... I cant wait for 3D Blu-Ray to become the next standard!!! It's almost as good as going from black-and-white to color TV!

 

[bobzilla2009]

I just want to have 3d without requiring the glasses, which i'm pretty sure is under development too. When that happens, count me in, but until then it's useless for me. What's the point of 3d if i can't see anything but blurry moving shapes eh? ^^ (well, i suppose at monitor distance it would just be slightly fuzzy moving shapes, but it's still annoying )

 

[Bo_Fox]

Yeah, same here. We need fast enough 1080p LCD monitors (120Hz, less than 2ms g2g and white-black response time). Then using those shutterglasses would no longer show the ghosting problem (as long as the shutter glasses also have perfect synchronization with the TV, and does not have any response time with the shuttering).

Else, we just need a TV that can display in 3D from the start, without needing glasses.

I really adore NV for actively supporting 3D. It's just a matter of time when we realize that 3D is the next thing, not super-high-def HD (when Blu-ray is usually as sharp as the picture can get since most of the filming is only focused on a singular spot, with most of the background being blurry). Anything sharper than blu-ray is hardly going to be any more impressive than going from 720p to 1080p, let alone from DVD.

The industry will begin to stagnate a few years later as Bluray keeps on dropping in price. Increased high-def (say, purple-ray) is not going to cut it. Companies will be starving for the next "big" thing, and it just might be 3D this time.

Can I just go into a frozen cryo-sleep for a few years and then come back here when everything's in 3D?

 

[bobzilla2009]

Indeed, i think only games really benefit from very high resolutions, due to aliasing effects that are present, so 3d is a good way of improving the experience. I just wonder what will be next after 3d, because interactive films are not a good idea imo, leave that to games.

Imagine a horror film where you're free to do anything, most of those films is based on 'why the feck is the idiot going into the dark scary room to get eaten?, pick up the damn assault rifle, not the banana!!!!! oh well, they died' It would just flop, the evil force/being/thingymajig would be killed 10 seconds in and all would be well.

 

[KainXS]

nice to see a working geforce variant, now the question is cost, if nvidia follows their old suit then they won't sell good after the initial rush, but if they pull an amd and drop prices these things will sell like ice in a desert

3D tv is going to be the next big thing in my mind though, . . . . . waits.

 

[Bo_Fox]

Indeed, i think only games really benefit from very high resolutions, due to aliasing effects that are present, so 3d is a good way of improving the experience. I just wonder what will be next after 3d, because interactive films are not a good idea imo, leave that to games.

Imagine a horror film where you're free to do anything, most of those films is based on 'why the feck is the idiot going into the dark scary room to get eaten?, pick up the damn assault rifle, not the banana!!!!! oh well, they died' It would just flop, the evil force/being/thingymajig would be killed 10 seconds in and all would be well.

ROFL!!! I just watched Paranormal Activity on blu-ray last night, and what you just said exactly describes that. The guy kept on going into dark rooms with just a flashlight, without turning the damn lights on in his home! Ahh.. horror flicks are an insult to human intelligence!

My bad.. I'm off topic.

 

[subhendu]

watched some videos....the image quality of gf 100 is superb..
and the card is a big one
still no idea about price ??

 

[Benetanegia]

watched some videos....the image quality of gf 100 is superb..
and the card is a big one
still no idea about price ??

You've been there? Or are you talking about videos in the internet? All I've seen have crappy quality. (The videos, not the card, the card is impossible to say.)

 

[subhendu]

net videos man...ha ha
not crappy quality for sure ^^