NVIDIA Engaged in PsyOps Against HD 7970: Chinese Forum

[OneCool]

I have the Kepler high end offering in SLI Skyrim results.I must say im impressed.


But for the record during the test in question one of the orphaned hearts stroked out so I can not reproduce my findings

 

[Benetanegia]

The fact that HD 7970 exists and is ready to sell, while that Kepler bogie isn't. Since Kepler doesn't exist, those behind this mischief can claim Kepler to have virtually any kind of performance/power-consumption/price figure, while AMD can't, since its performance/power/price figures are already out and tested.

Also, the fact that AMD can also resort to such practice, doesn't legitimize it.

But AMD could be doing it to stop every rumor* about Kepler, whether it's true or not. In fact, seing the posts here, it already worked out that way.

Of course the fact they could do it, doesn't make it any true, but then again the same goes for Nvidia. The only thing that I've seen so far is a bunch of people have been banned. And since we are talking about people being bought, the admin of Chiphell could as easily been bought as anyone else. Since when is Chiphell a trusty site anyway? They said Kepler was 384 bit, just to say 256 bit the next day, no hot-clocks one day, yes to hot-clocks the other. To me this means nothing really. From what I read in Asia every company does this guerrlla marketing, if it's true that the Chiphell members were working for Nvidia that only means they got caught and the ones from other comanies have not been caught (yet), not that it is something extraordinary that is only made by Nvidia. It's as relevant as saying that politicians lie.

* or info that cannot be verified.

 

[Crap Daddy]

So next Call of Duty should be COD PsyOps, a highly entertaining first person shooter where a dude that goes by the name "Kepler" has to save the world from a bunch of zombified Foxconn Chinese workers.

 

[FreedomEclipse]

So next Call of Duty should be COD PsyOps, a highly entertaining first person shooter where a dude that goes by the name "Kepler" has to save the world from a bunch of zombified Foxconn Chinese workers.

as quoted by Mr. Gou 'boss' of foxconn. calling them 'animals' wasnt low enough

 

[TheMailMan78]

But AMD could be doing it to stop every rumor* about Kepler, whether it's true or not. In fact, seing the posts here, it already worked out that way.

Of course the fact they could do it, doesn't make it any true, but then again the same goes for Nvidia. The only thing that I've seen so far is a bunch of people have been banned. And since we are talking about people being bought, the admin of Chiphell could as easily been bought as anyone else. Since when is Chiphell a trusty site anyway? They said Kepler was 384 bit, just to say 256 bit the next day, no hot-clocks one day, yes to hot-clocks the other. To me this means nothing really. From what I read in Asia every company does this guerrlla marketing, if it's true that the Chiphell members were working for Nvidia that only means they got caught and the ones from other comanies have not been caught (yet), not that it is something extraordinary that is only made by Nvidia. It's as relevant as saying that politicians lie.

* or info that cannot be verified.

I think you are an NVIDIA plant!

 

[Sihastru]

A HD7970 is on average 31% faster then an HD6970 (previous AMD top GPU), and just 12% faster then an GTX580 (current NVIDIA top GPU) at 1920x1200.

If we talk about performance per dollar, at 1200p, the GTX580 actually has an advatage, because the AMD cards have their prices very much inflated, especially in Europe, and you pay a lot more for that 12% performance advatage.

The same HD7970 is about 50% faster then the current mid-range NVIDIA GPU, the GTX560 Ti (vanilla, not the special edition 448 core) at the same 1200p resolution. I'm not going to say how much more bang for the buck you get with the GTX560 Ti because it's embarrasing for the AMD card.

This is all according to TPU.

What I'm wondering now, it's how much performance do people expect for the GK104 card priced at $300 to warrant all this distrust. What do people expect the performance of the GK104 card (GTX660, GTX760 or whatever it's name will be) to be in relation to the GTX560 Ti?

It's clear that GK104 should outperform a GTX560 Ti. Let's say it's ~30% better. Well that puts it in GTX580 territory. For almost half the price of an HD7970. All of a sudden the HD7970 costs ~100% more for just ~15% more performance.

I'm sorry, but paying double for just a bit of extra performance contradicts the AMD customer charta. This is what kept AMD alive for so long, in the CPU and GPU markets. You don't have to have the fastest CPU/GPU as long as you price it correctly to make it attractive. AMD already f@#&d that up with Bulldozer. So they're on a destructive pricing curve.

And you can adjust that 30% and downplay it to 25% or 20%. But that's not realistic. A new card should outperform it's predecesor by at least 30%. It's just how it is.

What makes it a nightmare for AMD is that this is their top GPU, their "enthusiast chip", their high-end, while GK104 is NVIDIA's "performance chip", or mid-range GPU.

So whatever you read about AMD or NVIDIA right now, apart from being a fabrication and a complete joke, is rendered nil if you just stop for a moment and think about it. Take your fanboi hat off for a minute and do some simple math. You can do some aproximations, I don't mind. Percentages in the single digits will always fall prey to erosion due to driver updates.

 

[FreedomEclipse]

I think you are an NVIDIA plant!

 

[erek]

do you guys know about the NVIDIA focus group members? seems suspicious and also highly secretive.

http://consumerist.com/2006/02/nvidia-focus-group-member-details-hidden-program.html

 

[Sihastru]

What is suspicious is that you think the other guys don't have a similar focus group. Every company has "focus" groups.

 

[ensabrenoir]

This all sounds really underhand. I wonder if AMD resorts to the same tactics? I tend to think they would.

this where amd hires their marketing department from

 

[eidairaman1]

I find how childish nvidia is being over all this, denial is the first stage now insults, next is welcome to reality and acceptance of being so ignorant.

 

[kajson]

A HD7970 is on average 31% faster then an HD6970 (previous AMD top GPU), and just 12% faster then an GTX580 (current NVIDIA top GPU) at 1920x1200.

If we talk about performance per dollar, at 1200p, the GTX580 actually has an advatage, because the AMD cards have their prices very much inflated, especially in Europe, and you pay a lot more for that 12% performance advatage.

The same HD7970 is about 50% faster then the current mid-range NVIDIA GPU, the GTX560 Ti (vanilla, not the special edition 448 core) at the same 1200p resolution. I'm not going to say how much more bang for the buck you get with the GTX560 Ti because it's embarrasing for the AMD card.

This is all according to TPU.

What I'm wondering now, it's how much performance do people expect for the GK104 card priced at $300 to warrant all this distrust. What do people expect the performance of the GK104 card (GTX660, GTX760 or whatever it's name will be) to be in relation to the GTX560 Ti?

It's clear that GK104 should outperform a GTX560 Ti. Let's say it's ~30% better. Well that puts it in GTX580 territory. For almost half the price of an HD7970. All of a sudden the HD7970 costs ~100% more for just ~15% more performance.

I'm sorry, but paying double for just a bit of extra performance contradicts the AMD customer charta. This is what kept AMD alive for so long, in the CPU and GPU markets. You don't have to have the fastest CPU/GPU as long as you price it correctly to make it attractive. AMD already f@#&d that up with Bulldozer. So they're on a destructive pricing curve.

And you can adjust that 30% and downplay it to 25% or 20%. But that's not realistic. A new card should outperform it's predecesor by at least 30%. It's just how it is.

What makes it a nightmare for AMD is that this is their top GPU, their "enthusiast chip", their high-end, while GK104 is NVIDIA's "performance chip", or mid-range GPU.

Lucky for AMD it was only a nightmare.... But seriously do you expect Nvidia to put a product on the shelf of similar performance as the 580 at 60% of the price of a 580? (murdering profit margins on the 580)
Ofc AMD will lower their somewhat ridiculous prices when Nvidia launches their next gen, but the current prices are based on the performance vs current top NVidia cards, not on production costs. Combined with catering to the people for whom money is no object as long as they have the newest of the newest.

And if Nvidia is really owning em in performance with their also virtual top segment, we'll see a 7990 at current 7970 price or the 8xxx series within max 12~15 months, as that seems to be the current development speed per generation

 

[Benetanegia]

Lucky for AMD it was only a nightmare.... But seriously do you expect Nvidia to put a product on the shelf of similar performance as the 580 at 60% of the price of a 580? (murdering profit margins on the 580)

8800GT? GTX460? It wouldn't be the first time at all. And not Nvidia, but Sandy Bridge? Intel made record profits thanks to it, and SB simply made any other Intel CPU that costed more thn $300 completely obsolete. So what?

Nvidia won't loose a penny anyway. It's probably been long (months) since Nvidia sold the last GTX580. Retailers and partners still selling cards are probably just cleaning their stock. Until March/April there's lots of time too and AMD only helped by not really competing with HD7970 on the same price bracket.

Nvidia might even be giving partners/retailers some extra time when they said they would not paper launch it, giving them a good "extra" month.

 

[kajson]

8800GT? GTX460? It wouldn't be the first time at all. And not Nvidia, but Sandy Bridge? Intel made record profits thanks to it, and SB simply made any other Intel CPU that costed more thn $300 completely obsolete. So what?

Nvidia won't loose a penny anyway. It's probably been long (months) since Nvidia sold the last GTX580. Retailers and partners still selling cards are probably just cleaning their stock. Until March/April there's lots of time too and AMD only helped by not really competing with HD7970 on the same price bracket.

Nvidia might even be giving partners/retailers some extra time when they said they would not paper launch it, giving them a good "extra" month.

The Intel comparison only works if you're saying Nvidia has a totally superior product, and the profit Nvidia is turning over compared to Intel isn't really in the same ballpark healthwise.

Intel also has a way more dominant relationship with their partners/retailers as you well know. Nvidia cant afford those kinda practises towards their retailers and certainly not towards their partners, the bargaining position of Nvidia is a lot more delicate then Intels.

 

[HumanSmoke]

do you guys know about the NVIDIA focus group members? seems suspicious and also highly secretive.

Nvidia focus group guys I think announce their affiliation in their forum sig as a general rule...strangely enough, in much the same way as AMD reps do...and again, here ( http://aceshardware.freeforums.org/amd-bulldozer-preview-t1042-150.html ) :

Yes, we have said in public that IPC would be higher and single threaded performance will be higher. Anyone saying otherwise is either uninformed, or has a specific agenda.

As far as I'm aware, anyone disputing a focus group member's message is free to do so. Disputing an AMD rep's message has earned not an insignificant number of members perma-bans.
So it's not entirely one way traffic, and I wouldn't see AMD (or Intel etc) being able to claim the moral high ground in the viral/guerilla marketing arena.

 

[Hokum]

If we talk about performance per dollar, at 1200p, the GTX580 actually has an advatage, because the AMD cards have their prices very much inflated, especially in Europe, and you pay a lot more for that 12% performance advatage.

Hmm my local, Aria,

7970 £420-516

580 £357-394

That isnt a huge gap.

 

[claylomax]

This is why everything posted by any forum member should be thought of as BS. Until I see W1zz's or Daves benchmarks its all bullshit.

Who's Dave?

 

[DarkOCean]

Who's Dave?

cadaveca

 

[FreedomEclipse]

Who's Dave?

cadaceca

 

[lashton]

what!

I am an old member - but i dont recall any of this stuff

Your joking right, EVERYONE knows this not just old members!

 

[alexsubri]

GAME TIME BABY!

 

[DannibusX]

Kepler is too busy finding other planets around other stars to come back to Earth to be benchmarked.

 

[RoutedScripter]

You can get all 5 deleted overclocking.net thread pages via google cache

http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...ssy&cd=2&hl=sl&ct=clnk&gl=si&client=firefox-a

use " /xx " for page number

without = 1 page
/10 = 2 page
/40 = 5 page


I don't know why it throws on the second page , at first it did work ... it's a FF/ google bug somehow knowing that i already visited the page and makes werid things so i pasted this url.

 

[DarkOCean]

Kepler is too busy finding other planets around other stars to come back to Earth to be benchmarked.

Cant help my self thinking about that robot from portal 2 . I'm in space ,i'm in space...

 

[I blee it]

I saw on another site where someone was claiming the Kepler (680 GTX?) would be faster than the HD7970 because Kepler would have more tiny hamsters working inside their GPU. I don't think that necessarily proves Kepler will be faster though. The tiny hamsters in the Kepler GPU could be working slower than in the HD 7970 GPU.