READ BEFORE POSTING!! The Rules of this Forum

[newtekie1]

It's a forum rule that was set by a majority of TPU's staff and moderators that is particular to the forum and has little to do with any national or international law. The same as requiring heatware or posting a picture in a thread.

I understand that, I just don't agree with any of the reasoning behind it, and feel that the people making the decisions are doing so on mis-information in their beliefs that selling OEM software is illegal.

I'm asking the reasoning behind the decisions. A simple "because we said so" doesn't sit well.

What is next? Only moderators and staff can post "because we said so"? No sale of ATi hardware "because we said so"? You can only post FS threads on the second tuesday following the 3rd full moon of the year "because we said so"? I mean, banning OEM software sales is just as arbitrary.

 

[t_ski]

The people who don't bother to read the rules in the first place won't read it no matter how clearly it can be seen. Unfortunately it's not a minority.

Maybe if there is some way to put a check box in that requires them to view it. They can't sell if the box is checked. Not sure if that's a possibility in the vBulliten software...

What I don't understand is why OEM OSes can't be sold. It isn't illegal to sell the OS by itself, in fact the OEM licence doesn't even apply to any of the sellers, only the initial person that opens the package. There are a set of rules for the person that opens the package, which can be seen on the white sleeve before openning the package, and there are a set of rules that the person installing the software agrees to when they are installing the software.

The person buying the OS from newegg, then selling it un-openned here, aren't bound by any licensing.

Perhaps the rule needs to be no selling of openned or used OEM software without the white sleeve in tacts, meaning the red stickers on the end aren't broken...

That's a good idea, but is possible to circumvent. In some cases the key is on the outside of the case or sleeve, so the key could be used without the package being opened.

 

[newtekie1]

Maybe if there is some way to put a check box in that requires them to view it. They can't sell if the box is checked. Not sure if that's a possibility in the vBulliten software...



That's a good idea, but is possible to circumvent. In some cases the key is on the outside of the case or sleeve, so the key could be used without the package being opened.

That is why the white sleeve needs to be intact with the red stickers at both ends. If it isn't there, that means the software probably came with a computer or has already been used and shouldn't be sold. The white sleeve means that no one has openned the package, so none of the rules or licensing applies to them. I think that is actually why Microsoft added that sleeve in the first place.

 

[btarunr]

Reasoning behind no OEM software is: because second-hand OEM software can have activation problems, there could be drama between the buyer and the seller, and TPU might have have to intervene / take a PR-hit for being a place where such software is traded. Selling OEM software isn't illegal per-say, but selling used OEM software could have both legal issues, and issues that puts buyers in an unfair amount of risk when buying it in P2P transactions such as what happens here.

As for why OEM OS software is altogether banned and not just second-hand OEM software: there's no proper way of telling if it's unused.

 

[Kreij]

Please read this for legality of selling MS OEM software

Unless you are a Microsoft Authorized OEM Distributor, you cannot sell OEM software unless it is accompanying a complete system.

 

[Easy Rhino]

Please read this for legality of selling MS OEM software

Unless you are a Microsoft Authorized OEM Distributor, you cannot sell OEM software unless it is accompanying a complete system.

i believe that only applies to businesses selling MS OEM, not individuals.

 

[newtekie1]

Reasoning behind no OEM software is: because second-hand OEM software can have activation problems, there could be drama between the buyer and the seller, and TPU will have to intervene / take a PR-hit for being a place where such software is sold. Selling OEM software isn't illegal per-say, but selling used OEM software could have both legal issues, and issues that puts buyers in an unfair amount of risk.

I'm in total agreement here, second hand OEM software = bad.

As for why OEM OS software is altogether banned and not just second-hand OEM software: there's no proper way of telling if it's unused.

At least with Microsoft's new packaging, it is pretty much impossible to get into that white sleeve without it being noticeable. So if the white sleeve is intact, and both red stickers are still there and not broken, it is safe to say the software is unopenned and unused. It is in this case, and this case only, that I think OEM software should be allowed.

Even Microsoft says this is acceptable:

Unopened Pack
If you don't open the pack, you can deliver the unopened pack to another system builder—an OEM, assembler, refurbisher, or preinstaller of software on computer systems.

http://oem.microsoft.com/script/contentpage.aspx?pageid=561809

I'm pretty sure all of us here buying on the forums are system builders.

 

[btarunr]

But then there's no point in buying it over TPU. Unopened anything will be sold at market price (of the OEM software)...unless the seller just broke into a Microsoft warehouse.

 

[newtekie1]

But then there's no point in buying it over TPU. Unopened anything will be sold at market price...unless the seller just broke into a Microsoft warehouse.

Not really, if I bought 10 copies because I was building 10 machines, and 3 people decided to back out, I'd sell them here for a little below what I paid to make at least some of the money back.

Or if I bought a copy expecting to build a machine, but then plans fell through, I might want to sell it here since I can't take it back. And if it would cost me $5 to ship it back to newegg and newegg is going to charge me a $15+ restocking fee, I might as well sell it here for $10 under retail and come out ahead. No?

Hell, the second senerio is more common then I like to admit. A lot of the stuff I end up selling here was something I bought with plans for, and the plans changed so I sold it here. I have a copy of XP MCE sitting in my basement that I planned to use for a build that I never got around to. I've also got an E3200 I bought about 6 months ago that was supposed to be used in a build also... I actually do this a lot...

 

[btarunr]

Not really, if I bought 10 copies because I was building 10 machines, and 3 people decided to back out, I'd sell them here for a little below what I paid to make at least some of the money back.

Or since it's unopened, give it back to when you bought it from for a full refund (EULA says "full refund"). So why would you want to sell it to someone over TPU at a loss?

 

[Easy Rhino]

there really is no use arguing over it now. if people want to sell OEM do it someplace else.

 

[newtekie1]

Or since it's unopened, give it back to when you bought it from for a full refund (EULA says "full refund"). So why would you want to sell it to someone over TPU at a loss?

You mean the EULA agreement that only applies to end users and not retailers, hence the words "End User" in the title?

Lets see, 3 copies of Win7 HP at $100 a piece, means if I ship them back to newegg, I'm out $45+Shipping... If I sell the three here for $95 a piece shipped I'm out maybe $30, but I'm still $15 better off than shipping it back to newegg.

 

[btarunr]

You mean the EULA agreement that only applies to end users and not retailers, hence the words "End User" in the title?

Lets see, 3 copies of Win7 HP at $100 a piece, means if I ship them back to newegg, I'm out $45+Shipping... If I sell the three here for $95 a piece shipped I'm out maybe $30, but I'm still $15 better off than shipping it back to newegg.

It only takes $10~15 worth of shipping to send all three items from your side back to Newegg, while Newegg adds shipping costs of each unit (unless it has a free shipping for x quantities offer) to send those three copies to you. So ~$300 recovered. Now try selling each of those copies to three different buyers on TPU: for cost of the copy plus shipping charges. You end up at a slight but certain loss.

Anyways, we're through implementing this rule. Thanks for the discussion.
----

As a late answer to the argument of how some TPU staff could in the past get away selling it and how someone isn't allowed to, now: pot wasn't illegal, people had fun, now it's illegal. Too bad.
Anyone, not just TPU staff could sell used OEM software back then. So the rules then were equal, as they are now: nobody including staff can sell OEM software.

 

[t_ski]

That is why the white sleeve needs to be intact with the red stickers at both ends. If it isn't there, that means the software probably came with a computer or has already been used and shouldn't be sold. The white sleeve means that no one has openned the package, so none of the rules or licensing applies to them. I think that is actually why Microsoft added that sleeve in the first place.

One some of the ones I have, the red tape is under the white sleeve and only on the plastic case the DVD comes in.

 

[newtekie1]

It only takes $10~15 worth of shipping to send all three items from your side back to Newegg, while Newegg adds shipping costs of each unit (unless it has a free shipping for x quantities offer) to send those three copies to you. So ~$300 recovered. Now try selling each of those copies to three different buyers on TPU: for cost of the copy plus shipping charges. You end up at a slight but certain loss.

Anyways, we're through implementing this rule. Thanks for the discussion.
----

As a late answer to the argument of how some TPU staff could in the past get away selling it and how someone isn't allowed to, now: pot wasn't illegal, people had fun, now it's illegal. Too bad.
Anyone, not just TPU staff could sell used OEM software back then. So the rules then were equal, as they are now: nobody including staff can sell OEM software.

It isn't just the cost of shipping, it is the 15% restocking fee that newegg charges on top of that, that would be $45 right there for the 3 copies plus shipping back to them.

Yes, I could probably call them and bitch and moan and they would probably give me a full refund. However, I do about $50,000 in business with them a year. Your normal person that does next to no business with newegg might not be so fortunate. And then there are places that won't take software back no matter what...actually...I just looked, newegg won't take OEM software back at all, openned or not...so yeah, that is why I would try to sell them here instead of returning them to newegg, because newegg(and probably most other places) won't take them back.

One some of the ones I have, the red tape is under the white sleeve and only on the plastic case the DVD comes in.

Then you couldn't sell it here if they listened to me. All the latest ones have the red stickers over the white sleeve, so you can't take the sleeve off without disturbing the stickers.

 

[LAN_deRf_HA]

For the record I've never had trouble activating a used OEM. I mean really you can just keep calling and they'll keep activating it. I don't know if they have a log in their system that will cut you off at a certain point but you could potential have the same key going on many many systems... BUT selling it after activating on a system is still illegal. I'm just saying the problem isn't that it's hard to activate...

Side note - is heatware required if you're just buying? I mean I'm assuming no one is shipping crap until after they've confirmed they got their money anyways..

 

[dr emulator (madmax)]

Creating a thread in this Forum:​

If you don't have a heatware, please read all about how to get one here

the link on how to get heatware is dead

 

[t_ski]

Side note - is heatware required if you're just buying? I mean I'm assuming no one is shipping crap until after they've confirmed they got their money anyways..

It does not say for selling only, so I would go with it being required. I would highly recommend it anyways, as someone could say they are another reputable buyer and get something shipped before receiving payment. The troll could then take the parts and run, never sending payment. If you set up a heatware account and put in your aliases as suggested, then it would be easier to prevent this (forum names wouldn't match another user's heatware aliases).

I had someone try to use my heatware account on ebay, but the buyer checked it out and saw my ebay alias was not the same as what that seller was using.

 

[erocker]

View attachment 34911
the link on how to get heatware is dead

I don't see that link in the OP.

 

[Mussels]

and the link works for me anyway (its just been deleted, probably when the threads were consolidated)

 

[erocker]

and the link works for me anyway (its just been deleted, probably when the threads were consolidated)

What in the heck did he quote then?

 

[Mussels]

What in the heck did he quote then?

no idea, cant find it either

 

[Kreij]

It's in the OP.

 

[erocker]

It's in the OP.

Where?

 

[Kreij]

Under guidelines ... 14 dots down