Nvidia GTX 970 problems: This isn't acceptable.

[xfia]

I just wanted to sorry to eclipse.. hope we can bounce around a little conversation in the future without being sour

 

[largon]

I'm prolly too lazy to bother to return my card but it looks like I did not get what was advertised and what I paid for:

- 64ROPs
===> 56ROPs

- 4GB VRAM, 256bit
===> 3.5GB L1 VRAM, 224bit + ½GB L2 VRAM, 32bit

The matter of the number of ROPs is not concrete. Knowing the truth doesn't reduce performance or affect user experience.
Butts! The product was advertised as having 64ROPs when it actually doesn't - and that makes nVIDIA look like a fool in my eyes.
The matter of VRAM is more serious as this hack-job-of-a-design-feature has risk of deteriorating user experience if VRAM usage goes >3.5GB.

 

[MxPhenom 216]

I'm prolly too lazy to bother to return my card but it looks like I did not get what was advertised and what I paid for:

- 64ROPs
===> 56ROPs

- 4GB VRAM, 256bit
===> 3.5GB L1 VRAM, 224bit + ½GB L2 VRAM, 32bit

The matter of the number of ROPs is not concrete. Knowing the truth doesn't reduce performance or affect user experience.
Butts! The product was advertised as having 64ROPs when it actually doesn't - and that makes nVIDIA look like a fool in my eyes.
The matter of VRAM is more serious as this hack-job-of-a-design-feature has risk of deteriorating user experience if VRAM usage goes >3.5GB.

What people keep mixing up, is the fact it does have all 64 ROPs enabled, but because of the couple SMX clusters that have been disabled for the GPU the last 8 are idle and don't actually do anything. They are not disabled, or anything like that so the card DOES have them.

 

[largon]

What people keep mixing up, is the fact it does have all 64 ROPs enabled, but because of the couple SMX clusters that have been disabled for the GPU the last 8 are idle and don't actually do anything. They are not disabled, or anything like that so the card DOES have them.

Incorrect - and it would be irrelevant even if it were true.
The ROPs are disabled.

GTX 970 only has 56 of 64 ROPs and 1.75MB of 2MB of L2 cache enabled [...] starting with Maxwell, NVIDIA has gained the ability to disable the individual ROP/L2 units within a partition, allowing one of the two ROP/L2 units to be disabled.
-Anandtech

 

[MxPhenom 216]

Incorrect - and it would be irrelevant even if it were true.
The ROPs are disabled.

I read a different article saying they are not disable, just idle.

 

[HTC]

The matter of the number of ROPs is not concrete. Knowing the truth doesn't reduce performance or affect user experience.
Butts! The product was advertised as having 64ROPs when it actually doesn't - and that makes nVIDIA look like a fool in my eyes.
The matter of VRAM is more serious as this hack-job-of-a-design-feature has risk of deteriorating user experience if VRAM usage goes >3.5GB.

If your aim with this card is not best graphics @ resolutions you monitor supports, then this card will serve you for quite a while before you experience it's VRAM limitations, otherwise you should be experiencing it already in a very few titles, from what i've read.

 

[Easy Rhino]

if i owned this 970 i would probably bitch just to see what free stuff i could get out of it. i don't care if the card utilizes that last bit of ram slightly differently creating effectively no difference in performance compared with other cards. but since i am a pc gamer my job is to act entitled and complain all the time and try and raise a raucous and look and sound important. if that gets me a new card or a discount on something then so be it. that is how i roll.

 

[Saidrex]

if i owned this 970 i would probably bitch just to see what free stuff i could get out of it. i don't care if the card utilizes that last bit of ram slightly differently creating effectively no difference in performance compared with other cards. but since i am a pc gamer my job is to act entitled and complain all the time and try and raise a raucous and look and sound important. if that gets me a new card or a discount on something then so be it. that is how i roll.

yeah, better keep quite and get screwed by companies even more. Grow some backbone. Today it is 500MB, tomorrow completely different card comparing to what was advertised. Of course I'm not saying that crying on forums all the time will change anything. But demanding full refund - sure.

 

[MxPhenom 216]

if i owned this 970 i would probably bitch just to see what free stuff i could get out of it. i don't care if the card utilizes that last bit of ram slightly differently creating effectively no difference in performance compared with other cards. but since i am a pc gamer my job is to act entitled and complain all the time and try and raise a raucous and look and sound important. if that gets me a new card or a discount on something then so be it. that is how i roll.

Probably one of the best posts you have ever made on this forum EVER.

 

[xorbe]

I read a different article saying they are not disable, just idle.

They are idle because they are effectively disabled, with no way to enable for usage. It's just word weaseling. Do you really support advertising of inaccessible features?

 

[Easy Rhino]

They are idle because they are effectively disabled, with no way to enable for usage. It's just word weaseling. Do you really support advertising of inaccessible features?

Can you show me this article that says you cannot access the amount of RAM advertised? Extra points if it includes technical specs and not FUD.

 

[Vayra86]

They were talking about the ROPS, and the additional ROP count would not scale properly with the SM units that are activated. So the ROPs are probably on there, but whether they are 'active' or 'idle' won't matter because your throughput is already capped at 52 ROPs, while there are 56 in the 970.

So losing those ROPs on the spec sheet won't influence the performance of the card in any way. Having the last 0.5Gb at 29Gbps bandwidth however, does. The lower amount of L2 cache may also be noticeable, but it is impossible to say which of the two causes stutter. You can be certain however that the cause is not due to a lower ROP count.

 

[the54thvoid]

Can you show me this article that says you cannot access the amount of RAM advertised? Extra points if it includes technical specs and not FUD.

This does quite well:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/8935/...cting-the-specs-exploring-memory-allocation/4

They were talking about the ROPS, and the additional ROP count would not scale properly with the SM units that are activated. So the ROPs are probably on there, but whether they are 'active' or 'idle' won't matter because your throughput is already capped at 52 ROPs, while there are 56 in the 970.

So losing those ROPs on the spec sheet won't influence the performance of the card in any way. Having the last 0.5Gb at 29Gbps bandwidth however, does. The lower amount of L2 cache may also be noticeable, but it is impossible to say which of the two causes stutter. You can be certain however that the cause is not due to a lower ROP count.

Yup, as the Anandtech article says, it's already bottle-necked at 52 ROPs. They're also having a hard time finding a real life situation using the memory allocation between 3.5&4Gb that isn't already tanking the performance due to the inherent limitations of the card.

 

[Easy Rhino]

This does quite well:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/8935/...cting-the-specs-exploring-memory-allocation/4



Yup, as the Anandtech article says, it's already bottle-necked at 52 ROPs. They're also having a hard time finding a real life situation using the memory allocation between 3.5&4Gb that isn't already tanking the performance due to the inherent limitations of the card.

The article clearly states that all 4 gigs of RAM are available to the card...

 

[Vario]

if i owned this 970 i would probably bitch just to see what free stuff i could get out of it. i don't care if the card utilizes that last bit of ram slightly differently creating effectively no difference in performance compared with other cards. but since i am a pc gamer my job is to act entitled and complain all the time and try and raise a raucous and look and sound important. if that gets me a new card or a discount on something then so be it. that is how i roll.

Agreed. If it performs well what difference does it make. I bet people would have bought it even if it was marketed as a 970 3.5GB and been perfectly happy with it. Its cheaper than a 980 and performs better than a 960 and the 770, therefore it is a 970.

 

[RealNeil]

After reading all of the original reviews about the GTX-970s, I was impressed. Most people that I talked to about them only had one complaint, if at all. (coil whine)

A few days ago I bought an MSI R9-290X OC Gamer GPU. I chose it due to the low price and the fact that it (really) has 4GB of RAM. I plan to get another one for Crossfire in three weeks. (4K gaming)
If it's anything like my three R9-280X OC cards, I'll like it.

I still want to get a pair of GTX-970s this year.

 

[FreedomEclipse]

I plan to get another one for Crossfire in three weeks. (4K gaming)
If it's anything like my three R9-280X OC cards, I'll like it.

Better plan to get a more beefy power supply (we're talkin at least 1000W+) and also plan to get some AIO WC with retention clips to turn it into a hybrid GPU cooler cuz 290's OC better when watercooled and possibly plan for a new case too just incase (pardon the pun) you cant fit 3 AIO 120mm coolers in it - I see you already have a Corsair H80i, Also plan to keep more money in reserve to pay for your electric bill.

- Turn off any room heaters cuz you wont need one anymore with a pair of these inside your case.

I still want to get a pair of GTX-970s this year.

Great! send your 290X back for a refund and pick up two 970s and save on buying a new Power supply, 2x new AIO coolers+ Retention clips. new case & Electricity bill,

 

[RealNeil]

Better plan to get a more beefy power supply (we're talkin at least 1000W+) and also plan to get some AIO WC with retention clips to turn it into a hybrid GPU cooler cuz 290's OC better when watercooled and possibly plan for a new case too just incase (pardon the pun) you cant fit 3 AIO 120mm coolers in it - I see you already have a Corsair H80i, Also plan to keep more money in reserve to pay for your electric bill.

- Turn off any room heaters cuz you wont need one anymore with a pair of these inside your case.




Great! send your 290X back for a refund and pick up two 970s and save on buying a new Power supply, 2x new AIO coolers+ Retention clips. new case & Electricity bill,

This gear is for a new build.
Power supply is 1300W.
Case is a Blackhawk Ultra. Almost big enough to park a Buick inside.
Both 290s will be air cooled (dual fan coolers) in the Blackhawk Ultra. It has outstanding airflow. The CPU is cooled with a 240mm AIO.
As for electric, I have that covered. It will be my third system.

The 970s are for the system with the GTX-570s in it now.

 

[RejZoR]

But how, people say you don't need a 800W PSU for GTX 970. You can have a crap ass 350W unit and it'll be awesome. Dafaq...

 

[FreedomEclipse]

Both 290s will be air cooled (dual fan coolers) in the Blackhawk Ultra. It has outstanding airflow. .

To get the 'best' out of the 290s, they need to be watercooled

But how, people say you don't need a 800W PSU for GTX 970. You can have a crap ass 350W unit and it'll be awesome. Dafaq...

a system like mine with 970 SLi draws under 650w

 

[RealNeil]

They'll be air cooled. If that doesn't work, I'll consider putting them under water.

 

[RejZoR]

To get the 'best' out of the 290s, they need to be watercooled



a system like mine with 970 SLi draws under 650w

Well, I have an older overclocked quadcore which is very power thirsty, overclocke HD7950 which is also very power thirsty and I've never seen it go past 450W usage unless if I was hammering it with compute apps that place 100% load on all CPU cores and 100% on the GPU. Which never ever happens under gaming conditions.

 

[FreedomEclipse]

Well, I have an older overclocked quadcore which is very power thirsty, overclocke HD7950 which is also very power thirsty and I've never seen it go past 450W usage unless if I was hammering it with compute apps that place 100% load on all CPU cores and 100% on the GPU. Which never ever happens under gaming conditions.

you cant compare 970sli with a single 7950 for power usage. Maybe with CPU's we have something slightly in common as they are both rated at 130w TDP but i run close to 1.4v through mine to get 4.6Ghz. an OCd 7950 will hit around 280-300w so it all depends.

 

[RejZoR]

I run mine at 1,35V and is more power hungry as it is afaik.

Either way, my only concern ever is noise. I've tuned my HD7950 to be really silent and Battlefield 4 was the only game to ever spin it beyond inaudible levels. This game really stressed it out apparently, even though it has been a super smooth experience using Ultra preset at 1080p. Using V-Sync doesn't help much since I have a 144Hz monitor which means the framerate can be really high, resulting in hardly any difference with or without V-Sync for the GPU load. With 60Hz, I guess the load would be lower...

 

[cokker]

I just swapped my MSI 970 Gaming for a MSI 290x Gaming, performance wise I can't notice any difference, heat is only about 5 to 10c hotter and the build quality is a massive improvement.

I had to use a few zip-ties to hook up the rear of my 970 as it sagged very badly.