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Unlimited Detail Technology

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He's panning running around the tree and claims to be rendering "21 trillion polygons". Notice anything wrong with that?

1 A trillion anything will bog down a supercomputer, let alone a laptop. There won't be enough memory to hold so much data, either. Time index 25:33

2 Polygons? What happened to "atoms"?

You're being a little ridiculous, unless you're on the autistic spectrum then I suppose it's not your fault. Anyways it was very clear he wasn't being serious/literal if you were paying any attention to the prior dialog. He was doing equivalents and exaggerations. Now for the "but something, side argument". I have no problem with skepticism but for fucks sake do it right or don't open your mouth people. The quality of commentary here is, as usual on the internet, completely lacking. Most of what I'm seeing here is the typical jump on the bandwagon bashing by people who have no fucking idea what they're going on about. Not that that's surprising.
 

Benetanegia

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Well I assume that a trilion is 1,000,000,000,000 in this case or just one tera and not the long scale one an exa.

So 1,000,000,000,000 atoms at XYZ + RGBA each, 1 byte each dimension (I'm assuming no normals even though you would clearly want normals for many reasons):

1,000,000,000,000 * 7 * 1 Byte = 7 terabytes of info onscreen. wow just wow :laugh:

You're being a little ridiculous, unless you're on the autistic spectrum then I suppose it's not your fault. Anyways it was very clear he wasn't being serious/literal if you were paying any attention to the prior dialog. He was doing equivalents and exaggerations. Now for the "but something, side argument". I have no problem with skepticism but for fucks sake do it right or don't open your mouth people. The quality of commentary here is, as usual on the internet, completely lacking. Most of what I'm seeing here is the typical jump on the bandwagon bashing by people who have no fucking idea what they're going on about. Not that that's surprising.

Oh enlighten us. Sorry it really seems the "people who have no fucking idea what they're going on about" are clearly on the other side of this argument. Mr. Dell being the first one on that list, when he has no clue about what tesselation is, nor what a voxels is or how it's being used, nor what LOD is ffs! The fact that he cannot even recognise a tech like Atomontage for what it is when it's 100% the same thing they are doing is specially worrying (a physics engine? excuse me??)...
 
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qubit

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You're being a little ridiculous, unless you're on the autistic spectrum then I suppose it's not your fault. Anyways it was very clear he wasn't being serious/literal if you were paying any attention to the prior dialog. He was doing equivalents and exaggerations. Now for the "but something, side argument". I have no problem with skepticism but for fucks sake do it right or don't open your mouth people. The quality of commentary here is, as usual on the internet, completely lacking. Most of what I'm seeing here is the typical jump on the bandwagon bashing by people who have no fucking idea what they're going on about. Not that that's surprising.

Don't talk rubbish, man. And I'm not autistic, ok? :rolleyes: Your comment was very condescending and insulting to anyone that is. :slap:

Look at that video again. He quite literally excused the performance of the demo, because it was rendering "21 trillion polygons", no qualifiers, no other context. My two points about it stand.
 
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Don't talk rubbish, man. And I'm not autistic, ok? :rolleyes: Your comment was very condescending and insulting to anyone that is. :slap:

Look at that video again. He quite literally excused the performance of the demo, because it was rendering "21 trillion polygons", no qualifiers, no other context. My two points about it stand.

Im on the "spectrum" and i found it a tad insulting.
 

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Don't talk rubbish, man. And I'm not autistic, ok? :rolleyes: Your comment was very condescending and insulting to anyone that is. :slap:

Look at that video again. He quite literally excused the performance of the demo, because it was rendering "21 trillion polygons", no qualifiers, no other context. My two points about it stand.

How do you suppose you render 21 trillion polygons? :wtf:
 

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qubit has the opposite of a hardon here and he wants us all to be a part of it.
 

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We all know rendering 21 trillion polygons is not possible. In other words, it couldn't have been 21 trillion *polygons*. I know that much.
 

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We all know rendering 21 trillion polygons is not possible. In other words, it couldn't have been 21 trillion *polygons*. I know that much.

I was simply pointing out Dell's absurd claims and unsurprisingly, you agree with me.

So what was your point then? :confused:
 
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Come on peeps, it would be nice if this thread was kept open...

Let's just try and remember that we are all talking from theory. Neither of us are more accountable than the other.
 

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We all know rendering 21 trillion polygons is not possible. In other words, it couldn't have been 21 trillion *polygons*. I know that much.

Well obviously Dell is talking about the equivalent of 21 trillion polys, which I guess that actually means 21 trilion atoms in his nomenclature. In reality for the same geometry/shape you need far more points (or "little tiny atoms") than you do with triangles, because a triangle (or a small group of tris) actually represents or aproximates a surface, while many points, much more points are required to aproximate that same surface.

Neither claim is realistic, far from it and in fact, it is false and misleading and that's why it is a scam. They say their technology can render trillions of "polygons", but in reality they are only rendering a couple million (some Crysis 2 scenes have almost 3 million of unique polys), repeated over and over and over and over again, at 1024x768, 15 fps and they didn't even made the effort to rotate the instanced geometry. And the reason for that is simple, they can't, only rotating all those objects would trash performance to low singe digits. The inevitable truth is that they can not deliver 5% of what they are claiming. Their rendering technique is valid, and like I said many other people are using it (and arguably better like Atomontage), but Euclideon is deliberately lying about what it can realistically do and about the viability as a game engine.
 

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I know it's bogus (even though I think some parts of it probable could be used), I just think it's fun how you have to say the same things over and over and over again. :p
 

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There are countless inventions that weren't developed by more than one man.
AC current (Nikola Tesla), the first known scuba gear (Da Vinci).. So why can't this man have figured out this? Time will tell, but I for one is excited and hopeful. Like I said, you don't get away two million dollars by shrugging your shoulders and saying "I guess we were wrong". Dell also said they had enough money to complete what I imagine is some kind of working version of it. It's easy to be a critic. At one point people thought the earth was flat, and when proven wrong, they struggled to accept it. I don't think it's impossible. He's obviously onto something. I seriously doubt the government would just hand him the money like that. That's really the extend of it.
Critic or not, time will tell who was right. And I think I'm right in saying most of us are hopeful at least.

We could probably replace oil, but being a tin hat, I think the oil companies don't want that.
Now why would nVidia want this? Far reaching as it is, it makes sense. No need for a GPU, no more nVidia GPU's. That's a lot of money. Just an example obviosuly, I know they said they would take advantage of the GPU eventually. When there is money to be made, people will do just about anything to keep it away from the mainstream.
 

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I know it's bogus (even though I think some parts of it probable could be used), I just think it's fun how you have to say the same things over and over and over again. :p

Yeah, it's bogus all right and Bene seems to have the technical aspects of it down. :) It does look like they're dressing up voxels as new tech to dupe investors into giving them money.

Repeating the same thing over and over? Yeah, kinda like their graphics, innit? :laugh: It depends on the context though. I'll say it if someone looks like they're getting suckered and they need to be educated and other times, to review the HardOCP video for example.

EDIT: I took out the slap smiley now I know you weren't just being mean. :toast:
 
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when the best argument for it is "its theoretically possible, based on random chance for this guy to have invented this technology", its kinda proving the point that its fake.


seriously, no one here has any arguments to prove its true other than 'it aint impossible for someone to invent it'
 

Benetanegia

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There are countless inventions that weren't developed by more than one man.
AC current (Nikola Tesla), the first known scuba gear (Da Vinci).. So why can't this man have figured out this? Time will tell, but I for one is excited and hopeful. Like I said, you don't get away two million dollars by shrugging your shoulders and saying "I guess we were wrong". Dell also said they had enough money to complete what I imagine is some kind of working version of it. It's easy to be a critic. At one point people thought the earth was flat, and when proven wrong, they struggled to accept it. I don't think it's impossible. He's obviously onto something. I seriously doubt the government would just hand him the money like that. That's really the extend of it.
Critic or not, time will tell who was right. And I think I'm right in saying most of us are hopeful at least.

We could probably replace oil, but being a tin hat, I think the oil companies don't want that.
Now why would nVidia want this? Far reaching as it is, it makes sense. No need for a GPU, no more nVidia GPU's. That's a lot of money. Just an example obviosuly, I know they said they would take advantage of the GPU eventually. When there is money to be made, people will do just about anything to keep it away from the mainstream.

See? That's the problem, you can only rely wishful thinking and that is the only thing that UD has by his side.

"Some other people managed this or that, so why can't this man have figured out this?"

Because it's not the same thing at all. For instance Tesla didn't discover AC, it was a very well known concept long before he decided it was the best way of carrying power and he was far from being alone. But most importantly his tech and claims didn't go against the laws of physics, quite the opposite.

Same for Da Vinci, he created some tech long before anyone else even considered it, but it didn't go against the laws of physics that were very well known by then. Quite the opposite again, the relatively vast knowledge of that time fully supported his designs.

But you simply can't compress or condense or compact (the 3 actually mean slightly different things) data for 21 trilion "anything" to fit current technology. And this claim is supported by the fact that no one and neither he is showing 21 trillion, nor billion not even million anything on the demo, and it's not because they are not artists, but because it's the biggest flaw for that kind of tech, whether it is actually using voxels or point cloud data (far less posible with the latter).

Replication or using the proper term instancing is one of the strong points though, because the data is stored in "data trees" and in order to replicate a seemingly complicated and very detailed model, you only have to copy paste the parent "tree" and all the branches automatically come with it. So it's false and unrealistic to claim what he does, when showing what he is showing. And it's false and deliberately misleading to excuse that by saying we are not artists, because that's simply a lie. It's as if while trying to get a job as an assistant, I claim that I can write 10.000 words in just 60 seconds and when asked for proof I write "scam" and then ctrl+c and ctrl+v until I get a line, then copy paste that line until I get a large paragraph, then 10 paragraphs then 100 paragraphs and so on. If you really want to grasp at strws I DID "write up" 10.000 words, but this achievement is useless and my claim within the context is a blatant lie.

EDIT: Oh and as a final touch. When confronted by the fact that I copy pasted the same word over and over I could simply say, "ey I'm not Shakespeare ok?" but just imagine what writers could do with this ability...
 
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So if voxels aren't new, and this guy is working on something similar, doesn't that mean there has been parallel development? In contrary to what people have been saying so far.
edit/ Tesla did in fact, with the help of George Westinghouse make AC standard. I'm sure it was "discovered" before that. But it's the same with voxels. The tech in itself is old.
I'm not trying to prove or disprove, but to say there most likely will be parallel development for anything worth a fck is somewhat narrow minded in my opinion.

http://www.google.com/patents?id=uY...urce=gbs_overview_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false

Mussels (below): Yes, *so far*.
 
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So if voxels aren't new, and this guy is working on something similar, doesn't that mean there has been parallel development? In contrary to what people have been saying so far.

kinda, because no ones made it work. its been deemed impossible every time.
 

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Mussels (below): Yes, *so far*.

They have not proven they are any closer to achieving it than the others and in fact they are actually one step behind many others. Honestly why these guy gets so much attention and (surprisingly) credit, when the others are not even known is far beyond my comprehension.

Ok I actually know why, beause of the inflated numbers. While others are showing achievable (read modest) results*, UD is claiming the imposible and imposible it IS but...

* but with real, usable environments and because of that they are 10 times more impressive. Really is laughable the way in which Dell downplays and missrepresents Atomontage (for example), saying it is "limited, we are unlimited" and whatnot... it's limited for a good damn reason!
 

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Meh, I'm leaving this discussion. It's not leading anywhere soon.
 
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Display(s) LG C2 Evo OLED 42"
Case Lian Li PC 011 Dynamic Evo
Audio Device(s) Topping E70 DAC, SMSL SP200 Amp, Adam Audio T5V's, Hifiman Sundara's.
Power Supply FSP Hydro Ti PRO 1000W
Mouse Razer Basilisk V3 Pro
Keyboard Epomaker 84 key
Software Windows 11 Pro

OneMoar

There is Always Moar
Joined
Apr 9, 2010
Messages
8,802 (1.63/day)
Location
Rochester area
System Name RPC MK2.5
Processor Ryzen 5800x
Motherboard Gigabyte Aorus Pro V2
Cooling Thermalright Phantom Spirit SE
Memory CL16 BL2K16G36C16U4RL 3600 1:1 micron e-die
Video Card(s) GIGABYTE RTX 3070 Ti GAMING OC
Storage Nextorage NE1N 2TB ADATA SX8200PRO NVME 512GB, Intel 545s 500GBSSD, ADATA SU800 SSD, 3TB Spinner
Display(s) LG Ultra Gear 32 1440p 165hz Dell 1440p 75hz
Case Phanteks P300 /w 300A front panel conversion
Audio Device(s) onboard
Power Supply SeaSonic Focus+ Platinum 750W
Mouse Kone burst Pro
Keyboard SteelSeries Apex 7
Software Windows 11 +startisallback
Barely updated. Most of his thoughts still stand. UDT is still BS. Please let this die.

lock it for the love of god lock it away ......
 
Joined
Nov 27, 2006
Messages
2,106 (0.32/day)
System Name Norfree
Processor i5 3570k @4.4
Motherboard Gigabyte UD5H
Cooling 212 Evo
Memory 4x4GB Kingston 1600 @ 1833 9cl
Video Card(s) Sapphire Nitro Fury
Storage Corsair SSD, WD Black
Display(s) 1080p TV
Case Corsair 300-R
Audio Device(s) Auzentech Prelude > Fidelio X2s and AD-700s
Power Supply PCP&C Silent 950w
Software Win 10 Pro 64
vaporwear. lock it!
 
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