Official AMD Radeon 6000 Series Discussion Thread

[CDdude55]

My beef is that Nvidiots are thread crapping here, discouraging people from buying a card that is frankly, awesome for the price. If they are confused about the price/name/performance they need to learn to read.

Nvidiots also have been the victim of a threepeat, yes, one card with three names. This is a new card, a whole new GPU for all intents and purposes, maybe not a revolution as much as a evolution, but still alot better than just slapping a new decal on a card and charging away like Nvidia does.

I don't think anyone denies the new line of AMD cards are good, so i don't know where these ''Nvidiots'' exactly are. And if you get discouraged by what other people say about your purchasing decisions, then you need to toughen up..

Bringing up a sudden name change that disregards the original scheme is something that can be confusing to many, though of course i do agree, this isn't Nuclear Engineering you need to comprehend, it's just a very simple change in naming.

 

[KainXS]

This is NOT ATi's first "unified" card, unfortunately. Cayman approaches that, but Barts definately does not. It is also not a major re-design..it's a minor tweak, only. Cayman is the major tweak, and based on the fact it's not out yet, it's gonna have issues.

I didn't say this was the first unified card

also dosen't this card have the 4 way medium shaders?

 

[bear jesus]

Because the real 5950 and 5970 failed, due to thier size, as did Fermi. AMD simply started development earlier than nV on the process. People complaining about the renaming, IMHO, have it backwards...The 5-series naming was screwed, not the 6-series.

There was a 5970 designed that was not a dual chip card?

also dosen't this card have the 4 way medium shaders?

As far as the reviews go i have not seen anything to say they do, i hope the 69xx cards do otherwise i will be confused and disapointed

 

[cadaveca]

The 2900XT wasn't "unified" either.The shaders were "unified", however, the cache design was, and still, is not. And no, no 4-D shaders as was rumoured.

There was a 5970 designed that was not a dual chip card?

Yes. It was a much larger chip than Cypress, and like nV, when AMD got back the initial silicon, they had to do a major change, however, the difference between the two fo them is that AMD had the time to just cancel the larger chip, while nV did not.

I did link an interview a while back discussing this chip. However, nobody seems to ahve put 2+2 together.

 

[erocker]

First benchmark of the futur 6870 is out, with a vantage score extreme = X11963, it's the cayman XT with code number 6718.
http://we.pcinlife.com/thread-1498296-1-1.html
true or not !! i don't know but the score is good.

AMD Radeon HD 6970 Results surface





Interesting, some leaked AMD Radeon 6970 (Cayman))results have surfaced,The Radeon HD 6970 (as it stands now in early days yet, without proper drivers and a proper release) looks like it will be at least 10% faster than the NVIDIA GeForce GTX480 (reference).

The card is scoring X12000 in 3D Mark Vantage, with a P score of P24499. Unigine Heaven results (1920 x 1200, 4xAA, 16xAF) giving a result of 36.6 fps.
a HD5870 scores P19337 in 3D Mark Vantage, and 17.3 fps in Heaven
a GTX480 scores P21106 in 3D Mark Vantage, and 29.5 fps in Heaven

Core speeds seem to be at around 800 - 900MHz, 6 + 8pin power requirements and an estimated TDP of 255W or more [via TweakTown via Zol.com.cn]
little high tdp :shadedshu

Top quote is from August 27th. This is old news, funny some websites are claiming it's new.

 

[pantherx12]

ahhhh so the design they took from the now 7000 series is just the dispatch processor etc set up and things like that.

So 7000 series will have this dispatch processor and 4d probably?

What would that mean for performance? ( obviously will be smaller fab by then so more shaders I imagine too)

 

[TheoneandonlyMrK]

I was led to believe the 6xxx series Did have different shaders Vec4 instead of Vec5 in the 5xxx is that not the case?

 

[cadaveca]

ahhhh so the design they took from the now 7000 series is just the dispatch processor etc set up and things like that.

So 7000 series will have this dispatch processor and 4d probably?

What would that mean for performance? ( obviously will be smaller fab by then so more shaders I imagine too)

It's hard to say what the future holds.


Remember me compaining about Crossfire not scaling, and it was due to lack of cpu grunt?

And then I just dropped it...

The answer why I dropped it, is in Barts. I recognized the problem, but not the real cause.

I was led to believe the 6xxx series Did have different shaders Vec4 instead of Vec5 in the 5xxx is that not the case?

Again, for the third time today in this thread, no, no shader change.

 

[bear jesus]

I did link an interview a while back discussing this chip. However, nobody seems to ahve put 2+2 together.

I somehow missed anything and everything to do with that chip as this is the first i have heard of it

 

[cadaveca]

I somehow missed anything and everything to do with that chip as this is the first i have heard of it

Well, here's the link.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/2937/1

Carrell reluctantly went along with the desire to build a 400+ mm2 RV870 because he believed that when engineering wakes up and realizes that this isn’t going to be cheap, they’d be having another discussion.

In early 2008, going into Februrary, TSMC started dropping hints that ATI might not want to be so aggressive on what they think 40nm is going to cost. ATI’s costs might have been, at the time, a little optimistic.

Engineering came back and said that RV870 was going to be pretty expensive and suggested looking at the configuration a second time.

Which is exactly what they did.

....


Eric was telling me about how they trimmed down 870 from over 400mm2 down to 334mm2 and how wonderful the end product was. I stopped him and asked for more detail here. I wanted an example of a feature that they had to throw out but they really wanted to keep in. Manufacturers rarely tell you what they threw out, marketing likes to focus on what’s in the chip and make everything sound like a well calculated move. Thankfully, marketing wasn’t allowed to speak at my dinner.

Eric turned to Carrell and said: “i know one feature we could talk about.”

“Sideport”.

Carrell responded, “OH MY GOD, that’s totally not fair.” (note that Carrell does not sound like a teenage girl, imagine that phrase just spoken more engineer-y).

 

[TheoneandonlyMrK]

sorry i work and stuff and it updated whilt i was typein with the 4d comment i must type slower then i thought

 

[KainXS]

so this is the same 5D architecture as the 5870 with and updated tesselator, . . . . . . . damn

so do you think the 69XX will have the 4D shaders

confused

 

[TheMailMan78]

Because the real 5950 and 5970 failed, due to their size, as did Fermi. AMD simply started development earlier than nV on the process. People complaining about the renaming, IMHO, have it backwards...The 5-series naming was screwed, not the 6-series.

I get where you are coming from but most people are about bottom line performance and numbers. Not what could have been or should have been happening behind the scenes.

The bottom line is the 68xx series replaces the 57xx series. In doing this it works perfectly. The 69xx will replace the 58xx series and that is what most people are waiting on.

Other then that I think you are right but ATI and Nvidia call the shots sadly. With that being said the 68xx is not the replacement to the 58xx. End of story. IMO.

 

[the54thvoid]

I really don't see what all the shit slinging is about.

I defer to Cadaveca's superior knowledge but as a layman...

Barts was positioned by AMD purely to counter GTX 460. Pure and simple.

The next step, being Cayman is to put the heat on Fermi GF 100. Given how well the 40nm process has been improved for efficiency and with the slight enhancements of the tesselator process over Barts that Cayman is suppossed to have, i think it will come in as quite a surprise.

I think it all comes down to what people are expecting though. I'm hoping for a card with the same performance standards as the GTX 480 (not favouring titles - i want solid equality or better) with a far greater power efficiency.

The GTX 480 is a very good card it's just too damn, well, we all know...

So a Cayman that delivers or even pips GTX 480 will be a win if it's priced right and has good thermals and acoustics.

All the hype about 20% -30% more than a GTX 480, i dont buy. As for the paper launch of the GTX 580 'next month ish' - well, it's not going to stop me buy a Cayman (that is of course if Cayman performs to my humble expectations).

 

[TheoneandonlyMrK]

your not completely right there as i stated before it was also to make room for all New APUs and to push the bottom end spec bracket up to accomodate these new parts , they still want you buying gfx cards

and thats why theyve done bottom end remix 1st as amds new secret weapon is nearly upon us

 

[cadaveca]

I get where you are coming from but most people are about bottom line performance and numbers. Not what could have been or should have been happening behind the scenes.

Ok, but everyone is complaining about exactly that, but doing so with tunnel vision, and are ignoring the big picture.


Each chip in the 6-series is placed where it is for a very good reason...and most of those reasons are things that was out of AMD's control. AMD has been running around like a chicken with it's head cut off since R600, but they've done a better job in the past of covering up thier mistakes, with low pricing, and competitive numbers.

IAll the hype about 20% -30% more than a GTX 480, i dont buy. As for the paper launch of the GTX 580 'next month ish' - well, it's not going to stop me buy a Cayman (that is of course if Cayman performs to my humble expectations).

That hype is mine, and mine only. I expect this performance, or personally consider Cayman a failure. The design, as far as I know, is capable, but many things can happen along the way.

What I'm basically saying, is any rumours that pertain to Cayman and 20-30% more performance..ignore.

 

[bear jesus]

Well, here's the link.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/2937/1

Ok i lied, i read that article before but just never took it as being the difference from 5970 to 5870, i kind of saw it more like the 480 redesign.

 

[cadaveca]

Yes, and that's the point, exactly. AMD had thier 480GTX too, but they nixed it before details about it really became public.


TSMC is really screwing with both sides...it's not like AMD has better engineering, and doesn't make mistakes...both sides do...however, the real cause of the "new" RV870, Barts, is the same cause of 480GTX's partially' functioning chip, as well as the GF104 GTX460.

Barts was poised to meet the GTX460, from day one. They are both the answer to a common problem in TSMC's process, and as such HAD to compete in pricing.

However, Barts is NOT HD6770, because it's a revamped HD5870. The name makes perfect sense, as does the pricing, and it's only the 4-D shader rumours that really have people disappointed...everyone was expecting more, when they shouldn't have. I did mention before release that the shader rumour was bunk...

 

[bear jesus]

I did mention before release that the shader rumour was bunk...

You should have said it louder... i didn't hear you i was dissapointed about the lack of a shader change but once i saw the benchmarks i was no longer dissapointed.

To be honest though i'm very happy with the 6870 as i skipped the 4xx and 5xxx cards so jumping from a 4870 to two 6870's and eyefinity (if it all decides to play nice and work out for me ) is perfect to stop me wanting to upgrade again before the end of the year so i really can't complain about barts.... untill it gets here and i start complaining about crossfire and eyefinity problems

 

[a_ump]

Ok i lied, i read that article before but just never took it as being the difference from 5970 to 5870, i kind of saw it more like the 480 redesign.

i too remember that article. Though i'm pretty sure they were talking bout the HD 5870 and what it could be, not the HD 5970.

OT: I'm betting that Cayman will release with just 10% more performance than the GTX 480 but with a lower or equal pricetag, however all its potential won't be unlocked or in use yet. Once Nvidia show's what they plan to do then AMD will decide whether to release an update of it and give even more performance to stay on top.

 

[TheoneandonlyMrK]

in that case i see me looking thru the bins round here for a 5870 i can wc and add to this one and hole up till 7xxxx joy walks yonder a ref 1 obv cos in my opinion a 5870 ocd to 1gig isnt that shabby against a 6970, i hope they pull out something better then the 30% some of you are happy with or expecting tho i went from dual 3870s to a 5870 WOW if your makin a 4xxx series leap or lower then wooo

ps can only be good more pcs capable of pissin on an xbox maybe microsoft will pull there fingers out there rears and bring something better then 540p upscaled shit they still have to the table hence raisin the bar in games from the rather poor ports of shitbox360 games

 

[cadaveca]

You should have said it louder... i didn't hear you i was dissapointed about the lack of a shader change but once i saw the benchmarks i was no longer dissapointed.

To be honest though i'm very happy with the 6870 as i skipped the 4xx and 5xxx cards so jumping from a 4870 to two 6870's and eyefinity (if it all decides to play nice and work out for me ) is perfect to stop me wanting to upgrade again before the end of the year so i really can't complain about barts.... untill it gets here and i start complaining about crossfire and eyefinity problems

I think the 6870 is a good card too...the cost is perfect, IMHO...Last-gen's high-end performance, but at mainstream pricing. To me, to offer twice the performance as the last gen, it would be similarily priced...@ $429+.

Unfortunately, as a high-end user, the product itself doesn't appeal to me, but it was never meant to anyway.

i too remember that article. Though i'm pretty sure they were talking bout the HD 5870 and what it could be, not the HD 5970.

They weren't, though. That's just the spin marketing has put on it. The best part of it all is that I was asking for a 2560 shader chip(one shader per pixel)...and they almost did it...sideport and all...yet another thing I was looking for in the 5-series, but noone else was.

 

[the54thvoid]

The best part of it all is that I was asking for a 2560 shader chip(one shader per pixel)...and they almost did it...sideport and all...yet another thing I was looking for in the 5-series, but noone else was.

Well, if you promise to buy enough to make it profitable, i'm sure they'll make it for you.

 

[bear jesus]

Unfortunately, as a high-end user, the product itself doesn't appeal to me, but it was never meant to anyway.

Hey i was a high end user as well.... like 2 years ago but i just could not take it anymore i need a couple 6870's to hold me over untill something powerful enough to run games over 3 monitors with maxed settings on one card comes out.
I'm hoping that will be a 6970 and if not i really hope nvidia let the 580 run 3 monitors on one card and that it is up to the task.

 

[cadaveca]

Well, if you promise to buy enough to make it profitable, i'm sure they'll make it for you.

The current customer they are trying to please is the console makers. nV has already luanched the beginning of that chip, but I'm pretty sure AMD has not(as current chips are still based off of the current console gpu).

Find out what console makers want, and you'll know what the 7-series and the next-gen nV chips will be.

Hey i was a high end user as well.... like 2 years ago but i just could not take it anymore i need a couple 6870's to hold me over untill something powerful enough to run games over 3 monitors with maxed settings on one card comes out.
I'm hoping that will be a 6970 and if not i really hope nvidia let the 580 run 3 monitors on one card and that it is up to the task.

I've been buying every card on launch day for like 6-7 years now. This launch is the first that I am ignoring. I'm gonna spend my money playing with Intel chips...I won't buy another card until I can get 3 monitors working together in a single card, with 120+FPS(for 3D), and 4xAA.