Is downloading and playing the leaked Crysis 2 legal?

[btarunr]

that would be when I encourage others to DOWNLOAD it, or upload/seed it myself...

which I havn't

As you're downloading, your torrent client is uploading.

 

[Mr McC]

Here's the facts... Piracy is illegal, DOWNLOADING a pirated copy is NOT.

You can stop a person from uploading a game or torrent, that is rampant piracy. BUT NOT stop us from downloading.

But aren't you supporting piracy (which is illegal)?

Take Sony for example, the company that, amongst other "services", has bequeathed Securom to allegedly combat piracy.

During the heyday of the VCR, how many blank video tapes did Sony sell? Clearly they did not assume that people were using these items to exclusively record family gatherings, which begs the questions, were they supporting piracy and helping to create a culture of piracy? Was it legal then to record television broadcasts for non-commercial purposes whilst now it is illegal to make a back-up of a game because this entails circumventing DRM?

Times have undoubtedly changed, but "legality", as I have attempted to suggest, often changes as a result of corporate interest rather than improved moral fortitude.

Clearly somebody is making money from all of these "illegal" downloads, is it not fair to say that there is an element of sour grapes rather than a desire to uphold copyright law, given that many corporations disregarded copyright law or reaped profits from products that empowered such infringement (blank video tapes) in the past? Should we not also consider the moral standpoint of the companies involved in intense political lobbying against piracy and ask whether or not they have, to an extent, failed to adapt their business model to current trends and wish to redress a lack of foresight through legislative change?

 

[LAN_deRf_HA]

To be really honest, I think that downloading a pirated game is "morally" wrong, I don't care about Man-made laws because they are not reliable and often influnced by lobbies or certain groups to fulfill their goals.

Well then I'm left to assume you allow your personal morals to act as your laws... which technically are still man-made and open to exterior influence whether you recognize it or not.

An example would be someone being opposed to gay marriage not for any of the reasons they claim publicly or have convinced themselves of personally, but simply because it makes them uncomfortable in a homophobic manner, probably from deep running societal stigmas.

 

[erixx]

thanks cubit for techdirt linkie.

There I learned that I am probably a thief and pirate because I once drank a "Duff" beer.

LOL

 

[qubit]

thanks cubit for techdirt linkie.

There I learned that I am probably a thief and pirate because I once drank a "Duff" beer.

LOL

I'm not sure if you're kidding with me, or misunderstood the article.

TechDirt is actually pointing out the absurdity of copyright and the interests of Big Media, who constantly abuse it to attack ordinary people.

That TechDirt article on Duff Beer

 

[entropy13]

Here's a brief history regarding copyright.

 

[erixx]

I'm not sure if you're kidding with me, or misunderstood the article.

TechDirt is actually pointing out the absurdity of copyright and the interests of Big Media, who constantly abuse it to attack ordinary people.

That TechDirt article on Duff Beer

Why did you think I misunderstood what? Didn't you notice my irony? No problem: it was ironic

 

[TheMailMan78]

it may well be immoral, but by definition (at least in my country) its not illegal. the only person to truly commit a crime, is the one who stole the game in the first place and uploaded it to the net.

except that to my knowledge, its NOT a crime here.

And by definition you would be wrong. The fact is its illigal in your nation. Please look up the WIPO Copyright Treaty. For shits and giggles I looked up Austrailia and guess what? You are a member. Which means when you downloaded the game you broke the law.

What I'm saying is that the leaked Crysis 2 build isn't registered as EA property, yet, it's not a rip of the final product. Whoever leaked the build to the internet is clearly someone from within EA, and what was leaked had no EULA or DRM that the user had to abide by.

Yeah? Well I hate to break it to you but Crysis 2 is in fact a registered trademark. So again you are wrong.

 

[The Witcher]

Piracy supporters are gone.....IT'S THE MAIL MAN !!!

 

[Mr McC]

And by definition you would be wrong. The fact is its illigal in your nation. Please look up the WIPO Copyright Treaty. For shits and giggles I looked up Austrailia and guess what? You are a member.

Which means when you downloaded the game you broke the law.



Yeah? Well I hate to break it to you but Crysis 2 is in fact a registered trademark. So again you are wrong.

Didn't see Spain on the list, although that could be my eyesight, so I assume I can legally download this.

 

[TheMailMan78]

Didn't see Spain on the list, although that could be my eyesight, so I assume I can legally download this.

No you cannot. Here is the list. Spain is on it.

http://www.wipo.int/members/en/

 

[Over_Lord]

As you're downloading, your torrent client is uploading.

and that's why i havn't downloaded the crysis 2 beta, unlike MOST of the users here


EDIT:

besides, I dont torrent

use direct downloads instead...

 

[Mr McC]

No you cannot. Here is the list. Spain is on it.

http://www.wipo.int/members/en/

Yes, I saw it the second time round, but you can rest easy, I have no intention of downloading this.

However, you should be aware that it is not a criminal offence to download copyrighted material in Spain, it is only a criminal offence when you seek to acquire profit via said material.

Right to the private copying and home playing

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_copyright_law#Exceptions

The law explicitly allows to make private copies of copyrighted work without the author's consent for published works if the copy is not for commercial use. To compensate authors, the law establishes a compensatory tax associated with certain recording media (CDs, DVDs, cassettes), managed through societies of authors and editors (as SGAE and CEDRO). Such private copies of a protected work must be made for the private use (not collective, nor lucrative) of the copier (2�º of art. 31): the author is compensated by a tax on the means of reproduction (e.g. photocopiers, blank cassettes) determined at article 25. However, computer programs can not be copied except for a backup copy (art. 99.2): they can be modified for the sole use of the person performing the modification (art. 99.4). Any work can be played in a "strictly home" environment (art. 20.1) without the author's consent. The moral rights of the author can only be exercised in the respect of the rights of owners of copies of the work or of rights to its exploitation, as detailed in article 14.

Some consumer's associations and specialized lawyers contend that the current legislation allows file sharing (as with p2p networks) as this is not for profit and is for private use [6][7]. Additionally, the Penal Code explicitly requires the intention of commercial profit in order to commit a crime against the Intellectual Property

 

[TheMailMan78]

Yes, I saw it the second time round, but you can rest easy, I have no intention of downloading this.

However, you should be aware that it is not a criminal offence to download copyrighted material in Spain, it is only a criminal offence when you seek to acquire profit via said material.

Right to the private copying and home playing

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_copyright_law#Exceptions

The law explicitly allows to make private copies of copyrighted work without the author's consent for published works if the copy is not for commercial use. To compensate authors, the law establishes a compensatory tax associated with certain recording media (CDs, DVDs, cassettes), managed through societies of authors and editors (as SGAE and CEDRO). Such private copies of a protected work must be made for the private use (not collective, nor lucrative) of the copier (2�º of art. 31): the author is compensated by a tax on the means of reproduction (e.g. photocopiers, blank cassettes) determined at article 25. However, computer programs can not be copied except for a backup copy (art. 99.2): they can be modified for the sole use of the person performing the modification (art. 99.4). Any work can be played in a "strictly home" environment (art. 20.1) without the author's consent. The moral rights of the author can only be exercised in the respect of the rights of owners of copies of the work or of rights to its exploitation, as detailed in article 14.

Some consumer's associations and specialized lawyers contend that the current legislation allows file sharing (as with p2p networks) as this is not for profit and is for private use [6][7]. Additionally, the Penal Code explicitly requires the intention of commercial profit in order to commit a crime against the Intellectual Property

They contend its privet but in fact its still against your own law. US law states the same thing as this for the most part. But there is a big difference with all of this and Crysis 2. No one owns a legal copy of it except Crytek so anyone in possession of it is in fact in possession of stolen property. Second making of copy of owned media isn't in question. However if you never bought a legitimate copy thats whats in question.

 

[pantherx12]

Downloading a pirated copy is piracy. Just that in this case, the leaked build isn't a pirated copy. When you download the released version, you're indulging in piracy, and that's both ethically and legally wrong.

Legally wrong yeah, never say something is ethically wrong though, that's subjective.

So is morality.

Good/evil.


For example I don't find it ethically wrong at all, I'd have no problems going into a shop and making a copy of an item and walking out with my copy.
I'd have no problems walking to a car lot, and driving out with a copy of a car either. ( I have a magic copying machine in this universe)

Why I'd find it ethically wrong to copy something insubstanstial is just madness.

Yeah it can be dickish, yeah it's illegal.

But wrong? heh.

 

[qubit]

Why did you think I misunderstood what? Didn't you notice my irony? No problem: it was ironic

Ya gots me! I think I had a slow moment.

 

[Mr McC]

They contend its privet but in fact its still against your own law. US law states the same thing as this for the most part. But there is a big difference with all of this and Crysis 2. No one owns a legal copy of it except Crytek so anyone in possession of it is in fact in possession of stolen property. Second making of copy of owned media isn't in question. However if you never bought a legitimate copy thats whats in question.

Firstly, it's Spanish law, not "my law".

Secondly, they can go after those responsible for redistributing stolen property (the Crytek employee, more than likely with the full awareness of his or her superiors) but not against the individuals downloading this property, providing that I seek no profit through the downloaded material. Spanish law is quite clear in this regard so I can, in fact, download this without breaking the law or opening myself up to criminal charges.

The recently passed, and highly controversial, Sinde Law actually seeks to redress this situation, but it has not yet entered into force.

 

[horik]

this will go nowhere,anyone has his own personal opinion,but if you want to stick to what the law says,that depends on the country you live in

 

[Mr McC]

this will go nowhere,anyone has his own personal opinion,but if you want to stick to what the law says,that depends on the country you live in

Precisely, which is why both the manner in which the question is worded in the OP and the poll are fatally flawed.

 

[KainXS]

sure its illegal and laws are made to stop it, if you download and play that crysis 2 and get caught its probably worst than downloading a retail game because that game was leaked and is still in beta, you aren't supposed to have it(you have more access to their property/development tools with it), it even has copy protection(it wasn't enabled in the beta)

Why make a thread like this though, we all know its gonna head down the tracks with the flaming train of doom later anyway so why, you should already know downloading games is illegal.

 

[qubit]

Why make a thread like this though, we all know its gonna head down the tracks with the flaming train of doom later anyway so why, you should already know downloading games is illegal.

Actually, the conversation has gone very well. I agree that one would have expected flamefests, infractions and a closed thread to ensue, but I guess the TPU crowd is more grown up than that.

 

[TheMailMan78]

Firstly, it's Spanish law, not "my law".

Secondly, they can go after those responsible for redistributing stolen property (the Crytek employee, more than likely with the full awareness of his or her superiors) but not against the individuals downloading this property, providing that I seek no profit through the downloaded material. Spanish law is quite clear in this regard so I can, in fact, download this without breaking the law or opening myself up to criminal charges.

The recently passed, and highly controversial, Sinde Law actually seeks to redress this situation, but it has not yet entered into force.

Its not illegal to be in possession of stolen property in your nation?

Legally wrong yeah, never say something is ethically wrong though, that's subjective.

So is morality.

Good/evil.


For example I don't find it ethically wrong at all, I'd have no problems going into a shop and making a copy of an item and walking out with my copy.
I'd have no problems walking to a car lot, and driving out with a copy of a car either. ( I have a magic copying machine in this universe)

Why I'd find it ethically wrong to copy something insubstanstial is just madness.

Yeah it can be dickish, yeah it's illegal.

But wrong? heh.

So if you had a kid and someone molested it I guess thats subjective also? Thats a slippery slope you wanna go down. Excellent troll however. Kudos. You just got an invite to TA.

 

[the54thvoid]

Yes, I saw it the second time round, but you can rest easy, I have no intention of downloading this.

However, you should be aware that it is not a criminal offence to download copyrighted material in Spain, it is only a criminal offence when you seek to acquire profit via said material.

Right to the private copying and home playing

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_copyright_law#Exceptions

The law explicitly allows to make private copies of copyrighted work without the author's consent for published works if the copy is not for commercial use. To compensate authors, the law establishes a compensatory tax associated with certain recording media (CDs, DVDs, cassettes), managed through societies of authors and editors (as SGAE and CEDRO). Such private copies of a protected work must be made for the private use (not collective, nor lucrative) of the copier (2�º of art. 31): the author is compensated by a tax on the means of reproduction (e.g. photocopiers, blank cassettes) determined at article 25. However, computer programs can not be copied except for a backup copy (art. 99.2): they can be modified for the sole use of the person performing the modification (art. 99.4). Any work can be played in a "strictly home" environment (art. 20.1) without the author's consent. The moral rights of the author can only be exercised in the respect of the rights of owners of copies of the work or of rights to its exploitation, as detailed in article 14.

Some consumer's associations and specialized lawyers contend that the current legislation allows file sharing (as with p2p networks) as this is not for profit and is for private use [6][7]. Additionally, the Penal Code explicitly requires the intention of commercial profit in order to commit a crime against the Intellectual Property

You miss this bit?

Computer programs

The special rules concerning computer programs are contained in Title VII of Book One: through successive modifications, they are now very close to the rules for other types of work. Article 96 gives a definition of "computer program", and reiterates the criteria for copyright protection: the work is only protected to the extent that it is the author's own intellectual creation, and the ideas and principles underlying any of the elements of the program, including those underlying its interfaces, are not protected by copyright (under certain circumstances, they may be protectable by patent law). An employer is assumed to have an exclusive grant of the rights of exploitation of computer programs written by employees in the course of their work (art. 97.4). Article 100 lists the following specific limitations of the rights of exploitation of a computer program, insofar as the following are permitted:

* reproduction and transformation necessary for the use of the program;
* creation of a back-up copy;
* observation, study and verification of the ideas and principles underlying the program;
* modification to produce successive versions by the holder of the rights of exploitation;
* modification to ensure interoperability with an independently-created program.

The term of protection in computer programs is the same as that for other types of work (art. 98).

This is pursuant to actually purchasing the 'software'. Once purchased then you can copy it for your own use.

I think.

But i give up on this thread, it'll start hurting my head and i'm not a freaking lawyer!!

 

[TheMailMan78]

You miss this bit?



This is pursuant to actually purchasing the 'software'. Once purchased then you can copy it for your own use.

I think.

Yeah thats exactly what I said. However don't disrupt this conversation with logic. It only incites flaming.

 

[douglatins]

"Additionally, the Penal Code explicitly requires the intention of commercial profit in order to commit a crime against the Intellectual Property"

Ok then please who is getting comercial profit from playing this i really wanna know! LMFAO