The Cause Of And Fix For Radeon R9 290X And 290 Inconsistency

[EarthDog]

Qubit - Try to respond to questions we have about your assertions this thread you created instead of thanking random people and replying to a post that was clearly in jest...that or mods need to delete this thread already.

 

[the54thvoid]

I could care less where his loyalty is at the moment. I would just like to see some support of the points I mentioned... still nada.......... :shadedshu

AS it stands... Recycled recycle bin material here.

If it's build quality then I can vouch for good and bad. I'd reckon Qubit is meaning the reference design cooler which no matter how you look at it (Titan style) is a very good cooler and performs well. I had direct experience of it and it is swishy quiet and even at load, not obscene, easily gone with headphones on quiet.

However, the cooler isn't the issue to me (or others who like to abuse tech). I'm by no means a real modder but the PCB of the 'card ' to me is the most important thing. My Titan still whines if i run enough voltage through it, although it whines a hell of a lot less than my old 7970's. Likewise, everybody knows Titan could've been ugly f*cking fast(er) with a more robust voltage set up.

Then there's BIOS. It may not be a physical build quality but the BIOS is the be all and end all of a quality card. So many cards now seem to limit certain features (usually voltages) and a restrictive BIOS can detract from the fun you want to have (and flashing is scary when the first time you do it is on a slightly expensive Titan).

Then there's vendor restrictions. Nvidia's (and AMD's) commands to partners to not do this or not do that.

The quality of the physical build of a cooler per se pales when you look at the overall design and versatility quality of a card.

I mean c'mon, Nvidia rules have destroyed the credibility of the Lightning range.

Yeah, build quality isn't black and white. Noisy cooler, flimsy plastic - buy a 3rd party or block it. Not technically able to put on a new cooler - get a shop to do it for you.

 

[fullinfusion]

Who are you accusing of being a fanboi? You've got AMD cards so by the same logic that makes you an AMD fanboi no?

Try not to be an idiot all your life.

I was poking fun at ya qubit and besides my system spec, how do you know if I don't have nvidia hmmm. And nice comment about an idiot, i take you for a more respectable guy then that

 

[Steevo]

In before the lock.

 

[EarthDog]

If it's build quality then I can vouch for good and bad. I'd reckon Qubit is meaning the reference design cooler which no matter how you look at it (Titan style) is a very good cooler and performs well. I had direct experience of it and it is swishy quiet and even at load, not obscene, easily gone with headphones on quiet.

However, the cooler isn't the issue to me (or others who like to abuse tech). I'm by no means a real modder but the PCB of the 'card ' to me is the most important thing. My Titan still whines if i run enough voltage through it, although it whines a hell of a lot less than my old 7970's. Likewise, everybody knows Titan could've been ugly f*cking fast(er) with a more robust voltage set up.

Then there's BIOS. It may not be a physical build quality but the BIOS is the be all and end all of a quality card. So many cards now seem to limit certain features (usually voltages) and a restrictive BIOS can detract from the fun you want to have (and flashing is scary when the first time you do it is on a slightly expensive Titan).

Then there's vendor restrictions. Nvidia's (and AMD's) commands to partners to not do this or not do that.

The quality of the physical build of a cooler per se pales when you look at the overall design and versatility quality of a card.

I mean c'mon, Nvidia rules have destroyed the credibility of the Lightning range.

Yeah, build quality isn't black and white. Noisy cooler, flimsy plastic - buy a 3rd party or block it. Not technically able to put on a new cooler - get a shop to do it for you.

Good points... still waiting to hear it from the dude who said it and started this.... 'thread'...

 

[HammerON]

Play nice. No name calling please. I am just drinking my first cup of java so still a little grumpy...

 

[LAN_deRf_HA]

I find it a little remarkable that they did something to increase the noise rather than decrease it. I wonder what kind of clocks nvidia could ship GK110 at if they took the same "fuck it" approach.

 

[fullinfusion]

Does this driver change the earlier Amd card fan speeds? Plus good find.. now I know to wait for a re-vamped 290

 

[Crap Daddy]

I'm not expert but something seems different.

 

[15th Warlock]

First thing I did after unboxing my 290X was flip the BIOS switch to the "Uber" position, I play using headphones or my home theater, the card gets really loud but I don't see it throttle.

Gotta admit though, Nvidia's current cooling solutions are far more efficient and elegant, I don't remember ever having throtling or noise issues with my Titans, even before putting them under water. I have to agree with qubit and would really recommend waiting for non reference cards if you want to have a cooler and more silent card.

When you think about it, it's a shame AMD has to saddle card manufacturers with this issue, when you buy a card based on online reviews you expect the same performance from it, the fact that the cards that were issued to the press run faster than what you find out in the wild doesn't help AMD at all, even after using this beta drivers retail cards don't perform as well as review samples...

I just ordered an Arctic Accelero Hybrid for my 290X, I hope to kill to birds with one stone, but the truth is, cards with the reference cooler are not going to perform anywhere close to what you see in the reviews, unless you're willing to sacrifice your ears like I did

 

[erocker]

Every Nvidia card I have purchased has eventually failed. Every single one. For new cards that's 6 out of 6.

I have 5 working AMD/ATi cards sitting on a shelf.

Just sharing an experience.

 

[15th Warlock]

Every Nvidia card I have purchased has eventually failed. Every single one. For new cards that's 6 out of 6.

I have 5 working AMD/ATi cards sitting on a shelf.

Just sharing an experience.

It's funny you mention that, I mean in all my years building PCs I've never had an nvidia card die, but I've had a 9200SE, 9800Pro and X800GTO die on me, while even my good old Riva TNT2 is chugging along in one old Pentium 100Mhz PC in my father's office.

Those Radeons I mention there were highly abused though, and they burned out performing their duty, and now are resting in video card Valhalla or wherever video cards go when they die

I'm not trying to contradict your point at all, or say that one manufacturer is better than other, I mean, what are the odds that you would have all of your nvidia cards die, and me have most of my Aticards die? It was just bad fortune for us both to have such luck, you hear horror stories from both sides all the time.

The issue with the 290 though is that cards out there vary wildly on their performance, probably more than you would expect from manufacturing irregularities, and that's a real shame because that chip is a beast, too bad you need a third party cooling solution to tame it...

 

[erocker]

How about we stick to the topic of the article and the cards and not throw names at one another.

I will not close this thread, however I will be watching for poor behavior.

Thanks.

@Blin. The part you commented on has been cleaned up.

 

[the54thvoid]

The Cause Of And Fix For Radeon R9 290X And 290 Inconsistency

The Cause:

Card is designed to run near it's peak operating temperature, hitting about 94 degrees. Once there the fan MUST start blowing hard to keep it at that temp, it's already at it's defined max via BIOS. Though AMD do say it's rated to pass 100 degrees I think. Though at what point the solder weakens, who knows.
Because of it's design it will run hot. And therefore the cooling solution needs to be very aggressive to stop it tipping past.

The Fix:

Faster fan speeds from the get go increase time to Tmax and then to more aggressively cool the chip to allow it to operate near designed BIOS max default clocks.

The Proper Fix:

A better frickin' cooler.

 

[EarthDog]

The Cause:

Card is designed to run near it's peak operating temperature, hitting about 94 degrees. Once there the fan MUST start blowing hard to keep it at that temp, it's already at it's defined max via BIOS. Though AMD do say it's rated to pass 100 degrees I think. Though at what point the solder weakens, who knows.
Because of it's design it will run hot. And therefore the cooling solution needs to be very aggressive to stop it tipping past.

The Fix:

Faster fan speeds from the get go increase time to Tmax and then to more aggressively cool the chip to allow it to operate near designed BIOS max default clocks.

The Proper Fix:

A better frickin' cooler.

+1.. which has been discussed in nearly every single review thread of that kind of card...

Since the OP chooses not to respond to any of his assertions in the thread but posts and thanks people, this shit needs closed.

Reporting...:shadedshu

LOL, nice one erocker... I didn't see that until after I reported the thread, hahahahaha! If you close threads about news even though they preceeded them, this one should go that route as well IMO.

 

[qubit]

Since the OP chooses not to respond to any of his assertions in the thread but posts and thanks people, this shit needs closed.

Damn, what is it with you taking potshots at me over everything ffs?

Oh and I don't "thank random people" either. They're decent posts that get thanked, end of story. You seem to be very touchy about people thanking others generally.

Ok enough of this offtopic garbage in public - please pm me if you want to reply.

Now, what assertions do you want me to answer? I'm not gonna go looking back through the thread for you so just post them again and I'll answer you. That ok?

 

[radrok]

My Titan still whines if i run enough voltage through it

Mine does "WIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII" all along

 

[Nordic]

Mine does "WIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII" all along

[yt]
hxRoXuPjAKc
[/yt]

When I went to go find this video to respond to your post, I did not realize that the pigs name was Maxwell which just so happens to be the codename for nvideas next gpu series.

 

[EarthDog]

Now, what assertions do you want me to answer? I'm not gonna go looking back through the thread for you so just post them again and I'll answer you. That ok?

My first post..............

And YHPM. :shadedshu

Edit: next time you ask for a pm, don't insult me, lie about a pm from erocker 'approving' your thread, then put me on ignore...

 

[TheoneandonlyMrK]

It's funny you mention that, I mean in all my years building PCs I've never had an nvidia card die, but I've had a 9200SE, 9800Pro and X800GTO die on me, while even my good old Riva TNT2 is chugging along in one old Pentium 100Mhz PC in my father's office.

Those Radeons I mention there were highly abused though, and they burned out performing their duty, and now are resting in video card Valhalla or wherever video cards go when they die

I'm not trying to contradict your point at all, or say that one manufacturer is better than other, I mean, what are the odds that you would have all of your nvidia cards die, and me have most of my Aticards die? It was just bad fortune for us both to have such luck, you hear horror stories from both sides all the time.

The issue with the 290 though is that cards out there vary wildly on their performance, probably more than you would expect from manufacturing irregularities, and that's a real shame because that chip is a beast, too bad you need a third party cooling solution to tame it...

Fair enough Amd are working to fix it(imho a mild issue but then i would have the full cover block too) and the Aib partners will no doubt release the cure at some point before christmass but still, are all these people not using completely different systems in totally different cases with all sorts of fans in all sorts of ambient temps with a variable clocking system that both big vendors use a type of,, and people are surprised about variance, honestly the amount of craziness around these days is on the up, unless.

Has everyone unified on the exact same system

oh 8 Ati/amd cards = 1 death
7 Nvidia cards = 1 death

so there all even here.

 

[adulaamin]

Issues with Nvidia pricing and issues with AMD cooling. Someone should create a video card with the performance of a 780Ti/R9 290X, sell it like AMD does with their price, and cool it like Nvidia does with their 780/780Ti/Tian (Could even name it AMvidia) and maybe, just maybe, everyone will be happy.

 

[The Mac]

doubful, someone will always have a complaint.

 

[qubit]

Issues with Nvidia pricing and issues with AMD cooling. Someone should create a video card with the performance of a 780Ti/R9 290X, sell it like AMD does with their price, and cool it like Nvidia does with their 780/780Ti/Tian (Could even name it AMvidia) and maybe, just maybe, everyone will be happy.

You've cracked me up with that one!

Now to dream...

 

[Nordic]

I do wonder what could be made if the collective brainpower of both companies engineers were put together with both companies intellectual property. Saddly this is called monopoly.

 

[15th Warlock]

and people are surprised about variance, honestly the amount of craziness around these days is on the up, unless.

Has everyone unified on the exact same system.

I do not mean this as an insult man, I swear it, but I think this is a fair question: have you read the article?

I call your attention to this particular graphic:

Same exact system, same architecture, and graphic driver, do you see the discrepancy in performance, the spread is close to 15%, that definitely does not fit under normal manufacturing irregularities in my book.

Look, I talk from personal experience, check the unigine thread in our very own forums, I tried to max out my card, and my system was beat by Ivy Bridge and Sandy Bridge systems with even less OC than my Haswell CPU, the difference was so big I just quit trying to get more performance from this card.

It's so bad that my original intention was to put this card under water, but why invest all that money for a lemon? I finally just decided to get an Arctic Hybrid for it and call it a day.

This is me, a 290X owner speaking from personal experience, there are way too high discrepancies between 290X cards in the wild, and this article opened my eyes to the issue, the solution, like many others said before is to either get a third party cooler or don't get a reference card at all, sad but true, I learned my lesson the hard way unfortunately.