New Mini-Tower Build

[thebluebumblebee]

The SSD is one of the last things on the list. I had already settled on a Seagate hybrid.

Wait, I'm confused. You just went from "balls to the wall" to "good enough". The price for SSD's has fallen to the point where, IMHO, it does not make sense (or is that cents) to build a system without one. A 2 TB hybrid drive is roughly the same price as the SSD I pointed out.
BTW, where are you planning on making your purchases? Are you near a Microcenter?

 

[BigBoi]

Thank you for the references. I have a lot to learn - again. Things have changed. Here is the RAM in my Opteron rig. I only post this to show that this is what I know, and that it is far different from current systems.

I swear, I will never, ever, ever build a rig that is 'good enough for what I need.' That is nothing but a 6 foot ceiling for a guy who is 5' 10". You may as well not build. Just go buy a laptop. 'Good enough for what you need' guarantees that videos will be slide shows, programs will freeze, and in the not-too-distant-future you can click on a link and then go make coffee and toast, and when you come back, the link MIGHT have finished loading. I have lived with that far too much. A quality product must be overbuilt to perform sufficiently. That means 8gb of RAM when you need 4. 'Good enough for what you need' is only good enough for today. I build for tomorrow.

This!

Very well said

 

[TRWOV]

How does this look to you:

http://secure.newegg.com/WishList/PublicWishDetail.aspx?WishListNumber=29687667

The 780 is the current bang for the buck high end card IMO.

I'm also inclined to get an SSD for OS and a drive for files.

 

[thebluebumblebee]

If I read you correctly, this is what I think you might like, and a little of what I like.

The R9 290x...It's spendy but, even the Green Team is wondering if this might be something they want. Mantle...anyone?

How does this look to you:

http://secure.newegg.com/WishList/PublicWishDetail.aspx?WishListNumber=29687667

The 780 is the current bang for the buck high end card IMO.

I'm also inclined to get an SSD for OS and a drive for files.

Why does he need a high end GPU????????

 

[TRWOV]

ow, sorry, didn't see he was not going to game... wel, an R7 240 is it then.

list updated:

http://secure.newegg.com/WishList/PublicWishDetail.aspx?WishListNumber=29687667

 

[BiggieShady]

Why does he need a high end GPU????????

Because he is building for the world of tomorrow.

 

[Arjai]

Why does he need a high end GPU????????

When you build for tomorrow, one plans for all eventualities... (Evil Laugh)

 

[silentbogo]

I still have a similar rig i've built when i7 just came out. It totaled less than $1600 at the time with 23" LCD monitor, Logitech G15 keyboard and G9 mouse, $100 speakers and a WiFi Router!
As it goes for mini-ATX rigs, they offer plenty of space for all the basic hardware. In order to increase HDD performance, drop the 2TB drive and get two 1TB instead. Put them in RAID-0 and enjoy the ride.
From my personal experience I can tell that high-end super-expensive ROG motherboards from ASUS are overrated. You are paying double for a cool sticker and a couple of features that you'll never use. Better switch to something solid like GIGABYTE GA-Z87MX-D3H. Also according to your build you are trying to cram ATX motherboard into micro-ATX case.
Since you are using only one videocard, you can afford something better. At least get R7 260.
Regarding future upgrades i wold recommend to switch your 4x4GB RAM set to 2x8GB set. It gives the same amount of memory for the same amount of money, but leaves 2 slots available for the bright future.
If you are planning to use SSD just for storage and programs, 480GB is a bit much. But i'm no expert in these questions since the biggest SSD I had was 32GB on my EEE PC...
Also don't forget to include PSU and Wireless card(if needed).

 

[Oldgeek]

I love that case, Arjai! That might even be better than a Coolermaster Elite. I would go with the burner and the multi-card reader. Massive connectivity gets me all excited!

 

[Oldgeek]

It's been said here before, and I'll admit it, because I haven't built for 6 years, I don't know enough about current technology to know how much is 'good enough.' When I say 'good enough', I mean half-way between what I'm actually going to use in the next year or two, and extreme gaming. I figure 50% excess is good overkill. That means no 2011, but an 1150 with $300 RAM (or better), and an equal GPU. IMHO, Google Earth should never, ever have a 1/2 second lag. Neither should a Youtube video, nor a video played from a local drive.

Put it this way, this family computer has an Asus A8N-E. I built it for my mom, who only wanted to read email and buy airline tickets online. It has 4 DIMM slots, and is made for a dual-core CPU. Now I will add one gig of RAM and have two, and then buy a 4400 or 4800 and add two more. So here is the question: did I waste money on this MB? Most 'normal' people would have bought a single-core board with two DIMM slots. This is DDR 400. If I bought a lesser board, what would I do today?

This is what must be considered when choosing parts. A lot of guys will build for 2 or 3 years because they will sell or scrap their rig and build a new one. That's not my style. I want to build for 10 years.

 

[TRWOV]

So a $300 GPU and $300 worth of RAM?

http://secure.newegg.com/WishList/PublicWishDetail.aspx?WishListNumber=29687667


270X isn't a $300 GPU but you'd have to jump to $400 for the next performance bracket. Since you say video editing is important to consider I'd go for a Radeon due to their OpenCL performance.

32GB of RAM should be more than enough. I have just 16GB and havent hit the pagefile once in like forever.

480GB SSD for all your programs and a buttload of games. 2TB hard disc for your files.


If you don't need a GPU right now. You could skip it and get by with the CPU integrated graphics. and slash quite a bit of money The 4770K's IGP is quite capable for everyday stuff and even some gaming in low to mid settings.

 

[Oldgeek]

Also according to your build you are trying to cram ATX motherboard into micro-ATX case.

I think you are referring to my earlier, but mistaken, interest in the Sabertooth. I posted above that I realized the Sabertooth was an ATX, and then I referred to the H87M, which is mATX.

 

[silentbogo]

I was talkinig about Maximus IV Extreme in the newegg list, that was there before Maximus IV GENE. Either way it's a waste of money. $100 motherboard on the same chipset will provide the same performance with almost all the features.

 

[thebluebumblebee]

@Oldgeek, may I make a suggestion? Go back to the OP (Original Post) and strike through those items that you have changed your mind on. (don't delete them, as that makes the thread confusing) It would also be nice for you to make a list of what items you are considering.

 

[Oldgeek]

I was talkinig about Maximus IV Extreme in the newegg list, that was there before Maximus IV GENE. Either way it's a waste of money. $100 motherboard on the same chipset will provide the same performance with almost all the features.

There is a Maximus mATX, is there not? I'm sure I saw one. Anyway, it doesn't interest me. I'm pretty much settled on the H87M. I've compared all 1150 Asus mATX boards, and that seems to be the best choice. There are a lot of features I don't understand, but from what I do understand, it looks good.

USB 3.0 is important, OC capability is not. There are some features that the other similar board has that I like, but you can't have everything. The Maximus seems too gimicky to me.

You lost me on your comment about a $100 board. I judge by price too much. I have to stop doing that. When I look at the H87M price, something tells me it's mediocre and I should buy a more expensive one. I think I paid $230 for my A8N-SLI 32 Deluxe, but I shouldn't be going by that.

 

[silentbogo]

That's the most peculiar thing about motherboards - you never know what to expect. Sometimes really expensive board will flip it's hoofs on the first moth, and sometimes mediocre will outperform the "BEAST-TRUE-OC-SUPER-GAMING-MOBO".

The second happens very frequently, actually. I had Asus M2N SLI board once, that clocked my Athlon X2 5200+ @ 3.4GHz. Same with RAM: got some cheap Corsair DDR2-800 sticks, that outperformed (on that same board) everything I ever had. Clocked @~960MHz with 4-4-4-12 timings on stock voltage.

So, expensive is not necessarily better.

 

[thebluebumblebee]

@Oldgeek , if you are limiting yourself to Asus, you are doing yourself a disservice. Asus, Asrock, Gigabyte, MSI, and even, gasp, Biostar all make quality boards.
Since you are trying to build a "future proof" system, you may want to consider Thunderbolt as well.

 

[Arjai]

@Oldgeek Thunderbolt

+1 I think that might be the next best thing out there, of course, it's just a guess.

 

[Oldgeek]

My preference for Asus is just a sentimental brand loyalty. It is not based in hard facts. Like prefering AMD over Intel, or Coke over Pepsi. I know I should look at other options, but that means a lot more time spent on research, and knowing where to start is a crapshoot, unless I have tips, so I'm open to suggestions. Thanks.

 

[BiggieShady]

I know I should look at other options, but that means a lot more time spent on research, and knowing where to start is a crapshoot, unless I have tips, so I'm open to suggestions. Thanks.

The best you can do is to look at the statistics (with a grain of salt).
These are the last year motherboard models with highest failure rates:

- 5,22% ASRock 970 Pro3
- 5,03% ASRock Z77 Pro3
- 4,39% ASUS Maximus VI Hero
- 4,39% ASUS Rampage IV Extreme
- 3,86% ASRock H87M

Source: http://linustechtips.com/main/topic...ts-french-but-i-translated-nearly-everything/

 

[Oldgeek]

Wait, I'm confused. You just went from "balls to the wall" to "good enough". The price for SSD's has fallen to the point where, IMHO, it does not make sense (or is that cents) to build a system without one. A 2 TB hybrid drive is roughly the same price as the SSD I pointed out.
BTW, where are you planning on making your purchases? Are you near a Microcenter?

First of all, I had heard of SSD drives a year ago, and I discussed them with some people who told me a hybrid was better because it put the OS on the flash, and everything else on the platter; plus, the flash could fail easier, and then you lose everything. So a hybrid was better.

Secondly, I have been under the impression that EVERYONE was putting hybrids in their systems, like it was the latest and best thing to do. So how is a hybrid 'good enough'?

The one problem I have with a hybrid is that Windows says it needs about 20 gigs for 7 (I hate hate hate Windows 8), but a WD hybrid only has 8 gigs of flash. I'm thinking I want all of my OS on the flash.

And btw, I installed that blue shell stuff on my mom's laptop to make 8 look like 7. It's doesn't make 8 worthwhile.

I will most likely buy from any of the top online retailers: Newegg, NCIX, TigerDirect, Canada Computers, Canada Direct, etc. Whoever has the best price and shipping.

 

[TRWOV]

most folks go with an SSD + HDD setup: a 120 or 240GB SSD for Windows + your most used programs and a big HD drive for all your stuff.

The first SSDs were a coin toss and when they failed they did suddenly (not the clickity dead spiral that HDDs usually go trough) but not so much anymore. They've come a long way.


The flash memory of the hybrids doesn't backup files but the most read sectors. Saying that the OS resides in the flash memory is wrong although I suppose it's the easiest way to explain them in a non technical way.

Hybrids make sense in a constrained environment, like a laptop, where you usually can only install a single drive but a good thing about them is that when (not if) the flash memory dies you don't lose any files since they are still in the platters, the sectors on the flash memory are a copy.

 

[Arjai]

I like the idea of a couple SSD's, in RAID, and a 1 or 2 terabyte platter. SSD's will eventually go, but they have gotten worlds better in the last year alone, reliability wise.

In Raid because the chances of them both kicking the bucket, simultaneously? Astronomical, I am sure.

I have a hideously slow 5400 platter in my Ultrabook. The saving grace is the 24GB ssd cache that regularly kicks in to save my sanity! Eventually, if I ever land a raise, I am gonna get a Kingston SSD, 240 or 480 for this thing. Then....hmmm, I might just lose all patience for everything!!

Once I eventually un-storage my desktops...RAID city baby!! I swear, by the time I retire, I am gonna have 25 drives full of Humble Bundle and Steam games that I will finally have time to play!!

 

[Oldgeek]

I guess I should consider a RAID pattern for my build. I have ruined drives before, but always because I'm a pack rat. I keep everything because I might need it someday. People have actually asked me for things (articles, .pdfs, movies, etc.) a week after I deleted them. That really gets to me. I have routinely gotten drives up to 95% capacity, and higher. And then they fail. I haven't thrown any out. I think one day it will be cheap enough to get to the platters and get everything off. Maybe one day I'll know someone who is good at getting the platters out and putting them in another drive case to run it and transfer all the files.

After all, if these drives had incriminating evidence on them, the cops would do exactly that! So why would it be unreasonable for me to hope it could happen for my drives?