The Witcher 2 Contains Secret Sauce To 'Catch 100% Of Pirates'

[digibucc]

So if I hack into a few servers and get all your personal data like name, address, credit card info, social security numbers, family members, etc. and "copy" your identity for my own perosnal use it's all okay because it's not "identity theft" it's just "identity copying"?

it's not the fact that the information was copied, but how it is used that makes it theft. the initial action in itself, though illegal as it infringes on another's rights, is not actually theft. the illegality is in how you obtain the information and what you do with it. ie stealing trash/hacking and buying crap/opening credit accounts.

Copying is stealing. It's not very hard to understand.

do we need the picture ?

don't get me wrong, i don't pirate. i support companies i appreciate and if anything am guilty of supporting companies i shouldn't have. but that doesn't mean it's as simple as "pirates are thieves. period." sure it's wrong, but the effect is debatable and the extent to which devs/pubs go to prevent it borders on unreasonable.imo.

and i personally don't believe for a minute that there is a hard line correlation between piracy and sales, and i believe that devs would like to see the pc as restricted as consoles, and if we let them go each step further without any of us speaking up, they will get their way.

 

[OneMoar]

you do realize if everyone believed what you did then there would be no video games? have fun playing with your small pecker then...

as much as some people would like to make you believe otherwise that would never be the case
for every one person not willing to buy something there is always someone that would
lets take a hypothetical walk for a moment
say everyone one in the entire world stopped buying games music software whatever ? would that put a stop to the creation of said items no
time and time again the above has happened for one reason or another and time and time again art and music and written language have thrived anyway but for the sake of this stroll down hypothetical lane lets say EA and blizzard stopped producing games because there was no profit in it ? would the medium simply die or would it evolve into something else ?

 

[SirMango]

There's a huge thread about this on GOG.com's forums if anyone is up for a good and long read.

http://www.gog.com/en/forum/general/cd_projekt_red_goes_after_file_sharers_riaa_mpaa_style/page1

 

[erocker]

it's not the fact that the information was copied, but how it is used that makes it theft. the initial action in itself, though illegal as it infringes on another's rights, is not actually theft. the illegality is in how you obtain the information and what you do with it. ie stealing trash/hacking and buying crap/opening credit accounts.



do we need the picture ?
http://questioncopyright.org/cm/images/piracy-is-not-theft.jpg

don't get me wrong, i don't pirate. i support companies i appreciate and if anything am guilty of supporting companies i shouldn't have. but that doesn't mean it's as simple as "pirates are thieves. period." sure it's wrong, but the effect is debatable and the extent to which devs/pubs go to prevent it borders on unreasonable.imo.

and i personally don't believe for a minute that there is a hard line correlation between piracy and sales, and i believe that devs would like to see the pc as restricted as consoles, and if we let them go each step further without any of us speaking up, they will get their way.

No, I don't need a picture. This picture reflects my thinking on this:

 

[Kreij]

Ahhh ... a piracy thread on the weekend at TPU and one started by a great article posted by our infamous Qubit.

Life really doesn't get any better than this.
If eveyone keeps it civil, I don't think we'll get taken down.

 

[OneMoar]

No, I don't need a picture. This picture reflects my thinking on this:

http://i403.photobucket.com/albums/pp112/erocker414/piracy-is-not-theftcopy.jpg

if you are not going to be contributory to the thread then you do not need to be posting here
I don't care who you are
one of the things that disgust me are people that repeat there opinions over and over and over without thinking logically or bothering to explain there thought process

 

[erocker]

if you are not going to be contributory to the thread then you do not need to be posting here
I don't care who you are

Because I have a differing opinon that you don't agree with? No, I will be posting here. I hope you are disgusted, theft disgusts me.

 

[OneMoar]

Because I have a differing opinon that you don't agree with? No, I will be posting here. I hope you are disgusted, theft disgusts me.

no because you are spaming over and over and over piracy is bad piracy is evil pirates should be burnt at the stake AND NOT explain WHY you believe this is so with such conviction
maby its because you feel its simply not worth the effort ? but then again why post at all
OR maby its because you are worried me might drag you into a long discussion at the end of witch you end up questioning your original position
threads like this have a tendency to make people sit and think ... something I do enjoy from time to time ....

 

[Kreij]

It's really a bad example to equate the theft of a physical object with the theft of a virtual one.
True you are not "stealing" the original, but you are depriving someone of the right to gain monetary compensation for their work.

We will offically stop calling it "stealing" and hence forth call it "purposeful monetary compensation deprivation". Which is still wrong.

 

[qubit]

Outside of lawmaking, why the hell does it even matter? In the situation we're discussing, someone is still obtaining a product for free by circumventing the system. That is illegal and I hope these pirates get caught.

Oh, it matters all right, because it's assumed that copying the game/movie/song/whatever is "stealing" that intangible product and that therefore the creator has lost money. It frankly isn't stealing, it's copying since the creator still has their product and it's not true that it automatically leads to lost sales. That's the big lie that big content foist on us to push for draconian totallitarian control of the internet and our lives, all in order to keep their f* obsolete business models alive. Man I hate the bastards for this. It's indeed illegal to make these copies, but look at who drew up these laws in the first place. It's always powerful interests manipulating politicians into screwing over the litle guy.

Also (not directed to you qubit), I love when people are like "people are always going to pirate so what's the point of trying to stop it?", so does that mean we shouldn't do anything? With that attitude, lets get rid of all laws because people are still going to murder, steal, etc. Yes, wouldn't that be great?

*Note: I'm not up for extreme DRM that hurts legit consumers more than pirates, but there's got to be someway to attempt to stop pirate without hurting paying consumers.*

As Valve's Gabe Newell (Half-life, Portal, Steam etc) said a while back "Pirates are underserved customers". He's got a point. There are quite a few reasons for copying, but the fact is that people will still buy your product even if lots of people copy it. A really good example are the DRM-free songs on iTunes. There's no toy "Fairplay" [sic] DRM on there any more to stop you sticking it on The Pirate Bay (it's only a search engine that links remember, another big difference) yet the market is vibrant and healthy. AFAIK sales actually increased after music went DRM-free - a rather inconvenient fact staring Big Media in the face that they don't like to acknowledge. So, WTF is all this BS with three strikes, SOPA and the rest of it that they're foisting on us? It's all about total control of the internet, nothing more, nothing less. Just another form of oppression that must be faught and stopped. Shit, I should be a freedom fighter, lol.

 

[pantherx12]

Copying is stealing. It's not very hard to understand.

I can appreciate that perhaps morally you feel they are on the same level.

But the same?

Not by dictionary definitions or legal definitions.

That's why when you copy something in an illegal way you don't get arrested for theft.


"True you are not "stealing" the original, but you are depriving someone of the right to gain monetary compensation for their work."

Ahh, I guess this is why people have such varied opinions on this, for example if I had intellectual property and someone simply used it/ copied it even though I could make money from it, I wouldn;t be fussed.

I would be fussed if they made money from my hard work though.

Private use though, why would I care? Honestly to me it would not make sense too, hell how would I even know someone was using it if they only copied it?

 

[digibucc]

and here is the obligatory dictionary quote:

Definition of THEFT

1
a : the act of stealing; specifically : the felonious taking and removing of personal property with intent to deprive the rightful owner of it

i get your point erocker, but i am very specific about language. it's a bad thing, it's wrong, it hurts the creator - i agree. but it is not THEFT. it's a very specific term with a specific meaning. the stigma that goes with it is the only reason you or anyone else wants to associate it with piracy. well it's unnecessary. piracy is bad, theft is bad. they are not the same thing.

threads like this have a tendency to make people sit and think ... something I do enjoy from time to time ....

no they don't. threads like this give us all a chance to repeat our POV and feel righteously correct in our views. no one questions themselves though, ever.

 

[Damn_Smooth]

In my opinion, this boils down to taking something for nothing. I don't see any moral difference between pirating a game and taking something from the shelf on a store. I am far from the richest person here, and there are more games I want to play than I can list, but I don't feel entitled to take copies just because they are there.

 

[entropy13]

"Pirates are underserved customers". He's got a point.

Agreed. I'm only willing to buy, in cash, games at $15 MAX. They rarely do so however. Or if they do, they're already 4 years old.

 

[pantherx12]

In my opinion, this boils down to taking something for nothing. I don't see any moral difference between pirating a game and taking something from the shelf on a store. I am far from the richest person here, and there are more games I want to play than I can list, but I don't feel entitled to take copies just because they are there.

I don't see a moral difference between rape and murder and yet I can clearly tell they are different things

Sorry for the extreme example but I am honestly and shocked that people let their morals group things.

 

[erocker]

no because you are spaming over and over and over piracy is bad piracy is evil pirates should be burnt at the stake AND NOT explain WHY you believe this is so with such conviction
maby its because you feel its simply not worth the effort ? but then again why post at all
OR maby its because you are worried me might drag you into a long discussion at the end of witch you end up questioning your original position
threads like this have a tendency to make people sit and think ... something I do enjoy from time to time ....

I've listended to more BS on this subject possibly before you learned to read. I'll give you this post:

I have a product be it digital or otherwise. I sell the product for a fee to make a means. The product would not exist if it were not for me, I own the product. Taking this product for any reason or means withot paying the fee for the product that I own is theft. You do not deserve my product, you didn't make my product, you are stealing my product. If I have software that I made and own, when you purchase my software you now own the software but are prohibited in selling or giving my software to anyone else under the thing callled a "terms of service" which any original owner of something would clearly have. Pirating is theft.

Argue with me all you want. I'll have something to back up my claims. It will go on forever, and that's why I usually post in these threads "half assed" as you would call it. I'm pretty firm in my stance here, there is always a grey area, but I'm not talking abouut grey areas as a majority of the issue is clear cut.

 

[Damn_Smooth]

and here is the obligatory dictionary quote:


i get your point erocker, but i am very specific about language. it's a bad thing, it's wrong, it hurts the creator - i agree. but it is not THEFT. it's a very specific term with a specific meaning. the stigma that goes with it is the only reason you or anyone else wants to associate it with piracy. well it's unnecessary. piracy is bad, theft is bad. they are not the same thing.



no they don't. threads like this give us a ll a chance to repeat our POV and feel righteously correct in our views. no one questions themselves though, ever.

How well do you think that argument would hold up in court if you got busted? I personally don't see it holding up too well.

I don't see a moral difference between rape and murder and yet I can clearly tell they are different things

Sorry for the extreme example but I am honestly and shocked that people let their morals group things.

And I'm surprised that people don't have any. Off topic, but I believe both rape and murder should be punishable by death. I'm sure you don't agree with me there either.

 

[pantherx12]

How well do you think that argument would hold up in court if you got busted? I personally don't see it holding up too well.

It would hold up perfectly, hence people being charged for copyright and not for theft

At the end of the day, I think this all comes down to misuse of language.

Theft like others have said is a very specific thing.

 

[digibucc]

How well do you think that argument would hold up in court if you got busted? I personally don't see it holding up too well.

what are you talking about?

a)i don't pirate.
b)i said piracy is bad, it's just not theft.
c)i'd be in trouble, for copyright infringement. for piracy, but not for larceny or theft. because it is not theft.

It would hold up perfectly, hence people being charged for copyright and not for theft

great minds huh beat me by seconds!!!

And I'm surprised that people don't have any. Off topic, but I believe both rape and murder should be punishable by death. I'm sure you don't agree with me there either.

the fact that our stance on the use of language makes you think you have any knowledge of where we stand morally or ethically makes me think less of you as a person.

 

[garyinhere]

I've listended to more BS on this subject possibly before you learned to read. I'll give you this post:

I have a product be it digital or otherwise. I sell the product for a fee to make a means. The product would not exist if it were not for me, I own the product. Taking this product for any reason or means withot paying the fee for the product that I own is theft. You do not deserve my product, you didn't make my product, you are stealing my product. If I have software that I made and own, when you purchase my software you now own the software but are prohibited in selling or giving my software to anyone else under the thing callled a "terms of service" which any original owner of something would clearly have. Pirating is theft.

Argue with me all you want. I'll have something to back up my claims. It will go on forever, and that's why I usually post in these threads "half assed" as you would call it. I'm pretty firm in my stance here, there is always a grey area, but I'm not talking abouut grey areas as a majority of the issue is clear cut.

If it's theft why is it legal?

 

[entropy13]

If I have software that I made and own, when you purchase my software you now own the software but are prohibited in selling or giving my software to anyone else under the thing callled a "terms of service" which any original owner of something would clearly have. Pirating is theft.

That's with YOUR software example. Almost all games right now just gives you "access" to the software. So technically you can't "steal" access.

 

[erocker]

the act of stealing; specifically : the felonious taking and removing of personal property with intent to deprive the rightful owner of it

Okay, let's look at this definition. If the personal property is the ownned digital work of the creator, made to generate money, the theif is depriving the owner of that income thus, stealing.

 

[garyinhere]

Okay, let's look at this definition. If the personal property is the ownned digital work of the creator, made to generate money, the theif is depriving the owner of that income thus, stealing.

You mean assumed income... who decides what this number should be?

 

[pantherx12]

Okay, let's look at this definition. If the personal property is the ownned digital work of the creator, made to generate money, the theif is depriving the owner of that income thus, stealing.

Unfortunately that is not the case though, if someone pirates your theoretical software do you think they would of been a customer if they didn't pirate it?

Short answer is no If people couldn't pirate something they wanted, they would go with out.



It is not like taking a physical object where you can no longer sell said object and thus lost a sale, even if a billion people pirate your software you can still sell just as many.

 

[OneMoar]

that would only apply if you could prove If one had the INTENTION to pay for said object
IE "purposeful"
there is 'content' I would never buy because its either
a: costs to much for the amount of use I would get out of it
b: does not interest me enough for me to take a risk and buy it without knowing exactly what it is
but: given the ability to download a copy and run it and see if it is something I might enjoy or use of course I will take the _low risk_ option and this is where the second part of the counter piracy argument usually rears its ugly head I have downloaded said software or game and I liked it does this mean I would buy now that I got my use out of it ???
well thats something one needs to decided based on there own moral code ...
if I really enjoy a bit of software I buy it ...

this would be a totally different subject matter if I was allowed to return a game I didn't like ( in most cases you can return a dvd or a music disk ) but as for software and games no not so and so this little viscous circled started WAAAAAAAAAAAAY back in the day when people where swapping programs with disks and sharing software and games before the advent of Cdkeys and such
and the cdkeys and such are the the very reason why we are not allowed to return goods we ( the consumer) feel are not of sufficient quality or of use