Pirate Bay Founders Stare At Jailtime as Supreme Court Rejects Appeal

[twicksisted]

Men with large sticks will come and mess people up of course!
Just like today!

/sarcasm.

In all seriousness, I am just one person pulling answers out my arse right now, this sort of thing takes more planning and more discussion then what is going on here.

So again I ask for people to give me a break regarding this, perhaps one day I'll do a huge write up and do a whole bunch of math for everyone to enjoy.

But for now can I have a break please?

NO

hehe... a break from what? we are just mass-debating here

 

[pantherx12]

NO

hehe... a break from what? we are just mass-debating here

Asking me how stuff would be done

Usually huge teams of people deal with questions like that.

It's the sort of thing I need help with!


By the by, as I imagine this thread could get locked at some point, I'd like to thank everyone for being civil and actually you know, having a discussion rather than a flame war.

Most insults have been in passing and well frankly barely even insults.

It's nice.

 

[twicksisted]

It's the sort of thing I need help with!

im not helping you mass-debate!

 

[Maelstrom]

Men with large sticks will come and mess people up of course!
Just like today!

/sarcasm.

In all seriousness, I am just one person pulling answers out my arse right now, this sort of thing takes more planning and more discussion then what is going on here.

So again I ask for people to give me a break regarding this, perhaps one day I'll do a huge write up and do a whole bunch of math for everyone to enjoy.

But for now my brain is frazzled.

Been at work today after all

Ah np, like I said I was just curious.

 

[Easy Rhino]

who exactely determines the value of an item... the large record label or movie studio? and if the times that we live in mean that the item no longer has a value arent the large corporations just using this as a reason to carry on making a profit instead of letting technology grow and possibly benefit them.

surely since the days of the VHS cassette when all of the movie studios were shaking in their boots they have made huge profits as people began watching movies at home... remember that new technology allows for different business opportunities (iflix, netflix, lovefilm etc...)... Lets not allow some large corporations police the internet and buy favour with politicians who will censor it

(that will eventually lead to this website and many others not allowing users content or posts)

EDIT: lets remember that many years ago salt was incredibly expensive, it had a purpose (keeping meat fresh, seasoning etc...) nowdays its practically worth nothing.. time moves on unless people make laws to change that and halt progress

value is determined by demand. economics 101. demand creates supply and pushes innovation. economics 201. laws do not create supply. laws do not determine demand or value. philosophy 101. people must not teach this stuff anymore.

 

[twicksisted]

value is determined by demand. economics 101. demand creates supply and pushes innovation. economics 201. laws do not create supply. laws do not determine demand or value. philosophy 101. people must not teach this stuff anymore.

Yes thats what "we" are taught in the fantastic education system we are all legally forced into... we are also taught that "legally" printing money to get out a rescession is a fantastic idea and should be encouraged
If demand meant that there was a supply and money for it then zimbabwe and eitheopia would be fantastic business opportunities. lol... last time i checked it was $1 mill zimbabwe dollars for a loaf of bread but no one can afford it... great business model there!

Anyways if there was such a huge demand for these "essential items" like music and peoples drawings which we cannot live without apparently, then there would be the money for it as you say and the market place to exchange them... unfortunately these items can easily be copied without actually stealing them or physically taking away any property from the other person. Some call it a crime... some say that the medium is outdated and if you dont want your work to be stolen dont leave it out in the open. You wouldnt leave your handywork lying outside your workshop for everyone to take if you were a carpenter or a baker, builder etc.

 

[Easy Rhino]

Yes thats what "we" are taught in the fantastic education system we are all legally forced into... we are also taught that "legally" printing money to get out a rescession is a fantastic idea and should be encouraged
If demand meant that there was a supply and money for it then zimbabwe and eitheopia would be fantastic business opportunities. lol... last time i checked it was $1 mill zimbabwe dollars for a loaf of bread but no one can afford it... great business model there!

what? Zimbabwe and Ethiopia are not safe places to do business which is why they remain third world. there is no political stability there. bad comparison. economics 101.

Anyways if there was such a huge demand for these "essential items" like music and drawings which we cannot live without, then there would be the money for it as you say and the market place to exchange them... unfortunately these items can easily be copied without actually stealing them or physically taking away any property from the other person. Some call it a crime... some say that the medium is outdated and if you dont want your work to be stolen dont leave it out in the open. You wouldnt leave your handywork lying outside your workshop for everyone to take if you were a carpenter or a baker, builder etc...

there is money for art. are you posting while on drugs? and just because i accidently leave my tools out doesnt justify the theft of them. come on. do better!!

 

[blibba]

Supply, demand and money. Communism, which is exactly what you are talking about is rather dead. I suppose you could always take up some sort of revolution and have folks join your communistic rebellion against the profiteers... Or just go stand somewhere with the so called "99%"

Wow man. I've not read this whole thread, but you seriously drop in my estimations for that. Are you really taking the piss out of someone for having morals when society doesn't? What exactly is it about having the good fortune to be born with a certain set of talents and into a certain family that makes you deserving of great wealth?

Please tell me I've taken you drastically out of context.

 

[twicksisted]

what? Zimbabwe and Ethiopia are not safe places to do business which is why they remain third world. there is no political stability there. bad comparison. economics 101.


there is money for art. are you posting while on drugs? and just because i accidently leave my tools out doesnt justify the theft of them. come on. do better!!

You been to zim, or ethiopia, i have (im south african, born in africa). Last time i checked libya, iraq and afganistan were the unsafest places in the world to live yet theres billions being made by large corporations and cartels over there.

If you really want to see political unrest you need to have a look at the fantastically democratic and wonderful USA lol... you wont see it on the news but the occupy movement is still in full swing and god knows what will happen with their elections and new president... if you want to see unrest look there, not africa

dont kid yourself with this petty arguement of copyright, youre playing into large corps hands nicely, its got nothing to do with helping an artist like themailman with his drawing of tigger or whatever it was.... soon youll be playing the SOPA, PIPA & ACTA tunes all the way till your internet gets cut off and bubba is nailing you from behind gently from your jailcell for uploading a youtube clip with someones copyrighted music in mistakedly

If there was money left over to spend on art we wouldnt be having this discussion. We are talking about this because people arent paying for shitty hollywood movies or major record labels bullshit music
If we all had to pay for air since birth we would, then one day if someone found out that we diddnt have to we wouldnt.. its as simple as that. People wont stop making music or drawing... do you rreally think that?

 

[AphexDreamer]

value is determined by demand. economics 101. demand creates supply and pushes innovation. economics 201. laws do not create supply. laws do not determine demand or value. philosophy 101. people must not teach this stuff anymore.

I think there are a few more factors when determining the value of art.

there is money for art. are you posting while on drugs? and just because i accidently leave my tools out doesnt justify the theft of them. come on. do better!!

Yes there is money for art, but was art the cause of money or money the cause of art? People will make art regardless of whether money is involved or not. Also your view on piracy remains distorted. You keep saying theft but it isn't like physically taking something at all. I have what you still have.

 

[twicksisted]

laws do not create supply.

So you see no reason for people to bribe a politician then... theres nothing that he could possibly do to profit himself or a large "sponsor".
You also dont see how gaining control over the internet through law could benefit big business... you need to go back to your economics classes as even as flawed as they are, they would show you those basics

 

[Easy Rhino]

You been to zim, or ethiopia, i have (im south african, born in africa). Last time i checked libya, iraq and afganistan were the unsafest places in the world to live yet theres billions being made by large corporations and cartels over there.

you dont have to go to zim or ethiopia to understand economics. they are unsafe so business does not thrive there. iraq and afghanistan are also unsafe and are also poor as dirt. they only reason they have anything at all is because of oil. africa has a lot of oil but it is not used because it is not safe. believe it or not iraq and the entire middle east was once a great place to do business.

dont kid yourself with this petty arguement of copyright, youre playing into large corps hands nicely, its got nothing to do with helping an artist like themailman with his drawing of tigger or whatever it was.... soon youll be playing the SOPA, PIPA & ACTA tunes all the way till your internet gets cut off and bubba is nailing you from behind gently from your jailcell for uploading a youtube clip with someones copyrighted music in mistakedly

im not standing up for SOPA/PIPA or any similar legislation. im standing against THEFT. piracy is theft because you are using something you have not paid for and have not been given permission by the owner or creator to use. what's worse, you demand other people pay for these things because they simply would not exist without the profit motive.

If there was money left over to spend on art we wouldnt be having this discussion. We are talking about this because people arent paying for shitty hollywood movies or major record labels bullshit music
If we all had to pay for air since birth we would, then one day if someone found out that we diddnt have to we wouldnt.. its as simple as that. People wont stop making music or drawing... do you rreally think that?

you think only people who lack money steal? people shouldnt pay for shitty hollywood movies or music. but they also shouldnt watch them or listen to them and not pay for them. how is this a complicated matter? i weep for this young generation.

 

[johnspack]

There is so much bribing and big money going around on this it isn't funny. Are you kidding? Google is going for stock exchange listing, to show the us government they aren't to mess with, and here's a few mil to shut up. Many file sharing services that host copyrighted material are still up, and nothing. It's all about who has the money. That's all this crap is about. Period. And the large multi-billion dollar industries who want even more, and are in the pockets of the us politicians. Everyone wants money, don't they?

 

[twicksisted]

you dont have to go to zim or ethiopia to understand economics. they are unsafe so business does not thrive there. iraq and afghanistan are also unsafe and are also poor as dirt. they only reason they have anything at all is because of oil. africa has a lot of oil but it is not used because it is not safe. believe it or not iraq and the entire middle east was once a great place to do business.



im not standing up for SOPA/PIPA or any similar legislation. im standing against THEFT. piracy is theft because you are using something you have not paid for and have not been given permission by the owner or creator to use. what's worse, you demand other people pay for these things because they simply would not exist without the profit motive.



you think only people who lack money steal? people shouldnt pay for shitty hollywood movies or music. but they also shouldnt watch them or listen to them and not pay for them. how is this a complicated matter? i weep for this young generation.

I totally see where you are coming from... i even worked as a label manager for a couple of years for a 2 major record labels ... I defended catching pirates and protecting profits. I have changed my views on things after a lot of thought and understanding. Im not defending theft, im defending personal liberty.

You have to understand when you talk about poor third world countrys that the first world is actually making billions out of them... the people are poor of course, but the major corporations are coining it through raping their natural resources and not putting them back into the countrys. The more instable a region the more profit there is to be made... (or perhaps the more potential profit there is in an inaccesible region, making it unstable will mean easier legal (NATO) access to its profit).

Whats happening here with the copyright smokescreen (read:bullshit) is a theft of liberty... very soon laws made be that affect all of our freedom and we shouldnt let ourselves be fooled by the arguement of copyright on someones crappy MP3 track.

Was there no art or music being successfully sold before the invention of the internet?
Why is art and music so important that it needs to completely revamp the way that the internet is used and take it away from the people to be policed and watched over?

 

[silkstone]

no. the people who make the content will stop producing it. that means there will be nothing to steal because the people who are paid to make it will simply stop making it.

This is overly simplifying things. There will always be a demand for creative works, no matter how many people copy it and those people making the creative works will still earn.

Not all work is commissioned. Some is very generic and sold through a service. When someone DLs a sample of my work and uses it for profit I get nothing. Only when they pay my distributor do I get a cut. Savvy?

Now if I can prove someone used my art without paying for it I can sue. But I cannot afford to do that all the time. It happens a LOT. But my distributer can. They are like my pimp.

I bolded the important part. I agree with this to an extent, other people should not Profit from your work. The argument is not black and white, there are also people who pirate things not for profit.

And currently, i work my ass off so other people who do very little can profit from it. This will always be the case... My boss is a pirate god damn it! (along with all the CEOs, shareholders, Bankers, etc)

Its the commie education system.

Communism is the opposite of absolute Capitalism. Absolute capitalism (what to US is moving to) puts the money and power into the hands of the very few. Communism stifles creativity and production. Both are just as open to corruption.

Before you say that you are against communism in all forms and only pro-capitalism, take a look at your armed forces or your social security system. Although i guess these could be classes as socialist policies as communism is economic.

greedy bastards

I see wut u did there

Who decides who earns what?*

Surely the very act of creating a home and cultivating the land means you have earned it.

*Rhetorical question obviously, it's banks,government and people who buy up houses and land in order to make profit.

There was an interesting news article here not long ago. A family had a large plot of worthless land allocated to them (on a lease based system) They worked their asses off and made the land fertile and productive. It was then decided to take the land off them as it was near the end of the lease. Needless to say, they came out with shotguns and grenades.

Supply, demand and money. Communism, which is exactly what you are talking about is rather dead. I suppose you could always take up some sort of revolution and have folks join your communistic rebellion against the profiteers... Or just go stand somewhere with the so called "99%"

Communism is alive and well in the majority of the world. see my above comments.
There has to be a balance, it should not be one or the other.

value is determined by demand. economics 101. demand creates supply and pushes innovation. economics 201. laws do not create supply. laws do not determine demand or value. philosophy 101. people must not teach this stuff anymore.

It's fairly easy to create artificial demand and artificially inflate prices, especially if you have a monopoly.

you think only people who lack money steal? people shouldnt pay for shitty hollywood movies or music. but they also shouldnt watch them or listen to them and not pay for them. how is this a complicated matter? i weep for this young generation.

And you shouldn't be able to look directly at the queen without being royalty on punishment of having your eyes gouged out.

 

[johnspack]

And blaming us poor people, like me, for piracy is bullshit. Most people who pirate actually can afford the stuff. I'm on a fixed income, on permanent disablility, I can't make more money, but they tell me to get a job. The people who have the equipment to mass dl and distribute warez tend to have plenty of money. It's kind of like script kiddies, I'll do it because I can. That's the typical american ideology of the spoilt rich kid, who dls mp3s like there's no tomorrow, but that's somehow all right. I have one sim I play right now, and you know what, that's good enough! Because all of the garbage being made right now is not worth the effort. We all know it. Why don't we do something about it? Why should anyone pay for garbage? I won't dl it, I guarantee it. I'm poor and proud of it. Eat the rich.

 

[TheMailMan78]

Silkstone America hasn't been anywhere near a absolute capitalism since before the first world war. We are heading even farther from it now. What we are becoming are corporatists. Capitalism is vastly superior to communism. Just look at any communist nation to see that. If we were going back to our Capitalism roots we wouldnt be doing bailouts.

FYI Social Security is the biggest socialist scam the US government ever came up with. Its a horrible system that should be scrapped. Also there are only 5 communist nations left in the world. I wouldn't call that the "majority". I would call that a failing ideology.

 

[silkstone]

Silkstone America hasn't been anywhere near a absolute capitalism since before the first world war. We are heading even farther from it now. What we are becoming are corporatists. Capitalism is vastly superior to communism. Just look at any communist nation to see that. If we were going back to our Capitalism roots we wouldnt be doing bailouts.

FYI Social Security is the biggest socialist scam the US government ever came up with. Its a horrible system that should be scrapped. Also there are only 5 communist nations left in the world. I wouldn't call that the "majority". I would call that a failing ideology.

No nations ever actually achieved communism. The closest anyone came was the khmer rouge, and we all know how badly that turned out. The only remaining comunost country I can think of is north korea and we can also see how that is going for it's people. All other countries have communist/socialist policies to some extent.

While the social security system may be a bad thing. How about the armed forces, education or basic medical care. Shoyld those be turned over to corporations?

All I am saying is there needs to be balance. The big media corporations should not have all of the control over distribution just like a government should not have all the conteol over it's people. Today, the large media interest groups are extremely powerful.

 

[johnspack]

The fact of the matter is, it's the spoilt rich kids of the us that made this happen. That's the funny part! They won't admit it, but the americans did this to us, and now the world has to pay for it. Amazing. I'm sorry, but it's just so dam stupid.

 

[TheMailMan78]

The fact of the matter is, it's the spoilt rich kids of the us that made this happen. That's the funny part! They won't admit it, but the americans did this to us, and now the world has to pay for it. Amazing. I'm sorry, but it's just so dam stupid.

Americans didn't do anything to you. Your government did.

 

[twilyth]

The fact of the matter is, it's the spoilt rich kids of the us that made this happen. That's the funny part! They won't admit it, but the americans did this to us, and now the world has to pay for it. Amazing. I'm sorry, but it's just so dam stupid.

There's probably some truth to that, but not in the sense that Americans are evil. We just happened to be on the leading edge. But I learned about the internet before the web existed. That's hard to imagine now, but there was such a time. People were uploading binaries (media, software, etc) to usenet and it just amazed me. We're talking about software packages that could cost thousands of dollars. And no one made a peep about it. But dl'ing binaries could be a tortuous process and involved many individual steps with the newreaders available at the time. As a result, it was probably a very small community that even knew about these things. However the profit potential was obvious.

Even so, distribution still involved marketing and even advertising. So either you were a geek and could access this stuff on your own (we won't get into issues like retention rates) or you had to have access to a distributor who would get what you wanted. Of course in the latter case, that made them pretty easy to bust. So the natural evolution was to make a one click solution.

And even then, the problem wasn't huge since most people were on dial-up. In fact I sometimes wonder if the bloatware of the 90's wasn't a roundabout way of discouraging this practice. But once a big chunk of the population had broadband . . . well, then it was just a feeding frenzy.

 

[johnspack]

If you want to help fight this, go to http://www.peerblock.com/releases and at the bottom dl peerblock. Then install it, and go to http://www.iblocklist.com/lists.php and add level1 and Primary Threats. Then let it run and see what us crap is scanning you. I am collecting ap2p scanners, and am going to send cease and desist letters to all of them. I am just surfing the dam internet, why are they port pounding me? Did I mention I make sure not to dl illegal content? I am willing to take this to a legal matter, and have others join me. I don't need american companies port pounding me, with the ap2p moniker, all the time now, when I'm not doing anything illegal. This is why I make sure I'm legal, so I can prove these port poundings are illegal, and I can press charges against these american isps allowing this shit. Refuse all media. Join the Boycott now! Fight now, or lose your freedom.

 

[TheMailMan78]

If you want to help fight this, go to http://www.peerblock.com/releases and at the bottom dl peerblock. Then install it, and go to http://www.iblocklist.com/lists.php and add level1 and Primary Threats. Then let it run and see what us crap is scanning you. I am collecting ap2p scanners, and am going to send cease and desist letters to all of them. I am just surfing the dam internet, why are they port pounding me? Did I mention I make sure not to dl illegal content? I am willing to take this to a legal matter, and have others join me. I don't need american companies port pounding me, with the ap2p moniker, all the time now, when I'm not doing anything illegal. This is why I make sure I'm legal, so I can prove these port poundings are illegal, and I can press charges against these american isps allowing this shit. Refuse all media. Join the Boycott now! Fight now, or lose your freedom.

You should do that. Thats gonna be funny. Report back with results.

 

[MilkyWay]

Social democracy is different to Communism, look at Norway compared to say Cuba. Socialism comes in many forms. Anarchist communism is what pantherx12 is talking about. Im more for a Social market economy rather than a total socialist market by state ownership. A free market is all well but you cant expect a totally fair market forever without some form of independent regulation.

If you will for example: your country extradites you for copyright infringement even though that's not illegal in your country, your country is partially at fault because it could have told the USA to go fuck itself and stay out of its internal matters. Currently a US company would have to bring about legal proceeding in the other nation or get the person extradited. If im in the US and break a law then im liable doesn't matter where i am originally from.

ACTA would change all that. Then i would literally be able to have legal proceedings brought about on me for things that may not even be illegal in my county.

If i make a backup or download a backup of a program this is legal in the UK, its fair use, literally the same as if i was to send someone a page of a copyrighted article, loan a DVD to someone, use footage for journalistic purposes ah but after ACTA it would be illegal to share such material. ACTA would have 3rd party liability for ISPs, ISPs will be forced to monitor and censor its users, among other things.

 

[johnspack]

And why shouldn't I do that MailMan? Is your government so dam superior, and oblivious to human civil rights? I don't want your dam isps port hammering me for no reason. You americans like to sue right? Why shouldn't I? Come on.... I've been waiting for this debate....