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The unknown future of PC gaming....

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handhelds have a problem with piracy but they also sell a lot of units.
 
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PC gaming is dying, but definitely is not the fault of piracy like some claims.
I mean look at NintendoDS. The game sales for it are booming, even if it's the most pirated console ever. There are even legit companies that sale adapters to play pirated games, haha!

people are not buying games which means the returns are smaller and if publishers want to support the platform they have to cut cost by porting. porting a title means more people are going to pirate on top of the existing piracy.

I think publishers will eventually say "forget it. console ports are not worth it anymore."
 

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PC gaming is dying, but definitely is not the fault of piracy like some claims.
I mean look at NintendoDS. The game sales for it are booming, even if it's the most pirated console ever. There are even legit companies that sale adapters to play pirated games, haha!

Piracy on the PC doesn't help the matter. Mainly because it is so easy to run a backup on a PC. Whereas it is harder to run a backup on a console because they require modification which some do not understand (I'm not including myself it that statement :) ).
 
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Piracy on the PC doesn't help the matter. Mainly because it is so easy to run a backup on a PC. Whereas it is harder to run a backup on a console because they require modification which some do not understand (I'm not including myself it that statement :) ).

It is not a question of understanding the modification process, but rather of having access to somebody who does: in Spain this service is readily available and I assure you that consoles suffer just as much piracy as pc's, if not more. I assume that finding somebody with the know-how is easy in just about any part of the world and, failing that, the Internet will inevitably offer a number of highly detailed guides. Piracy has always been used as an excuse by company's who wish to focus their attention on the console market, where they can save on development costs and presumably achieve greater profits.

I think publishers will eventually say "forget it. console ports are not worth it anymore."

Why would they do that? It's enough to port the game and release a DX11 patch and people will pay for it. Piracy figures do not represent lost sales and while sales are to be made I think that you will find that most companies will endeavour to form a part of those sales.
 
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PC Gamers are quick to point a finger at everybody but themselves. PC Gamers destroyed they're own platform.
 
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http://i56.tinypic.com/2cdlcz.png

PC Gamers are quick to point a finger at everybody but themselves. PC Gamers destroyed they're own platform.

As far as I'm aware, "my own" platform has not been destroyed yet, at least I play on it every single day. Considering that I don't pirate games, in what way have I contributed to the destruction of this platform? Moreover, who released the figures you are publishing and to what end? I know very few people who own an X-Box that hasn't been "chipped", and similar services are available for each and every console. Do you really believe that console gaming offers companies higher possibilities of avoiding piracy?
 

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http://i56.tinypic.com/2cdlcz.png

PC Gamers are quick to point a finger at everybody but themselves. PC Gamers destroyed they're own platform.

Those numbers mean nothing. All PC pirates download their own games. Most console pirates ask their PC pirate friends to download the games or they buy them from bootleggers* and they copy the CD for all their console pirate friends.

Also we have to ask ourselves who released those numbers and what is their real interest.

* I think it's the correct term for people who sell pirated copies on the street?
 

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PC Gamers are quick to point a finger at everybody but themselves. PC Gamers destroyed they're own platform.

This is kinda hypo statement. :wtf:
 
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Hey check this out. Seems MS is gathering people for the next gen Xbox. So Sony will be forced to produce a PS4 and consoles will catch up to(or most likely surpass) PC performance thus bringing more eye candy goodness and happiness for all the children of the world! RAingowz and unicornz yeyyy! :eek:
 

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It is not a question of understanding the modification process, but rather of having access to somebody who does: in Spain this service is readily available and I assure you that consoles suffer just as much piracy as pc's, if not more. I assume that finding somebody with the know-how is easy in just about any part of the world and, failing that, the Internet will inevitably offer a number of highly detailed guides. Piracy has always been used as an excuse by company's who wish to focus their attention on the console market, where they can save on development costs and presumably achieve greater profits.

I know all of this m8. But what I meant to say is that console gamers that don't understand the modding process are more cautious when it comes to modifying their consoles. Whereas no irreversable modification has to be done to a PC for it to run backups.

Console software is pirated like crazy....but the console market still has far more legit customers. Unlike the PC gaming society.

I also agree that game companies blame piracy for everything, when this is clearly not true.

As far as I'm aware, "my own" platform has not been destroyed yet, at least I play on it every single day. Considering that I don't pirate games, in what way have I contributed to the destruction of this platform? Moreover, who released the figures you are publishing and to what end? I know very few people who own an X-Box that hasn't been "chipped", and similar services are available for each and every console. Do you really believe that console gaming offers companies higher possibilities of avoiding piracy?

Are you talking about the old XBOX? Because the 360 doesn't require 'chipping' ;).
 

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Console software is pirated like crazy....but the console market still has far more legit customers. Unlike the PC gaming society.

But that's what we are discussing on this thread. If they only release console games and then port them to the PC, it's obvious they will sell more on consoles. If you want to sell on the PC, you must create PC games, you have to elaborate on gameplay that is appealing to the PC crowd and they have constantly failed on doing so.

The games that have sold more on the PC in the recent years (except Sims and WoW) have been Starcraft 2, Crysis (And Warhead) and the STALKER series. Those have sold 2x to 5x more than MW2 and the likes. Now think about it, what do those games have in common? Do you think it's just coincidence that PC exclusives are the games that most sold on the PC platform?
 
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As far as I'm aware, "my own" platform has not been destroyed yet, at least I play on it every single day. Considering that I don't pirate games, in what way have I contributed to the destruction of this platform? Moreover, who released the figures you are publishing and to what end? I know very few people who own an X-Box that hasn't been "chipped", and similar services are available for each and every console. Do you really believe that console gaming offers companies higher possibilities of avoiding piracy?

I know there are good people. I wasn't trying to speak for everybody :)

at least consoles have consequences if your caught cheating or pirating. the PC doesn't even have remorse lol

consoles have a rental, used and trade market. the PC doesn't (formally).

I think they help to a degree.

This is kinda hypo statement. :wtf:

PC Gamers rage every day over consoles and developers, but they have nothing to do with PC Gaming and it's current state. it's all a biproduct of piracy. PC Gamers did this to themselves.
 
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I know all of this m8. But what I meant to say is that console gamers that don't understand the modding process are more cautious when it comes to modifying their consoles. Whereas no irreversable modification has to be done to a PC for it to run backups.

Console software is pirated like crazy....but the console market still has far more legit customers. Unlike the PC gaming society.

I also agree that game companies blame piracy for everything, when this is clearly not true.



Are you talking about the old XBOX? Because the 360 doesn't require 'chipping' ;).

"Chipping" is simply the term used in the region of Spain where I live to refer to the process of unlocking the console to accept downloaded games.

Our positions appear to be opposed, but there is common ground and the truth probably lies somewhere in between, certainly the fact that hardware modification proves unnecessary on the pc suggests that piracy is an easier process on this platform; however, once a console owner witnesses what an unlocked console can do, only their moral fibre and economic possibilities dictate whether or not they will avail themselves of this option. In any event, we can agree that those wishing to pirate consoles are faced with very few real impediments.

We agree that the companies blame piracy too often and for too much. House prices have fallen, purchasing power is on the decrease and yet we are faced with games released at €60 with additional DLC content that only adds to this cost. I firmly believe that if the companies took a more realistic approach to pricing they would convert many pirates into paying customers and would probably increase profits. That isn't an apology for pirates nor an attempt to depict them as Robin Hood, it just appears to be common sense given the current economic climate and the reductions witnessed in other industries.

Where the major companies fail to adapt to the present situation and continue to focus on consoles, I feel that we will witness more and more independent companies rising to the task of filling this void: good pc games at affordable prices. Where there is a market, there will always be someone willing to satisfy demand and whilst I admit that gaming on the pc could be healthier, I affirm that it will adapt and transform before it ever dies.

consoles have a rental, used and trade market. the PC doesn't (formally).

I think they help to a degree.

Undoubtedly, but the pc gaming industry once had a thriving secondhand market; however the big companies killed that off via DRM, purportedly invented to combat piracy and yet, based on the figures you are publishing, it never once served this purpose.
 
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consoles have a rental, used and trade market. the PC doesn't (formally).

There is such a market for PC games too... in many places anyway. And it used to be much bigger in the past. Lack of rental and used market is the consequence of PC gaming going downside, not the cause. You just can't mention the consequences of publishers screwing the PC gaming as the reason.

PC Gamers rage every day over consoles and developers, but they have nothing to do with PC Gaming and it's current state. it's all a biproduct of piracy. PC Gamers did this to themselves.

Like I previously said, we did nothing. If they release subpar crappy console ports they will obviously not sell games it's that simple. Piracy has always existed and in fact it was much bigger in the 90's, while the user base for gamming enabled PCs was 1/3 rd of what it is now. Starcraft and Half-Life both sold over 10 million copies and they were "pirated"* to hell and back and to hell and back again. So what's different now? Yeah, HL and SC were masterpieces with 20+ hours of gameplay that sold for 40 euros and now we get subpar quality games with 4 hours worth of gameplay for 60 euros. But yeah piracy is killing PC gaming... :banghead:

Don't worry, publishers are going to start focusing on tablets and phones soon and discriminating consoles as they've done with the PC and you will see how suddenly piracy goes rampant on consoles too and tablet/phone market is the only honest gaming platform soon enough. That's what they will say anyway and it will be as false as it is with PC piracy.

* I said "pirated" with quoation marks because they didn't require any modification, you could just install them on as many PCs as you wanted to and there was no copy protection on the CD.
 
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But that's what we are discussing on this thread. If they only release console games and then port them to the PC, it's obvious they will sell more on consoles. If you want to sell on the PC, you must create PC games, you have to elaborate on gameplay that is appealing to the PC crowd and they have constantly failed on doing so.

The games that have sold more on the PC in the recent years (except Sims and WoW) have been Starcraft 2, Crysis (And Warhead) and the STALKER series. Those have sold 2x to 5x more than MW2 and the likes. Now think about it, what do those games have in common? Do you think it's just coincidence that PC exclusives are the games that most sold on the PC platform?

I agree, a lack of originality/console porting is slowly killing off PC gaming. Somewhere along the line I turned this thread into a 'console gaming is ok' thread, sorry. I just hate being labeled as a 'console sheep' so to speak because I choose the simpler option for gaming nowadays (I was a big PC a few years back and loved it!).

But I still think that the game devs/publishers are focusing on the games console now because PC gaming just isn't as accessible.

"Chipping" is simply the term used in the region of Spain where I live to refer to the process of unlocking the console to accept downloaded games.

Our positions appear to be opposed, but there is common ground and the truth probably lies somewhere in between, certainly the fact that hardware modification proves unnecessary on the pc suggests that piracy is an easier process on this platform; however, once a console owner witnesses what an unlocked console can do, only their moral fibre and economic possibilities dictate whether or not they will avail themselves of this option. In any event, we can agree that those wishing to pirate consoles are faced with very few real impediments.

We agree that the companies blame piracy too often and for too much. House prices have fallen, purchasing power is on the decrease and yet we are faced with games released at €60 with additional DLC content that only adds to this cost. I firmly believe that if the companies took a more realistic approach to pricing they would convert many pirates into paying customers and would probably increase profits. That isn't an apology for pirates nor an attempt to depict them as Robin Hood, it just appears to be common sense given the current economic climate and the reductions witnessed in other industries.

Where the major companies fail to adapt to the present situation and continue to focus on consoles, I feel that we will witness more and more independent companies rising to the task of filling this void: good pc games at affordable prices. Where there is a market, there will always be someone willing to satisfy demand and whilst I admit that gaming on the pc could be healthier, I affirm that it will adapt and transform before it ever dies.



Undoubtedly, but the pc gaming industry once had a thriving secondhand market; however the big companies killed that off via DRM, purportedly invented to combat piracy and yet, based on the figures you are publishing, it never once served this purpose.

I totally agree. The games industry needs a MASSIVE shake-up. But it won't happen. Too many people are hooked on console gaming and will pay for the overpriced games with overpriced DLC that should have appeared in the original retail release anyway.

PC gaming is well and truly up sh!t creek :(
 
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what the hell people, you are talking like PC games never have an exclusive ????

then what about starcraft 2, Civ 5, the sims 3, totalwar series, minecraft, and none was FPS !!!!!

and saying that people can't hook up PC to TV is stupid, if that the case then why HTPC market growing heck even AMD and via entering this market with their zacate and nvdia/AMD releasing low profile graphic card

and in my country PC gaming is actually growing more and more bigger than console games, and I just have one friend that own console games (ps3), because in here console gaming is more expensive than PC gaming (especially the games price),
 

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The problem is not that there are ports from consoles to PC, the problem is those ports are BAD ports, like 95% of them. Except Mass Effect 1+2, Dragon Age, and a few other I don't recall any other good ports....
 

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because in here console gaming is more expensive than PC gaming (especially the games price),

That's true everywhere, they just don't see it. specially XB360 costs far more than PC gaming on the long term if you are a true gamer and you don't pirate. In a period of 5 years you pay $5 * 60 months = $300 just in Live fees, plus you pay $10 more for every game you legally buy. In five years if you didn't buy 30-50 you are not really a true gamer, add another $300-500. That's $800, enough to upgrade your full gaming rig 2 times (except case, PSU...). Even 3 times if you buy intelligently, i.e you bought a MB with futureproofing and bought a dualie back in the day, you can upgrade to a quad now, etc.

And that's if you want to upgrade which is not really needed if all you want is to match the quality that consoles offer. A dual core, 2GB of the cheapest ram around and a 8800 GT is all you need if you want the same experience you get from consoles.
 

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I 've always thought that the best way for the companies to deal with piracy would be to change the medium, abandon the optical drive storage for games and go back to cartridge. Of course, the downside is the limited capacity of cartridge, but if they found a way to make something of a hybrid between a cartridge and a flash memory/SSD drive, with an added chip that prevents the creation of an ISO/ROM, or something that prevents it from being uploaded to the internet, I think that piracy would go down a lot. I mean, sure , they cracked all the 16-bit consoles and N64 and others which were all cartridge-based eventually, but isn't it easier to crack an optical drive storage medium? I think yes....I am under the impression that the two major events in technology history that made piracy so common and easily accessible, were: a) the release of CD Recordable drives and media for home use and b) the birth of high-speed internet. If they found a way to deal with those two factors, no company would be complaining about piracy...
 
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That's true everywhere, they just don't see it. specially XB360 costs far more than PC gaming on the long term if you are a true gamer and you don't pirate. In a period of 5 years you pay $5 * 60 months = $300 just in Live fees, plus you pay $10 more for every game you legally buy. In five years if you didn't buy 30-50 you are not really a true gamer, add another $300-500. That's $800, enough to upgrade your full gaming rig 2 times (except case, PSU...). Even 3 times if you buy intelligently, i.e you bought a MB with futureproofing and bought a dualie back in the day, you can upgrade to a quad now, etc.

And that's if you want to upgrade which is not really needed if all you want is to match the quality that consoles offer. A dual core, 2GB of the cheapest ram around and a 8800 GT is all you need if you want the same experience you get from consoles.

what about people who don't want to upgrade or want to buy a PC? XBOX 360 is dropping to $149 by Holiday 2011. you don't have to subscribe to XBOX Live. you can acquire games a couple different ways (Buy, Trade, Rent). I bought a couple titles under $10. the PC lineup is weak this year. PS3 is oozing with exclusive, multiplatform titles, PSN Arcade, PS One Classics, etc. value is where the consoles prevail.
 
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I agree with the console ports point. there maybe PC exclusives - but look how many there is for console compared to whats on PC. Consoles also have a lot more freebies and crap when games are labled as 'limited edition' most often coming in schmexy tin cases with small books with concept art and what not. how often do we get these things on PC?

Piracy is just an excuse. If they REALLY and i mean REALLY wanted to make a game sell on the PC platform - make it a possible PC exclusive and the most important thing MAKE SURE ITS NOT A CONSOLE PORT. Because console ports dont help the platform. devs need to make the platform special again and draw the masses in. and they can start by stop giving us stupid console ports. there have been possibly a small handful of great ports but look at the rest! utter shit! but they dont see it because all they do is sit in the corner, cover their ears and whine about piracy while denying that they too are contributing to the decline of PC gaming.
 
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I 've always thought that the best way for the companies to deal with piracy would be to change the medium, abandon the optical drive storage for games and go back to cartridge. Of course, the downside is the limited capacity of cartridge, but if they found a way to make something of a hybrid between a cartridge and a flash memory/SSD drive, with an added chip that prevents the creation of an ISO/ROM, or something that prevents it from being uploaded to the internet, I think that piracy would go down a lot. I mean, sure , they cracked all the 16-bit consoles and N64 and others which were all cartridge-based eventually, but isn't it easier to crack an optical drive storage medium? I think yes....I am under the impression that the two major events in technology history that made piracy so common and easily accessible, were: a) the release of CD Recordable drives and media for home use and b) the birth of high-speed internet. If they found a way to deal with those two factors, no company would be complaining about piracy...


I strongly disagrees. Rule No.1 of data storage is that if you save your data somewhere, then there is someone somewhere who knows how to copy it. There's no point in roms and cartridges which only increase the distribution costs. The real way to fight piracy is to completely ignore it. Yes ignore it. Instead focus on reducing production/manufacturing and distribution costs and deduct all the savings from the cost of the final product. Thus reaching a wider audience and boosting overall sales while at the same time keeping your profit margin.

Game designers prefer to make games for consoles not because of piracy but because it's easier. Thus your design phase is shorter and your overall output is greater. Simple market mechanics.
 

Benetanegia

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I 've always thought that the best way for the companies to deal with piracy would be to change the medium, abandon the optical drive storage for games and go back to cartridge. Of course, the downside is the limited capacity of cartridge, but if they found a way to make something of a hybrid between a cartridge and a flash memory/SSD drive, with an added chip that prevents the creation of an ISO/ROM, or something that prevents it from being uploaded to the internet, I think that piracy would go down a lot. I mean, sure , they cracked all the 16-bit consoles and N64 and others which were all cartridge-based eventually, but isn't it easier to crack an optical drive storage medium? I think yes....I am under the impression that the two major events in technology history that made piracy so common and easily accessible, were: a) the release of CD Recordable drives and media for home use and b) the birth of high-speed internet. If they found a way to deal with those two factors, no company would be complaining about piracy...

Yeah, but those two factors are the same that made gaming more accesible and valuable and made videogaming a successful bussiness. The main reason that the PlayStation sold so much and relegated Nintendo to a second and third place back then, was because of the convenience of the CD and the fact that it was so much cheaper to produce. Without CD and internet current companies wouldn't be as big and they would not "loose as much to piracy" as they currently do. Maybe piracy rate would be lower, but they would also profit orders of magnitude less than now.

The truth is they don't lose anythng due to piracy and that internet is just the medium that allows it. Piracy rate is not either bigger than in the past, music and movies have never been pirated more than in the days of diskmans and videotapes and games that came on floppy format. Companies are just greedy and blame on piracy for "lost sales" that would have never been sales, despite the fact that they have billions of profits every year.

They could make more? Sure. The automotive industry could also create subpar cars made with cheap components and (try to) sell them for 3x times what they're worth (which is what game publishers do and force inhouse developers to do) but because it's an industry with more history and that people know better of, they just can't get away with that.

I'm a 3D artist and modeller and I know how much they pay for the job (and how much would I want) and I know more or less how much it costs to create games (even if they are generous with the developers/software engineers) and it's nowhere near what they claim it costs. Of course I'm not counting marketing, intermediaries and whatever the Hollywood stars get for doing their 2-3 lines of speech, but it's a lot less than the numbers they boast. I could be off by half an order of magnitude from what it really costs to make a game, but they are claiming budgets of hundreds of dollars and I can guarantee that you don't even need $5 or $10 millions to create an AAA tittle, provided no one in the prcess is a greedy prick. Hell some people are making games for free or for the little that people donate... then there's mods that are worth more than retail games...

In the movie industry you have Tarantino too, making movies for less than $10 millions that are worth 20x times more than $200++ productions...
 

Benetanegia

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the PC line up is weak this year.

PC line up weak? Like I said you are not aware of PC gaming anymore if you have ever been that is.

And you mention casual games as a strong point for PS3... PC is king for that, you simply cannot beat it lol, Popcap anyone? Plus you have thousands of FREE games and also flash games, which pwn many of those available for purchase for the PS3. Add fun mods for existing games like zombie mods, garry's mod etc... sorry but no matter how leet your PC is, you have literally no idea what you are talking about. I don't mean to be rude, but it's true.

You bought a couple games for $10? I bought Prey*, STALKER: SOC*, Bioshock*, Rome:TW*, Medieval2:TW, RACE, GTR2*, and a dozen more for less than $5 each (less than 3 euros actually). I also bought Orange box for 25 euros. Steam sales, pure awesomesauce.

* This ones I already had on disk, but wth for 3 euros i get them on Steam too... all of them 1 year after they were released. it's not that they were old.
 
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haha. shame on you. you must be getting desperate.
 
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