Bulldozer 50% Faster than Core i7 and Phenom II

Loosenut · Jan 14, 2011

jmcslob said:
//rant//

Ive pretty much been an AMD Fanboi due to Intel's ridiculous amount of Platform changes However AMDs best chips are competing with stuff Intel released 2 years ago and now to go forward with AMD you have to go to a new Platform...

Yes you can use AM3 cpus on a AM3+ board but as far as Ive seen there isn't any other reason to upgrade to an AM3+ board unless your buying a AM3+ cpu.

So unless AMD can give some type of reason not to switch brands and fast as you have to do a Platform change I can't see any reason to stick with them...

As of now Intel has the best bang for the buck......

AMD needs to get something out and SOON or at the very least they need to get some samples out for review...

//end rant//

I'm sorry but I must disagree with you on that one.

If you're low on funds as I am but would like to upgrade, this is perfect. I can now buy an AM3+ board to use my current cpu and later when more funds become available, get Bulldozer

CDdude55 · Jan 14, 2011

Loosenut said:
I'm sorry but I must disagree with you on that one.

If you're low on funds as I am but would like to upgrade, this is perfect. I can now buy an AM3+ board to use my current cpu and later when more funds become available, get Bulldozer

Agreed, and that's exactly what i plan to do when AM3+ boards come out.

(if they're within my price range)

alexsubri · Jan 14, 2011

Loosenut said:
I'm sorry but I must disagree with you on that one.

If you're low on funds as I am but would like to upgrade, this is perfect. I can now buy an AM3+ board to use my current cpu and later when more funds become available, get Bulldozer

I'm on a budget too --that's why I went with AMD

AM2/AM3 backwards compatible FTW :rockout:

bear jesus · Jan 14, 2011

I have an AM2+ board and bought an AM3 phenom II specifically to buy an AM3 board in the future, i had my eye on the asus crosshair iv extreme but it took so long to come out i thought i should just wait for sandy bridge and bulldozer to come out and upgrade then.

As I'm on an AM2+ board I'm using DDR2 so an AM3+ board would let me get some DDR3 and hopefully a better clocking north bridge for a while and if it's worth it an 8 core bulldozer when i feel like it.

It seams keeping AM3 cpu's compatible with the new boards will keep a lot of people happy.

Deleted member 67555 · Jan 15, 2011

Loosenut said:
I'm sorry but I must disagree with you on that one.

If you're low on funds as I am but would like to upgrade, this is perfect. I can now buy an AM3+ board to use my current cpu and later when more funds become available, get Bulldozer

Well if your on a budget I suggest not buying any of those boards until the BD line is out and you see the performance of them....

I'm on AM3 on 3 systems and I don't see any reason to upgrade to the AM3+ boards over the AM3 boards that is unless
1) Bulldozer is competing with Sandy bridge or doing better
2) Cheap

Sorry but for someone that already has an AM3 board this is a tough sale
I just can't see switching when you would also need an AM3+ CPU to gain any benefit

So unless I see some Benches from some reliable sources that suggest a major advance over the competitions current lineup I couldn't justify my next build being AMD...

newtekie1 · Jan 15, 2011

Loosenut said:
I'm sorry but I must disagree with you on that one.

If you're low on funds as I am but would like to upgrade, this is perfect. I can now buy an AM3+ board to use my current cpu and later when more funds become available, get Bulldozer

Yes, but what is the point in upgrading just the motherboard? It will add little performance to no performance or features, and you pay more for it then you would if you waited 6 months until you had the cash for the motherboard and processor.

It is an unneeded upgrade that you would be doing for no other reason than to be able to say you did it. People truly low on funds don't do that.

JF-AMD · Jan 15, 2011

Bo$$ said:
are these performance increase a average or a specific task?

The only performance statement that we have made is for server, and you cannot make client performance assumptions based on that.

Aleksander Dishnica said:
That is in my brain server too
Benches!!!!!! PLSSSSSSS!!!!!

at launch.

wahdangun · Jan 15, 2011

JF-AMD said:
The only performance statement that we have made is for server, and you cannot make client performance assumptions based on that.

at launch.

so its true that bulldozer will be faster than magny cours ?

and btw is it true that AMD bring back FX line ? because if its true then i can't wait to buy it

Melvis · Jan 15, 2011

newtekie1 said:
Yes, but what is the point in upgrading just the motherboard? It will add little performance to no performance or features, and you pay more for it then you would if you waited 6 months until you had the cash for the motherboard and processor.

It is an unneeded upgrade that you would be doing for no other reason than to be able to say you did it. People truly low on funds don't do that.

Doesn't mean to say that he will have the funds for both at that time ether. If going by what the rumors are saying these new CPU's arnt going to be cheap, so it would make sense to get a board now and then when the CPU's come out decide on what one he can afford.

At least he will be ready for Bulldozer and can sit back and wait for the CPU that fits his needs/budget the most.

bear jesus · Jan 15, 2011

I think there is one major point being missed here, we all love playing with new toys so it does not matter if there is a performance increase with just a new board then waiting to get a CPU later, it's new and shiny and we want to play with it :roll:

Thatguy · Jan 15, 2011

newtekie1 said:
Yes, but what is the point in upgrading just the motherboard? It will add little performance to no performance or features, and you pay more for it then you would if you waited 6 months until you had the cash for the motherboard and processor.

It is an unneeded upgrade that you would be doing for no other reason than to be able to say you did it. People truly low on funds don't do that.

I have a thuban on a am2+ and I wan to migrate to a new socket, I am waiting for am3+ boards which seem a bit late in comming. this way I can stretch my thuban a bit further and the stepup to a BD when the time is right.

As to the FX line. If they drop these in like q4 2011 or q1 2012 I suspect they might be on 28nm and will be a refresh. I wonder if they are already spinning silicon now to see how that might go. Especially with the glo-fo 28nm announcements.

This would also give them timeto make whatever tweak and get some early testing in on bulk 28nm that should be comming 2012 1h.

Thatguy · Jan 15, 2011

bear jesus said:
I think there is one major point being missed here, we all love playing with new toys so it does not matter if there is a performance increase with just a new board then waiting to get a CPU later, it's new and shiny and we want to play with it

I was into build fast cars for a long time, fast computers are much cheaper and not nearly as dangerous.

newtekie1 · Jan 15, 2011

Melvis said:
Doesn't mean to say that he will have the funds for both at that time ether. If going by what the rumors are saying these new CPU's arnt going to be cheap, so it would make sense to get a board now and then when the CPU's come out decide on what one he can afford.

At least he will be ready for Bulldozer and can sit back and wait for the CPU that fits his needs/budget the most.

Thatguy said:
I have a thuban on a am2+ and I wan to migrate to a new socket, I am waiting for am3+ boards which seem a bit late in comming. this way I can stretch my thuban a bit further and the stepup to a BD when the time is right.

As to the FX line. If they drop these in like q4 2011 or q1 2012 I suspect they might be on 28nm and will be a refresh. I wonder if they are already spinning silicon now to see how that might go. Especially with the glo-fo 28nm announcements.

This would also give them timeto make whatever tweak and get some early testing in on bulk 28nm that should be comming 2012 1h.

Yes, but again that makes no sense. If you truly are worried about money, it makes no sense to pay more for a board now instead of waiting and usually paying less for the same board a few months later when you actually have the money for both the board and processor. Upgrading just the board now gains you nothing, it isn't necessary, so why do it? So you can tweak it? Well that doesn't make any sense, because you'll just have to re-tweak it with the new CPU. So you can play with something new? Well we do like doing that, but those of use that are really worried about money don't waste it just to play with something new...

Loosenut · Jan 15, 2011

jmcslob said:
Well if your on a budget I suggest not buying any of those boards until the BD line is out and you see the performance of them....

newtekie1 said:
Yes, but what is the point in upgrading just the motherboard? It will add little performance to no performance or features, and you pay more for it then you would if you waited 6 months until you had the cash for the motherboard and processor.

newtekie1 said:
Yes, but again that makes no sense. If you truly are worried about money, it makes no sense to pay more for a board now instead of waiting and usually paying less for the same board a few months later when you actually have the money for both the board and processor. Upgrading just the board now gains you nothing, it isn't necessary, so why do it? So you can tweak it? Well that doesn't make any sense, because you'll just have to re-tweak it with the new CPU. So you can play with something new? Well we do like doing that, but those of use that are really worried about money don't waste it just to play with something new...

1- It calms the upgrade itch
2- more than likely going to be less expensive than SB
3- gonna have to upgrade one day anyways, right?

Melvis · Jan 15, 2011

newtekie1 said:
Yes, but again that makes no sense. If you truly are worried about money, it makes no sense to pay more for a board now instead of waiting and usually paying less for the same board a few months later when you actually have the money for both the board and processor. Upgrading just the board now gains you nothing, it isn't necessary, so why do it? So you can tweak it? Well that doesn't make any sense, because you'll just have to re-tweak it with the new CPU. So you can play with something new? Well we do like doing that, but those of use that are really worried about money don't waste it just to play with something new...

Maybe you should read the posts again^ its already been explained, so don't ask why.

And lets get real here, a board is going to drop how much in the next 6moths realy? $20? at most? So it makes perfect sense to get a board now IF your funds do not go far enough for both parts, mobo and CPU, and like i said before im pretty sure these CPU's arnt going to be cheap, unless you know different?

newtekie1 · Jan 15, 2011

Loosenut said:
1- It calms the upgrade itch
2- more than likely going to be less expensive than SB
3- gonna have to upgrade one day anyways, right?

1- Calming the upgrade itch doesn't matter for people that worry about money.
2- The price of SandyBridge doesn't matter one bit here.
3- Correct, but spending money now for no improvement doesn't make sense. Spend all the money at once when you can afford the processor as well.

Melvis said:
Maybe you should read the posts again^ its already been explained, so don't ask why.

And lets get real here, a board is going to drop how much in the next 6moths realy? $20? at most? So it makes perfect sense to get a board now IF your funds do no go far enough for both parts, mobo and CPU, and like i said before im pretty sure these CPU's arnt going to be cheap, unless you know different?

In 6 months? $50-60 at least, depending on the board. It does not make perfect sense to upgrade just the motherboard. Again, you point was about people that don't have a lot of money, but you don't want to save money. Even if it is $20, $20 is $20. There is no point in spending that $20 now just to upgrade the motherboard which gains you nothing. It doesn't matter what the processors will cost, your out of pocket expense will be the same. So your logic is faulty. The cost of the processor means nothing.

I'll lay it out for you so you understand.

If you have $200 now, and the board you want costs $200 now. So you buy the board now. You now have $0. In six months you make another $800, Bulldozer costs $800. So buy a Bulldozer processor. Your total out of pocket cost is $1000.

or

If you have $200 now, and the board you want costs $200 now. You don't buy the motherboard now, instead you save the $200.(Yes, that is possible.). You continue to get the same performance as if you bought the new motherboard. In six months you make another $800, you now have $1000. Bulldozer costs $800. The motherboard has dropped in price to $180. You buy both at the same time, your total out of pocket cost is $980. You get to buy some beer with that extra $20...WIN!!!

See, the price of the processor doesn't matter, that is a constant that you have to pay no matter what. So it is faulty logic to argue that the processor will be expensive, so you should buy the motherboard now. The only time that makes sense is if the concept of saving money doesn't exist...but it does.

Melvis · Jan 15, 2011

If you say so^

Mussels · Jan 15, 2011

newtekie1 said:
1- Calming the upgrade itch doesn't matter for people that worry about money.
2- The price of SandyBridge doesn't matter one bit here.
3- Correct, but spending money now for no improvement doesn't make sense. Spend all the money at once when you can afford the processor as well.

In 6 months? $50-60 at least, depending on the board. It does not make perfect sense to upgrade just the motherboard. Again, you point was about people that don't have a lot of money, but you don't want to save money. Even if it is $20, $20 is $20. There is no point in spending that $20 now just to upgrade the motherboard which gains you nothing. It doesn't matter what the processors will cost, your out of pocket expense will be the same. So your logic is faulty. The cost of the processor means nothing.

I'll lay it out for you so you understand.

If you have $200 now, and the board you want costs $200 now. So you buy the board now. You now have $0. In six months you make another $800, Bulldozer costs $800. So buy a Bulldozer processor. Your total out of pocket cost is $1000.

or

If you have $200 now, and the board you want costs $200 now. You don't buy the motherboard now, instead you save the $200.(Yes, that is possible.). You continue to get the same performance as if you bought the new motherboard. In six months you make another $800, you now have $1000. Bulldozer costs $800. The motherboard has dropped in price to $180. You buy both at the same time, your total out of pocket cost is $980. You get to buy some beer with that extra $20...WIN!!!

See, the price of the processor doesn't matter, that is a constant that you have to pay no matter what. So it is faulty logic to argue that the processor will be expensive, so you should buy the motherboard now. The only time that makes sense is if the concept of saving money doesn't exist...but it does.

counter plan. that i actually did.

Buy cheap motherboard (785G in my case) and cheap CPU for socket (since i had none at the time - reuse old one here if applicable)

save money. buy new CPU (thuban for me), other CPU becomes spare.

buy new motherboard (in my case, went to DDR3 as well)

suddenly - old CPU and budget mobo (and in my case, the ram) are free. damn, second PC to sell and offset the cost (or, become my HTPC)

newtekie1 · Jan 15, 2011

Melvis said:
If you say so^

You don't?

You say "why" is because the processor will be expensive, so explain why that matters. Is your out of pocket cost less if you buy the board months before the processor? Does that logic make sense to you?

Mussels said:
counter plan. that i actually did.

Buy cheap motherboard (785G in my case) and cheap CPU for socket (since i had none at the time - reuse old one here if applicable)

save money. buy new CPU (thuban for me), other CPU becomes spare.

buy new motherboard (in my case, went to DDR3 as well)

suddenly - old CPU and budget mobo (and in my case, the ram) are free. damn, second PC to sell and offset the cost (or, become my HTPC)

How do you figure they were free? Because you had them left over at the end? That doesn't make them free, it just means you paid for extra shit you didn't need. Was your overall out of pocket expense the same by buying the cheap board and processor first as it would have been by just buying what you ended up with up front?

Deleted member 67555 · Jan 15, 2011

Loosenut said:
1- It calms the upgrade itch
2- more than likely going to be less expensive than SB
3- gonna have to upgrade one day anyways, right?

Yes but does it put the lotion on it's skin...

I feel you But as Newteckie said the prices always fall dramatically within a month or two

Melvis · Jan 15, 2011

newtekie1 said:
You don't?

You say "why" is because the processor will be expensive, so explain why that matters. Is your out of pocket cost less if you buy the board months before the processor? Does that logic make sense to you?

Well of course it will be expensive, don't you think it will be?

Illl say it for the third time, IF his budget does NOT cover for both a mobo and a CPU then it makes SENSE to buy a mobo now that can handle future CPU's (Bulldozer) so there for WHEN the CPU's come out, then he can decide on what one he wants and affords, its just plain common sense, shit even id do the same.

And come on how is he out of pocket? hello he would be buying one anyway so there for why not get it in stages IF thats how he can afford it.

He might have lots of bills or whatever,and not have enough cash at that time to afford both, it doesn't matter, its up to the individual and in this case this is the way HE can make it work.

newtekie1 · Jan 15, 2011

Melvis said:
Well of course it will be expensive, don't you think it will be?

Again, I never said the processor wouldn't be expensive. I'm saying it doesn't matter. The cost of the CPU is fixed no matter what. So it being expensive doesn't matter.

Melvis said:
Illl say it for the third time, IF his budget does NOT cover for both a mobo and a CPU then it makes SENSE to buy a mobo now that can handle future CPU's (Bulldozer) so there for WHEN the CPU's come out, then he can decide on what one he wants and affords, its just plain common sense, shit even id do the same.

And I'll say again, it makes no sense to upgrade from the perfectly functional motherboard he has now. There is no reason to do this. If he was building a new machine from scratch, yes it would make sense, but that isn't what we are talking about. We are talking about a situation where he already has a fully functional motherboard working with the processor he already has and wants to continue to use.

Melvis said:
And come on how is he out of pocket? hello he would be buying one anyway so there for why not get it in stages IF thats how he can afford it.

Again, it is called saving. If you've got the money for the board now, you have the money for the board in 6 months, and the parts get cheaper in time. So if you are that concerned with the money, it only makes sense to buy the motherboard when you actually need it, and not as soon as you can afford it to replace a motherboard that is already working perfectly.

Melvis said:
He might have lots of bills or whatever,and not have enough cash at that time to afford both, it doesn't matter, its up to the individual and in this case this is the way HE can make it work.

Again, there is this new concept, I'm not sure if you've heard of it, it is called saving your money. :banghead:

If he has the money now, he'll have it in 6 months, so he will have the money to afford both.

Melvis · Jan 15, 2011

newtekie1 said:
Again, I never said the processor wouldn't be expensive. I'm saying it doesn't matter. The cost of the CPU is fixed no matter what. So it being expensive doesn't matter.

What??? But that is the point we are trying to put across^ :wtf:

newtekie1 said:
And I'll say again, it makes no sense to upgrade from the perfectly functional motherboard he has now. There is no reason to do this. If he was building a new machine from scratch, yes it would make sense, but that isn't what we are talking about. We are talking about a situation where he already has a fully functional motherboard working with the processor he already has.

Yes he might have a perfectly good mobo now, but the point is he wants to upgrade to bulldozer and this way is the cheapest option for him at this stage. And he wont be building a new machine from scratch, it wont be needed, so once again a mobo is the best option at this stage cost willing.

newtekie1 said:
Again, it is called saving. If you've got the money for the board now, you have the money for the board in 6 months, and the parts get cheaper in time. So if you are that concerned with the money, it only makes sense to buy the motherboard when you actually need it, and not as soon as you can afford it to replace a motherboard that is already working perfectly.

Again that's YOUR view, its a good view dont get me wrong, but some people can not do this, and can only make a purchase with what they have got at that time.

newtekie1 said:
Again, there is this new concept, I'm not sure if you've heard of it, it is called saving your money. If he has the money now, he'll have it in 6 months, so he will have the money to afford both.

Again your view, just remember not everyone out there can save that amount of money for both partsm good for you if you can, congrades, but come on, we trying to help out someone that cant afford both that would like to move to the new Skt and the way he said is indeed the most common sense direction.

newtekie1 · Jan 15, 2011

Melvis said:
What??? But that is the point we are trying to put across^

You've failed at it. In fact, you have yet to even provide any point about why the processor being expensive matters.

Melvis said:
Yes he might have a perfectly good mobo now, but the point is he wants to upgrade to bulldozer and this way is the cheapest option for him at this stage. And he wont be building a new machine from scratch, it wont be needed, so once again a mobo is the best option at this stage cost willing.

How is paying more money cheaper? The best/cheapest option at this stage is doing nothing, and saving the money. Then buy the board and processor at the same time. The processor price doesn't matter because it is the same no matter what. And again, if he has $200 now, he could stick that $200 under the mattres and he will still have it in 6 months when he can afford the processor.

Melvis said:
Again that's YOUR view, its a good view dont get me wrong, but some people can not do this, and can only make a purchase with what they have got at that time.

Some people can't do this? I'm pretty sure everyone can save money that they already have. Why exactly would someone not be able to save the $200 they have?

Melvis said:
Again your view, just remember not everyone out there can save that amount of money for both partsm good for you if you can, congrades, but come on, we trying to help out someone that cant afford both that would like to move to the new Skt and the way he said is indeed the most common sense direction.

Yes, everyone can save. Some people might not like it, but everyone can save money. It isn't going to disappear if it isn't spent instantly, I assure you.

Melvis · Jan 15, 2011

newtekie1 said:
You've failed at it. In fact, you have yet to even provide any point about why the processor being expensive matters.

No sir you have failed at it, you have not seen that it would cost more at that time to buy both, would it not? So please do not make me explain again. This all means something because he can not afford both, thats the point.

newtekie1 said:
How is paying more money cheaper? The best/cheapest option at this stage is doing nothing, and saving the money. Then buy the board and processor at the same time. The processor price doesn't matter because it is the same no matter what. And again, if he has $200 now, he could stick that $200 under the mattres and he will still have it in 6 months when he can afford the processor.

I have already explained this before, go read it back there^ and make sure this time to READ it.
Also it doesnt mean he will have that cash, i think your just saying this how you would do it with your finances? Im saying this for the people that cant do it all in one hit, hell isnt this WHY AMD made these motherboards compatible for the older CPU's?

newtekie1 said:
Some people can't do this? I'm pretty sure everyone can save money that they already have. Why exactly would someone not be able to save the $200 they have?

Im not sure what world you live in, but im sorry not all people have this luxury.

newtekie1 said:
Yes, everyone can save. Some people might not like it, but everyone can save money. It isn't going to disappear if it isn't spent instantly, I assure you.

As above^

System Name	Loose nuts & bolts
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Audio Device(s)	on board
Power Supply	Corsair HX850
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Audio Device(s)	Onboard (It sounds fine)
Power Supply	Corsair 850TX
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System Name	2K Gamer
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Storage	64gb sandisk pulse SSD and 500gb HDD // 500gb HDD
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Processor	Intel Core i7 10850K@5.2GHz
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System Name	Night Rider \| Mini LAN PC \| Workhorse
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Motherboard	MSi AM4 Pro Carbon \| GA- \| Gigabyte EX58-UD5
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Case	Fractal Design R6
Audio Device(s)	Logitech G560 \| Corsair Void pro RGB \|Blue Yeti mic
Power Supply	Fractal Ion+ 2 860W (Platinum) (This thing is God-tier. Silent and TINY)
Mouse	Logitech G Pro wireless + Steelseries Prisma XL
Keyboard	Razer Huntsman TE ( Sexy white keycaps)
VR HMD	Oculus Rift S + Quest 2
Software	Windows 11 pro x64 (Yes, it's genuinely a good OS) OpenRGB - ditch the branded bloatware!
Benchmark Scores	Nyooom.

Bulldozer 50% Faster than Core i7 and Phenom II

Crazy 4 TPU!!!

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