• Welcome to TechPowerUp Forums, Guest! Please check out our forum guidelines for info related to our community.

AMD Chases Crucial $279 Price Point with Radeon R9 280

Joined
May 13, 2008
Messages
762 (0.13/day)
System Name HTPC whhaaaat?
Processor 2600k @ 4500mhz
Motherboard Asus Maximus IV gene-z gen3
Cooling Noctua NH-C14
Memory Gskill Ripjaw 2x4gb
Video Card(s) EVGA 1080 FTW @ 2037/11016
Storage 2x512GB MX100/1x Agility 3 128gb ssds, Seagate 3TB HDD
Display(s) Vizio P 65'' 4k tv
Case Lian Li pc-c50b
Audio Device(s) Denon 3311
Power Supply Corsair 620HX
If TSMC doesn’t start verbalizing they will be providing excellent commercial viability on 20Nm by mid-summer, I might say Nvidia could launching another Maxwell on 28Nm to blow this $200-300 segment open. Nvidia wants some of the Litecoin money, and as Hash/watt is so great with Maxwell they’re at a tipping point. Wait around for worthwhileness of 20Nm, which really only brings real significance in the high-end enthusiast parts. Especially when neither (Nvidia/AMD) want a repeat of TSMC ramp-up like the 28Nm again. If Nvidia could deliver a Maxwell that bests a GTX760 on a ≤ 220 mm² die, 130W, and hash that provides what this R9 280 provides, I’d say Nvidia has to do it.

Except all indications seem to point to late q3 to q4, regardless of what tsmc says. Be that a year from the launch of Hawaii, six months or so from this onslaught of refresh parts, the fact amd publicly stated they were taping out chips this quarter, that nvidia said the rest of maxwell was coming later this year, and that the public cost per transistor maps (that has been floating around for years) all pretty much point to exactly that. To be literal to their respective histories on the ramp/price-per-xtor it would suggest late q3 for amd and late q4 for nvidia, but both may end up around the same time.

On top of that, what you're asking for doesn't make sense. Maxwell is clearly based around 6smm and 2mb cache blocks. 750ti is essentially half of what a 8800gt was in a lower market...1 less smm released earlier on a larger process to compensate for the power increase (20% in power from logic + whatever clockspeed increases 20nm gives with such more logic in the same power envelope; probably around 1200mhz to 750ti's ~1150 for a complete difference of around 20-25%) while simultaneously working as class-leading <75w part. What you're asking for is essentially a part that is less than 2x gm107, which really doesn't make sense on 28nm short of something really weird like a low-clocked 9smm part with 24 ROPs/3mb cache on a 192-bit bus, which I doubt we see.

On the flipside, what do you expect of a higher-up part on 28nm? If you're expecting die savings compared to gk104, I think you will be sadly mistaken. The arch again is catered towards the higher logic use of 20nm (ex: the extra cache) while using less power for similar to slightly higher core clocks (rather than scaling to higher clocks with more voltage and less logic like most processes before it) and conceivably smaller/slower mem controllers to keep power down, which will become more-so apparent as they move to larger designs. In short, a 12smm part (the only one that makes sense versus gk104) would be faster per clock than gk104, probably larger (depending on cache + more units vs mem controller size offset), but proportionally use less power because of design efficiency/slower memory speed/bus. While I suppose it's possible they could keep such a design under 225w on 28nm, and it would be good for us, it would probably be bad for nvidia's bottom line (a wholly new design for what amounts to a small improvement).

That all said, when it comes to this 280...the price is indeed a shame compared to old product prices, but also reflective of the situation: the yields are good and the cost savings are already passed on to 280x (at least at msrp). The price difference is pretty much directly proportional to real avg shader perf per clock and memory speed differences....meaning at least these will probably clock decently and similar to 280x (as opposed to 7950 which was power/clock limited) so it should be able to wiggle a decent spot between 760 and 770 if priced accordingly.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jul 18, 2007
Messages
2,693 (0.42/day)
System Name panda
Processor 6700k
Motherboard sabertooth s
Cooling raystorm block<black ice stealth 240 rad<ek dcc 18w 140 xres
Memory 32gb ripjaw v
Video Card(s) 290x gamer<ntzx g10<antec 920
Storage 950 pro 250gb boot 850 evo pr0n
Display(s) QX2710LED@110hz lg 27ud68p
Case 540 Air
Audio Device(s) nope
Power Supply 750w superflower
Mouse g502
Keyboard shine 3 with grey, black and red caps
Software win 10
Benchmark Scores http://hwbot.org/user/marsey99/
Pretty much this. How many enthusiasts give a damn about AMD chasing some obscure price point that they see as some kind of sweet spot? Most if not all are either only looking at high end hardware (Your 780, 780ti, 290 and 290X), or they already have 7970's, 7950's and 680's, which are essentially what all this crap is. Everyone else will buy the super low end cards for HTPC systems, or the best price/performance cards available within their budget range, which for some reason seems to be the 760 atm (this is just an observation, I see a lot of people recommending these as mid range cards for those that can't quite reach the high end area).

This is nothing that hasn't happened before, and most enthusiasts won't ever buy them anyway. There is no doubt better cards at better price points.

but it is the sweet spot, the low high end/high mid range gaming cards are the top sellers year after year for both companies. they are seen as the best value by many including the large oem, the average joe public on the street and to really make matters worse miners are going to love them. for a long time the 7950 has been the darling of the bit coin world. it is the reason why my card still sells for over £200 when they only cost £220 new 18 months ago.

if the r9 280 sells at anything like its £170 rrp then its ability to run most games at 1440p with ease alone and monstering them all with 2 in xfire for £350 will make it a hit with gamers. miners will love the kw:hash rate as they already do, only down side as they will drive up the price...i only hope the draw of maxwell will make them wait on any upgrades.
 
Joined
Apr 19, 2012
Messages
12,062 (2.61/day)
Location
Gypsyland, UK
System Name HP Omen 17
Processor i7 7700HQ
Memory 16GB 2400Mhz DDR4
Video Card(s) GTX 1060
Storage Samsung SM961 256GB + HGST 1TB
Display(s) 1080p IPS G-SYNC 75Hz
Audio Device(s) Bang & Olufsen
Power Supply 230W
Mouse Roccat Kone XTD+
Software Win 10 Pro
£170 rrp

plus VAT. American RRP doesn't account for UK Tax. This will just be a 7950 or close to it, being sold at the same price it released at (I bought my two 7950's for £210 each)
 
Joined
Sep 7, 2011
Messages
2,785 (0.57/day)
Location
New Zealand
System Name MoneySink
Processor 2600K @ 4.8
Motherboard P8Z77-V
Cooling AC NexXxos XT45 360, RayStorm, D5T+XSPC tank, Tygon R-3603, Bitspower
Memory 16GB Crucial Ballistix DDR3-1600C8
Video Card(s) GTX 780 SLI (EVGA SC ACX + Giga GHz Ed.)
Storage Kingston HyperX SSD (128) OS, WD RE4 (1TB), RE2 (1TB), Cav. Black (2 x 500GB), Red (4TB)
Display(s) Achieva Shimian QH270-IPSMS (2560x1440) S-IPS
Case NZXT Switch 810
Audio Device(s) onboard Realtek yawn edition
Power Supply Seasonic X-1050
Software Win8.1 Pro
Benchmark Scores 3.5 litres of Pale Ale in 18 minutes.
8800gt
8800gts
9600gt
9800gt
9800gtx
9800gtx+
gtx250
1 core, 3 generations of cards.
nothing new.
Indeed, although the 9600GT doesn't belong in that list since it featured the G94a GPU rather than the G92. You're probably thinking of the 9600GSO which was G92 powered (192-bit, 384 or 768MB) in one guise, although a rarer version used the G94 (128 or 256-bit, 512MB, 1GB). The 8800GS also belongs on your list - the 9600GSO G92 is a rebrand of the same card.
Also, it is the GTS 250 not GTX 250, and if you're including the die shrink (G92b) then that should also include the G92a/b versions of the GTS 240.
at least this has only been rebranded once.
Not quite
HD 7950
HD 7950 Boost
HD 8950 (OEM)
R9 280
Wait around for worthwhileness of 20Nm, which really only brings real significance in the high-end enthusiast parts.
Indications coming out of Taiwan are just the opposite. 20nm looks optimized for SoC/low power GPUs and hasn't shown any tangible performance benefits over 28nm when scaled to a larger die - at least when you take into account the increased wafer cost. It is my understanding that both Nvidia and AMD will stand pat with 28nm for the performance/enthusiast segment until the 16nm FF (FinFET) derivative of the 20nm process arrives. Note how quickly the ramp of 16nm FF (16nm FEOL+20nm BEOL) is due to follow 20nm.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Dec 19, 2011
Messages
212 (0.04/day)
Location
Stockton, CA
Thanks, but I think I'll wait for mid-range and high end Maxwell cards.
 
Joined
Nov 10, 2006
Messages
4,666 (0.71/day)
Location
Washington, US
System Name Rainbow
Processor Intel Core i7 8700k
Motherboard MSI MPG Z390M GAMING EDGE AC
Cooling Corsair H115i, 2x Noctua NF-A14 industrialPPC-3000 PWM
Memory G. Skill TridentZ RGB 4x8GB (F4-3600C16Q-32GTZR)
Video Card(s) ZOTAC GeForce RTX 3090 Trinity
Storage 2x Samsung 950 Pro 256GB | 2xHGST Deskstar 4TB 7.2K
Display(s) Samsung C27HG70
Case Xigmatek Aquila
Power Supply Seasonic 760W SS-760XP
Mouse Razer Deathadder 2013
Keyboard Corsair Vengeance K95
Software Windows 10 Pro
Benchmark Scores 4 trillion points in GmailMark, over 144 FPS 2K Facebook Scrolling (Extreme Quality preset)
 
Joined
Apr 19, 2011
Messages
2,198 (0.44/day)
Location
So. Cal.
Except all indications seem to point to late q3 to q4, regardless of what tsmc says... should be able to wiggle a decent spot between 760 and 770 if priced accordingly.
Thanks for this always good to read more differing information.
I just think that AMD and Nvidia are not going for another leap-of-faith with risk production. And, it’s just too early to read anything from the TSMC tea leaves at this point. Not exactly understanding that another 28mm Maxwell couldn’t be a good move, but it would hold Nvidia for a year and appears if miners became fond of it could make some good ROI.
 
Joined
Apr 15, 2009
Messages
1,035 (0.18/day)
Processor Ryzen 9 5900X
Motherboard Gigabyte X570 Aorus Master
Cooling ARCTIC Liquid Freezer III 360 A-RGB
Memory 32 GB Ballistix Elite DDR4-3600 CL16
Video Card(s) XFX 6800 XT Speedster Merc 319 Black
Storage Sabrent Rocket NVMe 4.0 1TB
Display(s) LG 27GL850B x 2 / ASUS MG278Q
Case be quiet! Silent Base 802
Audio Device(s) Sound Blaster AE-7 / Sennheiser HD 660S
Power Supply Seasonic Vertex PX-1200
Software Windows 11 Pro 64
Downgraded gap filler for old, re-badged tech.
*Yawn*
 
Joined
Jun 13, 2012
Messages
1,409 (0.31/day)
Processor i7-13700k
Motherboard Asus Tuf Gaming z790-plus
Cooling Coolermaster Hyper 212 RGB
Memory Corsair Vengeance RGB 32GB DDR5 7000mhz
Video Card(s) Asus Dual Geforce RTX 4070 Super ( 2800mhz @ 1.0volt, ~60mhz overlock -.1volts)
Storage 1x Samsung 980 Pro PCIe4 NVme, 2x Samsung 1tb 850evo SSD, 3x WD drives, 2 seagate
Display(s) Acer Predator XB273u 27inch IPS G-Sync 165hz
Audio Device(s) Logitech Z906 5.1
Power Supply Corsair RMx Series RM850x (OCZ Z series PSU retired after 13 years of service)
Mouse Logitech G502 hero
Keyboard Logitech G710+
8800gt
8800gts
9600gt
9800gt
9800gtx
9800gtx+
gtx250

1 core, 3 generations of cards.

nothing new.

at least this has only been rebranded once.

stick around long enough and you will see it happen again too.


you need to check your facts, 8800GTS was g80 90nm gpu, 9600gt was g94a/g94b 65/55nm part. and well gtx250 was considered mid/low range part which was g94b which is kinda normal.


Downgraded gap filler for old, re-badged tech.
*Yawn*

Yea Nvidia has put out new gpu, if and when they do larger gpu to replace high end with maxwell and they can keep power down to like 200 watts or lower, would be huge.
 
Joined
Apr 19, 2011
Messages
2,198 (0.44/day)
Location
So. Cal.
If this was a normal gaming market AMD would be pricing below MSRP and they wouldn’t need to be considering moving what little binned (geldings) like this and the R7 265 to feed the demand. None of these SKU’s should be here right now, but the market is burning through everything and AIB are clamoring to get anything.
 
Joined
Aug 26, 2013
Messages
954 (0.23/day)
Location
Cumberland Plateau
System Name EVGA-FX | Lenny (Lenovo Y480)
Processor AMD FX-8320 @ 4.5GHz 1.416v | i7 3610qm
Motherboard Asus M5A99FX Pro R2.0
Cooling Phanteks PH-TC14PE
Memory 2x4GB Corsair Vengeance @ 1600 | 8gb DDR3 @ 1600
Video Card(s) EVGA GTX780 Classified @ 1228MHz 1.615v | GT640m LE
Storage Crucial M500 480GB, WD Caviar Blue 500GB, WD Scorpio Blue 750GB | Samsung 250GB 840
Display(s) Qnix QX2710 1440p | 42" Vizio 3D LCD TV 1080p
Case CoolerMaster HAF XB Evo
Power Supply Seasonic G-650
Software Windows 6.3.9600
Indeed, although the 9600GT doesn't belong in that list since it featured the G94a GPU rather than the G92. You're probably thinking of the 9600GSO which was G92 powered (192-bit, 384 or 768MB) in one guise, although a rarer version used the G94 (128 or 256-bit, 512MB, 1GB). The 8800GS also belongs on your list - the 9600GSO G92 is a rebrand of the same card.
Also, it is the GTS 250 not GTX 250, and if you're including the die shrink (G92b) then that should also include the G92a/b versions of the GTS 240.

Not quite
HD 7950
HD 7950 Boost
HD 8950 (OEM)
R9 280

Indications coming out of Taiwan are just the opposite. 20nm looks optimized for SoC/low power GPUs and hasn't shown any tangible performance benefits over 28nm when scaled to a larger die - at least when you take into account the increased wafer cost. It is my understanding that both Nvidia and AMD will stand pat with 28nm for the performance/enthusiast segment until the 16nm FF (FinFET) derivative of the 20nm process arrives. Note how quickly the ramp of 16nm FF (16nm FEOL+20nm BEOL) is due to follow 20nm.

Figures he would've been wrong all along.

On point, "AMD chases crucial $279 price point with Radeon R9 280, retailers break their legs."
 
Last edited:
Joined
Sep 7, 2011
Messages
2,785 (0.57/day)
Location
New Zealand
System Name MoneySink
Processor 2600K @ 4.8
Motherboard P8Z77-V
Cooling AC NexXxos XT45 360, RayStorm, D5T+XSPC tank, Tygon R-3603, Bitspower
Memory 16GB Crucial Ballistix DDR3-1600C8
Video Card(s) GTX 780 SLI (EVGA SC ACX + Giga GHz Ed.)
Storage Kingston HyperX SSD (128) OS, WD RE4 (1TB), RE2 (1TB), Cav. Black (2 x 500GB), Red (4TB)
Display(s) Achieva Shimian QH270-IPSMS (2560x1440) S-IPS
Case NZXT Switch 810
Audio Device(s) onboard Realtek yawn edition
Power Supply Seasonic X-1050
Software Win8.1 Pro
Benchmark Scores 3.5 litres of Pale Ale in 18 minutes.
you need to check your facts, 8800GTS was g80 90nm gpu,
That was the original 8800GTS 640MB/320MB, a relatively expensive and short lived G80 salvage part. The G92 8800GTS should be much more well known, since it essentially made the 8800GTX and Ultra obsolete overnight.
and well gtx250 was considered mid/low range part which was g94b which is kinda normal.
There is no such card. The GTS 250 was essentially a rebranded 9800 GTX+ (as was the OEM GTS 150 and GTS 240)
 
Joined
Jan 10, 2014
Messages
161 (0.04/day)
System Name First Gaming PC
Processor AMD APU Kaveri A10-7850k
Motherboard MSI A88XM-E45
Cooling Stock Cooler
Memory Kingston HyperX 8 GB 1866MHz
Video Card(s) Intergrated with CPU
Storage Kingston Hyperx 3k 120 GB(OS) + 1 TB WD Blue
Display(s) LG 20EN33V 1920 x 1080
Case Infinity Rave
Audio Device(s) Intergrated Sound Card
Power Supply Enermax NAXN 500w
Software Windows 8.1 64-bit
Another REBRANED with nice sticker
 
Joined
Sep 25, 2007
Messages
5,966 (0.95/day)
Location
New York
Processor AMD Ryzen 9 5950x, Ryzen 9 5980HX
Motherboard MSI X570 Tomahawk
Cooling Be Quiet Dark Rock Pro 4(With Noctua Fans)
Memory 32Gb Crucial 3600 Ballistix
Video Card(s) Gigabyte RTX 3080, Asus 6800M
Storage Adata SX8200 1TB NVME/WD Black 1TB NVME
Display(s) Dell 27 Inch 165Hz
Case Phanteks P500A
Audio Device(s) IFI Zen Dac/JDS Labs Atom+/SMSL Amp+Rivers Audio
Power Supply Corsair RM850x
Mouse Logitech G502 SE Hero
Keyboard Corsair K70 RGB Mk.2
VR HMD Samsung Odyssey Plus
Software Windows 10
8800GT-> 9800GT(early ones)
9800GTX+ -> GTS250

8800GTS -> 9800GTX(not really, 9800GTX had an enhanced PCB and newer core)
9600GT was never rebranded(not including oem) and was not a G92 either
9800GT(die strunk) -> GTS240(who cares about oem-_-)

I don't know why this comes up they both do it, let it go
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jul 18, 2007
Messages
2,693 (0.42/day)
System Name panda
Processor 6700k
Motherboard sabertooth s
Cooling raystorm block<black ice stealth 240 rad<ek dcc 18w 140 xres
Memory 32gb ripjaw v
Video Card(s) 290x gamer<ntzx g10<antec 920
Storage 950 pro 250gb boot 850 evo pr0n
Display(s) QX2710LED@110hz lg 27ud68p
Case 540 Air
Audio Device(s) nope
Power Supply 750w superflower
Mouse g502
Keyboard shine 3 with grey, black and red caps
Software win 10
Benchmark Scores http://hwbot.org/user/marsey99/
kain that is the point i was trying to make dude, they both do it when they have a lead in performance.

nice 1 smoke, it was the gso which i was thinking of. one of the best sleeper cards they did at the time as it overclocked like stink and had plenty of mem bandwidth for high res gaming. i was trying to keep away from oem cards like the hd8000 and gts300s which also had another sticker on the same hardware too. mainly as they never hit the mass markets but they are also a great indicator of how long the market had stagnated then too.

the g92b started with the 98gtx+ giving them all the ability to run faster clocks but not by much. a good overclocking g92 would hit the same speeds as a b.
 
Joined
Dec 23, 2012
Messages
1,715 (0.39/day)
Location
Somewhere Over There!
System Name Gen2
Processor Ryzen R9 5950X
Motherboard Asus ROG Crosshair Viii Hero Wifi
Cooling Lian Li 360 Galahad
Memory G.Skill Trident Z RGB 64gb @ 3600 Mhz CL14-13-13-24 1T @ 1.45V
Video Card(s) Sapphire RX 6900 XT Nitro+
Storage Seagate 520 1TB + Samsung 970 Evo Plus 1TB + lots of HDD's
Display(s) Samsung Odyssey G7
Case Lian Li PC-O11D XL White
Audio Device(s) Onboard
Power Supply Super Flower Leadex SE Platinum 1000W
Mouse Xenics Titan GX Air Wireless
Keyboard Kemove Snowfox 61
Software Main: Gentoo+Arch + Windows 11
Benchmark Scores Have tried but can't beat the leaders :)
If you live in the US, expect to pay at least $50 over MSRP.

korea prices are like $100 over MSRP. All the time :slap: that is always the trend and it will stay like that. no matter green or red cards.
 
Top