Is downloading and playing the leaked Crysis 2 legal?

[HammerON]

There seem to be two questions here:

1 Legality: no, as defined by law in most places, it's not legal.
2 Morality: is it really so bad to do it? Does it cause the software house financial damage or whip up interest? These are grey areas and can be discussed for hours without any conclusion. The fact is that copyright law has been skewed heavily in creator's interests, because they're rich and powerful.

Finally, having a so-called "pirate" copy is not stealing, no matter how big media corporations try to spin it. It's infringement, which is different. You are simply going against their wishes.

The basic difference is that if you take a physical item, the owner no longer has it. If you take a digital copy, you both have it. That's why it's a copy. Therefore you haven't stolen it. If you were to move the file from their computers to yours, that would be stealing, because they no longer have it.

Two great sites that talk about all this are:

www.p2pnet.net

www.techdirt.com

Interesting and thanks for the links

 

[Mussels]

hmm.. Your argument/analogy is weak 1st and for most... Knowledge of a crime is the same as committing the crime IMO..

except that to my knowledge, its NOT a crime here.

 

[HammerON]

except that to my knowledge, its NOT a crime here.

This is something that is opening my eyes a bit...
Different countries and cultures have different laws. What makes something right or wrong in the country I live in does not make it the same globaly. But when you go to the basic value of what is right and what is wrong, what is the answer?

 

[DaedalusHelios]

It is illegal as it is intellectual property that you do not own and have not paid for the rights to use it before the release date. Law isn't written with fairness in mind. It is purchased with riders attached.

Intellectual property law is in effect almost completely worldwide in all UN recognized countries. Punishments vary greatly but they are inflated sentences/punishments because of the amount money that goes into paying off politicians to legislate these laws. If you pirate huge amounts of intellectual property(copyrighted material) you will have a heavier sentence than getting drunk and killing someone with your car in the USA. Assuming you get max sentencing and you actually get caught with all the material. It is idiotic but there is nothing we can really do about it. If you are worried about it and you are a pirate then you could use a medium like IRC to get it. I have never heard of someone getting caught pulling material from IRC servers. If you have heard of a case where someone did get caught using it then please let me know so I can research it further.

 

[Mr McC]

This is something that is opening my eyes a bit...
Different countries and cultures have different laws. What makes something right or wrong in the country I live in does not make it the same globaly. But when you go to the basic value of what is right and what is wrong, what is the answer?

That depends on whether you subscribe to the point of view of Socrates or the sophists: a universal single Good or a Good that is variously defined depending on location and context?

 

[Mussels]

That depends on whether you subscribe to the point of view of Socrates or the sophists: a universal single Good or a Good that is variously defined depending on location and context?

now thats a good response. I adhere to the varying good idea completely.

 

[the54thvoid]

It is illegal as it is intellectual property. Intellectual property law is in effect almost completely worldwide in all UN recognized countries. Punishments vary greatly but they are inflated sentences/punishments because of the amount money that goes into paying off politicians to legislate these laws. If you pirate huge amounts of intellectual property(copyrighted material) you will have a heavier sentence than getting drunk and killing someone with your car in the USA. Assuming you get max sentencing and you actually get caught with all the material. It is idiotic but there is nothing we can really do about it.

I was about to mention the intellectual property thing. If the work in progress (the project and development of Crysis 2) is protected under any copyright or IP laws, then yes, it is illegal to obtain without consent of the owner.

Irrespective of Piracy (and the non-payment issue) somone's property has been 'stolen' or is being 'handled' by persons knowingly.

Yes it's a crime. But who cares? EA suck.

Is it immoral? (rant following - read at your peril)

No, dont be so dumb. Morality is an essence of culture, not the law. As an atheist i find the justification of war for religious reasons abhorrent yet it is morally defined as 'Jihad' by some strict Muslims. Likewise, some right wing christians kill Abortion doctors as they believe their act is moral under the 'eye for and eye' nonsense of christian faith. Honour killings where woman who dare not marry through their 'arranged' practises are killed by their family in some asian cultures - immoral to me - not to them.

No, leave morailty out of it.

 

[streetfighter 2]

I don't see how stealing part of a game is morally correct

I never said that it was. I was saying, is it morally dubious?

I believe it is wrong to pirate the Crysis 2 beta. I also have the opinion that pirating the Crysis 2 beta does not have a known effect on the potential success of the game. Nagging in the back of my head is also the thought that the next Will Wright/Hideo Kojima might just pirate that game and be inspired to become the greatest developer of all time. It's not impossible. . .

The basic difference is that if you take a physical item, the owner no longer has it. If you take a digital copy, you both have it. That's why it's a copy. Therefore you haven't stolen it. If you were to move the file from their computers to yours, that would be stealing, because they no longer have it.

According to the FBI breach of copyright is IP theft, which is tantamount to "stealing".
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/cyber/ipr/ipr

Sure it isn't stealing in the traditional sense, but I hate for a discussion about ethics to be caught up in semantics.

@ btarunr - USA laws are a little different:

Do I have to register with your office to be protected?
No. In general, registration is voluntary. Copyright exists from the moment the work is created. You will have to register, however, if you wish to bring a lawsuit for infringement of a U.S. work. See Circular 1, Copyright Basics, section “Copyright Registration.”
. . .
When is my work protected?
Your work is under copyright protection the moment it is created and fixed in a tangible form that it is perceptible either directly or with the aid of a machine or device.

http://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-general.html#mywork

 

[btarunr]

Crysis 2 isn't even released, there's no copyright in place, there's no EULA in place.

It's not like someone got hold of a final copyright/EULA-bound copy, pirated it violating the EULA, and uploaded it.

You can take a laptop running the leaked Crysis 2 to EA CEO's chamber and tell him "I'm running the leaked Crysis 2, bitch!", and he will be in no position to act on you (on grounds of copyright infringement).

 

[HammerON]

Crysis 2 isn't even released, there's no copyright in place, there's no EULA in place.

It's not like someone got hold of a final copyright/EULA-bound copy, pirated it violating the EULA, and uploaded it.

You can take a laptop running the leaked Crysis 2 to EA CEO's chamber and tell him "I'm running the leaked Crysis 2, bitch!", and he will be in no position to act on you.

Even though there was no "license agreement" available when this (leaked) game was downloaded does not mean that there was not an "implied agreement" that a responsible person would agree existed. How many companies would include this exclusion in a "Alpha" build of a game they are developing? And should they state such?

 

[DaedalusHelios]

Crysis 2 isn't even released, there's no copyright in place, there's no EULA in place.

It's not like someone got hold of a final copyright/EULA-bound copy, pirated it violating the EULA, and uploaded it.

You can take a laptop running the leaked Crysis 2 to EA CEO's chamber and tell him "I'm running the leaked Crysis 2, bitch!", and he will be in no position to act on you.

Intellectual property law still covers it in the USA. I can't speak for India though. Nobody in their right mind would prosecute it in the USA so it is not like you would have something to worry about. I thought the debate was more theoretical than anything.

I was about to mention the intellectual property thing. If the work in progress (the project and development of Crysis 2) is protected under any copyright or IP laws, then yes, it is illegal to obtain without consent of the owner.

Irrespective of Piracy (and the non-payment issue) somone's property has been 'stolen' or is being 'handled' by persons knowingly.

Yes it's a crime. But who cares? EA suck.

Is it immoral? (rant following - read at your peril)

No, dont be so dumb. Morality is an essence of culture, not the law. As an atheist i find the justification of war for religious reasons abhorrent yet it is morally defined as 'Jihad' by some strict Muslims. Likewise, some right wing christians kill Abortion doctors as they believe their act is moral under the 'eye for and eye' nonsense of christian faith. Honour killings where woman who dare not marry through their 'arranged' practises are killed by their family in some asian cultures - immoral to me - not to them.

No, leave morailty out of it.

'Eye for an eye' is an Old Testament philosophy(Judaism's main holy book) that was thrown out in Christianity thanks to the New Testament(Christianity's main holy book) from what I have read. I too am an Atheist but I don't really think religion has anything to do with a universal morality that we can all follow. Religion would just pervert it because there is more than one and they don't all even remotely agree with each other. Law and religion should be kept separate and law should simply protect your right to express religion. That is provided that a religious practice isn't detrimental to society or infringing on anyone else's rights.

I will say that is way off topic though. lol

 

[btarunr]

Intellectual property law still covers it in the USA. I can't speak for India though. Nobody in their right mind would prosecute it in the USA so it is not like you would have something to worry about. I thought the debate was more theoretical than anything.

What I'm saying is that the leaked Crysis 2 build isn't registered as EA property, yet, it's not a rip of the final product. Whoever leaked the build to the internet is clearly someone from within EA, and what was leaked had no EULA or DRM that the user had to abide by.

 

[HammerON]

Poll currently is 40 "Not legal" to 8 "Legal".

 

[qubit]

According to the FBI breach of copyright is IP theft, which is tantamount to "stealing".
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/cyber/ipr/ipr

Sure it isn't stealing in the traditional sense, but I hate for a discussion about ethics to be caught up in semantics.

Of course the FBI will define it that way. They are at one with Big Business that has told them to define it that way, with bribes and corruption. Just look at the RIAA/MPAA types that have weaseled their way into the highest levels of the American government.

However, in truth, it remains an infringement, not stealing, as I explained above.

 

[HammerON]

What I'm saying is that the leaked Crysis 2 build isn't registered as EA property, yet, it's not a rip of the final product. Whoever leaked the build to the internet is clearly someone from within EA, and what was leaked had no EULA or DRM that the user had to abide by.

So because it is not registered and did not have EULA or DRM it makes it okay to download and play the game? Was Crytek to know that a leaked early version was to hit the internet and it is their fault for not taking every precaution possible?

 

[the54thvoid]

'Eye ... was thrown out .... thanks to ...a universal morality. .. pervert ...should be ...provided ... to society.

Is what i just did 'moral'?, 'criminal' or 'art'?

Nah, I'm just playing with you. At least read what i've selectively quoted in a Stephen Hawkings voice and it sounds funny (to me). I agree with your post

 

[btarunr]

So because it is not registered and did not have EULA or DRM it makes it okay to download and play the game? Was Crytek to know that a leaked early version was to hit the internet and it is their fault for not taking every precaution possible?

That's an ethics issue, not a legal issue.

Each time you play unreleased-incomplete-crysis2-build, an alien kitten dies on the Lingshan island.

 

[streetfighter 2]

Of course the FBI will define it that way. They are at one with Big Business that has told them to define it that way, with bribes and corruption. Just look at the RIAA/MPAA types that have weaseled their way into the highest levels of the American government.

However, in truth, it remains an infringement, not stealing, as I explained above.

I was trying to find a precedent from the Judicial branch as well and I found one:
http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/index.cfm?ty=pbdetail&iid=998

Criminal intellectual property theft offenses include copyright and trademark infringement and theft of trade secrets.

It appears that Intellectual Property Theft (aka "stealing software", aka "copyright infringement") is defined in legal vernacular. . .

This may be due to the urging of the FBI and constant bribes from the RIAA/MPAA, but it is nevertheless a fact we should be aware of and it has little (if any) effect on the original argument. Also I'm sure you're aware that the White House is quite fond of the term "Intellectual Property Theft".

Oh and sorry but I just realized this doesn't relate to your native country. I'm merely pointing out that in the courts of the USA copyright infringement is a form of theft (stealing). This doesn't necessarily pertain to the UK.

 

[DaedalusHelios]

What I'm saying is that the leaked Crysis 2 build isn't registered as EA property, yet, it's not a rip of the final product. Whoever leaked the build to the internet is clearly someone from within EA, and what was leaked had no EULA or DRM that the user had to abide by.

My understanding is that all work done by workers in agreement with EA, is the property of EA. Even early prototypes of products are covered by intellectual property law in the USA from what I understand. EULA's and DRM do not have to be in place for something to be corporate property as far as I know. That all being said, it is not like they are going to prosecute people passing it around on the internet.

 

[The Witcher]

To be really honest, I think that downloading a pirated game is "morally" wrong, I don't care about Man-made laws because they are not reliable and often influnced by lobbies or certain groups to fulfill their goals.

From my own precpective everyone who downloaded a pirated game had somekind of reason to justify downloading it. Personally, when I used to download pirated games I simply didn't care about laws or morals, but when I grew older (I'm 20 yo) I started to see how wrong it is..still I tried to download Crysis 2 leaked beta because I wanted to see it and I'm 100% sure that I was going to buy it, this is just me, I'm not trying to encourage anyone or say that what I used to do is "Right".

Another point is that Crysis 2 leaked beta is incomplete so I don't see why some people are so pisst off ?! Beside most of the people who are going to pirate Crysis 2 weren't going to buy it in the first place.

I'm sick of these companies that keep complaining that Piracy is causing PC games industary death and I'm sick of the naive people who actually believes them. They are simply looking for money that's why they focus on the consoles because whether we liked it not, casual players (mostly consoles players) outnumber the PC community, currently focusing on PC isn't the best business strategy especially if you were making a SinglePlayer game.

 

[Over_Lord]

Since we are not allowed to discuss ethics in the "Crysis 2 Leaked" thread, I thought I would start one where that is the topic of discussion.

My personal opinion is that it is piracy (thus illegal) and that you are using a product that you have no right to use. It is the property of Crytek and no matter how somenone wants to "spin it", they have not been given permission to use said property.

Here's the facts... Piracy is illegal, DOWNLOADING a pirated copy is NOT.

You can stop a person from uploading a game or torrent, that is rampant piracy. BUT NOT stop us from downloading.

 

[HammerON]

Here's the facts... Piracy is illegal, DOWNLOADING a pirated copy is NOT.

You can stop a person from uploading a game or torrent, that is rampant piracy. BUT NOT stop us from downloading.

But aren't you supporting piracy (which is illegal)?

 

[btarunr]

But aren't you supporting piracy (which is illegal)?

Piracy is when someone uploads the usable, complete, release-grade product that has actual market value.

The leaked crysis2 build is partially usable, largely incomplete, not release-grade, and has no market value.

Again, my stand on this topic is that it's utterly inethical to play that leaked crysis 2 build. Anyone who's playing or distributing it is being an arsehole. But the legality angle is rather weak.

Here's the facts... Piracy is illegal, DOWNLOADING a pirated copy is NOT.

Downloading a pirated copy is piracy. Just that in this case, the leaked build isn't a pirated copy. When you download the released version, you're indulging in piracy, and that's both ethically and legally wrong.

 

[qubit]

I was trying to find a precedent from the Judicial branch as well and I found one:
http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/index.cfm?ty=pbdetail&iid=998



It appears that Intellectual Property Theft (aka "stealing software", aka "copyright infringement") is defined in legal vernacular. . .

This may be due to the urging of the FBI and constant bribes from the RIAA/MPAA, but it is nevertheless a fact we should be aware of and it has little (if any) effect on the original argument. Also I'm sure you're aware that the White House is quite fond of the term "Intellectual Property Theft".

Oh and sorry but I just realized this doesn't relate to your native country. I'm merely pointing out that in the courts of the USA copyright infringement is a form of theft (stealing). This doesn't necessarily pertain to the UK.

Thanks for the info, it just confirms how entrenched this whole idea of copying-as-stealing is within US government.

Of course, everything is different in my little quantum world.

But seriously, the UK is a bit of a sock puppet to the USA to say the least*, so they define copying as stealing too and the laws are not too different here, either.

*The UK has a "special relationship" with the USA, which most people understand as they do whatever America wants. One can put this considerably more rudely and less respectfully, but I'll leave that to your imagination...

 

[Over_Lord]

But aren't you supporting piracy (which is illegal)?

that would be when I encourage others to DOWNLOAD it, or upload/seed it myself...

which I havn't