Philips Readies its Own 27-inch AMVA Display

[Ferrum Master]

I think what Derek12 was trying to say is that LED backlight can last longer (it's not prone to tinting/dimming as the CCFL is).

However it also depends on the quality of the CCFL, on my last monitor (cheap TN panel) I had to set brightness to maximum to even get a somewhat acceptable bright screen due to CCFL being so old.
Now I have it at 8% and after time the CCFL will wear out yes but I can just correct it by setting it at 12-13% and since there is so much headroom it can last a long time.

But you are right about PWM flicker, very harsh blue light etc. that is the reason that CCFL is still used in newer semi-pro monitors.

AMOLED would be too expensive to make, next step is OLED for monitors but we will see what kind of downsides that has.

You are right of course! But I wished to say.. LED's are not eternal too... Dumb example, you've seen those big advertisement screens using multi segment LED matrix? Those high power led tend to make failures very fast just as mere Zener diodes do. Those nasty burned out segments... It is like Russian space rocket launch success rate.

You are right about putting at lower power settings extends the life span of any device I suppose. The only thing that personally for me failed with ccfl were only inverters... but that is a easy fix. And I bet I was at fault that it broke, due to mechanical shock btw - alcohol you know And if it is cheap china it will be cheap china. We all know that.

OLED yes they fade out and the color balance drives in hell... I make my living as mobile phone technician for certain manufacturers. I've seen the first pioneering technologies and results after many years of using the device... first that were mass produced using early OLED's were Nokia 8800 ARTE and same display unit in 7900 and then N85 and N86, after a year their color black level shifted to something bizarre like, of course only on heavy users! Same is with newer SAMOLED units... color balance is so shifted... The technology is still to RAW and undeveloped. I have a Nokia N9 also(big and fast flashdrive), it has the best contrast ratio in the current market, yes indeed, and those deep blacks also, but but... pentile matrix and low resolution, we have to wait for few years still.

Our future are in sLCD and and super IPS tech from Sony, LG and SHARP. Not any of OLED techs.


@3870x2

LoL moisture? No, it is the way of semiconductor degradation graph depending on the chemistry of each light emitter.

 

[repman244]

You are right of course! But I wished to say.. LED's are not eternal too... Dumb example, you've seen those big advertisement screens using multi segment LED matrix? Those high power led tend to make failures very fast just as mere Zener diodes do. Those nasty burned out segments... It is like Russian space rocket launch success rate.

You are right about putting at lower power settings extends the life span of any device I suppose. The only thing that personally for me failed with ccfl were only inverters... but that is a easy fix. And I bet I was at fault that it broke, due to mechanical shock btw - alcohol you know And if it is cheap china it will be cheap china. We all know that.

OLED yes they fade out and the color balance drives in hell... I make my living as mobile phone technician for certain manufacturers. I've seen the first pioneering technologies and results after many years of using the device... first that were mass produced using early OLED's were Nokia 8800 ARTE and same display unit in 7900 and then N85 and N86, after a year their color black level shifted to something bizarre like, of course only on heavy users! Same is with newer SAMOLED units... color balance is so shifted... The technology is still to RAW and undeveloped. I have a Nokia N9 also(big and fast flashdrive), it has the best contrast ratio in the current market, yes indeed, and those deep blacks also, but but... pentile matrix and low resolution, we have to wait for few years still.

Our future are in sLCD and and super IPS tech from Sony, LG and SHARP. Not any of OLED techs.

Yeah I've seen those, (just a quick note, Soyuz is the cheapest and most reliable rocket to get you into space don't underestimate simplicity )

Yeah I guess OLED still has it's "serious" issues to replace the monitors currently in use.
The issues could be that current AMOLED / OLED or any other LED panel technology currently in use in phones are geared towards phones and acceptable levels of colour accuracy but the trade off is that you get more battery life vs LCD (not on white screens tho) which I think it's the most important factor when it comes to phones.
Many 720p phone screens that are S-LCD have quite high battery consumption.

Personally I prefer LCD screen on phones (I did own an AMOLED screen but it's so fake and they have a blue tint on white pages), currently have an S-LCD (HTC) (I suppose it's IPS screen) on my phone and when I change it I won't get an AMOLED due to issues you described (pen-tile matrix, blown contrast and tinting).

Not to mention I noticed burn-in on some AMOLED screens.

 

[Ferrum Master]

Yeah I've seen those, (just a quick note, Soyuz is the cheapest and most reliable rocket to get you into space don't underestimate simplicity )

Yeah I guess OLED still has it's "serious" issues to replace the monitors currently in use.
The issues could be that current AMOLED / OLED or any other LED panel technology currently in use in phones are geared towards phones and acceptable levels of colour accuracy but the trade off is that you get more battery life vs LCD (not on white screens tho) which I think it's the most important factor when it comes to phones.
Many 720p phone screens that are S-LCD have quite high battery consumption.

Personally I prefer LCD screen on phones (I did own an AMOLED screen but it's so fake and they have a blue tint on white pages), currently have an S-LCD (HTC) (I suppose it's IPS screen) on my phone and when I change it I won't get an AMOLED due to issues you described (pen-tile matrix, blown contrast and tinting).

Not to mention I noticed burn-in on some AMOLED screens.

I like LG IPS screens very, there for I use O2X, the second thing, LG is the cheapest one. Example if you broke a screen for LG Optimus 2X it costs you around 20$ if for Samsung Galaxy S2 it costs you 160$ (manufacturer costs for authorized service locations only btw!) Ok, but that is the Jewish matter . I guess you own HTC Sensation then...
But LG sucks at updates, that is out of question. They suck, despite they make fine hardware. HTC are fine people, I've spoken to some the insider Taiwanese tech guys, they are very helpful, but shy, as true Asians are(I am the European barbarian ), but their hardware and manufacturing style sucks... I cannot tell why, sorry.

Soyuz lol. You know what is the cause of recent failures so much for them? The gossip says from the internals that the at last they upgraded from 70ties tube generation that lifted up even Gagarin (space is the last place where tubes are used due to radiation immunity) to semiconductor transistors and microcontrolers . So now the beta tests still concludes . I guess GlonASS still doesn't work at full capacity also, despite Putin's promises...

I guess we all have to wait for the 4K generation to come... but I guess that is impossible... Because of graphics cards... Ok I'll tell my opinion...

You know guys that Nvidia restricted voltage mods on 6xx series, let us submerge in past with Fermi and the 40nm tech process. Nvidia babbled about double precision Physix etc... the bigger e-peen stuff over AMD etc...

We all know that Fermi failed due to fact it is impossible to make a GPU with more than 5 Billion transistors on board at this tech node. They heat, yields are very low etc. Now the Kepler, what they did? GK110 is sold and cherry picked only as Tesla for the same reasons and it sold for many K$ bucks. The lower the tech process is the more fragile are the highly complex microprocessor structures as GPU is. There are no more complex IC's that uses so much transistors as GPU's it is a state of art thing in my opinnion.
And for unknown reasons AMD does the same with comparable transistor budget. Those ain't no Illuminati theories, it just plain physics. The next gen from the first slide shows seems the same. The same transistor budget numbers. They prevent overvolting due to the fact that their products are not as prone as they were and they are protecting themselves from RMA issues. But they were gentleman enough to not blame end users on it but dealers.

So my point is... 4K will bring up such serious performance upgrade needs in graphics department. I guess the current technologies aren't capable of delivering it yet, we have to wait for graphene for complex structures. There for the artificial brake in the monitor market.

That is only my theory and opinion. I would be grateful to talk about it more.


OK guys Hawken Beta soon starts... I guess we will meet there!

 

[repman244]

I like LG IPS screens very, there for I use O2X, the second thing, LG is the cheapest one. Example if you broke a screen for LG Optimus 2X it costs you around 20$ if for Samsung Galaxy S2 it costs you 160$ (manufacturer costs for authorized service locations only btw!) Ok, but that is the Jewish matter . I guess you own HTC One X then...
But LG sucks at updates, that is out of question. They suck, despite they make fine hardware. HTC are fine people, I've spoken to some the insider Taiwanese tech guys, they are very helpful, but shy, as true Asians are(I am the European barbarian ), but their hardware and manufacturing style sucks... I cannot tell why, sorry.

Soyuz lol. You know what is the cause of recent failures so much for them? The gossip says from the internals that the at last they upgraded from 70ties tube generation that lifted up even Gagarin (space is the last place where tubes are used due to radiation immunity) to semiconductor transistors and microcontrolers . So now the beta tests still concludes . I guess GlonaASS still doesn't work at full capacity also, despite Putin's promises...

I guess we all have to wait for the 4K generation to come... but I guess that is impossible... Because of graphics cards... Ok I'll tell my opinion...

You know guys that Nvidia restricted voltage mods on 6xx series, let us submerge in past with Fermi and the 40nm tech process. Nvidia babbled about double precision Physix etc... the bigger e-peen stuff over AMD etc...

We all know that Fermi failed due to fact it is impossible to make a GPU with more than 5 Billion transistors on board at this tech node. They heat, yields are very low etc. Now the Kepler, what they did? GK110 is sold and cherry picked only as Tesla for the same reasons and it sold for many K$ bucks. The lower the tech process is the more fragile are the highly complex microprocessor structures as GPU is. There are no more complex IC's that uses so much transistors as GPU's it is a state of art thing in my opinnion.
And for unknown reasons AMD does the same with comparable transistor budget. Those ain't no Illuminati theories, it just plain physics. The next gen from the first slide shows seems the same. The same transistor budget numbers. They prevent overvolting due to the fact that their products are not as prone as they were and they are protecting themselves from RMA issues. But they were gentleman enough to not blame end users on it but dealers.

So my point is... 4K will bring up such serious performance upgrade needs in graphics department. I guess the current technologies aren't capable of delivering it yet, we have to wait for grapheme for complex structures. There for the artificial brake in the monitor market.

That is only my theory and opinion. I would be grateful to talk about it more.


OK guys Hawken Beta soon starts... I guess we will meet there!

I have a HTC Desire, it's old but I like it so much I just can't make myself buy a new phone I'm not bothered with updates because I rooted it the first day I got it (I'm running android 4.1 now ).

Well space is a harsh place and modern technology often fails there and you have to resort to older and proven It's similar to the "CPU" used in mars rover, smartphones are much faster than what's used in there but would fail due to radiation and harsh environment.

4k is next but I fear it will be a very very long time before it's affordable.

 

[Ferrum Master]

I have a HTC Desire, it's old but I like it so much I just can't make myself buy a new phone I'm not bothered with updates because I rooted it the first day I got it (I'm running android 4.1 now ).

Well space is a harsh place and modern technology often fails there and you have to resort to older and proven It's similar to the "CPU" used in mars rover, smartphones are much faster than what's used in there but would fail due to radiation and harsh environment.

4k is next but I fear it will be a very very long time before it's affordable.

My GF had a Desire, you know the story that HTC cheated and due to amoled shortage they later shipped Desires with LCD screens.

That crippled thing and struggle with application memory... I hated that device btw, she tortured me that she cannot install any apps anymore etc and the whining and crying as i am a tech guy(you can image the curse), I've maintained custom roms, I even thought her to maintain them for herself and use XDA properly, but still the device is crippled.

Hah Curiosity! BTW I've played with rare earth magnet powered electro motor same as used in curiosity... it costs 600$, but the sucker works from 0.7V! Life is so much fun if you ain't blind btw. Life offers so much opportunities.

But yes... 4K is a far future. Phone business attracts so much money that it develops at current moment at the fastest rates, and we PC guys must put our eyes on it also.

 

[Derek12]

I can tell you one... it is same in sound, some have musical golden ears some don't, same is about sight and color sense. The natural sense balance.

If you measure the spectral artificial white light you'll notice it has several uneven spikes of each wavelength...

Something like that in the image, but way worse... btw same is is with CCFL but more even character...

http://www.overclockers.ru/images/lab/2012/07/03/1/013_G2_return.png

So. I am trying to say, if to some LED backlit is acceptable. I truly envy you, that you like LED light etc..., so far I've only accepted few RGB solutions, but none with blue leds... the color seems to way off and it irritates me so much deep inside... it is a very subjective thing, there for I mentioned the example with sound. It is the same I suppose - very personal matter of taste.

About that LED vs CCFL life span. I really don't use things over two years, but if I like them... an example of me and my monitor - I sent my HP monitor to RMA at end of third year of warranty and swapped the whole unit... new lamps inside... where is the problem?

The next thing... I really hate the PWM dimming method of LED's. My eyes hurt watching it... using on max brightness also hurts my eyes during nights... it is like sitting in front of a CRT .

BTW I feel sorry also for your monitor... unexpected money spending before Xmas... not fun indeed...

Many thanks for you brilliant explanation, I was under impression white LEDs had full uniform spectrum coverage as incandescent bulbs. Yeah I have some LED lamps in my desk lamp and bathrooms because CFL fails if turned it on and off repeatedly and electric bills expensive here.

Yeah I also don't like PWM at a low frequencies too the flicker is very noticeable!! I prefer higher frequency or voltage dimming as my phone does.

My monitor was very old (made in 2004) and it was a gift for me, despite the age it was perfect and had great image, but the CCFLs showed signs of aging and the lamps weren't easily replaceable .