MSI GTX 780 Lightning 3 GB

[EarthDog]

I wonder, those with this card, how quickly they run into the power limit... I see one person rocking a 1200 base core so around 1350 boost. re you actually holding the boost bin or are you throttling? Do you have the new bios that gives 300% on the ln2 bios?

Our review is done, but at this moment the card is flawed. The 109% limit is hit really quick, and the new bios for 300% limit doesn't work right (shows power use in AB at 250% at stock speed and voltage). This will be a great card when they get the bios sorted...


EDIT: Wait, what was the ACTUAL boost clock achieved? I see the setting, but I do not see the actual boost clocks listed in the overclocking section...

 

[AsRock]

Great review as always however the i think the pricing is messed with the 7990 as you can get one as low as $620.

 

[radrok]

Great review as always however the i think the pricing is messed with the 7990 as you can get one as low as $620.

The 7990 is in a completely different segment IMHO.

The 780L is basically a tweaking/over clocking card while the 7990 is just a regular card.

I honestly find it hard to compare them even with a similar price because they target two completely different kind of enthusiasts.

 

[haswrong]

I may get a classy when/if price drops come amd 9xxx release.

classified prices do not usually drop. you may want to wait for classified maxwell.

 

[Amrael]

classified prices do not usually drop. you may want to wait for classified maxwell.

classified maxwell?

 

[haswrong]

classified maxwell?

the code name for next step in nvidias gpu architecture after kepler. i personally do not believe in a price drop of gtx780 classified.

 

[Amrael]

the code name for next step in nvidias gpu architecture after kepler. i personally do not believe in a price drop of gtx780 classified.

Oh ok, yeah I don't believe they will drop in price anytime soon either. Well I gotta say even with all the flaws of these high end classifieds and lightnings, the manufacture is mostly excellent even with the crappy Elpida chips but I am nonetheless super disappointed with the low power limit and borderline active attempts to limit overclocking. If you want to get the most out of it you have to most certainly break warranty which I find really unfair after a ~700+ price tag. I got one and have the same complaints as everyone else, apart from that performance wise I am pleased but my wallet still hurts a bit. Are there any decent bioses around for the classified? I've tried a couple but flashed back to basic because I didn't like how the core clock worked, it was much lower? To start with so I had to overclock more and the card became really power hungry.

 

[EarthDog]

Hang in there on the Lightning... their LN2 bios will have plenty of power limit and I think goes the furthest voltage wise (1.25v)?

The classifieds sounds messed up too if its uses more power at the same clock speeds. The Lightning's LN2 bios also lowers the stock clocks, but doesnt use more power (the broken part) until you raise the power limit.

 

[AsRock]

The 7990 is in a completely different segment IMHO.

The 780L is basically a tweaking/over clocking card while the 7990 is just a regular card.

I honestly find it hard to compare them even with a similar price because they target two completely different kind of enthusiasts.

I was not disputing that and just that the pricing was incorrect ( for most of them ).

 

[haswrong]

...any decent bioses around for the classified? I've tried a couple but flashed back to basic because I didn't like how the core clock worked, it was much lower? To start with so I had to overclock more and the card became really power hungry.

in fact, you dont need too much extra energy to achieve an impressive oc if you have a good asic quality of the chip. if your gpu-z reading of asic is 80+, chances are high your card will boost itself in the 1300-1400mhz range on air without pushing its outer limits..

 

[EarthDog]

in fact, you dont need too much extra energy to achieve an impressive oc if you have a good asic quality of the chip. if your gpu-z reading of asic is 80+, chances are high your card will boost itself in the 1300-1400mhz range on air without pushing its outer limits..

1300mhz or so IS around an outer limit of boosted clocks... It is quite rare to see an unmodded 780 hit 1400mhz or frankly much above 1350. Part of that problem is the power limit is so low that it will hit it well before the 1400mhz mark.

http://hwbot.org/benchmark/unigine_...deocard_2049#start=0#interval=20#coolingType=

 

[Amrael]

1300mhz or so IS around an outer limit of boosted clocks... It is quite rare to see an unmodded 780 hit 1400mhz or frankly much above 1350. Part of that problem is the power limit is so low that it will hit it well before the 1400mhz mark.

http://hwbot.org/benchmark/unigine_...deocard_2049#start=0#interval=20#coolingType=

My card hits 1280 boost clock stably without any external software apart from Precision. I just switch to the LN2 bios, raise the power limit to 115%, over volt to the max of 38 Mv (wow) and it will get there on its own. I tried one of the bios hanging around the web, and got it to 1380 but it needed 1.26 volts and due to where I live temps become an issue then. My asic is 78.7 so its not one of the best binned chips. What I managed was 1306 core, 6760 Mem , with 1.20218 NVVDD, FBVDD 1.65, PEXVDD 1.14 and all the steps that I used to get 1280 on precision. It's not the best OC but its rock solid stable 24/7. Anyway i don't think that a 1400 Core would really move my frames up that much although it would boost my benchmark scores by maybe 2-300 points; in the end not worth my effort.

 

[EarthDog]

My question for you... Does it HOLD that clockspeed or are you throttling?

Also, the stock bios has 109% power limit on both the normal and LN2 bios. How are you getting 115%?

 

[Amrael]

My question for you... Does it HOLD that clockspeed or are you throttling?

Also, the stock bios has 109% power limit on both the normal and LN2 bios. How are you getting 115%?

Actually it depends on the load, If I put a really heavy load it will stay @ 1280/1306 core all the time. If I put a lighter load it might not get to the high numbers because it can manage the load just fine. I also used k-boost to test if stability was a problem and it runs like a charm. The stock LN2 bios has a 115% power limit. I'm certainly running the stock LN2 bios. If there is any discrepancy it came with it.

 

[EarthDog]

Yeah, my (review) sample came with 109/109. The new bios does 300% but there are other issues with it.

I am seeing throttling on my sample at 1202/1220 Mhz in Firestrike, 11, etc...

Perhaps I have a leaky sample or something but I will bang off the 109% limit without even adding voltage...I wonder if other reviews are doing the same thing, but just do not seem to notice. A lot of review sites, including TPU, do not even seem to report the actual boost clock (as it is always more than what GPUz reports) achieved or if it is even stable at that clock...

 

[Amrael]

Yeah, my (review) sample came with 109/109. The new bios does 300% but there are other issues with it.

I am seeing throttling on my sample at 1202/1220 Mhz in Firestrike, 11, etc...

Perhaps I have a leaky sample or something but I will bang off the 109% limit without even adding voltage...I wonder if other reviews are doing the same thing, but just do not seem to notice. A lot of review sites, including TPU, do not even seem to report the actual boost clock (as it is always more than what GPUz reports) achieved or if it is even stable at that clock...

Wait, we are talking about the Lightning right, sorry I was referring to my EVGA Classified. You shouldn't be seeing throttling if you have not used the extra +38Mv. There might be something wrong there. Are you using temp limits? In which benchmark/usage scenario are you seeing throttling?

 

[EarthDog]

Yes, the lightning.. this is a lightning thread... sorry, thought you had a lightning... haha!

I can, on stock clocks and voltage (1.16v actual) hit 1202 (actual boost clock), but much above that and I hit the 109% limit and it starts to drop boost bins and will not hold a stable boost clock.

As far as benchmarks.. I listed that above (Firestrike, 3D11, Unigine Heaven, etc) not power virus apps like furmark.

EDIT: Temp limits.. no. With 109% the temp limit is 94C. This thing loads to low 60's with 60% fan or so overclocked.

 

[Amrael]

Yes, the lightning.. this is a lightning thread... sorry, thought you had a lightning... haha!

I can, on stock clocks and voltage (1.16v actual) hit 1202 (actual boost clock), but much above that and I hit the 109% limit and it starts to drop boost bins and will not hold a stable boost clock.

As far as benchmarks.. I listed that above (Firestrike, 3D11, Unigine Heaven, etc) not power virus apps like furmark.

EDIT: Temp limits.. no. With 109% the temp limit is 94C. This thing loads to low 60's with 60% fan or so overclocked.

I'm hitting 66 to 71 degrees with my current OC on the Classified but I live in a tropical island and ambient temps run from 28C to 38C depending on the day so my temps are good.

Back to the Lightning, have they released the 300% power limit bios? That actually would help a lot and most of them would probably overtake the Classified in OC potential and I hope it happens so that EVGA is forced to release a higher power limit bios because I know for a fact that I'm being limited by this. I already hit 1458 core but it throttles down really quick and it sucks. Anyway, any particular reason for buying a Lightning over a Classified? I think MSI's 3 year warranty sucks for a $700+ product while EVGA at least has warranty extensions even though with the back plate and the extended warranty I went a good $30 dollars over the lightning but now I have a 10 year warranty and every time it breaks down (like in two years or so) they would be obligated to send me a new flagship vga card (even if it is refurb) or something close to the flagship of the moment. And if you are going to overclock a good safety blanket is appreciated.

 

[Krahl]

Bringing part of this thread back to life

Last week I was "lucky" to find a demo-model at a retailer in Denmark for a low 348€ which I just had to order. Afterall that's close to 200€ below regular price
Fully aware that it might just be a card that wouldnt be worth two cents if someone had been rocking LN2/absurd OCing on it. Was partly right; however only in the sense that whoever bought the card before returning it to the store had checked ASIC value and fooled around with the LN2 BIOS without causing any damage to the card.
Now I have a bloody powerful card but with a rather low ASIC value of 67.4%. Which means it doesnt go especially high on air. Have a sweetspot somewhere between +110/150 on CoreClock but thats quite low compared to what a "regular" lightning can do

TLR?
How high can I push the Core Voltage on a 24/7 without causing damage to the DIE/GPUCore? MSI Afterburner will let me give +37mV but that sounds way too excessive. I've had a GTX 670DCUII top the past 2 years which have served me well so I'm in a bit of unfamiliar territory when it comes to "safe" voltages on GTX 780s

 

[W1zzard]

0.037 mV is way too low to cause any damage. On my own rig I wouldn't even worry with +0.1 V for long term usage, but I don't have (or have ever seen) any real data to back this up.

 

[Krahl]

0.037 mV is way too low to cause any damage. On my own rig I wouldn't even worry with +0.1 V for long term usage, but I don't have (or have ever seen) any real data to back this up.

Thanks - I won't be worrying about that small amount of voltage then

I've been running a few Valley benchmarks; and I've never asked or found out whether one can trust the Gpu Mhz in top right corner?
I know that the 2.0 gpu algorithm has added some good stuff in terms of performance overall but if it's correct then my card is running 1431Mhz boost stable...and that seems excessive on a 67.4% ASIC

 

[W1zzard]

How does that seem excessive? If the card is stable and not too hot for your taste, and not too noisy, then it's fine. Clock rate has no effect on lifetime

 

[haswrong]

Thanks - I won't be worrying about that small amount of voltage then

I've been running a few Valley benchmarks; and I've never asked or found out whether one can trust the Gpu Mhz in top right corner?
I know that the 2.0 gpu algorithm has added some good stuff in terms of performance overall but if it's correct then my card is running 1431Mhz boost stable...and that seems excessive on a 67.4% ASIC

valley doesnt show the exact value on all occasions. you are better off with a riva tuner statistics server, which you can run standalone, but is most likely part of instal of msi afterburner or evga precisionx overclocking and monitoring tool. you will then configure the rt server to give you a text output on your screen, and what data to monitor. they will be displayed in real time. in some programs the priority of the layer is inhibited, so its not visible (3d mark), but maybe it can be forced to appear again. also, download kepler bios tweaker 1.25 or 1.26 if you want to load and see how the values are configured for your card. you can save your bios with gpu-z utility from w1zzard ^^ himself. if you wish to change any of those values, you will want to flash that changed bios file back to the card, do so with nvflash utility from nvidia in cmd.exe (or in bios tweaker 1.25 directly from the app itself, theres a button just fro that), it should take less than 20 seconds. if you unlock voltage though, dont forget to put back the oc slider in any overclocking app for your graphics card, as added milivolts are tied to frequency boost, and the card will wake up overclocked (and if you find the boost to be unstable, you can lower the boost range in the bios again).

 

[Krahl]

Excessive didnt provide the message I intended; another and better wording would be "too good to be true" with such a low ASIC score. Been doing a bit of OCing today with numerous crashes and what have you not being caused by me thinking it was actually able to pull such an impressive feat of an OC with the low ASIC score. I was wrong
Coreclock can run 1200 though with no voltage added while ram is ( yay ... not) Elpida and arent very friendly in terms of OCing as pr info here and basicly every other HW-site on the globe.

I'm hoping I'll be able to get closer to 1300 Coreclock with the LN2 bios and the PowerTarget of "300" /This is Spartaaaa/ though I doubt it. If this card is unwilling to clock as high as I've seen other Lightnings do I'll be left with a "pretty good" Lightning that I saved almost 200€ on.

Thanks for the info haswrong - much appreciated