ZOTAC GeForce GTX 465

[HalfAHertz]

i don't know about you guys but to me it all looks like some kind of a price fixing thing between ATI and Nvidia

HD5xxx series is close in performance to what Nvidia is offering. When we look at the GTX470 and GTX480 everyone looks @ power consumption that is not so much higher then ATI's ,and even that it's @ full load ,it matters for everyone that has sub i7/ddr3/ssd ect. rig but it doesn't matter for someone with pricey X58 mobo, with LGA1366 i7 cpu, and 1000kw+ PSU that GTX480 is using 50-60watts more power @ 100% load than ATI's HD5870. Nvidia did their homework, they gave people the fastest single chip solution for year 2009/2010 (so far ;]) ,and what did ATI do ? amped by 2 shader cores from their HD4890 line + DX11 (that's why Tessellation is lagging in there) , and their fastest card is not single chip solution its a dual chip 5970.

GTX470/480 may be noisier but when you have the rest of your rig specs on par with the GTX then you probably will water cool the VGA also.

I have GTX275 right now, i would gladly switch to GTX470 (lower power draw in idle then my gtx275) but not with the prices of these cards today. i think the pricing it's the only problem with Fermi based GPU today, i mean c'mon guys we don't have the same mistake like FX5800 series anymore ;], it's all about the dollar/euro now.

There is no price fixing...I would understand your suspicion if Ati and Nvidia released together and at the same time, but Nvidia had 6 months to prepare and because they couldn't compete with Ati's products due to manufacturing defects, they had to position their cards wisely - in such a way as to undermine the competition and be the better sale.

 

[phanbuey]

Yeah it looks more like ATI is keeping the prices higher because they can... 5850 is still selling above msrp. :/

 

[newtekie1]

Seems that the lab501 guys got the same "unlockable" Point Of View retail card as Guru3D.

@ W1zzard: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=253063 Could you please look into this matter?



page 20 last paragraph on the bottom

More than likely Point of View just locked GTX470 cards via the BIOS to get samples out to reviewers as quickly as possible.

W1z's sample clearly is missing the extra memory chips in his PCB shots, so there is no chance of unlocking, and this will be the case with probably all retail GTX465 cards(there might be a few that slip through into circulation that are really GTX470s, but I doubt it).

It doesn't make sense for manufacturers, who are already trying to cut costs, to artificially increase cost by including memory chips that will never be used and that aren't even supposed to be there.

 

[Mussels]

likely the review cards are just modded 470's since they lacked 465's to send for review.

Its been done before.

 

[Parad0x]

Got my POV 465 today and flashed the 470 bios. Everything is fine so far.

 

[KainXS]

sure paradox. . . . you can flash a GTX470 bios to a GTX465 but it more than likely won't do anything . . . . you got pics.

sorry dude need proof

 

[newtekie1]

And do you have pics of the PCB with the memory chips not missing?

 

[phanbuey]

question... are the memory chips linked to the disabled clusters or is it a bit like the 275 where you can have all 240 SP's with less memory?

It wont be a 470 per se... but a 470 with a gig of ram?

EDIT: there are already guides up as to how to unlock a 465 to a 470.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showpost.php?p=4413995&postcount=8

THESE DO UNLOCK. There is a high chance of bricking the card though. :/

 

[Parad0x]

Pretty sure it has 10 memory chips. It seems that the entire first batch of POVs were just 470s flashed with 465 bioses. If the screenshot above isn't enough i can make a video.

 

[Easy Rhino]

have you done any benchmarking on this to see if it actually improved performance? a lot of "unlocks" are really just on paper where the bios of the chip accepts the new information but doesnt actually change anything.

 

[OnBoard]

thats what they are claiming, that those 2 memory chips are there, when they're not supposed to, I'm talking the entire pcb including the memory.

Ah yes, seems so. That Romanian quide used one of those cards. Well then there really isn't anything to it than a new bios. Just remove cooler and see if you got the chips. W1zzard's card didn't.

Sure looks like a mix up on factory where they took a patch of blank GTX470 cards and stuck GTX 465 bios in there.

Some of us have been trying this with the cards released to reviewers prior to launch which ARE retail samples. Of the 12 cards we have tested, 4 "unlocked", 3 recognized the BIOS but didn't "unlock" and 5 are now paper weights. Nothing was going to be published for several days until we found a way to successfully flash the dead cards back to their original state. Seems like caution has once again been thrown into the wind though.

Hehee, not a nice rate, but doesn't mention if they all had extra memory or they just tried with every GTX 465 they had.

 

[Parad0x]

CPU @ 1.2GHz coz of EIST, under load it's @ 2.93

 

[newtekie1]

Ah yes, seems so. That Romanian quide used one of those cards. Well then there really isn't anything to it than a new bios. Just remove cooler and see if you got the chips. W1zzard's card didn't.

Sure looks like a mix up on factory where they took a patch of blank GTX470 cards and stuck GTX 465 bios in there.

Some of us have been trying this with the cards released to reviewers prior to launch which ARE retail samples. Of the 12 cards we have tested, 4 "unlocked", 3 recognized the BIOS but didn't "unlock" and 5 are now paper weights. Nothing was going to be published for several days until we found a way to successfully flash the dead cards back to their original state. Seems like caution has once again been thrown into the wind though.

Hehee, not a nice rate, but doesn't mention if they all had extra memory or they just tried with every GTX 465 they had.

As Mussels pointed they probably took a batch of GTX470s and just flashed them to GTX465s to get cards out to reviewers on time. Makes sense that some of that batch might have also made it into the retail channels.

I'm sure the simplest way to know if your card will flash is to check under the heatsink to make sure the extra memory chips are there, as you mention, and of course fix the horrible job they did in applying the thermal paste.

 

[pjladyfox]

I could go all day, to me the only cards out that make sense price wise are the 5770, ref model 5870 and 480 gtx. To me all the rest are not priced right.

And this really is it in a nutshell. I'm really surprised that NVIDIA did not price this more aggressively to compete and phase out their GTX 275 and 285 cards. I mean, is really anyone going to go out and pay more for a card that performs the same as the previous generation models just for DX11?

Either NVIDIA is running razor tight on the margins for the entire Fermi series forcing these prices to happen or marketing is on some really good meds thinking that people really must be THAT stupid to pay more for less. Especially when you stack onto the fact that they are STILL being very short-sighted by disabling the ability for someone to run their cards in PhysX mode with ATI video cards present. Sorry NVIDIA but whoever is making these decisions really needs to go otherwise you are starting down a path that is going to start to cost you money once the message gets out to the mainstream users you are trying to sucker.

 

[newtekie1]

I can't really see how only those three cards are priced right, and the others aren't.

I mean how is a reference HD5870 priced right, but an HD5850 only ~20% behind the HD5870 in performance but priced ~25% lower. Why would anyone consider that not priced right?

Then there is the GTX470, which is ~10% behind the HD5870, and ~10% lower in price. Seems priced right to me.

Then there is this GTX465, which is~30% behind the HD5870, and ~28% lower in price. Pretty close to being priced right to me. And as I said, I really see some obvious signs that point to some driver issues here, as this card should be outperforming a GTX285 based on the specs.

Plus, just look at the Performance per $ page, the HD5870/GTX480 both offer worse performance per $ then the GTX470, HD5850, HD5830, and even this GTX465...

 

[KainXS]

Ah yes, seems so. That Romanian quide used one of those cards. Well then there really isn't anything to it than a new bios. Just remove cooler and see if you got the chips. W1zzard's card didn't.

Sure looks like a mix up on factory where they took a patch of blank GTX470 cards and stuck GTX 465 bios in there.

Some of us have been trying this with the cards released to reviewers prior to launch which ARE retail samples. Of the 12 cards we have tested, 4 "unlocked", 3 recognized the BIOS but didn't "unlock" and 5 are now paper weights. Nothing was going to be published for several days until we found a way to successfully flash the dead cards back to their original state. Seems like caution has once again been thrown into the wind though.

Hehee, not a nice rate, but doesn't mention if they all had extra memory or they just tried with every GTX 465 they had.

probably but galaxy did the same thing with another card 2 years ago, its good to see some people will get lucky, POV's 465's will sell like hot cakes now, but I bet Nvidia is not happy right now, alot of dead cards gonna be floatin around since people will be tryin to force flash em.

 

[OnBoard]

As Mussels pointed they probably took a batch of GTX470s and just flashed them to GTX465s to get cards out to reviewers on time. Makes sense that some of that batch might have also made it into the retail channels.

I'm sure the simplest way to know if your card will flash is to check under the heatsink to make sure the extra memory chips are there, as you mention, and of course fix the horrible job they did in applying the thermal paste.

Yep, but just checked the prices and POV GTX 465 is just 30€ cheaper that cheapest GTX 470, so it's not worth it. Now if GTX 465 was selling at a lower price then yes it could be worth the risk of having a regular GTX 465

 

[newtekie1]

Yep, but just checked the prices and POV GTX 465 is just 30€ cheaper that cheapest GTX 470, so it's not worth it. Now if GTX 465 was selling at a lower price then yes it could be worth the risk of having a regular GTX 465

Definitely, I wouldn't buy a GTX465 in hopes of getting a GTX470. However, if I was planning on just getting a GTX465 to have a GTX465, I certainly would check under the hood just incase.

 

[erocker]

Yeah it looks more like ATI is keeping the prices higher because they can... 5850 is still selling above msrp. :/

I don't know for certain, but ATi's MSRP has never changed excluding the 5830 and lower. Prices are heavily influenced by the Retail market, not the manufacturer.

For me the 465 needs to be priced at the 5830 level for it to be a better competitor.

 

[SeanG]

I was going to get one of these till I seen call of duty 4 performance.I wouldnt even notice the upgrade over my 260 for almost $300.