• Welcome to TechPowerUp Forums, Guest! Please check out our forum guidelines for info related to our community.

John Carmack Left iD Software Because He Couldn't Work on Virtual Reality

Kreij

Senior Monkey Moderator
Joined
Feb 6, 2007
Messages
13,817 (2.11/day)
Location
Cheeseland (Wisconsin, USA)
Most of you are familiar with the name John Carmack. For those who may not be, he's the legendary game developer and engineer who was one of the four founders of iD software and the creator of classic genre establishing games such as Wolfenstein 3D, Doom and Quake. If you play any first-person shooters on your PC you can add Mr. Carmack to the list of people to thank for that

After 20 some years with iD Software, Carmack became very interested in the advances of virtual reality after iD released its latest game Rage, especially with Oculus VR's Oculus Rift headset, and last August signed on to be the Chief Technology Officer (CTO) over at Oculus VR. At the time, he was splitting his time between Oculus VR and id Software. In November of 2013, Carmack left iD Software to devote all his time to working with virtual reality at Oculus VR.





One of the things that many people wondered was why would he leave iD Software? Even after iD Software was purchased by Zenimax Media (the parent company of Elder Scrolls developer Bethesda Softworks) back around June of 2009, he still had free reign to take the studio in the direction(s) he felt were in its best interest. Almost.

In a recent interview with USA Today, Carmack revealed that he tried to work out some kind of deal between Oculus and Zenimax that would allow the games he worked on at iD to appear on the Oculus Rift headset, so that the games in current development, such as Wolfenstein: The New Order and Doom 4, could be part of the technical demonstrations for the Oculus Rift.

"It would have been a huge win," says Carmack, who was still full time at id when he proposed the deal. "It seemed like a sensible plan for me."

Zenimax, however, was not interested which led to Carmack leaving iD Software so he could work on something that he felt, and still feels, will be a huge technological advancement for not only gaming, but almost all aspects of computer use in the future.

"But they couldn't come together on that which made me really sad. It was just unfortunate," Carmack says. "When it became clear that I wasn't going to have the opportunity to do any work on VR while at id software, I decided to not renew my contract."

While there are a lot of details we don't know, this sure seems like a very short-sighted move on the part of Zenimax and its investors. The latest accolades coming from both the game and simulation developers, and news media, pertaining to the recent reveal of the high-definition version of the Oculus Rift are enough to make almost any investor show a great deal of interest in the evolving technology. This is not to say that we will never see Zenimax games coming with VR support, but it would seem that being on the forefront of those who backed the technology early on would gain them a lot of love in the PR space, which would definitely be to their advantage.

View at TechPowerUp Main Site
 
Last edited:
Joined
Feb 18, 2010
Messages
1,850 (0.34/day)
System Name Eldritch
Processor AMD Ryzen 5 5800X3D
Motherboard ASUS TUF X570 Pro Wifi
Cooling Satan's butthole after going to Taco Bell
Memory 64 GB G.Skill TridentZ
Video Card(s) Vega 56
Storage 6*8TB Western Digital Blues in RAID 6, 2*512 GB Samsung 960 Pros
Display(s) Acer CB281HK
Case Phanteks Enthoo Pro PH-ES614P_BK
Audio Device(s) ASUS Xonar DX
Power Supply EVGA Supernova 750 G2
Mouse Razer Viper 8K
Software Debian Bullseye
TL;DR Zenimax didn't listen to the guy who's ideas have single-handedly revolutionized the gaming industry, now Zenimax's big aquisition is worth nothing.
 

W1zzard

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
May 14, 2004
Messages
27,975 (3.71/day)
Processor Ryzen 7 5700X
Memory 48 GB
Video Card(s) RTX 4080
Storage 2x HDD RAID 1, 3x M.2 NVMe
Display(s) 30" 2560x1600 + 19" 1280x1024
Software Windows 10 64-bit
Have there been any significant improvements in virtual reality in the last decade? Any improvement to positioning, tracking? I wrote my thesis on Augmented Reality back in the 2000s and since then people still use the same tracking systems and dream up the same applications, with what seems to be no significant progress.
 

Wrigleyvillain

PTFO or GTFO
Joined
Oct 13, 2007
Messages
7,702 (1.22/day)
Location
Chicago
System Name DarkStar
Processor i5 3570K 4.4Ghz
Motherboard Asrock Z77 Extreme 3
Cooling Apogee HD White/XSPC Razer blocks
Memory 8GB Samsung Green 1600
Video Card(s) 2 x GTX 670 4GB
Storage 2 x 120GB Samsung 830
Display(s) 27" QNIX
Case Enthoo Pro
Power Supply Seasonic Platinum 760
Mouse Steelseries Sensei
Keyboard Ducky Pro MX Black
Software Windows 8.1 x64
Right…a reality where he still develops games that matter and are, you know, fun.
 
Joined
Jul 30, 2007
Messages
6,560 (1.03/day)
System Name Vintage
Processor i7 - 3770K @ Stock
Cooling Scythe Zipang II
Memory 2x4GB Crucial DDR3
Video Card(s) MSI GTX970
Storage M4 124GB SSD// WD Black 640GB// WD Black 1TB//Samsung F3 1.5TB
Display(s) Samsung SM223BW 21.6"
Case Generic
Power Supply Corsair HX 520W
Software Windows 7
Right…a reality where he still develops games that matter and are, you know, fun.

He's a has been, lives on his former successes and hasn't done anything great for ages.
 
Joined
Oct 2, 2004
Messages
13,791 (1.87/day)
VR would help the immersion a lot. I can just imagine playing Natural Selection 2 with VR thingie where all you see is the in-game world and not half of my room, desk, monitor bezel etc. That would be awesome.
 
Joined
Jan 22, 2013
Messages
478 (0.11/day)
System Name Desktop
Processor i5 3570k
Motherboard Asrock Z77
Cooling Corsair H60
Memory G Skill 8gb 1600 mhz X 2
Video Card(s) Sapphire Radeon 7850 X 2
Storage 1 TB Velociraptor, 240GB 840 Samsung
Display(s) 27" Samsung LED X 2
Case Thermaltake V9
Power Supply Seasonic 620 W, CX600M on stand by
Software Win 8.1 64
Benchmark Scores Benches are silly
He's a has been, lives on his former successes and hasn't done anything great for ages.


Quite harsh there. He's not a has been as people actually value his work and willing to throw money at him.

A lot of hate for nothing. What have you done to judge others before they have a a chance to finish their project?
 
Joined
Feb 8, 2008
Messages
2,667 (0.43/day)
Location
Switzerland
Processor i9 9900KS ( 5 Ghz all the time )
Motherboard Asus Maximus XI Hero Z390
Cooling EK Velocity + EK D5 pump + Alphacool full copper silver 360mm radiator
Memory 16GB Corsair Dominator GT ROG Edition 3333 Mhz
Video Card(s) ASUS TUF RTX 3080 Ti 12GB OC
Storage M.2 Samsung NVMe 970 Evo Plus 250 GB + 1TB 970 Evo Plus
Display(s) Asus PG279 IPS 1440p 165Hz G-sync
Case Cooler Master H500
Power Supply Asus ROG Thor 850W
Mouse Razer Deathadder Chroma
Keyboard Rapoo
Software Win 10 64 Bit
No rage 2 ...
 
Joined
Feb 22, 2012
Messages
123 (0.03/day)
I loved Doom 3 and Rage, but I do understand where some people had issues with them. However, there isn't a single game designer id rather listen to break down the tech and talk about it than him. Cant wait to see what he brings out next, as he is one of the reasons we have a lot of these FPS games now of days.
 
Joined
Apr 30, 2012
Messages
3,881 (0.84/day)
I still remember the 1990s where VR was all the craze and arcades had VR machines/VRE Pods. If those systems kept progressing we'd be far past what Oculus Rift is offering now which is just a HD HMD.

Xenomorph in a VRE Pod

 

AsRock

TPU addict
Joined
Jun 23, 2007
Messages
19,114 (2.99/day)
Location
UK\USA
VR would help the immersion a lot. I can just imagine playing Natural Selection 2 with VR thingie where all you see is the in-game world and not half of my room, desk, monitor bezel etc. That would be awesome.

Yeah quake and doom is were it ended for me, how ever they should be getting VR in to their games anyways.

To me the Oculus Rift is too expensive at this time maybe in time it get cheaper will have to see.. For now at least i am perfectly happy with my Track IR.
 
Joined
Feb 18, 2010
Messages
1,850 (0.34/day)
System Name Eldritch
Processor AMD Ryzen 5 5800X3D
Motherboard ASUS TUF X570 Pro Wifi
Cooling Satan's butthole after going to Taco Bell
Memory 64 GB G.Skill TridentZ
Video Card(s) Vega 56
Storage 6*8TB Western Digital Blues in RAID 6, 2*512 GB Samsung 960 Pros
Display(s) Acer CB281HK
Case Phanteks Enthoo Pro PH-ES614P_BK
Audio Device(s) ASUS Xonar DX
Power Supply EVGA Supernova 750 G2
Mouse Razer Viper 8K
Software Debian Bullseye
You all seem to be confusing design and technical. Carmack never made a fun *game* (I'll disregard Commander Keen for this discussion), all he made were fantastic *engines* on which other people made fun games.
 
Joined
Apr 19, 2013
Messages
296 (0.07/day)
System Name Darkside
Processor R7 3700X
Motherboard Aorus Elite X570
Cooling Deepcool Gammaxx l240
Memory Thermaltake Toughram DDR4 3600MHz CL18
Video Card(s) Gigabyte RX Vega 64 Gaming OC
Storage ADATA & WD 500GB NVME PCIe 3.0, many WD Black 1-3TB HD
Display(s) Samsung C27JG5x
Case Thermaltake Level 20 XL
Audio Device(s) iFi xDSD / micro iTube2 / micro iCAN SE
Power Supply EVGA 750W G2
Mouse Corsair M65
Keyboard Corsair K70 LUX RGB
Benchmark Scores Not sure, don't care
TL;DR Zenimax didn't listen to the guy who's ideas have single-handedly revolutionized the gaming industry, now Zenimax's big aquisition is worth nothing.

No doubt eh?
 
Joined
Nov 25, 2012
Messages
247 (0.06/day)
Doom and Quake was where it ended for me. Doom was so much fun and still is. Quake was awesome I even made mods for Quake 1 and some Quake 2 mods. This is where a lot of popular games have come from.....

Rage - was a epic let down. It was borderlands on a different engine with a more linear story line.
Also there is no editor for Rage.
 
Joined
May 13, 2010
Messages
6,088 (1.14/day)
System Name RemixedBeast-NX
Processor Intel Xeon E5-2690 @ 2.9Ghz (8C/16T)
Motherboard Dell Inc. 08HPGT (CPU 1)
Cooling Dell Standard
Memory 24GB ECC
Video Card(s) Gigabyte Nvidia RTX2060 6GB
Storage 2TB Samsung 860 EVO SSD//2TB WD Black HDD
Display(s) Samsung SyncMaster P2350 23in @ 1920x1080 + Dell E2013H 20 in @1600x900
Case Dell Precision T3600 Chassis
Audio Device(s) Beyerdynamic DT770 Pro 80 // Fiio E7 Amp/DAC
Power Supply 630w Dell T3600 PSU
Mouse Logitech G700s/G502
Keyboard Logitech K740
Software Linux Mint 20
Benchmark Scores Network: APs: Cisco Meraki MR32, Ubiquiti Unifi AP-AC-LR and Lite Router/Sw:Meraki MX64 MS220-8P
His games were "all right"
 
Joined
Sep 15, 2011
Messages
6,778 (1.40/day)
Processor Intel® Core™ i7-13700K
Motherboard Gigabyte Z790 Aorus Elite AX
Cooling Noctua NH-D15
Memory 32GB(2x16) DDR5@6600MHz G-Skill Trident Z5
Video Card(s) ZOTAC GAMING GeForce RTX 3080 AMP Holo
Storage 2TB SK Platinum P41 SSD + 4TB SanDisk Ultra SSD + 500GB Samsung 840 EVO SSD
Display(s) Acer Predator X34 3440x1440@100Hz G-Sync
Case NZXT PHANTOM410-BK
Audio Device(s) Creative X-Fi Titanium PCIe
Power Supply Corsair 850W
Mouse Logitech Hero G502 SE
Software Windows 11 Pro - 64bit
Benchmark Scores 30FPS in NFS:Rivals
To be honest, Quake 1 was the first and THE BEST 3D shooter I have ever played. There isn't a single 3D game that I would gladly play even nowadays. Maybe Deus Ex 1, Unreal 1 and CS, but that's about it. ;)
 
Joined
Aug 22, 2007
Messages
3,597 (0.57/day)
Location
Terra
System Name :)
Processor Intel 13700k
Motherboard Gigabyte z790 UD AC
Cooling Noctua NH-D15
Memory 64GB GSKILL DDR5
Video Card(s) Gigabyte RTX 4090 Gaming OC
Storage 960GB Optane 905P U.2 SSD + 4TB PCIe4 U.2 SSD
Display(s) Alienware AW3423DW 175Hz QD-OLED + AOC Agon Pro AG276QZD2 240Hz QD-OLED
Case Fractal Design Torrent
Audio Device(s) MOTU M4 - JBL 305P MKII w/2x JL Audio 10 Sealed --- X-Fi Titanium HD - Presonus Eris E5 - JBL 4412
Power Supply Silverstone 1000W
Mouse Roccat Kain 122 AIMO
Keyboard KBD67 Lite / Mammoth75
VR HMD Reverb G2 V2
Software Win 11 Pro
To be honest, Quake 1 was the first and THE BEST 3D shooter I have ever played. There isn't a single 3D game that I would gladly play even nowadays. Maybe Deus Ex 1, Unreal 1 and CS, but that's about it. ;)

OMFG you feel almost the same way i do.
Quake 1, Unreal 1, and their mods... ahhh good times. They're still my favs to this day.
 
Joined
Apr 3, 2012
Messages
4,373 (0.94/day)
Location
St. Paul, MN
System Name Bay2- Lowerbay/ HP 3770/T3500-2+T3500-3+T3500-4/ Opti-Con/Orange/White/Grey
Processor i3 2120's/ i7 3770/ x5670's/ i5 2400/Ryzen 2700/Ryzen 2700/R7 3700x
Motherboard HP UltraSlim's/ HP mid size/ Dell T3500 workstation's/ Dell 390/B450 AorusM/B450 AorusM/B550 AorusM
Cooling All stock coolers/Grey has an H-60
Memory 2GB/ 4GB/ 12 GB 3 chan/ 4GB sammy/T-Force 16GB 3200/XPG 16GB 3000/Ballistic 3600 16GB
Video Card(s) HD2000's/ HD 2000/ 1 MSI GT710,2x MSI R7 240's/ HD4000/ Red Dragon 580/Sapphire 580/Sapphire 580
Storage ?HDD's/ 500 GB-er's/ 500 GB/2.5 Samsung 500GB HDD+WD Black 1TB/ WD Black 500GB M.2/Corsair MP600 M.2
Display(s) 1920x1080/ ViewSonic VX24568 between the rest/1080p TV-Grey
Case HP 8200 UltraSlim's/ HP 8200 mid tower/Dell T3500's/ Dell 390/SilverStone Kublai KL06/NZXT H510 W x2
Audio Device(s) Sonic Master/ onboard's/ Beeper's!
Power Supply 19.5 volt bricks/ Dell PSU/ 525W sumptin/ same/Seasonic 750 80+Gold/EVGA 500 80+/Antec 650 80+Gold
Mouse cheap GigaWire930, CMStorm Havoc + Logitech M510 wireless/iGear usb x2/MX 900 wireless kit 4 Grey
Keyboard Dynex, 2 no name, SYX and a Logitech. All full sized and USB. MX900 kit for Grey
Software Mint 18 Sylvia/ Opti-Con Mint KDE/ T3500's on Kubuntu/HP 3770 is Win 10/Win 10 Pro/Win 10 Pro/Win10
Benchmark Scores World Community Grid is my benchmark!!
Hmmm, Quake was fun....
 
Joined
Dec 8, 2008
Messages
1,334 (0.23/day)
It's kind of old news by now.
Carmack is a programmer and rocket scientist. Game design was mostly done by someone else.
 
Joined
Mar 24, 2011
Messages
2,356 (0.47/day)
Location
VT
Processor Intel i7-10700k
Motherboard Gigabyte Aurorus Ultra z490
Cooling Corsair H100i RGB
Memory 32GB (4x8GB) Corsair Vengeance DDR4-3200MHz
Video Card(s) MSI Gaming Trio X 3070 LHR
Display(s) ASUS MG278Q / AOC G2590FX
Case Corsair X4000 iCue
Audio Device(s) Onboard
Power Supply Corsair RM650x 650W Fully Modular
Software Windows 10
It's kind of old news by now.
Carmack is a programmer and rocket scientist. Game design was mostly done by someone else.

The design aspects of ID Software were almost always handled by others. Carmack was so impressive because he crafted Engines that tackled limitations of the times. He probably contributed to pushing 3D gaming forward several years by himself, which is nothing to scoff at. The fact that he also insisted on Open Sourcing their earlier engines is also amazing to me.
 
Joined
Sep 19, 2012
Messages
615 (0.14/day)
System Name [WIP]
Processor Intel Pentium G3420 [i7-4790K SOON(tm)]
Motherboard MSI Z87-GD65 Gaming
Cooling [Corsair H100i]
Memory G.Skill TridentX 2x8GB-2400-CL10 DDR3
Video Card(s) [MSI AMD Radeon R9-290 Gaming]
Storage Seagate 2TB Desktop SSHD / [Samsung 256GB 840 PRO]
Display(s) [BenQ XL2420Z]
Case [Corsair Obsidian 750D]
Power Supply Corsair RM750
Software Windows 8.1 x64 Pro / Linux Mint 15 / SteamOS
He's the Duke Nukem FOREVER of game developers... 'nuff said.
 
Joined
Sep 15, 2011
Messages
6,778 (1.40/day)
Processor Intel® Core™ i7-13700K
Motherboard Gigabyte Z790 Aorus Elite AX
Cooling Noctua NH-D15
Memory 32GB(2x16) DDR5@6600MHz G-Skill Trident Z5
Video Card(s) ZOTAC GAMING GeForce RTX 3080 AMP Holo
Storage 2TB SK Platinum P41 SSD + 4TB SanDisk Ultra SSD + 500GB Samsung 840 EVO SSD
Display(s) Acer Predator X34 3440x1440@100Hz G-Sync
Case NZXT PHANTOM410-BK
Audio Device(s) Creative X-Fi Titanium PCIe
Power Supply Corsair 850W
Mouse Logitech Hero G502 SE
Software Windows 11 Pro - 64bit
Benchmark Scores 30FPS in NFS:Rivals
Joined
Sep 19, 2012
Messages
615 (0.14/day)
System Name [WIP]
Processor Intel Pentium G3420 [i7-4790K SOON(tm)]
Motherboard MSI Z87-GD65 Gaming
Cooling [Corsair H100i]
Memory G.Skill TridentX 2x8GB-2400-CL10 DDR3
Video Card(s) [MSI AMD Radeon R9-290 Gaming]
Storage Seagate 2TB Desktop SSHD / [Samsung 256GB 840 PRO]
Display(s) [BenQ XL2420Z]
Case [Corsair Obsidian 750D]
Power Supply Corsair RM750
Software Windows 8.1 x64 Pro / Linux Mint 15 / SteamOS
Top